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A Perspective of a two week old player
shmn
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Seeing the amount of negativity around the forums regarding S7 I thought I'd share my thoughts and experiences as someone who has only been around for two weeks, give or take. Of course, as it is all still rather novel to me, I acknowledge that I may be somewhat incapable of appreciating the wants and criticisms of those of you who have stuck around for a longer while, and it is not my intention to presuppose to know better or belittle those concerns -- rather, what I wish to convey is that there is also a lot to appreciate, which may be especially difficult to see if you lack recent experience of other games as points of reference.
Now, I've played my share of mmo's (Eve, ****, RoM, Rift, SWTOR, CO, Tera, GW1&2, WoW etc.) I don't know why I never tried STO before except that I just assumed it was mediocre and never gave it a chance; now, of course, I am real glad I've finally done so because it has positively exceeded my expectations in many ways.
First of all, you can't go into most mmos not expecting there to be a certain amount of grind involved. Some games handle (or mask) it better, some worse and don't get me wrong, STO isn't outside the box on this one; it has, however (at least for me) succeeded in the most important: core gameplay that is satisfying. I absolutely love space combat in this game, it has just the right amount of micromanagement and tactical depth, the effects are very pleasing to watch and even similar encounters fail to feel repetitive. You don't have to kill yet another 3 birds of prey, you get to. And that makes all the difference, because the journey is just as important as the destination, if not more so.
I was also surprised by how good the game looks in space. It doesn't feel outdated at all as I had feared. Ground is more visibly old, but it serves its purpose and to have it in the game in the first place is, I must say, pretty cool -- and adds a certain depth to immersion. I can't think of any other mmo that has two systems of gameplay similarly functioning in parallel where the other wasn't just a shallow afterthought (SWTOR space combat anyone?) Sure, ground combat isn't nearly as great as space is but it's a lot more than just an afterthought. Missions with mixed action help keep it varied, although the game would certainly benefit from mission descriptions that tell you how much space vs ground is involved.
Something very important to me in a virtual world that STO gets right and many if not most of its competitors fall embarrassingly short on is customization. STO & CO's level of customization should be the standard in today's mmos. It isn't. Single player games are better suited for being the predefined protagonist, mmo's are for expressing yourself in a virtual environment. That spirit is very much alive in STO and it makes me feel welcome instead of being another dragonkiller123 going through the hoops standing in line to be the "epic" slayer #24848 of whatever.
But let's turn over to endgame since that's what I suspect most of you are here for anyway. I've been VA for a few days now and already have Romulan rep at T2, Omega at T1 (I've claimed 2 pieces of the Mk X Borg space set with the third in the oven). Granted I have played very actively both in reaching VA as well as doing PVE (I have ~35 neural processors) but so far, if anything, endgame progression feels fast.
In fact, I'm more concerned about having goals a month or two down the line. I feared earning dilithium would be difficult but I have found quite the opposite to be true; I hit my daily refining cap quite easily, and that's without the help today's patch will bring. It seems to me that endgame is often a kind of no-win scenario: players will complain if you make it actually take effort to last a significant period of time and then they complain when they run out of things to grind for anyway. Well, I for one want to have difficult goals, that's what makes them worth achieving. I'm excited about getting cool stuff for my ship and the kind of content that STO has is very much the kind that I like (the kind that visually changes the appearance of your ship, unlocks unique powers etc).
Now as a word of criticism I do have to say that I would prefer reputation gain was gated through effort instead of time; ie. give us alternate projects that are shorter but take more marks and exp, rewarding active effort. As it is, you can't really "grind" rep since you can't spend it that fast anyway (I think I have 1.2k omega marks just sitting there for now). But on the other hand some time gating will prevent the super grinders from exhausting all content in a week (which is what happens in many mmo's) and then rolling around complaining about lack of stuff to do.
The two-fold system of reputation and fleet marks is one I also like as it gives you parallel progression that results in people not all getting the same rewards (as is, again, the case with endgame gear in many mmos). Some will aim for fleet ships, others will aim for rep gear and if you've exhausted one dimension of progression, you still have things to do in the other one. And then there's the doff system, which is just awesome and provides yet another facet of gameplay that caters more to the collector motivation. Not that there couldn't be improvements, of course, such as allowing fleet modules to be purchased with fleet credits (even if relatively expensive) and reducing the degree to which starbase projects are (rather heavily) time gated.
What I've come to expect from mmo endgames is to be disappointed by the options and by goals that don't justify the effort -- what STO has given me is several appealing alternatives that do not feel like a grind but work as good "excuses" (or incentive mechanisms) to simply enjoy the core gameplay that is pleasing in itself and that also leaves room for a great deal of expression; through allowing you to tailor elements of and keep changing up your playstyle and appearance.
While I am certain that part of the novelty will wear off as I do Infected: The Conduit for the 2000th time, I also remain rather hopeful as many mmo's have given me much less before, and STO gets many things right -- all we need is the continued supply of content to maintain variety and the balance tweaks to go with it.
So, keep holding Cryptic to a high standard and be critical where it's deserved, but never forget to appreciate the many redeeming qualities that STO has and that are all too rare in the marketplace to begin with. Sometimes you need to take a step back and get a fresh perspective to appreciate what you have.
Thanks for reading.
TLDR; STO is awesome, space ships go pew pew, explosions are fun.
Now, I've played my share of mmo's (Eve, ****, RoM, Rift, SWTOR, CO, Tera, GW1&2, WoW etc.) I don't know why I never tried STO before except that I just assumed it was mediocre and never gave it a chance; now, of course, I am real glad I've finally done so because it has positively exceeded my expectations in many ways.
First of all, you can't go into most mmos not expecting there to be a certain amount of grind involved. Some games handle (or mask) it better, some worse and don't get me wrong, STO isn't outside the box on this one; it has, however (at least for me) succeeded in the most important: core gameplay that is satisfying. I absolutely love space combat in this game, it has just the right amount of micromanagement and tactical depth, the effects are very pleasing to watch and even similar encounters fail to feel repetitive. You don't have to kill yet another 3 birds of prey, you get to. And that makes all the difference, because the journey is just as important as the destination, if not more so.
I was also surprised by how good the game looks in space. It doesn't feel outdated at all as I had feared. Ground is more visibly old, but it serves its purpose and to have it in the game in the first place is, I must say, pretty cool -- and adds a certain depth to immersion. I can't think of any other mmo that has two systems of gameplay similarly functioning in parallel where the other wasn't just a shallow afterthought (SWTOR space combat anyone?) Sure, ground combat isn't nearly as great as space is but it's a lot more than just an afterthought. Missions with mixed action help keep it varied, although the game would certainly benefit from mission descriptions that tell you how much space vs ground is involved.
Something very important to me in a virtual world that STO gets right and many if not most of its competitors fall embarrassingly short on is customization. STO & CO's level of customization should be the standard in today's mmos. It isn't. Single player games are better suited for being the predefined protagonist, mmo's are for expressing yourself in a virtual environment. That spirit is very much alive in STO and it makes me feel welcome instead of being another dragonkiller123 going through the hoops standing in line to be the "epic" slayer #24848 of whatever.
But let's turn over to endgame since that's what I suspect most of you are here for anyway. I've been VA for a few days now and already have Romulan rep at T2, Omega at T1 (I've claimed 2 pieces of the Mk X Borg space set with the third in the oven). Granted I have played very actively both in reaching VA as well as doing PVE (I have ~35 neural processors) but so far, if anything, endgame progression feels fast.
In fact, I'm more concerned about having goals a month or two down the line. I feared earning dilithium would be difficult but I have found quite the opposite to be true; I hit my daily refining cap quite easily, and that's without the help today's patch will bring. It seems to me that endgame is often a kind of no-win scenario: players will complain if you make it actually take effort to last a significant period of time and then they complain when they run out of things to grind for anyway. Well, I for one want to have difficult goals, that's what makes them worth achieving. I'm excited about getting cool stuff for my ship and the kind of content that STO has is very much the kind that I like (the kind that visually changes the appearance of your ship, unlocks unique powers etc).
Now as a word of criticism I do have to say that I would prefer reputation gain was gated through effort instead of time; ie. give us alternate projects that are shorter but take more marks and exp, rewarding active effort. As it is, you can't really "grind" rep since you can't spend it that fast anyway (I think I have 1.2k omega marks just sitting there for now). But on the other hand some time gating will prevent the super grinders from exhausting all content in a week (which is what happens in many mmo's) and then rolling around complaining about lack of stuff to do.
The two-fold system of reputation and fleet marks is one I also like as it gives you parallel progression that results in people not all getting the same rewards (as is, again, the case with endgame gear in many mmos). Some will aim for fleet ships, others will aim for rep gear and if you've exhausted one dimension of progression, you still have things to do in the other one. And then there's the doff system, which is just awesome and provides yet another facet of gameplay that caters more to the collector motivation. Not that there couldn't be improvements, of course, such as allowing fleet modules to be purchased with fleet credits (even if relatively expensive) and reducing the degree to which starbase projects are (rather heavily) time gated.
What I've come to expect from mmo endgames is to be disappointed by the options and by goals that don't justify the effort -- what STO has given me is several appealing alternatives that do not feel like a grind but work as good "excuses" (or incentive mechanisms) to simply enjoy the core gameplay that is pleasing in itself and that also leaves room for a great deal of expression; through allowing you to tailor elements of and keep changing up your playstyle and appearance.
While I am certain that part of the novelty will wear off as I do Infected: The Conduit for the 2000th time, I also remain rather hopeful as many mmo's have given me much less before, and STO gets many things right -- all we need is the continued supply of content to maintain variety and the balance tweaks to go with it.
So, keep holding Cryptic to a high standard and be critical where it's deserved, but never forget to appreciate the many redeeming qualities that STO has and that are all too rare in the marketplace to begin with. Sometimes you need to take a step back and get a fresh perspective to appreciate what you have.
Thanks for reading.
TLDR; STO is awesome, space ships go pew pew, explosions are fun.
IGN: Noveria
Post edited by shmn on
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Comments
As a word of advice, don't read too much into the negativity that you see on the forums. I think right now is the LEAST NEGATIVE this forum has ever been. We Star Trek nerds are drama queens and we love an argument. Between the Tier 5 Connie debates, and the uber-rage that lockboxes generated when they first arrived, the nerdrage on the forums is almost as entertaining as the game itself. The sky is always falling on the sto forums, and that's why I love it!
Glad you seem to be enjoying the game. I'm a lifer who took time off in February of this year and I'm just now returning myself. Seems like there's hope for this game yet, from what I can tell.
So then is the inverse true that it all inevitably turns to QQ in the golden years?
Very true. There are many who pick up every new mmo and quit at the end of the first month. I'm usually not one of them but I understand it and mmo's in general suffer from a lack of varied, engaging endgame content that doesn't get repetitive. It's also in part due to just fatigue; same as playing a single player game thoroughly. Difference is, mmo playhours are in the hundreds and need to engage players in different ways.
Games that provide a solid single player experience rarely succeed in retaining player interest (Exhibit A SWTOR). Then there is also the phenomenon of dynamic single player worlds like Minecraft, Skyrim or even Borderlands that allow for nigh unlimited progression and compete for players' attention. Back in the day mmo's were offering something more unique while game genres now overlap and as a result more is expected of all of them.
MMO development is a huge undertaking as well and endgame content is almost always afforded too little resources and consequentially takes post release maturing to develop; this makes the mmo market difficult to penetrate with new releases.
To me STO represents the direction MMO's should (and perhaps need to) take; that of being platforms for expression and social arenas. In pretty much every other facet single player games will eclipse them (if they haven't already).
I have to be cautiously optimistic as I am still, as you say, in my honeymoon phase. A good sign, at least, is the fact that STO's endgame actually motivates me to get engaged (no pun intended) without being compelled to make alts (usually I am quite the alt-a-holic!)
The fact that you have no alts is telling, as that's one of the major flaws with S7's design.
Don't disagree the fundamentals of STO are there, but what drives us insane around here is the missed opportunities, wasted potential, and bad decision-making skills.
i plant to treat myself to a nice ship when i turn 50 from the c-store as well.
to me i understand that grind is a necessary part of ANY mmo.. i'm not quite sure why the STO community feels they are beyond that aspect. this is an mmo. and in order for mmo's to keep people playing you have to have that carrot on a stick.
dont worry what others say. keep playing until you no longer find it fun, then stop. if you still enjoy it after a year then great. if your bored after a month, then thats fine too.
the problem comes when people force themselves to play because they feel they have to just because its on 24/7. take what you want from the game and enjoy the ride for however long it lasts.
You've been playing 2 weeks and have 35 Neural Processors and 1200 Omega Marks. You are most certainly not the average player. Far from it in fact. Most players don't have a single Neural Processor. Elite STFs aren't that much harder than regular, but new players generally just can't handle them. I'd even suspect that most new players are hard-pressed to get to 50 in 2 weeks.
You're new, so you haven't seen things as they were before. Much of the complaining is less about current content and more about CHANGE and destroyed expectations. From my perspective at least, a Reputation system isn't a bad thing. The system that it is replacing was in my opinion better. A great deal of the complaints from KDF players is a result of consistent disappointment.
Much of the complaining about the increase in grind is based on it becoming significantly more difficult for most players to have alts and find the time to actually do anything with them. I don't feel bad for the people who have 24 characters and use them for nothing but farming dilithium. But if you have 3 or 4 characters that you want to keep reasonably advanced, it takes quite a bit more time than it did before.
Having said all that, if I really hated this game, I wouldn't be playing it.
That really depends on the game company. The divorce usually happens when the devs or their owners decide to take the game into a completely different (and usually wrong) direction than what you were willing to pay for.
That is true, I almost certainly am not typical; I never made such a claim either, nor do any of my arguments rely on that assumption as far as I'm aware. I just wanted to share my perspective. And you should always take everything with a grain of salt; or rather judge the arguments by their merits rather than their author.
I can appreciate this. I wasn't here so I cannot really understand it. I came straight into S7 without any foreknowledge of how S6 or S5 were, nothing to base expectations on, and from that (untarnished, if you will) point of view, there is much more positive than there is negative.
By sharing that perspective I wanted or hoped some of those of you suffering from this feeling of relative deprivation would gain at least a little renewed appreciation for the game; a game that is wonderful in many respects.
P.S. MMO forums are, by and large, dreadful and if you went only by them, every game was in a constant state of dying and abysmal in general!
That's because by and large, MMO players are nerd ragers par excellence.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
S.6 and S.7 came out relatively close to one another , and they introduced a type of grind that was just not in the game before .
Understand that the game went on for over 2 years without this type of grind . That is a looooong time in a 3 y/old MMO's lifespan .
S.6 added a lot to get used to , but S.7 started out as an awful in-game economy "experiment" by the Devs .
With the latest patch (today) , there has been an upswing in moral thanks to some positive changes that were made .
But retention will be an issue down the line and Cryptic's tendency is not to take it as seriously as I think they ought to.
Totally agree..been there..done that...I used to love SWOTR...as well. In retro they both suck just IMO .
See this:
Make players grind until their eyes bleed or make them pay through the urethra. We don't care how you milk them dry, just make sure that milking them dry until their nipples petrify and fall off is your only goal. Don't deviate from this goal unless you'd rather be on the bread line." - Prime Directive from PWE
The forums are for the rageaholics to go and vent so they don't hurt the people around them. It's a valuable public service methinks. Just grab popcorn and read for the giggles and occasional good advice. Then go play the game the way you want for the reasons you like.
Most two week olds that I've seen can't talk, and can't even focus on objects around them. You Sir are way ahead of the pack!
PS. Nice post.
Path to 2409: Martok made the definitive statement of the Klingon Empire's view of the Romulan Star Empire in 2388. "
The Klingons will offer no treaty, no aid, and no hand that is not holding a blade"
The vast majority of posts on the forums are not rage, but rather valid complaints about legitimate problems with the game. For example, if you are at a party with 50 people, but 1 of them is yelling and screaming, that is the one you are more likely to remember. However, it does make it easier for the fanboys to dismiss the legitimate criticisms by labeling the entire forum as rageaholics.
Agreed, all game forums will have a negative bias:
If you're having fun, you'd rather play the game than participate in a shallow "this is fun" "Yeah! Me too!" thread.
If you're not having fun and feeling constructive, you'd be inclined post information about the problem.
If you're not having fun and feeling counterproductive, you'd be motivated to vent on the forums.
Pull the other one. Got phasers on it.
Exactly. Pretty much Rule One of the Interweebs.
And STO has the dubious honor of many of its MMO players are specifically also Trekkies, and claiming their franchise as its setting. If that doesn't attract nerd rage, I don't know what would. (Except something crazy like Michael Bay being the Executive Producer of a Beast Wars-based Transformers MMO... few do RUINED FOREVER like Transformers fans.)
Sorry, not sure what you mean.
It's a derivative of an expression that means he thinks you're pulling his leg...
I play a lot less than the OP, though, and have only reached level 10 so far. I'm quite happy to have my new Constitution cruiser (with Excalibur pylons and nacelles so it looks like a 25th century variant), and crave every chance I have to get into the game. I probably could be higher level by now if I spent all my time doing episodes, but I like spending time on things like exploring and diplomatic missions and duty officers and so on.
What I love about the game so far is that there's so many different things to do. Some, like mining, I can see myself getting tired of quickly, but others, like exploring a star cluster, and the fleet actions and the Borg incursions will, I'm sure, hold my attention for quite some time.
The problem with Trek fans is they have this Legacy in that makes them think if the band together and make enough noise they can get things changed. While its an noble idea it gets really old on the forums when every nerd rage thread puts up a banner and screams: "WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!
I'm really glad the OP is having fun and bet the vast majority of folks is having fun. We're still really early into Season 7 so more tweaks here and there should be expected. And more constructive feed back should keep be given to the devs.
Lets face it each season is a new experiment for cryptic. Add the Rep & adventure zone idea with the Fleet system, Doff system, ground combat and foundry. It may have a few bumps at first but there is an idea there to grow it into something more. I hope things calm down when the winter event starts and that the rage over the next lockbox will blow over faster then usual since lockboxes should be expected at this point.
Back during the thickness of TNG, my fanclub would gather to watch each episode. When they got preempted for sports we'd flood the stations answering machine with nerd rage. These days I assume we'd have used Facebook.
Having come from TOR, I can tell you that the end game grind wore me down to the bone. I think I prefer the STO model anyways as the wide variety of dailies helps mix things up. Add in the Foundry and the fleet action, alts and character customization, and I don't think I will be going anywhere anytime soon. Obviously it helps that I am a huge Trek nerd!
I have also spent way more than I expected on the cash shop ... so the model seems to work well, at least for me. I will not be bothering with TOR's prison camp approach to F2P unless it is drastically redone. I like being enticed to pay ... not forced. Keep up the spirits ladies and gents.
Cheers!
"Never give up ... never surrender"
- Judge Aaron Satie
Whoa whoa whoa whoa, son! This is an MMO forum! Where's all the indignant entitlement? Where's all the unfocussed nerdrage?
Seriously though, welcome aboard. I'm glad that we still have new players around who aren't easily scared off by the vocal minority, not to mention new folks who know how to have fun with the games they aren't obligated to spend a dime on.
If Cryptic made the MMO they wanted, it would be an absolute train wreck,
Alts cost money... character slots. IT's NOT AN EXPLOIT TO USE ALTS! What Cryptic has done is make purchasing character slots worthless by vastly increasing (artificially) the time and currency required to gear those alts. Just because some people can't play more than one or two characters doesn't make those of us who choose to play (because we find it fun) several "expoiters." If it was an exploit, character slots purchases would have been removed from the store years ago.