While I was doing something else, I realized something about the borg now that they have full 360 arcs. They can now fire 2 torpedoes per salvo, which causes the damage and plasma DoT to stack up.
Let this be a lesson NEVER to stealth buff or nerf without testing. Read: Don't stealth. You guys tweaked the Borg and now the chickens are coming home to roost. This "i don't know WHAT happened"-nonsense is just that.
I got one-shot by a plasma torp from the gate in ISE. Gates don't have high-yield torps which can be subnuced or shot down, so there's no way to avoid the damage. I had half a shield facing left and was killed through that + 100% hull.
Tactical Cube deals 139395 (214387) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III.
I always hover at over 9 km and watch out for incoming projectiles. Did not see this or the dozen ones like it in previous STF's coming. I never do, and it's becoming less and less likely that my otherwise normal eyesight is mysteriously failing at exactly the worst possible moment time after time.
If it's a graphical issue, fixing that alone would go a long way. Whether having such instakill torps in the first place is justified, that's a different matter and I can't say I'd be opposed to reducing their damage (or scaling it to be a percentage of your total hitpoints) but a means to counter is an absolute necessity.
There is always going to be a very good chance that an incoming High Yield Plasma torpedo will kill you outright, if it was fired from a Cube or Tac Cube. This is as designed, because they are easily countered by destroying them before they reach the intended target. They can also be outran, by using powers that increase your speed (like Evasive Maneuvers, e.g.).
I've performed extensive testing of targetable torpedo types, alongside our FX team, to ensure that they are not subject to the same FX drop-off issues that cause the infamous "Invisible Torpedo" -- it simply does not happen. This is because the shiny, glowy green HY Plasma balls are not FX, they are Costumes. They will not turn invis, they will not drop off because of excessive particle visuals going off in your vicinity. They may become difficult to see because of FX clutter, but I can guarantee that they are not invisible.
Torpedo Spreads - that's another issue altogether, and one that is currently under review for further tweaking.
The FX drop-off issue in general is something we've been seeking a tech fix for, for a long time now. It was brought to the forefront of our concerns when we rolled out the 20-man Starbase Defense events/missions, and saw it in full swing even in skirmishes taking place on the outlying areas of the map. There is no quick fix for this issue, and it's something we continue to struggle to overcome. The best we can offer at this time, is that it's a limitation we are aware of, and that we do our best to work with when creating and tuning content and encounters.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Cryptic Cryptic Cryptic...learn how to balance a game thats actually fun. One shot kills are the laziest programming ever. And NOT FAIR!
I know other species have them but this is mainly talking about the Borg. You want to make them as tough as Wolf 359? Ok, Im good with that. Make Tactical Cubes as tough as Wolf 359, needing at least 4 strong ships or 5 average ships to take down one after 4+ minutes. Make average cubes go down with 3 strong ships and 4 average.
But the one shotting is ridiculous. STOP IT NOW! Heres my ideas to replace Borg one shot weaponry. Make Borg weapons more science in nature, and make having a science ship in the fleet to counter those weapons very valuable without it needing to have antiproton weaponry.
Space idea #1: Death Ray. Something like the Planet Killer, that can go through 100% shields and drop 25000 hull. Maybe its ok to one shot smaller ships in its way, and big tanks can limp away from it at 15% hull. But like the Planet killer, make it obvious when its charging up so we can have time to not be in its line of sight. So for that side of the cube, keep your eye on the newly mounted death star weapon.
Space idea #2: Make all ships need to play like escorts against Borg, needing to come in, unload and get out of close proximity. Why do all ships need to get away after one minute? Because now the Borg employ a radiation protection field around them extending out 10k (but it cant stay up forever). But to counter this, the new Vesta line Fermion Field can cancel this out. So if a Vesta shows up, all the fleet ships need to get inside the protective bubble of the Fermion field as they enter the radiation field of the cube. Fermion field only lasts so long, so the ships will need to get back out or staying longer than a minute kills a ship from radiation.
Space idea #3: Borg employ a quicksand protection field instead of individual tractor beams (not active at the same time as the radiation field). The multidimensional graviton shield can escort in fleet ships to stay immune to the quicksand effect. The fleet has to stay inside the field to maintain normal movement. Entering into the Borg quicksand field is still tricky, because the Vesta needs to monitor where the death star weapon is mounted on the cube and make sure the cube doesnt slowly spin around and light the fleet up. A science ship captain needs to play mother hen protecting her fleet from the Borg using its big devices on them.
Space idea #4: For the Borg spheres, have a guillotine laser around the fattest part of the sphere wrapping all the way around. When you see it charge up, you need to get well above or below the sphere, because being on the same plain as the sphere will get you CUT by its laser as it spins around quickly gashing up ships within 10k of it.
But but KDF dont have Vesta ships! :mad: Well, give them equal Vesta line abilities too on a new KDF 3 pack ship and call them something else, make them look different, but provide the same effects.
The modo here is yeah, make the Borg tough, but a whole fleet shouldnt lose even one ship if all their captains keep their ship positioned properly and use better strategy before it engages a cube. Every ship in the fleet dying 3+ times is NOT STAR TREK. Get AWAY from that foolish philosophy of yours where we need to die and respawn multiple times to take down a big enemy. Make the enemies dangerous, but make death avoidable, where you HAVE to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee to take down Borg enemies (and others), and the foolish Captain that just stays still or tries to storm straight up the middle of the beaches of Normandy without help and tactics gets killed.
For all the players, please sign this petition to eliminate lazy one shot kill programming, and if you have ideas to make the Borg more challenging and fun, yet very fair, please include ideas here. And/or support mine too
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
There is always going to be a very good chance that an incoming High Yield Plasma torpedo will kill you outright, if it was fired from a Cube or Tac Cube. This is as designed, because they are easily countered by destroying them before they reach the intended target. They can also be outran, by using powers that increase your speed (like Evasive Maneuvers, e.g.).
I've performed extensive testing of targetable torpedo types, alongside our FX team, to ensure that they are not subject to the same FX drop-off issues that cause the infamous "Invisible Torpedo" -- it simply does not happen. This is because the shiny, glowy green HY Plasma balls are not FX, they are Costumes. They will not turn invis, they will not drop off because of excessive particle visuals going off in your vicinity. They may become difficult to see because of FX clutter, but I can guarantee that they are not invisible.
Torpedo Spreads - that's another issue altogether, and one that is currently under review for further tweaking.
The FX drop-off issue in general is something we've been seeking a tech fix for, for a long time now. It was brought to the forefront of our concerns when we rolled out the 20-man Starbase Defense events/missions, and saw it in full swing even in skirmishes taking place on the outlying areas of the map. There is no quick fix for this issue, and it's something we continue to struggle to overcome. The best we can offer at this time, is that it's a limitation we are aware of, and that we do our best to work with when creating and tuning content and encounters.
if you could take away a borg torp's ability to crit at least for now, that would go a long way to reducing 1 shots, invisible or other wise.
currently in hive, spread=dead. theres basically nothing you can do about it
whats the deal with that borg heavy plasma cannon? i REALLY want single cannons that have the same fireing cycle as a DHC like those have. are singles going to be updated to fire a heavy pulses like that itoo? at least then you could tell the difference between a single cannon shot and a turret shot. at the very least, the romulan D'd should have that heavy single cannon as well, it had something like that in canon
Well I'm afraid I can't call these ideas fair either, why should my teams be FORCED to bring a Vesta to kill a ship?
By all means make all ship CLASSES needed but not make 1 ship REQUIRED for all STFs.
You dont NEED a Vesta. You can still enter the radiation and quicksand fields without a sci, you just cant stick around as long to deal damage and have to burn up more engine batteries and evasive maneuvers to get out of Borg death range. Having a science ship with special abilities can reduce the time to kill a tac cube by a minute or more. Science needs to feel more appreciated, and my ideas are a good way of doing it.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
currently in hive, spread=dead. theres basically nothing you can do about it
This. As an engineer in a cruiser with all MK XII gear and buffs up it still pops me at full health. Or leaves me with a shred of hull that a single tick of plasma fire finishes off.
What I recognized is that the Transwarp gate in Infected Space for example likes to one hit if your shields are a little bit down. Not because of a visible incoming torpedo, but the famous invisible one.
Perhaps you could have a look at this behaviour too borticus? I had several situations where this happened. Yet, the invisible heavy hitting torpedo is still in the game.
Perhaps one should make it clear once more: We are not complaining about the High Yield Plasmas....They are targetable and if you are hit: you made the error. You are to be blamed.
We are definetly sick and tired of the invisible standard torpedo hits which bypass shields completely. You cannot counter this. You will 100% get hit by it directly without your shields mending the damage first before the kinetic impact. Please. For what is holy to you. This is a situation which is simply broken and reported broken for over a year.
There is always going to be a very good chance that an incoming High Yield Plasma torpedo will kill you outright, if it was fired from a Cube or Tac Cube. This is as designed, because they are easily countered by destroying them before they reach the intended target. They can also be outran, by using powers that increase your speed (like Evasive Maneuvers, e.g.).
Hi Bort, thanks for stopping by and adding some input.
Yes, I agree that a few loose HYT torpedoes can be dealt with.
I disagree and feel that a consistent and frequent stream of these of these cannot.
If you are a threat control tank, you will eat a large enough share of these torpedoes that will eventually outstrip your ability to shoot down or EM away from (or multiple targets will fire at you simultaneously).
If you are an escort you would need to fight well beyond the optimal range for cannons (2km), and woul dmost likely need to fight a little beyond 5km which is where you start to see severe drop off.
The alternative is to fight within 2km due to how cannons are designed and basically have HYT torpedoes spawn directly in your face.
It would be one thing to justify this if we could take cover, or if EM wasn't on a 45s cooldown.
So I'm not convinced that multiple targets, such as in CSE, should all be able to send a consistent stream of one-hit kill torpedoes at players.
Especially considering that some targets, like Borg cubes, now seem to have 360 degree coverage with HYT III Torpedoes.
The FX drop-off issue in general is something we've been seeking a tech fix for, for a long time now. It was brought to the forefront of our concerns when we rolled out the 20-man Starbase Defense events/missions, and saw it in full swing even in skirmishes taking place on the outlying areas of the map. There is no quick fix for this issue, and it's something we continue to struggle to overcome. The best we can offer at this time, is that it's a limitation we are aware of, and that we do our best to work with when creating and tuning content and encounters.
I understand that there is no quick fix for this, but please consider the following:
1) Players face a untargetable torpedoes that can one or two-hit kill them. It's an FX issue that is difficult to fix - we just need to suck this one up until there is a fix in the pipeline. I can live with that.
2) Players also face torpedo spreads that can also make quick work of them.
3) Players also face HYT III torpedoes that we are expected to switch targets and constantly shoot down.
NPCs don't generally switch targets.
They choose a single target high on the threat list and hammer it
repeatedly until it's gone or another target moves up higher on the threat list.
This is with torpedos that can do more raw damage than the hull values of a decently built cruiser (Assume 58k Hull w/50% resistance from consoles
for an effective hull value of 116,000)
Super weapons that can one hit kill a player that have limited firing arcs or encounter specific firing times/conditions can help add fun and challenge to an encounter.
Multiple NPCs (Borg Cube, Borg Raptors, Borg Negh'var, Borg BOPs, Borg Spheres) in a single encounter being able to consistently and frequently hammer players with one hit kill weapons are not (imo), even if they are "targetable".
Targetable might not be such an issue if we weren't forced to basically fight within 5km if we want our weapons to be effective or our Threat Control skill to be effective.
Example:
Even on a Cruiser with a Tac captain, beam arrays, 6 tactical Boff powers, and 6 ranks in threat control if you sit 6 to 8 KM away your Escorts will pull threat off you - the best option is to hover right above a cube and be as close as possible.
Whether this is due to damage drop off from distance, some kind of proximity modifier for threat calculations or both is something you would know better than I.
So I disagree that weapons of this power should be spread out so liberally in a series of encounters that also have constant stacking hull procs that ignore shields, shield draining NPCs, Isometric charge, etc.
[Combat (Team)] Tactical Cube deals 149617 (207193) Kinetic Damage to [NAME] with Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III.
[Combat (Other)] Tactical Cube deals 342293 (203411) Kinetic Damage to [NAME] with Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III.
The thing that confuses me about log entries is the number in brackets. I believe it's supposed to be damage done by the attack before shields and/or resistance. And the other number is the actual damage taken off your hull. That logic makes sense for the 1st line, but not the second.
As for the plasma burn, I've only had a quick look at it appears to scale depending on the weapon that caused it and who fired it. I haven't seen it stacking, but that doesn't mean it doesn't.
Plasma arrays seem to have the weakest burn and Torps have the strongest. Don't ask me about Heavy Torps, no one lives to tell the tale. Spheres have the weakest burn, then cubes and then tac cubes. When you're getting 65 a tick, it's a sphere's plasma array. When you're getting 650-700 a tick, that's a torp from a tac cube.
Perhaps I should Pug a Cure to find out where BoP and Raptors fit into the scale.;)
If you manage to get a two science officers to cycle grav well on the tactical cube, then nobody will get hit with an invisa-torp. Grav well crushes torps, cloaked or not. While not ideal in the long run, it is a good short term fix until Cryptic fixes this.
The KA and infected gates are throwing out insane plasma torps. I have EPtS3 and RSP up and running, my shields were completely full and I got dropped to 20% hull in a single torpedo.. thats Maco XII, high end field gens, 12k shield HP (heavily reinforced) and over 30k of my hull from a single plasma torp... ridiculous.
Invisi torps are always visible to me, they do show up about 2-3s after they hit though.
There is always going to be a very good chance that an incoming High Yield Plasma torpedo will kill you outright, if it was fired from a Cube or Tac Cube. This is as designed, because they are easily countered by destroying them before they reach the intended target. They can also be outran, by using powers that increase your speed (like Evasive Maneuvers, e.g.).
(more snipped)
Bort i dont believe its torps that are doing these one shot kills since the last patch or two. I have been instantly destroyed not by torps during ise when fighting the tact cube. I never die like this before. Please look at all the weapons that they have and determine if something is doing something it shouldnt because i know that something is wrong here and i know i do not get hit by their plasma torps.
Oh and bort either you or another dev clearly stated that one shots were NOT intended in the game so please talk amongst the other devs if you didnt say it and talk about this issue. It was very clear that one shots were to be fixed if found.
If so - ffs! We deserve to know AHEAD OF TIME so we can adjust our builds accordingly. :mad:
Add to the fact that we weren't "Playing as Intended" with the Borg+STF set combo that was nerfed out of existence, we are getting it both ways now...
I have definitely noticed that normal Cubes now fire Torps UP and Down whereas they did not used to.
Also, it is indeed the Non-High Yield Inviso torps once again that are annihilating people. That and the shield stripping of the Borg seems to have gotten slightly MORE out of hand.
Torps deal more damage, come more often, and burn much more powerfully.
I run an engineer in her cruiser and am built for taking heavy damage.
I have not really norticed any new issues and the old issues of invis torps of death seem to avoid me.
I am not debatying whether it exists or not but in my play style I am not impacted by these seemingly DEITY-induced events.
I think much of the issues experienced here are related to PUG groups where it is a hodge-podge and Ad-hoc mess of players who are forced to endure each other.
In the STFS I die about once every , maybe, 10 stfs at the most while driving my tank. And even then it is because I did something stupid where I know I was gambling.
Most often the invis torp of anti proton death hits it does around 20k at best. Which is easily overcome with self heals.
My most difficult times in PUGS are when there is no balance of classes and one class aka DPS is relied on too heavily. then ships tend to die fast in a domino effect unless the main aggro escort knows enough to get away and KITE the Borg.
I also have timers...BLAME this on EQ2. Timers for everything. I know when the Borg Abilities are going off and when to avoid them and to buff myself. In eq2 raids always called out the mega damage potential and it was mandatory the whole group countered them or we risked a wipe. This has carried over into STO that I know when a Borg does somethng and so I am pretty much prepared.
I dare say the casual player in STO is not doinig this either and I am not so sure it is required but every little thing helps.
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
Torpedo Spreads - that's another issue altogether, and one that is currently under review for further tweaking.
The FX drop-off issue in general is something we've been seeking a tech fix for, for a long time now. It was brought to the forefront of our concerns when we rolled out the 20-man Starbase Defense events/missions, and saw it in full swing even in skirmishes taking place on the outlying areas of the map. There is no quick fix for this issue, and it's something we continue to struggle to overcome. The best we can offer at this time, is that it's a limitation we are aware of, and that we do our best to work with when creating and tuning content and encounters.
I'm wondering if the same bug that affects Dispersal Pattern Beta, Eject warp Plasma, and other effects similar, also affects Torpedo Spread.. Where if one of the Torpedo Explosion AOE's Crits, the entire torpedo Spread also Crits. If that's so, couple that in with the "Invisible Torpedo" Scenero and Plasma DoT burns also already affected by this bug, it could be an even more serious problem that might seriously need to be fixed for both PVE and PVP's sake.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Actually just went in ISE and was hit by a invisible torp so they still do exist despite claims by bort that they dont disappear anymore. Also i noticed just before i was insta killed that when i was hit i was about 70% health and 1 sec later when evasive maneuvers was on to get away the plasma burn insta killed me so i see 2 problems. 1 the invisible torp does happen either that or something the borg is knocking out is applying plasma burn damage although i cant be certain i saw green burn on my ship but i did see the purple icon showing plasma was on me. Then there's 2, the burn or plasma damage that lingers is what causes massive damage in a second or two at most which is the big killer.
What bugs me about all of this is that these problems started coming up because SOMEONE decided to tinker with the stats of the gotdamned Tac cubes...and didnt put it in the tribble build and CERTAINLY didnt put it in the patch notes. WTF is up with that? When did this start happening? Is this a new policy?
All back to "playing as intended". People using Borg alcoves to hide from Rebecca? Delete them. People coming up with interesting combinations of Starship sets? Nerf them. ISE too much fun? Too many people staying on "top" of the cube? Buff it, add a metric ****ton of HP, stronger weps and a firing arc not allowed to human players.
W
T
F
Now the chickens are coming home to roost. "We don't know what happened to the Borg!!!" from Stahl and some Devs....pure and utter nonsense! They wouldn't be broken if you werent stealth tweaking them so much.
What bugs me about all of this is that these problems started coming up because SOMEONE decided to tinker with the stats of the gotdamned Tac cubes...and didnt put it in the tribble build and CERTAINLY didnt put it in the patch notes. WTF is up with that? When did this start happening? Is this a new policy?
All back to "playing as intended". People using Borg alcoves to hide from Rebecca? Delete them. People coming up with interesting combinations of Starship sets? Nerf them. ISE too much fun? Too many people staying on "top" of the cube? Buff it, add a metric ****ton of HP, stronger weps and a firing arc not allowed to human players.
W
T
F
Now the chickens are coming home to roost. "We don't know what happened to the Borg!!!" from Stahl and some Devs....pure and utter nonsense! They wouldn't be broken if you werent stealth tweaking them so much.
I've moved every captain that it makes sense for out of their patrol escorts and into ships that can load one or more of the following:
GW
TBR
EWP
I've started running my Escorts with HE1 and TBR1 (dropping PH or TSS - TBR1 can sometimes push smaller foes away far enough to break Tractor Locks) and the Vent Theta Radiation Console. Coating a Cube in Warp Plasma will usually kill heavy torps as they launch, but sitting in a cloud of it yourself is a bit hit and miss (literally - the damage ticks of the cloud will often miss the torpedo as it passes through).
Combined with Torpedo Spread and a copy of CSV1, I'll usually survive one Cube unless I'm not paying attention. But it's still not foolproof whenever I'm sitting within 2KM range. The only way for me to be sure that nothing will one-shot me in a smaller ship when I'm sitting that close range is to drop a copy of Gravity Well or Tykens's Rift on the Cube - Escorts can generally take a copy of TR1, but it's only useful in that one situation and it doesn't last as long as GW...
At least all the Vesta Pilots are fine, I guess... TBR3, GW1 AND Tykens 1... :rolleyes:
At least all the Vesta Pilots are fine, I guess... TBR3, GW1 AND Tykens 1... :rolleyes:
Scoff all you want, but a half-decent science captain will keep the HY's away from the entire team*, including escorts
A brave/foolish captain in a Vesta might even decide to run GW, Tykens, TBR, EWP, FaW and Torp Spread, at the same time. And would you like some aggro to go with that?
In that build, there'd also be possibilities to run TT1, 2xEPtS, RSP, Aux2SIF and a HE1, at the same time.
Sure, it's not dps-focussed, but it's got HY's, CC and some survivability covered. Particularly if done by an engineer with Fermion Field console...
Should be hilarious in SB24 too.
*split situations like KASE transformer cubes and the Cure cubes excluded
Edit: put like that, it does seem slightly overpowered, doesn't it?
Edit: put like that, it does seem slightly overpowered, doesn't it?
Little bit, yeah...
My Federation Tactical Captain (not my main) is still flying an Orb Weaver for that very reason: Tykens Rift 1 + Gravity Well 1 + TBR 3 + Vent Theta Console + Tholian Web Console, about the only things missing are a Aceton Assimilator and a few Fighter wings set to "Intercept"!
As an aside, since season 7 kicked in I've been testing quite a few cruiser builds for "main tanking" the new + improved Borg. Lots of them were able to tank large groups of weaker foes, but I found that the best option for tanking hard single-targets on Elite without dying has been an Odyssey - due entirely to the ability to swap the LtCom Universal slot from a Tac BOFF (Normal mode) to a Sci BOFF (Boss Tank mode).
I've also become quite fond of using the Aegis Engine/Deflector + Mk XII MACO shield combo for tanking since the Borg set change! 80% Defence on a cruiser is nothing to sneeze at...
Comments
Let this be a lesson NEVER to stealth buff or nerf without testing. Read: Don't stealth. You guys tweaked the Borg and now the chickens are coming home to roost. This "i don't know WHAT happened"-nonsense is just that.
It was pretty awesome.
I always hover at over 9 km and watch out for incoming projectiles. Did not see this or the dozen ones like it in previous STF's coming. I never do, and it's becoming less and less likely that my otherwise normal eyesight is mysteriously failing at exactly the worst possible moment time after time.
If it's a graphical issue, fixing that alone would go a long way. Whether having such instakill torps in the first place is justified, that's a different matter and I can't say I'd be opposed to reducing their damage (or scaling it to be a percentage of your total hitpoints) but a means to counter is an absolute necessity.
I've performed extensive testing of targetable torpedo types, alongside our FX team, to ensure that they are not subject to the same FX drop-off issues that cause the infamous "Invisible Torpedo" -- it simply does not happen. This is because the shiny, glowy green HY Plasma balls are not FX, they are Costumes. They will not turn invis, they will not drop off because of excessive particle visuals going off in your vicinity. They may become difficult to see because of FX clutter, but I can guarantee that they are not invisible.
Torpedo Spreads - that's another issue altogether, and one that is currently under review for further tweaking.
The FX drop-off issue in general is something we've been seeking a tech fix for, for a long time now. It was brought to the forefront of our concerns when we rolled out the 20-man Starbase Defense events/missions, and saw it in full swing even in skirmishes taking place on the outlying areas of the map. There is no quick fix for this issue, and it's something we continue to struggle to overcome. The best we can offer at this time, is that it's a limitation we are aware of, and that we do our best to work with when creating and tuning content and encounters.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I know other species have them but this is mainly talking about the Borg. You want to make them as tough as Wolf 359? Ok, Im good with that. Make Tactical Cubes as tough as Wolf 359, needing at least 4 strong ships or 5 average ships to take down one after 4+ minutes. Make average cubes go down with 3 strong ships and 4 average.
But the one shotting is ridiculous. STOP IT NOW! Heres my ideas to replace Borg one shot weaponry. Make Borg weapons more science in nature, and make having a science ship in the fleet to counter those weapons very valuable without it needing to have antiproton weaponry.
Space idea #1: Death Ray. Something like the Planet Killer, that can go through 100% shields and drop 25000 hull. Maybe its ok to one shot smaller ships in its way, and big tanks can limp away from it at 15% hull. But like the Planet killer, make it obvious when its charging up so we can have time to not be in its line of sight. So for that side of the cube, keep your eye on the newly mounted death star weapon.
Space idea #2: Make all ships need to play like escorts against Borg, needing to come in, unload and get out of close proximity. Why do all ships need to get away after one minute? Because now the Borg employ a radiation protection field around them extending out 10k (but it cant stay up forever). But to counter this, the new Vesta line Fermion Field can cancel this out. So if a Vesta shows up, all the fleet ships need to get inside the protective bubble of the Fermion field as they enter the radiation field of the cube. Fermion field only lasts so long, so the ships will need to get back out or staying longer than a minute kills a ship from radiation.
Space idea #3: Borg employ a quicksand protection field instead of individual tractor beams (not active at the same time as the radiation field). The multidimensional graviton shield can escort in fleet ships to stay immune to the quicksand effect. The fleet has to stay inside the field to maintain normal movement. Entering into the Borg quicksand field is still tricky, because the Vesta needs to monitor where the death star weapon is mounted on the cube and make sure the cube doesnt slowly spin around and light the fleet up. A science ship captain needs to play mother hen protecting her fleet from the Borg using its big devices on them.
Space idea #4: For the Borg spheres, have a guillotine laser around the fattest part of the sphere wrapping all the way around. When you see it charge up, you need to get well above or below the sphere, because being on the same plain as the sphere will get you CUT by its laser as it spins around quickly gashing up ships within 10k of it.
But but KDF dont have Vesta ships! :mad: Well, give them equal Vesta line abilities too on a new KDF 3 pack ship and call them something else, make them look different, but provide the same effects.
The modo here is yeah, make the Borg tough, but a whole fleet shouldnt lose even one ship if all their captains keep their ship positioned properly and use better strategy before it engages a cube. Every ship in the fleet dying 3+ times is NOT STAR TREK. Get AWAY from that foolish philosophy of yours where we need to die and respawn multiple times to take down a big enemy. Make the enemies dangerous, but make death avoidable, where you HAVE to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee to take down Borg enemies (and others), and the foolish Captain that just stays still or tries to storm straight up the middle of the beaches of Normandy without help and tactics gets killed.
For all the players, please sign this petition to eliminate lazy one shot kill programming, and if you have ideas to make the Borg more challenging and fun, yet very fair, please include ideas here. And/or support mine too
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
if you could take away a borg torp's ability to crit at least for now, that would go a long way to reducing 1 shots, invisible or other wise.
currently in hive, spread=dead. theres basically nothing you can do about it
whats the deal with that borg heavy plasma cannon? i REALLY want single cannons that have the same fireing cycle as a DHC like those have. are singles going to be updated to fire a heavy pulses like that itoo? at least then you could tell the difference between a single cannon shot and a turret shot. at the very least, the romulan D'd should have that heavy single cannon as well, it had something like that in canon
pretty much this
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
By all means make all ship CLASSES needed but not make 1 ship REQUIRED for all STFs.
You dont NEED a Vesta. You can still enter the radiation and quicksand fields without a sci, you just cant stick around as long to deal damage and have to burn up more engine batteries and evasive maneuvers to get out of Borg death range. Having a science ship with special abilities can reduce the time to kill a tac cube by a minute or more. Science needs to feel more appreciated, and my ideas are a good way of doing it.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
This. As an engineer in a cruiser with all MK XII gear and buffs up it still pops me at full health. Or leaves me with a shred of hull that a single tick of plasma fire finishes off.
Perhaps you could have a look at this behaviour too borticus? I had several situations where this happened. Yet, the invisible heavy hitting torpedo is still in the game.
Perhaps one should make it clear once more: We are not complaining about the High Yield Plasmas....They are targetable and if you are hit: you made the error. You are to be blamed.
We are definetly sick and tired of the invisible standard torpedo hits which bypass shields completely. You cannot counter this. You will 100% get hit by it directly without your shields mending the damage first before the kinetic impact. Please. For what is holy to you. This is a situation which is simply broken and reported broken for over a year.
No one could believe it lol.
Hi Bort, thanks for stopping by and adding some input.
Yes, I agree that a few loose HYT torpedoes can be dealt with.
I disagree and feel that a consistent and frequent stream of these of these cannot.
If you are a threat control tank, you will eat a large enough share of these torpedoes that will eventually outstrip your ability to shoot down or EM away from (or multiple targets will fire at you simultaneously).
If you are an escort you would need to fight well beyond the optimal range for cannons (2km), and woul dmost likely need to fight a little beyond 5km which is where you start to see severe drop off.
The alternative is to fight within 2km due to how cannons are designed and basically have HYT torpedoes spawn directly in your face.
It would be one thing to justify this if we could take cover, or if EM wasn't on a 45s cooldown.
So I'm not convinced that multiple targets, such as in CSE, should all be able to send a consistent stream of one-hit kill torpedoes at players.
Especially considering that some targets, like Borg cubes, now seem to have 360 degree coverage with HYT III Torpedoes.
I understand that there is no quick fix for this, but please consider the following:
1) Players face a untargetable torpedoes that can one or two-hit kill them. It's an FX issue that is difficult to fix - we just need to suck this one up until there is a fix in the pipeline. I can live with that.
2) Players also face torpedo spreads that can also make quick work of them.
3) Players also face HYT III torpedoes that we are expected to switch targets and constantly shoot down.
NPCs don't generally switch targets.
They choose a single target high on the threat list and hammer it
repeatedly until it's gone or another target moves up higher on the threat list.
This is with torpedos that can do more raw damage than the hull values of a decently built cruiser (Assume 58k Hull w/50% resistance from consoles
for an effective hull value of 116,000)
Super weapons that can one hit kill a player that have limited firing arcs or encounter specific firing times/conditions can help add fun and challenge to an encounter.
Multiple NPCs (Borg Cube, Borg Raptors, Borg Negh'var, Borg BOPs, Borg Spheres) in a single encounter being able to consistently and frequently hammer players with one hit kill weapons are not (imo), even if they are "targetable".
Targetable might not be such an issue if we weren't forced to basically fight within 5km if we want our weapons to be effective or our Threat Control skill to be effective.
Example:
Even on a Cruiser with a Tac captain, beam arrays, 6 tactical Boff powers, and 6 ranks in threat control if you sit 6 to 8 KM away your Escorts will pull threat off you - the best option is to hover right above a cube and be as close as possible.
Whether this is due to damage drop off from distance, some kind of proximity modifier for threat calculations or both is something you would know better than I.
So I disagree that weapons of this power should be spread out so liberally in a series of encounters that also have constant stacking hull procs that ignore shields, shield draining NPCs, Isometric charge, etc.
As for the plasma burn, I've only had a quick look at it appears to scale depending on the weapon that caused it and who fired it. I haven't seen it stacking, but that doesn't mean it doesn't.
Plasma arrays seem to have the weakest burn and Torps have the strongest. Don't ask me about Heavy Torps, no one lives to tell the tale. Spheres have the weakest burn, then cubes and then tac cubes. When you're getting 65 a tick, it's a sphere's plasma array. When you're getting 650-700 a tick, that's a torp from a tac cube.
Perhaps I should Pug a Cure to find out where BoP and Raptors fit into the scale.;)
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Invisi torps are always visible to me, they do show up about 2-3s after they hit though.
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Bort i dont believe its torps that are doing these one shot kills since the last patch or two. I have been instantly destroyed not by torps during ise when fighting the tact cube. I never die like this before. Please look at all the weapons that they have and determine if something is doing something it shouldnt because i know that something is wrong here and i know i do not get hit by their plasma torps.
Oh and bort either you or another dev clearly stated that one shots were NOT intended in the game so please talk amongst the other devs if you didnt say it and talk about this issue. It was very clear that one shots were to be fixed if found.
I have definitely noticed that normal Cubes now fire Torps UP and Down whereas they did not used to.
Also, it is indeed the Non-High Yield Inviso torps once again that are annihilating people. That and the shield stripping of the Borg seems to have gotten slightly MORE out of hand.
Torps deal more damage, come more often, and burn much more powerfully.
I have not really norticed any new issues and the old issues of invis torps of death seem to avoid me.
I am not debatying whether it exists or not but in my play style I am not impacted by these seemingly DEITY-induced events.
I think much of the issues experienced here are related to PUG groups where it is a hodge-podge and Ad-hoc mess of players who are forced to endure each other.
In the STFS I die about once every , maybe, 10 stfs at the most while driving my tank. And even then it is because I did something stupid where I know I was gambling.
Most often the invis torp of anti proton death hits it does around 20k at best. Which is easily overcome with self heals.
My most difficult times in PUGS are when there is no balance of classes and one class aka DPS is relied on too heavily. then ships tend to die fast in a domino effect unless the main aggro escort knows enough to get away and KITE the Borg.
I also have timers...BLAME this on EQ2. Timers for everything. I know when the Borg Abilities are going off and when to avoid them and to buff myself. In eq2 raids always called out the mega damage potential and it was mandatory the whole group countered them or we risked a wipe. This has carried over into STO that I know when a Borg does somethng and so I am pretty much prepared.
I dare say the casual player in STO is not doinig this either and I am not so sure it is required but every little thing helps.
I'm wondering if the same bug that affects Dispersal Pattern Beta, Eject warp Plasma, and other effects similar, also affects Torpedo Spread.. Where if one of the Torpedo Explosion AOE's Crits, the entire torpedo Spread also Crits. If that's so, couple that in with the "Invisible Torpedo" Scenero and Plasma DoT burns also already affected by this bug, it could be an even more serious problem that might seriously need to be fixed for both PVE and PVP's sake.
Think about this:
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This is basically what I'm doing now.
I've moved every captain that it makes sense for out of their patrol escorts and into ships that can load one or more of the following:
GW
TBR
EWP
Please look into these areas bort.
All back to "playing as intended". People using Borg alcoves to hide from Rebecca? Delete them. People coming up with interesting combinations of Starship sets? Nerf them. ISE too much fun? Too many people staying on "top" of the cube? Buff it, add a metric ****ton of HP, stronger weps and a firing arc not allowed to human players.
W
T
F
Now the chickens are coming home to roost. "We don't know what happened to the Borg!!!" from Stahl and some Devs....pure and utter nonsense! They wouldn't be broken if you werent stealth tweaking them so much.
Amen, brother.
I've started running my Escorts with HE1 and TBR1 (dropping PH or TSS - TBR1 can sometimes push smaller foes away far enough to break Tractor Locks) and the Vent Theta Radiation Console. Coating a Cube in Warp Plasma will usually kill heavy torps as they launch, but sitting in a cloud of it yourself is a bit hit and miss (literally - the damage ticks of the cloud will often miss the torpedo as it passes through).
Combined with Torpedo Spread and a copy of CSV1, I'll usually survive one Cube unless I'm not paying attention. But it's still not foolproof whenever I'm sitting within 2KM range. The only way for me to be sure that nothing will one-shot me in a smaller ship when I'm sitting that close range is to drop a copy of Gravity Well or Tykens's Rift on the Cube - Escorts can generally take a copy of TR1, but it's only useful in that one situation and it doesn't last as long as GW...
At least all the Vesta Pilots are fine, I guess... TBR3, GW1 AND Tykens 1... :rolleyes:
Scoff all you want, but a half-decent science captain will keep the HY's away from the entire team*, including escorts
A brave/foolish captain in a Vesta might even decide to run GW, Tykens, TBR, EWP, FaW and Torp Spread, at the same time. And would you like some aggro to go with that?
In that build, there'd also be possibilities to run TT1, 2xEPtS, RSP, Aux2SIF and a HE1, at the same time.
Sure, it's not dps-focussed, but it's got HY's, CC and some survivability covered. Particularly if done by an engineer with Fermion Field console...
Should be hilarious in SB24 too.
*split situations like KASE transformer cubes and the Cure cubes excluded
Edit: put like that, it does seem slightly overpowered, doesn't it?
Little bit, yeah...
My Federation Tactical Captain (not my main) is still flying an Orb Weaver for that very reason: Tykens Rift 1 + Gravity Well 1 + TBR 3 + Vent Theta Console + Tholian Web Console, about the only things missing are a Aceton Assimilator and a few Fighter wings set to "Intercept"!
As an aside, since season 7 kicked in I've been testing quite a few cruiser builds for "main tanking" the new + improved Borg. Lots of them were able to tank large groups of weaker foes, but I found that the best option for tanking hard single-targets on Elite without dying has been an Odyssey - due entirely to the ability to swap the LtCom Universal slot from a Tac BOFF (Normal mode) to a Sci BOFF (Boss Tank mode).
I've also become quite fond of using the Aegis Engine/Deflector + Mk XII MACO shield combo for tanking since the Borg set change! 80% Defence on a cruiser is nothing to sneeze at...