A complete and utter waste of time for no reward worth mentioning. Insanely difficult, under no circumstances must this be attempted with pugs, as they will TRIBBLE it up royally. Even with well equipped ships its almost impossible. Who the hell thought that regen spheres should spawn so often? And who thought they should regen the plasma bolts? Dumbest idea i have ever seen. Well done Cryptic, another top idea... Bunch of merchant bankers.
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The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts! Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible! The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!
Let me start by saying this: I love the very premise of Hive Onslaught. I think the idea of going to Unimatrix 01 is really really REALLY cool. However...I think the idea of going into the HEART of all Borg activity in the GALAXY is really really REALLY stupid, given the current way this STF works and how it ends.
Here is my gripe with this STF, and I am sure other people might agree with me: On Elite difficulty...this STF is very difficult...sometimes, it is too difficult. Think about this for a second...
As opposed to the other three STFs (strictly speaking on Elite Mode) Cure, Khitomer, and Infected (otherwise now known as Cure, Vortex, and Conduit respectfully) are acceptably difficult. The original three each have special tricks and tactics that experienced players are aware of (10% method, etc). From what I can tell, and from what I have seen...there is really no other tactic to Onslaught other than "Don't die".
However, the lack of a decent tactic is not the core of the problem. I can do the "don't die" tactic. However this tactic works against steep odds, at best. Not dying becomes very difficult when 6 tactical cubes and several spheres are spawn camping. In fact...I just had to quit this STF because there was no way to re-spawn. We even tried all re spawning at the same time, and we were butchered. No matter how long we waited, The Cubes never flew away...they simply sat there, waiting for us.
I have beaten this STF (prior to the Nov 21st patch)...and I can say that the rewards rendered upon the player ARE NOT WORTH IT considering the fact I can get the exact same rewards for beating any of the original STFs with the added bonus of investing less time, and no quitting penalty, and low failure rate.
So I am forced to ask: What is the point of playing an excessively hard STF when I can earn the same rewards on an easier STF?
Why should I even play Onslaught? As far as I am concerned, there is no good reason to...unless either the rules of that STF are changed, or the rewards are significantly increased.
So what could be done to make this unbearable and annoying STF more fun or more worth it? There are a few ideas...
Increase the endgame reward. 960 dil is not enough of an incentive to get me into this stupid STF. double, or even triple that number, perhaps 2 BNPs, and 100+ omega marks...then talk to me. If you are going to create an annoying STF with 6 spawn camping tactical cubes, and a cooldown timer of 60 minutes upon successful completion (or STF quitter penalty of 60 minutes)...I better have a huge reward waiting for me at the end of that time investment / risk.
Increase the player count from 5 to 10. Lets face it...if the Federation and the KDF are going to send a team into the heart of the collective...give them the numbers to back up the message being sent. If the number of players was bumped up, the rewards can remain as they are, but the good guys will have more firepower on their side.
Dump those tactical cubes and turn them into regular cubes. If you refuse to increase the rewards, and you refuse to give us more people, then nerf the enemy.
Reduce the number of tactical cubes. Give me a break...six tactical cubes and several spheres backing them up...tone it down. Either throw them at us in waves or simply reduce how many tactical cubes and spheres there are.
Give us some AI support. At the very least...provide us with some AI support. 5 or so RANDOM AI ships from both KDF and Federation warping in at fixed intervals might help tip the scales a bit.
Now, each of these ideas might seem interesting to some, bogus to others...but if you ask me, Onslaught, as it is now, is just one of those things I don't touch.
For the record...I have not even touched the ground scenario (I don't personally like ground combat so don't even ask what I think about that. I try to avoid it.).
So Devs, if you are reading this...consider taking a second look at what is being thrown at us in Onslaught.
I dunno if there is anyone out there who thinks Onslaught is a little broken or not. There might be people out there who think like I do. Some people may like it the way it is. I am sure with the right team it can be done because, like I said, I have beaten it once. Perhaps I am just unlucky, getting ships / players who lack effective STF equipment and weapons to get the job done. Perhaps I am getting bad ship combos...I dunno...but I do know this: Even when I have bad ship combos, and new STF players in the original three scenarios...we can pull off a victory. I cannot say the same for Onslaught.
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I agree, the STF is insane right now. However, I only believe they should increase the reward, not make it easier.
My reason for this is simple, the reputation rewards does make things easier. When everyone is buffed from getting to Tier 5, we might stand more of a chance. Then the increased reward will make sense - so those that have invested the time to get to Tier 5 will be able to more realistically go for the increased reward.
There is nothing wrong with this STF except the reward
The reward should be 3 neural processors and
3000 dilithium maybe 240 omega marks
To equal the difficulty
This will be a insane pug to beat but a planned
Out team will beat it
Tetyron energy weapons Aoe attacks ts3
Tranphasic torpedoes
Many options for effective team loadouts will
Win this
Brute force anchor and fire won't
Don't draw the Borg to your spawn point !
Don't attack them head on from the spawn point !
Use skill and Tactics
The Borg are fine the problem lies I'n a differnt
Place
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I will do you the courtesy of not calling you a wimp since you didn't ask for a blanket nerf of Borg cuz they're too strong to handle. However I must disagree. If anything, I think the Borg aren't nearly strong enough in that mission. You are in Unimatrix 01. The center of the Borg hive, the place where all the shots in this galaxy are called (I say this galaxy because I don't know if the Borg have spread to others lol). So... yeah, naturally there will be hellishly powerful defenses in place. And the Borg will cheat. You are at their core. If they don't cheat, then they aren't doing their job.
You provided good pointers. But here's a thought. This is an add-on STF. Nobody is forcing you to play it. It's there for those who want the immense challenge of combating the Borg on their home territory. Beating that mission if more for bragging rights than the rewards. STF rewards are a joke now anyways, I do them for extra dil, to pass the time, or just to play with friends. There are much easier ways to farm dil, and there are much easier ways to play this game. But Hive Onslaught? It's a vanity fair at best. And again, it's only there for those who really want a challenge.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
So I am forced to ask: What is the point of playing an excessively hard STF when I can earn the same rewards on an easier STF?
You just outlined why the ability to run CGE or IGE will become a lost art: there's no point. If you really love ground, KAGE is faster, easier and nearly unfailable. When each mission has a less-than-1 chance to drop a specific item that you needed for a set, every one of them was relevant to every player trying to complete that set. Now there's no reason to run any but the easiest missions.
Same goes for other missions too, by the way. When the Daily missions gave a nice chunk of dil for doing, say, Breaking the Planet, joining a match on KDF side wasn't that difficult. Then they took away the dil and last time I tried doing that mission I waited in the queue for half an hour before it started. There's just no POINT anymore so people don't want to play it.
If anything, I think the Borg aren't nearly strong enough in that mission. You are in Unimatrix 01. So... yeah, naturally there will be hellishly powerful defenses in place. And the Borg will cheat. You are at their core. If they don't cheat, then they aren't doing their job.
Which is why they would send about 50 ships, not 5. If you'd like to give us 45 NPC allies flying battleships and heavy cruisers as would be the sane deployment given the strategic value of the target and its expected defenses, that would certainly affect the difficulty.
I don't know, I'd like a better reward but difficulty? I know they increased the artificial difficulty but the actual difficulty on Tribble was actually fun, I ran it with a team of 2 eng, 2 tac and 1 sci and we sailed through it with no hardship at all, it's wonderful what a little cross-healing and co-ordination can do. I think they should tone down the artificial difficulty so that 2 ship healing eachother don't get demolished when the borg look their way but that it, oh and maybe increase the real difficulty to compensate
Lets wait until they readjust the Borg, since apparently they are aware they are doing more damage then intended across the board, and then we can look at Hive.
Personally, I wouldn't change a thing about the difficulty, but I can definitely see upping the rewards.
It's fine the way it is. It's hard. It SHOULD BE. This is the damn Borg, Your not playing with a bunch of kittens. The Borg are supposed to be the baddest of the baddest. They should be leaving you crying after a match. People often ***** about how non Trek STO is, how non canon everything is. Well guess what The Borg Whooping all your asses is as Canon as it gets. They are not supposed to be push overs, they are supposed to make you finish the fight barely alive and limping home heroes. How many Ships does typically one Cube Wreck in Canon. Five Tac cubes alone should make you cry for reinforcements! I do agree that more NPC's should be involved in that Fight, Hell it should be a 20 man mission with the strategic importance of it. Those Tac cubes should be ripping people apart and bringing tons of Whining Crying babies to the forums Raging about how the Borg are as tough as the BORG are supposed to BE! Not everything in the game should feel like we are against a bunch of pakleds.
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Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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You just outlined why the ability to run CGE or IGE will become a lost art: there's no point. If you really love ground, KAGE is faster, easier and nearly unfailable. When each mission has a less-than-1 chance to drop a specific item that you needed for a set, every one of them was relevant to every player trying to complete that set. Now there's no reason to run any but the easiest missions.
Same goes for other missions too, by the way. When the Daily missions gave a nice chunk of dil for doing, say, Breaking the Planet, joining a match on KDF side wasn't that difficult. Then they took away the dil and last time I tried doing that mission I waited in the queue for half an hour before it started. There's just no POINT anymore so people don't want to play it.
+1 for this post. This sums up what bothered me the most since launch of S7. Most of the STFs have become pointless to play. They need to insert some special reward for completing them, one that makes it worth playing them multiple times.
I think the award should be more satisfying than it is now for Onslaught.
I disagree the OP is saying it's too difficult. It's challenging, that's for sure! There's one more rule, besides 'Don't Die' and that is simply put: don't cause a God Damn Holy Aggro! (like FAW/CSF).
Consider every tac cube as a task force, so focus on a single cube and it's sphere guards, then move on to the next. Stay together. Try to focus as a team at one target at the time. One tac cube + it's sphere guards, then move on to the next group.
Oh and yes... tric mines does help
I haven't seen that the cubes are spawn camping (lol), but if so, that should be avoided/fixed.
I love some of the stuff in this thread because I agree with just about all of it. From what I can tell...quite a few people like the notion of increasing the reward for a harder STF over the other STFs.
Anyone here who says that The Borg SHOULD be tough and dangerous...I totally agree, I will never disagree. If you recall in my OP...I never called for the Borg STATS to be nerfed, just for their numbers to be nerfed. This can be done in waves, or simply turn some of those tac cubes into regular cubes. Don't nerf stats, just nerf numbers and deployment. If this STF had more waves, it gives the same feeling of lots of Borg ships at hand, but makes the combat more manageable.
Now, Anyone here who says we should have more ships at hand (some NPCs, 10 player, 20 player) I also agree with this. In the canon of Star Trek...a single cube demanded a response of like...roughly 40 starships. This is The Borg...they demand a powerful response. If we are gonna stay true to the canon, then send more ships.
I think the award should be more satisfying than it is now for Onslaught.
I disagree the OP is saying it's too difficult. It's challenging, that's for sure! There's one more rule, besides 'Don't Die' and that is simply put: don't cause a God Damn Holy Aggro! (like FAW/CSF).
Consider every tac cube as a task force, so focus on a single cube and it's sphere guards, then move on to the next. Stay together. Try to focus as a team at one target at the time. One tac cube + it's sphere guards, then move on to the next group.
Oh and yes... tric mines does help
I haven't seen that the cubes are spawn camping (lol), but if so, that should be avoided/fixed.
Funny you should say this. You see...I have threat generation on my ship...and I have observed on a few instances, but not all, that if I get within firing range of the closest cube, they will ALL start to move. So...riddle me this...what then? They will all become aggro and there is nothing you can do about it. This would be a good argument for fighting in waves, as opposed to all of the Borg forces sitting there and waiting.
I like the comments in this thread thus far, a lot of stuff I can relate to.
I like a challenge, because I know more challenge means more reward. It is why I play Elite. I get more rewards for more strategic and intelligent play, as it is these two things which allows someone to win on harder difficulties. I challenge myself for better rewards. If I know the extra challenge does not translate to better rewards...I see no point, and I am sure others feel that way to.
The Devs do need to take another look at this STF. Don't touch the stats, the stats are fine. I like how tough the individual ships are...I just wanna see more either more reward OR more ships.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
yeah he is right!!!! me and my fleet did that stf right after season 7 started.....we did the optional almost right at the first time! but the second part is really heavy....dieing along is lame....and also....whats the point of having loots added if the loots are trash?? what about adding loots which are worth it?
It's not really hard, it just requires to be organized. It's definitely not designed to be kirked. You also need one or two good healers and it's fine. A good team can complete it in 15-20 minutes or so.
I could use better rewards (although I don't ask for them) but nerfing it would really be a pity. If you don't like challenges don't play it, infected space "elite" has been designed for you. :P
Man, Hive Space Elite is awesome, and sits at the right balance between difficulty and teamwork- and it's a very fun mission that wouldn't be nearly as fun if it were easier. If I want to mow through borg like they're tissue paper I'll go to Kerrat and jump instances.
I do agree however that as a long and teamwork requiring STF, its rewards should definitely be buffed- and in general that the borg are Boss enemies. So none of this dropping green or white trash drops.
The suggestion of 240 marks, 3 neural processors, and 1500 dilithium sounds pretty ideal, given the difficulty of the mission, as well as increasing the chance that these very strong, very high level borg will drop blue or purple items, and not drop green or common items.
I know that in the 'upcoming changes', dStahl promised that the loot rolls at the end of the STFs would be returning- which I think is a great idea. I'd like to suggest, however, that rather than there being an 'optional pot' of extra gear that need or greeds its way into the hands of one player on the team while nobody else gets it, that you look into having each completed optional add an additional roll on the loot table.
The difficulty of the mission (elite vs normal) should affect not only the quality of the items (XI and XII vs IX and X), but perhaps the number. Normal STFs get 3 rolls at the end, +1 per optional completed. Elites get 4, +1 per optional completed.
Then add some extra optionals to the other STFs- Khitomer Accords is ideal, 'cause you can stick optionals like 'defeat donatra in time limit' on pretty easily.
Thusly, a team completing an STF on elite difficulty, with three optionals completed, would have SEVEN rolls on the loot table, per participating player.
This way, all players have an incentive to get the optional, because it directly impacts how much loot they get, rather than only 'potentially impacting', with players with good luck getting all the drops and players with bad luck getting none.
Moreover, this system would encourage teamwork and players learning the strategies for the mission before trying it on elite difficulty- because on 'normal' you could still get a total of six rolls on the loot table- but you wouldn't get the neural processors, 1500 dilithium, or 240 marks that you'd get on elite.
It's fine the way it is. It's hard. It SHOULD BE. This is the damn Borg, Your not playing with a bunch of kittens. The Borg are supposed to be the baddest of the baddest. They should be leaving you crying after a match. People often ***** about how non Trek STO is, how non canon everything is. Well guess what The Borg Whooping all your asses is as Canon as it gets. They are not supposed to be push overs, they are supposed to make you finish the fight barely alive and limping home heroes. How many Ships does typically one Cube Wreck in Canon. Five Tac cubes alone should make you cry for reinforcements! I do agree that more NPC's should be involved in that Fight, Hell it should be a 20 man mission with the strategic importance of it. Those Tac cubes should be ripping people apart and bringing tons of Whining Crying babies to the forums Raging about how the Borg are as tough as the BORG are supposed to BE! Not everything in the game should feel like we are against a bunch of pakleds.
Give this man a medal.
And I agree. The Borg are supposed to slaughter you. And HOE is designed to be the hardest STF out there. Sooooo yeah. It's hard. Duh. It needs teamwork. Duh. You can't just faceroll it. Duh.
Bleh.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
For the second stage, I like that there's a buff when you're 'under the guns', it's helpful to know. The shielded diamond also provides line-of-sight from the opposite Borg Gherkin.
Having a designated player call targets, either by macro or plain old targeting-their-target helps immensely too. This happens more often than not in somewhat prearranged teams of folks who know what they're doing, anyway - usually the target is the Borg ship with several subsytems afflicted by debuffs with corresponding coloured circles all over it, however pugs seem to be colourblind, and attack randomly.
I'll agree with everyone else: Onslaught isn't broken, it's fine. The rewards, however, don't match the challenge. Consider that I could do Infected and Khitomer in the same amount of time at far less difficulty, aside from the actual challenge of doing, why should I?
Before Season 7, my group would run round robin through the space STFs almost daily. It was fun, and we got damn good at it, more often than not getting the optional in all three. Some of it was for dilithium. often was for prototype gear, usually it was just for fun. But each one had a purpose, that prototype gear. It was valuable, hard to get, and took several playthroughs to achieve. If it wasn't so damn random, each was a worthy reward for a job well done.
The rewards now? All the same. Identical. I get the same thing out of Infected as I do out of Onslaught. The added challenge is nice, if chaotic, but Infected is SO much easier and quicker, why do them? Hell, I haven't done a Cure space since season 7 started, and likely never will (Cure Space Elite was the hardest of the batch). Why? No reason to. Again, Khitomer and Infected are easier, quicker, and give the same rewards. I can easily see Onslaught falling by the wayside in the same way. The only reason to play it is for the challenge, and for a time that will work. Eventually though, people will stop doing it.
The best option, I think, would be to teir the rewards based on the STF's actual difficulty, with Cure and Onslaught being much greater than Infected and Khitomer. Make the reward worthy of the challenge and complaints like that of the original poster will fade away.
I know there is a method but all I see is madness.
Agreed about the rewards. The Borg are gonna be taking a hit soon, true, but regardless, the rewards are lacking.
Take No Win Scenario. Some folks recently beat that, and they got an TRIBBLE-load of fleet marks for it in total. I'm not saying this should be on an equal level to NWS, just more worth the time and skill it actually takes to do this. At the very least, extra Neural Processors and Marks.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I like this stf as it is... hard, much more hard then older stf. I think the game must offers some very difficult mission because fun is also trying something very hard. However this mission is not impossible, just a perfect is difficult not completing the mission.
I agree only with the idea of a better reward... I think every optional should give some more reward: items and/or dilithium... and a perfect should grant a purple or blue mk XII item to every player.
No others changes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
So I am forced to ask: What is the point of playing an excessively hard STF when I can earn the same rewards on an easier STF?
challenge. to be fair, we have been asking Cryptic for more challenging scenarios, now we got it.
imo the only thing they need to fix is the oneshot (invisible) kills, and every stf is fixed for good.
however as I see, they ignore this only one request of mine (ours?) I have to agree with the OP, it is not worth playing this STF
All you people complain while if you took the time to read dev blogs you allready knew elite where for the best !!!
You win slight more dilithium and you earn some more xp because your on elite !!!
Well if you can't beat it try normal build up new tactics before you enter elite or do not play on elite at all just keep it normal you might have to do few stfs more but the rewards stay the same for all people !!! So stop complaining and start to enjoy it !!
Greets
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Done this stf with optional from the first try with premade team (5 escorts and 1 odyssey) .Its pretty easy and me and a friend died once because ....well we were chatting
thats why I (and most people) play ISE for the same "reward" .
Yep, they should nerf the reward on ISE
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Nah, just kidding. The rewards should stay the same for all STF's. If they nerf ISE or buff CSE than more people with low skills would try CSE.
People, for the love of anything that may be remotely holy, please, PLEASE take out the regeneration probes when they appear in the "Under the Guns" portion of the STF. It's as if people have never played a Red Alert before.:mad:
End of rant.
Thank you for your attention.
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
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What the so called experienced players forgot about is to get the tier 3 and tier 4 maco or omega uniform unlock you have to complete ALL optionals on elite, and that includes the hive onslaught.
Just did this two nights ago, first time out, on Elite. (No normal run version, prior.) Died only four times, didn't aggro far too much, but even still, had few problems, other than just dealing with the endurance of it all. Didn't het the optional, but meh, wasn't worried about that.
Call all that, what you will. Course I was used to the other STF space elites, and did the Birg invasion alerts so much, I got the 'This Far, No Fatrher' title, so... call it, what you will. I kinda actually prefer this one, over CSE. No pressure to worry about an NPC dying, that is for sure.
Plus, hearing the actual Borg Queen's voice... smexy.
Comments
A complete and utter waste of time for no reward worth mentioning. Insanely difficult, under no circumstances must this be attempted with pugs, as they will TRIBBLE it up royally. Even with well equipped ships its almost impossible. Who the hell thought that regen spheres should spawn so often? And who thought they should regen the plasma bolts? Dumbest idea i have ever seen. Well done Cryptic, another top idea... Bunch of merchant bankers.
The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts!
Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible!
The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!
Here is my gripe with this STF, and I am sure other people might agree with me: On Elite difficulty...this STF is very difficult...sometimes, it is too difficult. Think about this for a second...
As opposed to the other three STFs (strictly speaking on Elite Mode) Cure, Khitomer, and Infected (otherwise now known as Cure, Vortex, and Conduit respectfully) are acceptably difficult. The original three each have special tricks and tactics that experienced players are aware of (10% method, etc). From what I can tell, and from what I have seen...there is really no other tactic to Onslaught other than "Don't die".
However, the lack of a decent tactic is not the core of the problem. I can do the "don't die" tactic. However this tactic works against steep odds, at best. Not dying becomes very difficult when 6 tactical cubes and several spheres are spawn camping. In fact...I just had to quit this STF because there was no way to re-spawn. We even tried all re spawning at the same time, and we were butchered. No matter how long we waited, The Cubes never flew away...they simply sat there, waiting for us.
I have beaten this STF (prior to the Nov 21st patch)...and I can say that the rewards rendered upon the player ARE NOT WORTH IT considering the fact I can get the exact same rewards for beating any of the original STFs with the added bonus of investing less time, and no quitting penalty, and low failure rate.
So I am forced to ask: What is the point of playing an excessively hard STF when I can earn the same rewards on an easier STF?
Why should I even play Onslaught? As far as I am concerned, there is no good reason to...unless either the rules of that STF are changed, or the rewards are significantly increased.
So what could be done to make this unbearable and annoying STF more fun or more worth it? There are a few ideas...
Now, each of these ideas might seem interesting to some, bogus to others...but if you ask me, Onslaught, as it is now, is just one of those things I don't touch.
For the record...I have not even touched the ground scenario (I don't personally like ground combat so don't even ask what I think about that. I try to avoid it.).
So Devs, if you are reading this...consider taking a second look at what is being thrown at us in Onslaught.
I dunno if there is anyone out there who thinks Onslaught is a little broken or not. There might be people out there who think like I do. Some people may like it the way it is. I am sure with the right team it can be done because, like I said, I have beaten it once. Perhaps I am just unlucky, getting ships / players who lack effective STF equipment and weapons to get the job done. Perhaps I am getting bad ship combos...I dunno...but I do know this: Even when I have bad ship combos, and new STF players in the original three scenarios...we can pull off a victory. I cannot say the same for Onslaught.
My reason for this is simple, the reputation rewards does make things easier. When everyone is buffed from getting to Tier 5, we might stand more of a chance. Then the increased reward will make sense - so those that have invested the time to get to Tier 5 will be able to more realistically go for the increased reward.
Either that, or as you say, nerf the insane Borg
It's just that most people for some reason insist on going in close from the second they can, aggroing more than one cube at a time.
If done properly, this missions isn't hard at all, but for some reason, everyone insist on poking as many borg at once as possible.
The reward should be 3 neural processors and
3000 dilithium maybe 240 omega marks
To equal the difficulty
This will be a insane pug to beat but a planned
Out team will beat it
Tetyron energy weapons Aoe attacks ts3
Tranphasic torpedoes
Many options for effective team loadouts will
Win this
Brute force anchor and fire won't
Don't draw the Borg to your spawn point !
Don't attack them head on from the spawn point !
Use skill and Tactics
The Borg are fine the problem lies I'n a differnt
Place
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
You provided good pointers. But here's a thought. This is an add-on STF. Nobody is forcing you to play it. It's there for those who want the immense challenge of combating the Borg on their home territory. Beating that mission if more for bragging rights than the rewards. STF rewards are a joke now anyways, I do them for extra dil, to pass the time, or just to play with friends. There are much easier ways to farm dil, and there are much easier ways to play this game. But Hive Onslaught? It's a vanity fair at best. And again, it's only there for those who really want a challenge.
You just outlined why the ability to run CGE or IGE will become a lost art: there's no point. If you really love ground, KAGE is faster, easier and nearly unfailable. When each mission has a less-than-1 chance to drop a specific item that you needed for a set, every one of them was relevant to every player trying to complete that set. Now there's no reason to run any but the easiest missions.
Same goes for other missions too, by the way. When the Daily missions gave a nice chunk of dil for doing, say, Breaking the Planet, joining a match on KDF side wasn't that difficult. Then they took away the dil and last time I tried doing that mission I waited in the queue for half an hour before it started. There's just no POINT anymore so people don't want to play it.
Which is why they would send about 50 ships, not 5. If you'd like to give us 45 NPC allies flying battleships and heavy cruisers as would be the sane deployment given the strategic value of the target and its expected defenses, that would certainly affect the difficulty.
Personally, I wouldn't change a thing about the difficulty, but I can definitely see upping the rewards.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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+1 for this post. This sums up what bothered me the most since launch of S7. Most of the STFs have become pointless to play. They need to insert some special reward for completing them, one that makes it worth playing them multiple times.
I disagree the OP is saying it's too difficult. It's challenging, that's for sure! There's one more rule, besides 'Don't Die' and that is simply put: don't cause a God Damn Holy Aggro! (like FAW/CSF).
Consider every tac cube as a task force, so focus on a single cube and it's sphere guards, then move on to the next. Stay together. Try to focus as a team at one target at the time. One tac cube + it's sphere guards, then move on to the next group.
Oh and yes... tric mines does help
I haven't seen that the cubes are spawn camping (lol), but if so, that should be avoided/fixed.
Anyone here who says that The Borg SHOULD be tough and dangerous...I totally agree, I will never disagree. If you recall in my OP...I never called for the Borg STATS to be nerfed, just for their numbers to be nerfed. This can be done in waves, or simply turn some of those tac cubes into regular cubes. Don't nerf stats, just nerf numbers and deployment. If this STF had more waves, it gives the same feeling of lots of Borg ships at hand, but makes the combat more manageable.
Now, Anyone here who says we should have more ships at hand (some NPCs, 10 player, 20 player) I also agree with this. In the canon of Star Trek...a single cube demanded a response of like...roughly 40 starships. This is The Borg...they demand a powerful response. If we are gonna stay true to the canon, then send more ships.
Funny you should say this. You see...I have threat generation on my ship...and I have observed on a few instances, but not all, that if I get within firing range of the closest cube, they will ALL start to move. So...riddle me this...what then? They will all become aggro and there is nothing you can do about it. This would be a good argument for fighting in waves, as opposed to all of the Borg forces sitting there and waiting.
I like the comments in this thread thus far, a lot of stuff I can relate to.
I like a challenge, because I know more challenge means more reward. It is why I play Elite. I get more rewards for more strategic and intelligent play, as it is these two things which allows someone to win on harder difficulties. I challenge myself for better rewards. If I know the extra challenge does not translate to better rewards...I see no point, and I am sure others feel that way to.
The Devs do need to take another look at this STF. Don't touch the stats, the stats are fine. I like how tough the individual ships are...I just wanna see more either more reward OR more ships.
I could use better rewards (although I don't ask for them) but nerfing it would really be a pity. If you don't like challenges don't play it, infected space "elite" has been designed for you. :P
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I do agree however that as a long and teamwork requiring STF, its rewards should definitely be buffed- and in general that the borg are Boss enemies. So none of this dropping green or white trash drops.
The suggestion of 240 marks, 3 neural processors, and 1500 dilithium sounds pretty ideal, given the difficulty of the mission, as well as increasing the chance that these very strong, very high level borg will drop blue or purple items, and not drop green or common items.
I know that in the 'upcoming changes', dStahl promised that the loot rolls at the end of the STFs would be returning- which I think is a great idea. I'd like to suggest, however, that rather than there being an 'optional pot' of extra gear that need or greeds its way into the hands of one player on the team while nobody else gets it, that you look into having each completed optional add an additional roll on the loot table.
The difficulty of the mission (elite vs normal) should affect not only the quality of the items (XI and XII vs IX and X), but perhaps the number. Normal STFs get 3 rolls at the end, +1 per optional completed. Elites get 4, +1 per optional completed.
Then add some extra optionals to the other STFs- Khitomer Accords is ideal, 'cause you can stick optionals like 'defeat donatra in time limit' on pretty easily.
Thusly, a team completing an STF on elite difficulty, with three optionals completed, would have SEVEN rolls on the loot table, per participating player.
This way, all players have an incentive to get the optional, because it directly impacts how much loot they get, rather than only 'potentially impacting', with players with good luck getting all the drops and players with bad luck getting none.
Moreover, this system would encourage teamwork and players learning the strategies for the mission before trying it on elite difficulty- because on 'normal' you could still get a total of six rolls on the loot table- but you wouldn't get the neural processors, 1500 dilithium, or 240 marks that you'd get on elite.
Give this man a medal.
And I agree. The Borg are supposed to slaughter you. And HOE is designed to be the hardest STF out there. Sooooo yeah. It's hard. Duh. It needs teamwork. Duh. You can't just faceroll it. Duh.
Bleh.
Having a designated player call targets, either by macro or plain old targeting-their-target helps immensely too. This happens more often than not in somewhat prearranged teams of folks who know what they're doing, anyway - usually the target is the Borg ship with several subsytems afflicted by debuffs with corresponding coloured circles all over it, however pugs seem to be colourblind, and attack randomly.
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Before Season 7, my group would run round robin through the space STFs almost daily. It was fun, and we got damn good at it, more often than not getting the optional in all three. Some of it was for dilithium. often was for prototype gear, usually it was just for fun. But each one had a purpose, that prototype gear. It was valuable, hard to get, and took several playthroughs to achieve. If it wasn't so damn random, each was a worthy reward for a job well done.
The rewards now? All the same. Identical. I get the same thing out of Infected as I do out of Onslaught. The added challenge is nice, if chaotic, but Infected is SO much easier and quicker, why do them? Hell, I haven't done a Cure space since season 7 started, and likely never will (Cure Space Elite was the hardest of the batch). Why? No reason to. Again, Khitomer and Infected are easier, quicker, and give the same rewards. I can easily see Onslaught falling by the wayside in the same way. The only reason to play it is for the challenge, and for a time that will work. Eventually though, people will stop doing it.
The best option, I think, would be to teir the rewards based on the STF's actual difficulty, with Cure and Onslaught being much greater than Infected and Khitomer. Make the reward worthy of the challenge and complaints like that of the original poster will fade away.
Take No Win Scenario. Some folks recently beat that, and they got an TRIBBLE-load of fleet marks for it in total. I'm not saying this should be on an equal level to NWS, just more worth the time and skill it actually takes to do this. At the very least, extra Neural Processors and Marks.
I agree only with the idea of a better reward... I think every optional should give some more reward: items and/or dilithium... and a perfect should grant a purple or blue mk XII item to every player.
No others changes.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
challenge. to be fair, we have been asking Cryptic for more challenging scenarios, now we got it.
imo the only thing they need to fix is the oneshot (invisible) kills, and every stf is fixed for good.
however as I see, they ignore this only one request of mine (ours?) I have to agree with the OP, it is not worth playing this STF
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
You win slight more dilithium and you earn some more xp because your on elite !!!
Well if you can't beat it try normal build up new tactics before you enter elite or do not play on elite at all just keep it normal you might have to do few stfs more but the rewards stay the same for all people !!! So stop complaining and start to enjoy it !!
Greets
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
@kirk2390
Elite may be for the best but the rewards are for the worst :rolleyes:
thats why I (and most people) play ISE for the same "reward" .
Yep, they should nerf the reward on ISE
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Nah, just kidding. The rewards should stay the same for all STF's. If they nerf ISE or buff CSE than more people with low skills would try CSE.
End of rant.
Thank you for your attention.
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Call all that, what you will. Course I was used to the other STF space elites, and did the Birg invasion alerts so much, I got the 'This Far, No Fatrher' title, so... call it, what you will. I kinda actually prefer this one, over CSE. No pressure to worry about an NPC dying, that is for sure.
Plus, hearing the actual Borg Queen's voice... smexy.