...So basically it's the Kalashnikov of StarFleet ships.
This. This exactly. This same analogy occurred to me.
First entered service in 1953, variants of the same basic design still rolling off assembly lines 60 years later, continuing into the foreseeable future.
(The inventor of the AK-47 was quoted as saying, "I'd rather have invented the lawnmower.")
Like trhrangerxml I'm an Excel fanboy. It's a beautiful, elegantly less-is-more design that hits me dead center in the nostalgia spot. I never felt "at home" in an STO ship until I was flying one.
Exactly. The Excelsior is a fun and amazing ship that plays in-game just like it is portrayed on the show, simple, sturdy and well-balanced. It doesn't have power of the Odyssey, but it works exactly like it's supposed to. Every time.
I think you just don't like that people might be content with a traditional ship rather than giving PWE $$$ for the latest FOTM.
That is really the issue, isn't it?
No. I just think the Excelsior is one of the least aesthetically pleasing ships I have ever seen, along the same lines as the Constellation, the Miranda, and most federation ship designs. My favorite ship design that I have ever come across is a Covenant Assault Cruiser. It's sleek, smooth, well proportioned and is functionally amazingly designed. For crying out loud, the Control Center (basically it's bridge), primary reactor, and most of it's primary subsystems are located in the center of the ship under dozens of armored decks and multiple layers of hull armor and shielding. Unlike most federation ship designs, where the bridge is on the top, and a lot of other systems are too exposed. Under a thin outer hull. Not practical.
I personally believe the Excelsior and most of those ships are a silly design, that isn't terribly functional or pleasing at all. I also do have an issue with a ship as old as that thing being more powerful than newer ships.
But in answer to your comment, no, I do not have a problem with people being content with a traditional ship. But because you are content with it doesn't mean I have to be as well.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Best looking of all starfleet ships , I am glad it is getting a decent upgrade
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Woot! Classic Star Trek look and feel! Got my one Fleet module [already have the retrofit] and will be in line first chance I get!
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I admit, this might just pull me out of my Vesta. Assuming that the Universal slot is put in in place of the Ensign Eng slot. Truth be told though, it wouldn't even have to be a Ensign Uni. Just an Ensign Sci would be great to counter-balance things a little. Other than that, regardless of what some of you are saying on your thoughts of the design style of the Excelsior type. Fair enough, if it's not for you visually that's fine, but don't let that alone keep you from trying what amounts to (if it's built right) a VERY effective 'combat tank' vessel with the added perk of trans-warp to every sector in space (barring Klingon Territory of course).
Anyways, that's my 'spiel' to be honest, and so you know, Tac player at heart, always loved the cruisers even so. There's just something so... squishy about an escort when it get's caught off guard sometimes in my experience, then again, never really known how to build Escorts to be anything more than a 'glass cannon'.
The 120 year old ship, refitted to hell and back already, is getting upgraded again? I mean its good for me since I already own it and get the upgrade for cheap, but really?
BTW, does the Fleet version have the transwarp or different boff layouts, or just enhanced numbers?
My thoughts exactly. It's a bit silly to be honest. Think about a F1 racing car from the 80s. Even with todays engines and bling bling it's chassis and design is simply outdated. Yeah I know RL analogies are terrible, but in this case it fits.
Could it be that at least one of the devs has a crush on that old tub?
Ok, so even if it was a testbed ship with a very sturdy frame, even if it was the perfect design of it's time, I just doubt Starfleet engineering would be unable to come up with some major breakthroughs and improvements during a 90 year period. That's almost a century, and no fundamental progress in hull design?
I don't care about the refits in general, but there should be a limit.
It would make a lot more sense if a refitted old design like the Excelsior was a tiny bit weaker than the new designs, but in turn had one or two unique selling points (like the Transwarp special).
Calling me biased would be entirely fair and accurate, but STO is already filled with stuff that either doesn't make in-universe sense or bends/breaks canon for the sake of keeping gameplay interesting, so keeping an older ship around at a higher competitive level than it realistically maybe should be is not really an issue IMO. And even if it was, it still wouldn't be a serious one by a long stretch.
It would make a lot more sense if an old design like the Excelsior was a tiny bit weaker than the new designs, but in turn had one or two unique selling points (like the Transwarp special).
Lack of universals. So not a modern starfleet ship.
Not that it bothers me I make good use of that engi team, TT is nice for really heavy spike damage but you wont suddenly blow up if its not running as long as you make some effort to do more than auto distribute in the average situation.
My thoughts exactly. It's a bit silly to be honest. Think about a F1 racing car from the 80s. Even with todays engines and bling bling it's chassis and design is simply outdated. Yeah I know RL analogies are terrible, but in this case it fits.
Could it be that at least one of the devs has a crush on that old tub?
Ok, so even if it was a testbed ship with a very sturdy frame, even if it was the perfect design of it's time, I just doubt Starfleet engineering would be unable to come up with some major breakthroughs and improvements during a 90 year period. That's almost a century, and no fundamental progress in hull design?
I don't care about the refits in general, but there should be a limit.
It would make a lot more sense if a refitted old design like the Excelsior was a tiny bit weaker than the new designs, but in turn had one or two unique selling points (like the Transwarp special).
This is what I've been trying to say... the Excelsior doesn't annoy me because I dislike the design (I think it's a pretty ship), I just think its continuing advantage over a 90-years-younger design is a little ridiculous. Particularly since the Sovereign was what the Odyssey is and the Excelsior was near the end of Kirk's career... the most advanced Starfleet vessel of its time. Considering that the Sovereign got total rebuilds since then in the forms of the Imperial and Regent classes and the Excelsior is basically a replica of the STIII ship...
Lack of universals. So not a modern starfleet ship.
Not that it bothers me I make good use of that engi team, TT is nice for really heavy spike damage but you wont suddenly blow up if its not running as long as you make some effort to do more than auto distribute in the average situation.
Yeah... an Ensign Engineer instead of a Universal is a pretty bad "drawback" compared to the Fleet AC Refit, whose Universal slot almost always goes to Science anyway.
I have the exelsior t5 but still it ask for 5 fleet modules
Did you purchase it via the C-Store or obtain it from a Veteran token? If the latter, it doesn't count as purchased from the C-Store and thus won't qualify you for the discount.
Yup, the covenant ship would be perfect if you wanted to crochet a gigantic space doilie.
Looks like a crochet hook and the ship from the navigator "got it on" and this was the result.
LOL
I remember seeing the Excelsior for the first time in Star Trek 3 and I thought it was the best thing ever, still do after almost 30 years.
I'd fly that ship even if it sucked.
That's a new one. I was actually referring to the cruisers, not the carriers. Carriers are a little too cumbersome and bulky in appearance IMO. And I was also mostly referring to it's functionality more than aesthetics with my praising of it.
Appearance wise, the best ship I have ever seen is the White Star from Babylon 5.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
This is what I've been trying to say... the Excelsior doesn't annoy me because I dislike the design (I think it's a pretty ship), I just think its continuing advantage over a 90-years-younger design is a little ridiculous. Particularly since the Sovereign was what the Odyssey is and the Excelsior was near the end of Kirk's career... the most advanced Starfleet vessel of its time. Considering that the Sovereign got total rebuilds since then in the forms of the Imperial and Regent classes and the Excelsior is basically a replica of the STIII ship...
Yeah the Excelsior is getting a bit long in the tooth, but really the precedent was set by TNG (where we see Excelsior-class ships still in operation and usually used by Admirals as their flagships) and later on in DS9 (specifically the Lakota refit) that old spaceframes can and usually are refitted so that they remain competitive. Also, just because a design is old doesn't mean the ship itself is. It could be straight off the drydock with all the new gizmos and stuff.
Frankly I think the Excelsior's spaceframe is superior to the Galaxy's, century old be damned. The Galaxy has a lot of curves and I like the design in general, but that neck tapers pretty thinly when it connects to the secondary hull, and the pylons connecting the nacelles are also really thin too. The Excelsior's neck is much sturdier, and it's pylons look like they can support their nacelles.. Ships like the Sovereign and Intrepid are all more like the Excelsior than the Galaxy, which suggests to me that as a design philosophy the Galaxy didn't take off with Starfleet. Even the Nebula, which is essentially a Galaxy kitbash, ditched the neck.
There might be other issues that make the Excelsior more attractive, given its longevity and obvious success as a ship design. Perhaps it's easier to maintain and/or refit.
I fully acknowledge that I'm biased in the matter but I always thought it was weird how the Admiral said the Connie was "almost 20 years old" disparagingly in Search for Spock. I mean, these aren't cars we're talking about, they're spaceships; if you're building them with the intention of ditching them barely two decades down the line, that's a hell of a lot of trouble and expense to go through.
I fully acknowledge that I'm biased in the matter but I always thought it was weird how the Admiral said the Connie was "almost 20 years old" disparagingly in Search for Spock. I mean, these aren't cars we're talking about, they're spaceships; if you're building them with the intention of ditching them barely two decades down the line, that's a hell of a lot of trouble and expense to go through.
Especially since they go ahead and make the ship that he was promoting become a significant ship of the line for the next 90 years.
I mean, it almost (but not quite, yet) makes me think that the "no T5 Connie" thing going on is a bit arbitrary...
I fully acknowledge that I'm biased in the matter but I always thought it was weird how the Admiral said the Connie was "almost 20 years old" disparagingly in Search for Spock. I mean, these aren't cars we're talking about, they're spaceships; if you're building them with the intention of ditching them barely two decades down the line, that's a hell of a lot of trouble and expense to go through.
You should keep two things in mind about what the Admiral said and why he said it.
1) It was the same film that we saw "the future" of starships, the Excel' and it was theoretically supposed to immediately make Connies' irrelevant. So it was probably storyline fluff.
2) He might have had some personal bias in regards to Excel' and maybe have been pushing the design (alongside its contractors) all the time, and put al of his eggs in one Excelsior shaped basket.
Comments
Excel or Nova?
This. This exactly. This same analogy occurred to me.
First entered service in 1953, variants of the same basic design still rolling off assembly lines 60 years later, continuing into the foreseeable future.
(The inventor of the AK-47 was quoted as saying, "I'd rather have invented the lawnmower.")
Exactly. The Excelsior is a fun and amazing ship that plays in-game just like it is portrayed on the show, simple, sturdy and well-balanced. It doesn't have power of the Odyssey, but it works exactly like it's supposed to. Every time.
I think you just don't like that people might be content with a traditional ship rather than giving PWE $$$ for the latest FOTM.
That is really the issue, isn't it?
Excelsior.
No. I just think the Excelsior is one of the least aesthetically pleasing ships I have ever seen, along the same lines as the Constellation, the Miranda, and most federation ship designs. My favorite ship design that I have ever come across is a Covenant Assault Cruiser. It's sleek, smooth, well proportioned and is functionally amazingly designed. For crying out loud, the Control Center (basically it's bridge), primary reactor, and most of it's primary subsystems are located in the center of the ship under dozens of armored decks and multiple layers of hull armor and shielding. Unlike most federation ship designs, where the bridge is on the top, and a lot of other systems are too exposed. Under a thin outer hull. Not practical.
I personally believe the Excelsior and most of those ships are a silly design, that isn't terribly functional or pleasing at all. I also do have an issue with a ship as old as that thing being more powerful than newer ships.
But in answer to your comment, no, I do not have a problem with people being content with a traditional ship. But because you are content with it doesn't mean I have to be as well.
Looks like a crochet hook and the ship from the navigator "got it on" and this was the result.
LOL
I remember seeing the Excelsior for the first time in Star Trek 3 and I thought it was the best thing ever, still do after almost 30 years.
I'd fly that ship even if it sucked.
Yes, that's the reason for it costing 5 Fleet Ship Modules if you don't own the VA variant.
My Engineer will be flying one asap
Yep - the NX 93889-A is about to get decommissioned - may fortune favour the U.S.S. Damocles NX 93889-B
Best looking of all starfleet ships , I am glad it is getting a decent upgrade
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
Anyways, that's my 'spiel' to be honest, and so you know, Tac player at heart, always loved the cruisers even so. There's just something so... squishy about an escort when it get's caught off guard sometimes in my experience, then again, never really known how to build Escorts to be anything more than a 'glass cannon'.
My thoughts exactly. It's a bit silly to be honest. Think about a F1 racing car from the 80s. Even with todays engines and bling bling it's chassis and design is simply outdated. Yeah I know RL analogies are terrible, but in this case it fits.
Could it be that at least one of the devs has a crush on that old tub?
Ok, so even if it was a testbed ship with a very sturdy frame, even if it was the perfect design of it's time, I just doubt Starfleet engineering would be unable to come up with some major breakthroughs and improvements during a 90 year period. That's almost a century, and no fundamental progress in hull design?
I don't care about the refits in general, but there should be a limit.
It would make a lot more sense if a refitted old design like the Excelsior was a tiny bit weaker than the new designs, but in turn had one or two unique selling points (like the Transwarp special).
Fair enough.
She is, she's stuck with an ensign engineer...
Not that it bothers me I make good use of that engi team, TT is nice for really heavy spike damage but you wont suddenly blow up if its not running as long as you make some effort to do more than auto distribute in the average situation.
Did you purchase it via the C-Store or obtain it from a Veteran token? If the latter, it doesn't count as purchased from the C-Store and thus won't qualify you for the discount.
That's a new one. I was actually referring to the cruisers, not the carriers. Carriers are a little too cumbersome and bulky in appearance IMO. And I was also mostly referring to it's functionality more than aesthetics with my praising of it.
Appearance wise, the best ship I have ever seen is the White Star from Babylon 5.
Yeah, I do like that one. Nearest thing we'll have to that design is that Andorian Battle Cruiser most likely...
I already responded in your C-store thread but if you already have an existing Excelsior Retrofit, bought from the C-store:
1) Discharge it first (after removing all its gear)
2) Claim the Excelsior Retrofit in the C-store
3) Buy the Fleet Excelsior with one module
Frankly I think the Excelsior's spaceframe is superior to the Galaxy's, century old be damned. The Galaxy has a lot of curves and I like the design in general, but that neck tapers pretty thinly when it connects to the secondary hull, and the pylons connecting the nacelles are also really thin too. The Excelsior's neck is much sturdier, and it's pylons look like they can support their nacelles.. Ships like the Sovereign and Intrepid are all more like the Excelsior than the Galaxy, which suggests to me that as a design philosophy the Galaxy didn't take off with Starfleet. Even the Nebula, which is essentially a Galaxy kitbash, ditched the neck.
There might be other issues that make the Excelsior more attractive, given its longevity and obvious success as a ship design. Perhaps it's easier to maintain and/or refit.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Especially since they go ahead and make the ship that he was promoting become a significant ship of the line for the next 90 years.
I mean, it almost (but not quite, yet) makes me think that the "no T5 Connie" thing going on is a bit arbitrary...
You should keep two things in mind about what the Admiral said and why he said it.
1) It was the same film that we saw "the future" of starships, the Excel' and it was theoretically supposed to immediately make Connies' irrelevant. So it was probably storyline fluff.
2) He might have had some personal bias in regards to Excel' and maybe have been pushing the design (alongside its contractors) all the time, and put al of his eggs in one Excelsior shaped basket.
Many of us never stopped using our T-5 Excel's, its a fine ship, Id argue still better than the Regent.
I personaly have always loved this ship and the fleet version doesn't disappoint.
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