This whole argument, and several prior, seem to stem from a difference of opinion on the definition of the term "exploit." And, it appears that I have a different definition than most. Perhaps we can put this whole semantic debate behind us, if I offer some clarification.
In my opinion, as a Dev, somebody that is Exploiting is deserving of punishment. By extension, an action should be called an Exploit only if it is an action that the player should be held accountable for, and face punitive measures for.
If a player is utilizing a coding error, potentially without their knowledge, they should not be held accountable for it, in my opinion. And therefore, by my personal definition, that action is not Exploiting. To call it Exploiting would imply that disciplinary actions would be warranted.
My opinion on this may be quite bias, however.
For example, it was my responsibility that the Jem'Hadar Shield was benefiting from Brace-for-Impact Doffs in error at the time they rolled out to the public. It would have been improper - unfair, illogical - to punish players for utilizing that combination of items/powers, when it was MY responsibility that they were malfunctioning. Therefore, doing so was not what I would define as an Exploit.
First... thank you for the fix.
To be honest your view of exploit is a little off. Code errors happen, that doesn't mean people are in the right for continuing to use something, that is broken. Players do not have Dev ESP... we can't decide if a broken piece of code was something you woopsied on or something you had no idea would function that way. We don't get a pass because we don't know what you where thinking when the code was "broken".
YES it is your right... and frankly your responsibility. As a dev to enforce your TOS... if Cryptic as a whole doesn't have the stomach for that... frankly you guys need to man up.
I know you have played other games that are out there... how many of them do you think would go so far in NOT enforcing there TOS as to say have fun with this till we fix it (I understand the comment was light hearted)... even if it is destroying game play. (I am not just talking about PVP here... man I can't tell you how many stfs I was in the last week or so that ended really really quickly cause some goof was running disperal 3 omega 3 Rapid 3... ect. I remember doing one infected where the gate blew up like 20sec after the second transformer went down. lol)
Honesty this "Bug" Could be activated innocently enough... which is WHY Cryptic as a Developer needs to learn how to send people warnings. As well as tow the company line... Which I believe is likely FOLLOW THE TOS. I have never played any game where I know of people being baned for being reported for using an exploit... they all get banned after getting WARNED about using an exploit. Your warnings could have explained how to remove skills from there tool bar... no one was forcing those people to push the extra buttons... but no one was saying they ought not to either.
Anyway again thanks for the fix... I just hope in the future you guys will be a little more by the book when this stuff happens.
Thing is its hard to ban people for using something that shouldn't be on the live server in the first place. I really blame the people that release bugs like voldemort and items like the jem shields to live without proper testing.
Think of it like this p2wsucks, if you where a newbie logged into the game after downloading it from steam and you where using game braking buggs in sto and got banned, how cool would that be?
If it was avoidable and I was warned I'd expect it. In fact I can't think of an exploited bug I've heard of that wasn't avoidable in this game.
This is about people knowingly cheat and there being no pushiment to discourage the cheating. Seriously, the example he gave actually DC'd people and prevented them playing the game ...
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I do get it now.. I drove to taco bell and on the way, I thought about it more.
All exploits are errors either in the conceptualization of the code or the code itself.
What you are trying to say is that you will act when you can prove "intent', and when you are unable to prove intent, you do not act and fix the code.
What I say to that is allow us to report the exploiters. Then when you can prove that they did exploit, you send them a warning. The 2nd time they have to be warned about the same thing, then you can ban them. You can ban them at that point because you have established a paper trail of wrong doing.
In this case, you were able to get the fix out the door rather quickly, but harm was still done to all parties. You should still never encourage the use of a coding error and give it free reign like you did. You should establish a clear procedure of what will happen if one gets caught until a fix is deployed and state that they should not use the "coding error".
I know that I pay you guys well for a good experience on this game, and I have not enjoyed myself for the past week with this voldemort bug.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Personally speaking, I'm going to miss Grav Well 3 on my Fleet Defiant
which brings up another point.. if a power is in use on a ship that wouldn't normally have access to that power, you know the player made a conscious choice to use the power at that point by dragging it to their power tray, thereby establishing intent.
DEM3 on a defiant.. grav well, etc.. yes.. the player does in fact know better as you just eluded to.
A simple scan of the database would prove that intent if a power that a ship should never have active is actually used.. that stuff is even in the logs. I had a log parser going in every match to see who was exploiting, and if I can determine it based on that little amount of information, then so can cryptic who has even more information than I do to examine.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
This whole argument, and several prior, seem to stem from a difference of opinion on the definition of the term "exploit." And, it appears that I have a different definition than most. Perhaps we can put this whole semantic debate behind us, if I offer some clarification.
In my opinion, as a Dev, somebody that is Exploiting is deserving of punishment. By extension, an action should be called an Exploit only if it is an action that the player should be held accountable for, and face punitive measures for.
If a player is utilizing a coding error, potentially without their knowledge, they should not be held accountable for it, in my opinion. And therefore, by my personal definition, that action is not Exploiting. To call it Exploiting would imply that disciplinary actions would be warranted.
My opinion on this may be quite bias, however.
For example, it was my responsibility that the Jem'Hadar Shield was benefiting from Brace-for-Impact Doffs in error at the time they rolled out to the public. It would have been improper - unfair, illogical - to punish players for utilizing that combination of items/powers, when it was MY responsibility that they were malfunctioning. Therefore, doing so was not what I would define as an Exploit.
Lol...by your definition nothing is an exploit then unless someone actually goes in and hacks your programming.
Exactly how was this new version of voldemort different than the last one according to your definition? You guys called it an exploit last time and banned people for even talking about it. Even if this one was much easier to produce, it was still made possible by an error in your coding that allowed it.
Is it safe to assume this is also why you don't punish people that logout in combat and bot/farm? Since your programming allows it, theyre not responsible for their actions?
Even I don't think there should be mass bannings. It would just be nice if there could be quicker turn around on major game play effecting "code" issues. Wouldn't hurt either, if Developers could maybe refrain from encouraging players to enjoy the latest bad coding.
Feels like the game would be better off if the Devs appeared half as serious about the quality of the product as the players. Then again, maybe the players would be better off if they accepted that this is an unrealistic expectation.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
which brings up another point.. if a power is in use on a ship that wouldn't normally have access to that power, you know the player made a conscious choice to use the power at that point by dragging it to their power tray, thereby establishing intent.
DEM3 on a defiant.. grav well, etc.. yes.. the player does in fact know better as you just eluded to.
A simple scan of the database would prove that intent if a power that a ship should never have active is actually used.. that stuff is even in the logs. *I had a log parser going in every match to see who was exploiting, and if I can determine it based on that little amount of information, then so can cryptic who has even more information than I do to examine.
Wow, someone is a little angry. And yes, I figured out how to use it, but I don't PvP, only PvE. Only followed this thread because I found it on Dev tracker. It was fun, the devs gave their blessings to play with it while we had it so of course I was going to use it. How often do you get the Devs blessings to use an exploit on a live server.
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Wow, someone is a little angry. And yes, I figured out how to use it, but I don't PvP, only PvE. Only followed this thread because I found it on Dev tracker. It was fun, the devs gave their blessings to play with it while we had it so of course I was going to use it. How often do you get the Devs blessings to use an exploit on a live server.
Grats on figuring out how to cheat ...
How fun do you think it'd be if the Jem shield broke again and you were lagged out b/c someone chose to use it?
I get messing around for lolz and all, but they denied and still deny it was an exploit.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Srsly, this is a game! A game. Enjoy some sun, get some fresh air. You don't see them spamming my name around here that I'm exploiting left and right. It was fun having a power on a ship it wasn't intended for, they said since there were a bunch of people using it without knowing it was an exploit so there was nothing they could do. Rewards for STF were still nerfed, I don't PvP, its a game.
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Srsly, this is a game! A game. Enjoy some sun, get some fresh air. You don't see them spamming my name around here that I'm exploiting left and right. It was fun having a power on a ship it wasn't intended for, they said since there were a bunch of people using it without knowing it was an exploit so there was nothing they could do. Rewards for STF were still nerfed, I don't PvP, its a game.
Yeah, they lied when they said people were using it w/o knowing it. You need to brain dead to know you shouldn't have multiple commander boff abilities and it takes the action of using the boff ability on the players part. Don't let them fool you, they're too cheap to have enforce their enforcement policy. That is the only reason to allow the TRIBBLE that they have allowed and condone it.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Srsly, this is a game! A game. Enjoy some sun, get some fresh air. You don't see them spamming my name around here that I'm exploiting left and right. It was fun having a power on a ship it wasn't intended for, they said since there were a bunch of people using it without knowing it was an exploit so there was nothing they could do. Rewards for STF were still nerfed, I don't PvP, its a game.
NPCs don't mind being cheated. As long as it isn't used against players, or in competitive PvE (fleet actions, for example), I can't really hate on the guy.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
NPCs don't mind being cheated. As long as it isn't used against players, or in competitive PvE (fleet actions, for example), I can't really hate on the guy.
While I don't care about the Dilithium and other markets myself, that is also something people compete over and someone who exploits in PvE even would have an unfair advantage there. Besides, it's still the idea of people are cheating and Cryptic won't acknowledge that its is, much less enforce it.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I always thought of a bug as a coding error. Some phenomenae that was never intended. It could be something benign as a graphical glitch. Something annoying as a broken mission that cannot be completed. It can also be gamebreaking and potentially reproduceable under certain conditions, bypassing the perameters of the normal mechanics that might give a player an unfair advantage.
An exploit, imo, is when something in the game that is working as intended but has an unintentional adverse effect when stacked or combined with other abilities and items, resulting in an unforseen performance well above and beyond than they should, giving the player a knowingly unfair advantage with no drawbacks or counters.
although, if i may point out... if proper testing was considered before this was pushed live it would have been fixed on the "test server". i mean it is called the test server for a reason right?
right?
....
i look forward to the next voldemort bug with season 8.
I always thought of a bug as a coding error. Some phenomenae that was never intended. It could be something benign as a graphical glitch. Something annoying as a broken mission that cannot be completed. It can also be gamebreaking and potentially reproduceable under certain conditions, bypassing the perameters of the normal mechanics that might give a player an unfair advantage.
An exploit, imo, is when something in the game that is working as intended but has an unintentional adverse effect when stacked or combined with other abilities and items, resulting in an unforseen performance well above and beyond than they should, giving the player a knowingly unfair advantage with no drawbacks or counters.
So, by your definition, using tric mines with DPB is an exploit? The argument that tric mines have a counter does not apply since your definition is "no drawbacks or counters" to the COMBO of using dispersal pattern and tric's.
Edit: I suppose you could say that snb or snb doff proc could strip the DPB buff off before you lay out the mines, but that's a pretty weak argument. It's no better of an argument than you could use snb against someone who has multiple commander Boff slots, therefore voldie can be countered
By your definition, if a player taking advantage of a bug that creates a grossly OP mechanic isn't "exploiting", exactly what DO you call it?
While I don't care about the Dilithium and other markets myself, that is also something people compete over and someone who exploits in PvE even would have an unfair advantage there. Besides, it's still the idea of people are cheating and Cryptic won't acknowledge that its is, much less enforce it.
This is the thing that I complained about early on - it wasn't just a PvP issue. It wasn't just an "okay, enjoy it" harmless thing. Whether it was Dil (thus Zen) or EC... whether it was gear... etc, etc, etc - it was a major bug that affected anybody that played the game outside of those that never play with others, don't farm Dil, never buy nor sell anything on the exchange, etc, etc, etc.
It was mind boggling to read that enjoy it statement - even if it was somewhat jokingly said - it was mind boggling.
all I have to ask is who the hell cares if its a bug OR an exploit... you are all just dancing around with semantics, and arguing just for the sake of the argument... the voldy bug is fixed again... until they TRIBBLE something up again in the future but until that day.... please stop whining that its a bug, or an exploit its currently fixed get over yourselves...
thanks for fixing it BTW... puts the levelish playing field back in fleet actions and pvp
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
all I have to ask is who the hell cares if its a bug OR an exploit... you are all just dancing around with semantics, and arguing just for the sake of the argument... the voldy bug is fixed again... until they TRIBBLE something up again in the future but until that day.... please stop whining that its a bug, or an exploit its currently fixed get over yourselves...
thanks for fixing it BTW... puts the levelish playing field back in fleet actions and pvp
It matters b/c exploiting violates the ToS. Using an exploit against another player is griefing which also violates the ToS. Further, using Bort's example the Jem Shield exploit could prevent people from playing content as they got DC'd when other player's used the shield and were taking a decent rate of fire or lolz plasma procs etc.
Cryptic having exploitable bugs isn't the issue. The issue is they won't enforce their ToS and have condoned cheating. They will claim they haven't b/c they're too cheap to enforce their ToS and want to save face, so they're claiming people using bugs aren't cheating.
Also, this bug and others have a long history of repeatedly being brought back after every code merger. This isn't the 1st time this bug has been "fixed".
Maybe you like a game where people can exploit and grief each other. Maybe you like being in a game and seeing the same bugs pop up again over and over.
I don't.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Why has it become our fault, when they TRIBBLE up?
It's not you fault if they TRIBBLE up.
It is your fault if they TRIBBLE up and you use that to your own advantage to the detrament of others.
Think of the ToS this way:
Even if they don't spend much resources on enforcing it, the threat is usually enough to keep honest people honest.
Much like a screen door being locked will keep honest people out, but do nothing to keep out people really want to get in. They basically kicked the screen door in for other players and handed out jackhammers to trash the place while they were at it by TRIBBLE up the bug, then telling people "enjoy".
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
It's nice that they fixed this voldemort issue. However there are at least 3 others that are still not been fixed. Alot of premades still use these. Currently there is at total of 5 if I remember right.
I had real fun killing n Voldy users , i`m kinda gonna miss that lol. Also there where some ppl where using Voldy + AMS, Grav pulse, etc. etc, and those where my fav. :P
It's nice that they fixed this voldemort issue. However there are at least 3 others that are still not been fixed. Alot of premades still use these. Currently there is at total of 5 if I remember right.
im not sure what these are.
hrm. i watch everyone very closely, and run with the best pilots in the game from across several of the top pvp fleets.
It's nice that they fixed this voldemort issue. However there are at least 3 others that are still not been fixed. Alot of premades still use these. Currently there is at total of 5 if I remember right.
Maybe you should publish that list? We can't put pressure on Cryptic to fix the issues if we don't even know that they exist and what they are.
At least I'm not aware of any exploit-type bugs in the game at the moment. There are lots of things that can ruin balance (energy drain, full aux/spec gravpulse), but all the issues I can think of are the results of Cryptic's lack of understanding how balance works, not the result of actual bugs. (Well, there is FAW - but that is "negatively bugged", i.e. underpowered because of cryptic's coding failure.)
all I have to ask is who the hell cares if its a bug OR an exploit... you are all just dancing around with semantics, and arguing just for the sake of the argument... the voldy bug is fixed again... until they TRIBBLE something up again in the future but until that day.... please stop whining that its a bug, or an exploit its currently fixed get over yourselves...
First off, its kind of funny to argue with e1 to stop arguing for the sake of argument, then saying to get over yourself.
Second, for me, it has nothing to do on whether its a bug or exploit. It has to do with the consistency that cryptic is showing on how they run their game. At one time, they would ban people for talking about a bug that created the same issues of having extra boff powers available to use. This time around we're told to enjoy your extra boff's. Then, we're told that simply reporting that the bug exists isn't good enough, but that we the customer have to track down "how" to reproduce it in order for them to fix it and post it so the devs can trouble shoot it. Then we're told that posting how to reproduce a bug is against forum rules.
confused yet? Thats the issue I have. How are we supposed to even know what is acceptable and what isn't, much less where the boundaries of the rules they inconsistently enforce are?
Comments
First... thank you for the fix.
To be honest your view of exploit is a little off. Code errors happen, that doesn't mean people are in the right for continuing to use something, that is broken. Players do not have Dev ESP... we can't decide if a broken piece of code was something you woopsied on or something you had no idea would function that way. We don't get a pass because we don't know what you where thinking when the code was "broken".
YES it is your right... and frankly your responsibility. As a dev to enforce your TOS... if Cryptic as a whole doesn't have the stomach for that... frankly you guys need to man up.
I know you have played other games that are out there... how many of them do you think would go so far in NOT enforcing there TOS as to say have fun with this till we fix it (I understand the comment was light hearted)... even if it is destroying game play. (I am not just talking about PVP here... man I can't tell you how many stfs I was in the last week or so that ended really really quickly cause some goof was running disperal 3 omega 3 Rapid 3... ect. I remember doing one infected where the gate blew up like 20sec after the second transformer went down. lol)
Honesty this "Bug" Could be activated innocently enough... which is WHY Cryptic as a Developer needs to learn how to send people warnings. As well as tow the company line... Which I believe is likely FOLLOW THE TOS. I have never played any game where I know of people being baned for being reported for using an exploit... they all get banned after getting WARNED about using an exploit. Your warnings could have explained how to remove skills from there tool bar... no one was forcing those people to push the extra buttons... but no one was saying they ought not to either.
Anyway again thanks for the fix... I just hope in the future you guys will be a little more by the book when this stuff happens.
If it was avoidable and I was warned I'd expect it. In fact I can't think of an exploited bug I've heard of that wasn't avoidable in this game.
Shield regen bug/exploit
TBR bug/exploit
Plas Leech bug/exploit
Jem Shield bug/exploit
etc
This is about people knowingly cheat and there being no pushiment to discourage the cheating. Seriously, the example he gave actually DC'd people and prevented them playing the game ...
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
All exploits are errors either in the conceptualization of the code or the code itself.
What you are trying to say is that you will act when you can prove "intent', and when you are unable to prove intent, you do not act and fix the code.
What I say to that is allow us to report the exploiters. Then when you can prove that they did exploit, you send them a warning. The 2nd time they have to be warned about the same thing, then you can ban them. You can ban them at that point because you have established a paper trail of wrong doing.
In this case, you were able to get the fix out the door rather quickly, but harm was still done to all parties. You should still never encourage the use of a coding error and give it free reign like you did. You should establish a clear procedure of what will happen if one gets caught until a fix is deployed and state that they should not use the "coding error".
I know that I pay you guys well for a good experience on this game, and I have not enjoyed myself for the past week with this voldemort bug.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
which brings up another point.. if a power is in use on a ship that wouldn't normally have access to that power, you know the player made a conscious choice to use the power at that point by dragging it to their power tray, thereby establishing intent.
DEM3 on a defiant.. grav well, etc.. yes.. the player does in fact know better as you just eluded to.
A simple scan of the database would prove that intent if a power that a ship should never have active is actually used.. that stuff is even in the logs. I had a log parser going in every match to see who was exploiting, and if I can determine it based on that little amount of information, then so can cryptic who has even more information than I do to examine.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lol...by your definition nothing is an exploit then unless someone actually goes in and hacks your programming.
Exactly how was this new version of voldemort different than the last one according to your definition? You guys called it an exploit last time and banned people for even talking about it. Even if this one was much easier to produce, it was still made possible by an error in your coding that allowed it.
Is it safe to assume this is also why you don't punish people that logout in combat and bot/farm? Since your programming allows it, theyre not responsible for their actions?
Feels like the game would be better off if the Devs appeared half as serious about the quality of the product as the players. Then again, maybe the players would be better off if they accepted that this is an unrealistic expectation.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Grats on figuring out how to cheat ...
How fun do you think it'd be if the Jem shield broke again and you were lagged out b/c someone chose to use it?
I get messing around for lolz and all, but they denied and still deny it was an exploit.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Yeah, they lied when they said people were using it w/o knowing it. You need to brain dead to know you shouldn't have multiple commander boff abilities and it takes the action of using the boff ability on the players part. Don't let them fool you, they're too cheap to have enforce their enforcement policy. That is the only reason to allow the TRIBBLE that they have allowed and condone it.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
NPCs don't mind being cheated. As long as it isn't used against players, or in competitive PvE (fleet actions, for example), I can't really hate on the guy.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
While I don't care about the Dilithium and other markets myself, that is also something people compete over and someone who exploits in PvE even would have an unfair advantage there. Besides, it's still the idea of people are cheating and Cryptic won't acknowledge that its is, much less enforce it.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
An exploit, imo, is when something in the game that is working as intended but has an unintentional adverse effect when stacked or combined with other abilities and items, resulting in an unforseen performance well above and beyond than they should, giving the player a knowingly unfair advantage with no drawbacks or counters.
although, if i may point out... if proper testing was considered before this was pushed live it would have been fixed on the "test server". i mean it is called the test server for a reason right?
right?
....
i look forward to the next voldemort bug with season 8.
Do you even Science Bro?
So, by your definition, using tric mines with DPB is an exploit? The argument that tric mines have a counter does not apply since your definition is "no drawbacks or counters" to the COMBO of using dispersal pattern and tric's.
Edit: I suppose you could say that snb or snb doff proc could strip the DPB buff off before you lay out the mines, but that's a pretty weak argument. It's no better of an argument than you could use snb against someone who has multiple commander Boff slots, therefore voldie can be countered
By your definition, if a player taking advantage of a bug that creates a grossly OP mechanic isn't "exploiting", exactly what DO you call it?
This is the thing that I complained about early on - it wasn't just a PvP issue. It wasn't just an "okay, enjoy it" harmless thing. Whether it was Dil (thus Zen) or EC... whether it was gear... etc, etc, etc - it was a major bug that affected anybody that played the game outside of those that never play with others, don't farm Dil, never buy nor sell anything on the exchange, etc, etc, etc.
It was mind boggling to read that enjoy it statement - even if it was somewhat jokingly said - it was mind boggling.
thanks for fixing it BTW... puts the levelish playing field back in fleet actions and pvp
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
In order for their to be an exploit, there has to be a bug. Not all bugs are exploited, mind you.
It matters b/c exploiting violates the ToS. Using an exploit against another player is griefing which also violates the ToS. Further, using Bort's example the Jem Shield exploit could prevent people from playing content as they got DC'd when other player's used the shield and were taking a decent rate of fire or lolz plasma procs etc.
Cryptic having exploitable bugs isn't the issue. The issue is they won't enforce their ToS and have condoned cheating. They will claim they haven't b/c they're too cheap to enforce their ToS and want to save face, so they're claiming people using bugs aren't cheating.
Also, this bug and others have a long history of repeatedly being brought back after every code merger. This isn't the 1st time this bug has been "fixed".
Maybe you like a game where people can exploit and grief each other. Maybe you like being in a game and seeing the same bugs pop up again over and over.
I don't.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
It's not you fault if they TRIBBLE up.
It is your fault if they TRIBBLE up and you use that to your own advantage to the detrament of others.
Think of the ToS this way:
Even if they don't spend much resources on enforcing it, the threat is usually enough to keep honest people honest.
Much like a screen door being locked will keep honest people out, but do nothing to keep out people really want to get in. They basically kicked the screen door in for other players and handed out jackhammers to trash the place while they were at it by TRIBBLE up the bug, then telling people "enjoy".
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
2: the q's should be rattled by good piloting tonight.
3: btw, i have that list i was making of people i'm going to hunt for a week because i watched them use this bug and boast and laugh about it.
4: the hunt starts tonight at 10pm EST
have fun, kill bad guys
im not sure what these are.
hrm. i watch everyone very closely, and run with the best pilots in the game from across several of the top pvp fleets.
interesting
At least I'm not aware of any exploit-type bugs in the game at the moment. There are lots of things that can ruin balance (energy drain, full aux/spec gravpulse), but all the issues I can think of are the results of Cryptic's lack of understanding how balance works, not the result of actual bugs. (Well, there is FAW - but that is "negatively bugged", i.e. underpowered because of cryptic's coding failure.)
First off, its kind of funny to argue with e1 to stop arguing for the sake of argument, then saying to get over yourself.
Second, for me, it has nothing to do on whether its a bug or exploit. It has to do with the consistency that cryptic is showing on how they run their game. At one time, they would ban people for talking about a bug that created the same issues of having extra boff powers available to use. This time around we're told to enjoy your extra boff's. Then, we're told that simply reporting that the bug exists isn't good enough, but that we the customer have to track down "how" to reproduce it in order for them to fix it and post it so the devs can trouble shoot it. Then we're told that posting how to reproduce a bug is against forum rules.
confused yet? Thats the issue I have. How are we supposed to even know what is acceptable and what isn't, much less where the boundaries of the rules they inconsistently enforce are?