That's strange of you to say in particular Daizen, if you throw an Eng into a destroyer-type 'scort like the Batman boat you're basically getting the same result as a Taxcelsior.
An escort's main purpose is to deal damage, an engineer increases the amount of time it can do that under focused fire.
A fed cruisers main purpose is to heal, which a tac will not improve one bit.
Also at the end of the day Cruisers need engineers in them to not make them a liability. I know I rub my hands when I see tac!cruiser on the otherteam, since they tend to pop easier then tac!escorts(well bugs anyway), especially when you stick a tractor beam on them.
singles, DEM3, and 2 AtB with tech doffs and they will indeed be DPS cruisers. excelsior mostly, the regent cant pull it off as well.
I've used that for a while. While the damage is pretty awesome, the problem I've found is that it kills a lot of my aux healing. Also I tend to get easily hounded by escorts. While my escort could take care of one then move onto the other, my cruiser takes far longer to deal with one, with not much difference in tanking ability to my escort.
fleet brel 24750 hull, shield mod .88, 4 eng consoles. yes, it has enhanced BC. 4 eng? really?
That's pretty much what I thought. Seriously, a 4th engineering console on a BoP? About the only real good that will do is enable an extra slot for universal/P2W consoles, which I suppose is nice. Seriously, though, it's a B'Rel with an EBC. It needs a 4th sci or tac console, darnit, it's supposed to focus on torpedoes/mines and sci abilities.
At least we get discounted ships, for once (Varanus makes two), but that only mollifies me slightly. . .especially since these 'discounts' only really mean something if you got the original ship on sale (like, say, getting the B'rel retrofit for 1600 zen instead of 2k, or whatever).
As usual, I don't like the looks of this. Then again, I've never liked the pricing scheme behind the fleet ships, especially with those single-character unlocks.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
As usual, I don't like the looks of this. Then again, I've never liked the pricing scheme behind the fleet ships, especially with those single-character unlocks.
i can only hope they abstain from introducing ANOTHER cross faction uber carrier
BCF and ADR would be bad. It might even kill the FvF queues.
I'm not sure how they could build out the Chel Grett to have that Bug feel - without it being a nightmare for the Feds. CGs running alongside ASD carrier groups. Any hope of not being drained would be gone.
Can definitely see - from a PvE side - where the introduction of certain ships is ubermegaawesome (/cough) for folks - but man oh man... the potential in PvP for certain things - oh well...meh.
By the way, thanks for posting this over here. I've been kind of negligent in my lurking around other areas of the forums (the Omega/Rom grind is driving me away from the game - I'm beginning to wonder whether I should put it on my resume and if doing the grind comes with medical/dental benefits)...
4 tac consoles on Excelsior ? damn....poor Galaxy....if you compare those two ships, it is just hillarious. What about a fleet connie ? with 5 tac consoles and 45k hull and 1,2 shield mod ? :rolleyes: after all, the older the better! Like brandy!
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
4 tac consoles on Excelsior ? damn....poor Galaxy....if you compare those two ships, it is just hillarious. What about a fleet connie ? with 5 tac consoles and 45k hull and 1,2 shield mod ? :rolleyes: after all, the older the better! Like brandy!
its sad because with the huge guns the galaxy should have, in game its primary beams should basically be the vet ship's phaser lotus, only with a slower fire rate.
its sad because with the huge guns the galaxy should have, in game its primary beams should basically be the vet ship's phaser lotus, only with a slower fire rate.
Oh yeah drunk, we need heavy beam arrays and dual torpedo launchers ! :P
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Personally, I find it funny that the B'rel-R got made into a Fleet variant.. making all the other Fleet Varients pretty much even more Obsolete. Why bother with any of the other BoPs when you can just wait to Tier 5 (Or find a KDF fleet at Tier 5) And get one that way. :cool:
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
T5 is a myth :P it's carrot on stick that will last for year or so...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
There is a bait and switch feel to it... as folks hit T5 Fleets; T6 gameplay will have arrived.
Now some might say Cryptic wouldn't do anything like that to their customers... and I might ask in return if this was their first day playing.
Oh yeah, buy advanced heavy cruiser!, buy advanced heavy cruiser retrofit!, buy fleet advanced heavy cruiser retrofit! buy advanced fleet advanced heavy cruiserretrofit! and finally buy elite fleet advanced heavy cruiser retrofit! Let the cow be milked eternally! :rolleyes:
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The two most famous b'rels were science heavy for sure imo. The first one went on the genisis investigation, and the second one managed the the scientifically ridiculous feat of firing while cloaked. Give it a fourth sci console for all the neglected Klink sci's and maybe the shields to last till you can recloak.
On the plus side, you could also use the new console to do what I do, and give as much power to whatever subsystem you think needs it. Why not do your alpha strikes with near-constant 125 weapons energy, or strengthen your sci abilities with more aux power.
I dont see really the problem with the 4th engineering console for the B'rel
In my opinion it makes a cloaked torpedo/mine dropping build even better because its more durable with an additional neutronium alloy.
Imagine this boff setup with the dual AtoB. I stay cloaked all the time, and don't even need shields. 4x neutronium alloys and HE2 cycling with PH3....
LtCmdr tac: Whatever you like
Lt eng: EptA1, AtoB1
Lt Eng: EptS1/ET1, AtoB1
Cmdr sci: Blabla, HE2, PH3, main sci ability (VM?)
I dont see really the problem with the 4th engineering console for the B'rel
In my opinion it makes a cloaked torpedo/mine dropping build even better because its more durable with an additional neutronium alloy.
Imagine this boff setup with the dual AtoB. I stay cloaked all the time, and don't even need shields. 4x neutronium alloys and HE2 cycling with PH3....
LtCmdr tac: Whatever you like
Lt eng: EptA1, AtoB1
Lt Eng: EptS1/ET1, AtoB1
Cmdr sci: Blabla, HE2, PH3, main sci ability (VM?)
The with diminishing returns max hull resists isn't so high that you couldn't run your torp/mine build with 3 eng consoles and basically have the same hull resists as running 4. Assuming you're running things like a mix of he, aux2sif, ph, apd, aux2damp etc you'll have high hull resists. You also would have the option of Hazzard doffs.
You're also forgetting the main defensive benefit of running EBC, when you're exposed and uncloaked from using some Boff powers or weapons you maintain your cloak defense bonus.
In the end Tac would be better for that build since it boosts your mine/torp damage.
Imo, 4th Sci would most likely make your build better as well; since, even if your build doesn't have a Sci skill which could benefit you could always boost your shield buffer and/or even use add in utility console like a biomonitor to keep your crew levels up, or power insulators, or intertial damps, etc.
Also, with the lack of real decent Sci options for KDF a 4 Sci console B'rel would have helped fill that void nicely. This was the worst possible console addition option for the B'rel. I'd have rather they gave the 16k hull ship an EBC and called it the B'rel upgrade tbh.
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Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Personally, I find it funny that the B'rel-R got made into a Fleet variant.. making all the other Fleet Varients pretty much even more Obsolete. Why bother with any of the other BoPs when you can just wait to Tier 5 (Or find a KDF fleet at Tier 5) And get one that way. :cool:
Because the Fleet B'rel, like the C-store variant, is much better used as a Torpedo Platform that is very hard to pin down and kill.
That and I prefer my Fleet Hoh'sus with 4 Tac consoles
However, correct me if I'm wrong, but can you use Science Abilities while using the B'rel's Enhanced Battle Cloak?
The with diminishing returns max hull resists isn't so high that you couldn't run your torp/mine build with 3 eng consoles and basically have the same hull resists as running 4. Assuming you're running things like a mix of he, aux2sif, ph, apd, aux2damp etc you'll have high hull resists. You also would have the option of Hazzard doffs.
You're also forgetting the main defensive benefit of running EBC, when you're exposed and uncloaked from using some Boff powers or weapons you maintain your cloak defense bonus.
In the end Tac would be better for that build since it boosts your mine/torp damage.
Imo, 4th Sci would most likely make your build better as well; since, even if your build doesn't have a Sci skill which could benefit you could always boost your shield buffer and/or even use add in utility console like a biomonitor to keep your crew levels up, or power insulators, or intertial damps, etc.
Also, with the lack of real decent Sci options for KDF a 4 Sci console B'rel would have helped fill that void nicely. This was the worst possible console addition option for the B'rel. I'd have rather they gave the 16k hull ship an EBC and called it the B'rel upgrade tbh.
Exactly, anyone who thinks that a fourth engineering console would add up to a BoP's survival has probably never flown one. Thanks to its low hullpoint value it gets destroyed in seconds when its shields drop, regardless of hull damage reduction. The Fleet B'rel should get a fourth science slot instead of the engineering one.
Exactly, anyone who thinks that a fourth engineering console would add up to a BoP's survival has probably never flown one. Thanks to its low hullpoint value it gets destroyed in seconds when its shields drop, regardless of hull damage reduction. The Fleet B'rel should get a fourth science slot instead of the engineering one.
I've flown BOP's, but not extensively. Mostly because until recently, I never really liked them.
Always preferred Battlecruisers over them.
I'm still not convinced that a 4th engineering console isn't a good thing, but I did request that they take another look at it. Maybe, just maybe, they'll change their mind and give you a 4th science console.
Shouldn't the Varanus get a hull buff or turn buff or at least the same shield mod as the closest CAREBEAR sci! I guess it's nice to get a fleet science, but why the copy paste -0.11?
And why is it that feds get 5 tact console fleet escorts and the KDF doesn't??? But we get TRIBBLE dragging 4 engy console escorts.
Shouldn't the Varanus get a hull buff or turn buff or at least the same shield mod as the closest CAREBEAR sci! I guess it's nice to get a fleet science, but why the copy paste -0.11?
And why is it that feds get 5 tact console fleet escorts and the KDF doesn't??? But we get TRIBBLE dragging 4 engy console escorts.
i double checked and the varanus just comes with 28500 hull in base form, just like the deep space sci. it just has a lower shield mod too, for no reason. even the nebula and vulcan ship have a 1.3 mod with their additional hull.
this poor ship needs DHC use and a hull buff for sure, in fleet and base form
i double checked and the varanus just comes with 28500 hull in base form, just like the deep space sci. it just has a lower shield mod too, for no reason. even the nebula and vulcan ship have a 1.3 mod with their additional hull.
this poor ship needs DHC use and a hull buff for sure, in fleet and base form
Darn Thanks for confirming that. I joined a fleet with tier 3 shipyard unlocked on Tribble with the hope of seeing the Fleet Excelsior at 1 Fleet module, but no luck there, still 5 (yes I own the tier 5 Excelsior). Seems testing these ships may be a little tricky.
Just a thought:
You could try to buy 1 fleet module on holodeck(in the exchange). Copy your character 5 times (if you need 5 modules) and mule them all on one char.
After that you can resell your fleet module on the live server in the exchange for the same price you bought it.
Comments
An escort's main purpose is to deal damage, an engineer increases the amount of time it can do that under focused fire.
A fed cruisers main purpose is to heal, which a tac will not improve one bit.
Also at the end of the day Cruisers need engineers in them to not make them a liability. I know I rub my hands when I see tac!cruiser on the otherteam, since they tend to pop easier then tac!escorts(well bugs anyway), especially when you stick a tractor beam on them.
I've used that for a while. While the damage is pretty awesome, the problem I've found is that it kills a lot of my aux healing. Also I tend to get easily hounded by escorts. While my escort could take care of one then move onto the other, my cruiser takes far longer to deal with one, with not much difference in tanking ability to my escort.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
That's pretty much what I thought. Seriously, a 4th engineering console on a BoP? About the only real good that will do is enable an extra slot for universal/P2W consoles, which I suppose is nice. Seriously, though, it's a B'Rel with an EBC. It needs a 4th sci or tac console, darnit, it's supposed to focus on torpedoes/mines and sci abilities.
At least we get discounted ships, for once (Varanus makes two), but that only mollifies me slightly. . .especially since these 'discounts' only really mean something if you got the original ship on sale (like, say, getting the B'rel retrofit for 1600 zen instead of 2k, or whatever).
As usual, I don't like the looks of this. Then again, I've never liked the pricing scheme behind the fleet ships, especially with those single-character unlocks.
Yup, the fleet ships are a huge scam/rip off.
It'd be kind of funny, if it were a Sarr Theln instead of a Chel Grett. Giving the Feds the Bleth Choas and all that entails...
i can only hope they abstain from introducing ANOTHER cross faction uber carrier
BCF and ADR would be bad. It might even kill the FvF queues.
I'm not sure how they could build out the Chel Grett to have that Bug feel - without it being a nightmare for the Feds. CGs running alongside ASD carrier groups. Any hope of not being drained would be gone.
Can definitely see - from a PvE side - where the introduction of certain ships is ubermegaawesome (/cough) for folks - but man oh man... the potential in PvP for certain things - oh well...meh.
By the way, thanks for posting this over here. I've been kind of negligent in my lurking around other areas of the forums (the Omega/Rom grind is driving me away from the game - I'm beginning to wonder whether I should put it on my resume and if doing the grind comes with medical/dental benefits)...
its sad because with the huge guns the galaxy should have, in game its primary beams should basically be the vet ship's phaser lotus, only with a slower fire rate.
Oh yeah drunk, we need heavy beam arrays and dual torpedo launchers ! :P
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
There is a bait and switch feel to it... as folks hit T5 Fleets; T6 gameplay will have arrived.
Now some might say Cryptic wouldn't do anything like that to their customers... and I might ask in return if this was their first day playing.
Oh yeah, buy advanced heavy cruiser!, buy advanced heavy cruiser retrofit!, buy fleet advanced heavy cruiser retrofit! buy advanced fleet advanced heavy cruiserretrofit! and finally buy elite fleet advanced heavy cruiser retrofit! Let the cow be milked eternally! :rolleyes:
On the plus side, you could also use the new console to do what I do, and give as much power to whatever subsystem you think needs it. Why not do your alpha strikes with near-constant 125 weapons energy, or strengthen your sci abilities with more aux power.
Also buff that sov hp a bit.
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In my opinion it makes a cloaked torpedo/mine dropping build even better because its more durable with an additional neutronium alloy.
Imagine this boff setup with the dual AtoB. I stay cloaked all the time, and don't even need shields. 4x neutronium alloys and HE2 cycling with PH3....
LtCmdr tac: Whatever you like
Lt eng: EptA1, AtoB1
Lt Eng: EptS1/ET1, AtoB1
Cmdr sci: Blabla, HE2, PH3, main sci ability (VM?)
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
The with diminishing returns max hull resists isn't so high that you couldn't run your torp/mine build with 3 eng consoles and basically have the same hull resists as running 4. Assuming you're running things like a mix of he, aux2sif, ph, apd, aux2damp etc you'll have high hull resists. You also would have the option of Hazzard doffs.
You're also forgetting the main defensive benefit of running EBC, when you're exposed and uncloaked from using some Boff powers or weapons you maintain your cloak defense bonus.
In the end Tac would be better for that build since it boosts your mine/torp damage.
Imo, 4th Sci would most likely make your build better as well; since, even if your build doesn't have a Sci skill which could benefit you could always boost your shield buffer and/or even use add in utility console like a biomonitor to keep your crew levels up, or power insulators, or intertial damps, etc.
Also, with the lack of real decent Sci options for KDF a 4 Sci console B'rel would have helped fill that void nicely. This was the worst possible console addition option for the B'rel. I'd have rather they gave the 16k hull ship an EBC and called it the B'rel upgrade tbh.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Because the Fleet B'rel, like the C-store variant, is much better used as a Torpedo Platform that is very hard to pin down and kill.
That and I prefer my Fleet Hoh'sus with 4 Tac consoles
However, correct me if I'm wrong, but can you use Science Abilities while using the B'rel's Enhanced Battle Cloak?
Exactly, anyone who thinks that a fourth engineering console would add up to a BoP's survival has probably never flown one. Thanks to its low hullpoint value it gets destroyed in seconds when its shields drop, regardless of hull damage reduction. The Fleet B'rel should get a fourth science slot instead of the engineering one.
I've flown BOP's, but not extensively. Mostly because until recently, I never really liked them.
Always preferred Battlecruisers over them.
I'm still not convinced that a 4th engineering console isn't a good thing, but I did request that they take another look at it. Maybe, just maybe, they'll change their mind and give you a 4th science console.
Varanus Fleet Support Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.32 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC Sci - LT/Ens Eng - LT Tact
Shouldn't the Varanus get a hull buff or turn buff or at least the same shield mod as the closest CAREBEAR sci! I guess it's nice to get a fleet science, but why the copy paste -0.11?
And why is it that feds get 5 tact console fleet escorts and the KDF doesn't??? But we get TRIBBLE dragging 4 engy console escorts.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i double checked and the varanus just comes with 28500 hull in base form, just like the deep space sci. it just has a lower shield mod too, for no reason. even the nebula and vulcan ship have a 1.3 mod with their additional hull.
this poor ship needs DHC use and a hull buff for sure, in fleet and base form
NAME/HULL/Turn/shield mod/Consoles (eng/sci/tact) - boff (Science/Eng/Tact/Uni)
Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.43 - 3/5/2 - CMDR/LTC Science - LT/Ens ENG - LT Tact
Fleet Research Science Vessel retrofit - 28050 - 13 - 1.22 - 4/4/2 - CMDR/LT/Ens Science - LTC ENG - LT Tact
*Research Science Vessel retrofit - 25500 - 13 - 1.1 - 3/4/2 - CMDR/LT/Ens Science - LTC ENG - LT Tact
Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel - 29700 - 13 - 1.43 - 2/4/4 - CMDR/LTC Science - LT ENG- LT/Ens Tact
Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retro - 34650 - 9 - 1.43 - 4/4/2 - CMDR/Ens Science - LTC Eng - LT Tact - LT Uni
Fleet Science Vessel Refit - 27390 - 15 - 1.11 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LT/Ens Sci - LT Eng - LTC Tact
*Science Vessel Refit - 24900 - 15 - 1.01 - 2/4/3 - CMDR/LTC SCi - LT Eng - LT/Ens Tact
Fleet Long Range Sci vessel refit - 29700 - 12 - 1.43 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC/Ens Sci - LT Eng - LT Tact
Varanus Fleet Support Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.32 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC Sci - LT/Ens Eng - LT Tact
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just a thought:
You could try to buy 1 fleet module on holodeck(in the exchange). Copy your character 5 times (if you need 5 modules) and mule them all on one char.
After that you can resell your fleet module on the live server in the exchange for the same price you bought it.
Now I haven't tried that, but it might work.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!