It's not a full return to the dilith income STFs had pre-S7, but it's likely the best we're going to get. Of more concern is the divorcing of what is ostensibly STOs "end game content" from the source of marketable loot (IE, dropped mkx-xii gear from STFs). I get that they're trying to get folks into FAs, but...there has to be a better way.
Of bigger concern is the fact that Cryptic, and Dstahl specifically, squandered all and any goodwill and credibility that a successful S7 launch could have generated. Their promises are worth absolutely nothing, and very few folks are going to forget how blatantly and unapologetically this change was initially forced, despite near unanimous opposition during "testing".
Simply put, folks were dubious before, now they flat out expect to be lied to at every turn. Not the situation you want to put your revenue stream in.
Not because I wanted *more* Dilithium in STFs. I hate running STFs. They take a long time and aren't all that fun, and I don't really care about the anti-borg gear. I'm annoyed because prior to all the ********, you could spend half the time doing a fleet action, and get three times the dilithium.
Now? Not so much. Man, ****** the whining. Maybe I should start talking about canceling my lifetime subscription over this if that's what it takes to get Cryptic to change.
(Or better yet, I'll complain about it when I write up my article on it at geekparty.com)
Probably because people prefer to be happy over angered? The wound's still there, but considering he posted the day after season launch that they'd be reversing it, it's not nearly as bad as if weeks went by before it happened.
And unapologetic? It's a given that 'the customer is always right'... why would they need to apologize when their actions do that for them (generally)? Not exactly a nice sentiment, but it does make a little sense
Though this is probably my relief talking (about players being glad about the reversal), lol.
So we should just instantly forget about how Cryptic tried to treat us, and praise them for only slightly nerfing dilithium? Should I thank the mugger who only steals 80% of what's in my pocket?
Considering they never posted at all about removing dilithium completely from STFs until after the fact, the storm that stirred up forced them into action only a day after.
Yes, they should apologize for how they treated us, and for what they tried to pull on us. Didn't even have the decency to tell us until after they'd done the deed and removed dilithium completely, because they knew what a storm it would create, only they were hoping it wouldn't be quite so big that they could ignore it and it would eventually go away.
They don't even have the balls to but their 'announcement' on the front page of this site, merely hide it in the news forum and an edited dev blog. Why hide it like that? Afraid of the negative publicity they'd get for what they tried to do?
So we should just instantly forget about how Cryptic tried to treat us, and praise them for only slightly nerfing dilithium? Should I thank the mugger who only steals 80% of what's in my pocket?
Considering they never posted at all about removing dilithium completely from STFs until after the fact, the storm that stirred up forced them into action only a day after.
Yes, they should apologize for how they treated us, and for what they tried to pull on us. Didn't even have the decency to tell us until after they'd done the deed and removed dilithium completely, because they knew what a storm it would create, only they were hoping it wouldn't be quite so big that they could ignore it and it would eventually go away.
They don't even have the balls to but their 'announcement' on the front page of this site, merely hide it in the news forum and an edited dev blog. Why hide it like that? Afraid of the negative publicity they'd get for what they tried to do?
The fact they changed it back after ONE day should say something though, at the very least. They deserve a little credit for that, even if it's just a little compared to everything else.
And if you see back in this thread, I'm pratically immune to being burned, lied to, or stuff like that. So I personally think people don't have to apologize for doing those kinds of things to people. Just have both groups move on, and not waste time doing so.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I am still somewhat annoyed that this happened to begin with, but re-adding the dil to STFs is a step in the right direction. I am still quite annoyed that STFs don't give loot like they used to, since those engines and deflectors and other random stuff was actually quite a good way to make some ECs as opposed to praying that the BoP you are killing will drop something.
As is, it's still fubar, but I am rather impressed that it only took a day for them to reverse this. Kudos to them for listening, but we're not out of the woods yet. They still have the issue of having blatantly lied to our faces, and still have the issue of a lot of HUGE bugs and other problems that came with the new season.
But I can live with this for now.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
No. I'm bored to the back teeth of grinding those damn STFs daily ever since the game went F2P. For 24 hours we had access to a quick and easy method of dilithium grinding, fleet actions, which allowed me to get my dilithium grinding done so I can get on and do something new and/or fun (New Romulus and PvP).
Instead thanks to the STFers whining it's back to risking a pug or wasting time trying to get a team togther, all to do mindless and boring content I've played to death. Now if I want to max out my dilithium I'm going to have to spend hours.
No. I'm bored to the back teeth of grinding those damn STFs daily ever since the game went F2P. For 24 hours we had access to a quick and easy method of dilithium grinding, fleet actions, which allowed me to get my dilithium grinding done so I can get on and do something new and/or fun (New Romulus and PvP).
Instead thanks to the STFers whining it's back to risking a pug or wasting time trying to get a team togther, all to do mindless and boring content I've played to death. Now if I want to max out my dilithium I'm going to have to spend hours.
Well done, you've scored a victory for cryptic.
So are STFs, the difference is fleet actions are quicker.
This is pretty much *exactly* how I feel, and I've only been playing since the game went F2P.
While I can appreciate that some time is actually being spent to consider the reaction of the community, the gravest mistake is to assume they are your inferior. They/We are human customers, not puppets with wallets.
This was a nice.. dance.. but the outrage that occurred yesterday is a symptom, not the problem itself. Should Cryptic, and by proxy PWE, want to avoid this.. danger.. in the future, they need to address the core issue that is causing these problems.
Make Dilithium more available to all level 50 players
There is potential for the future of this game in this line alone, but the question is whether or not there will be any weight behind it as we move forward...
Events such as this shake and disillusion customers. The ripples of distrust this has sparked.. is going to take a lot of hard work and time to mend. People have stuck with this game through a lot of 'mistakes' in the past, but it is never a good idea to find out where that breaking point actually is.
Personally, to answer the OP's question, No. My emotional reaction to this.. 'compromise'.. would be.. Bitter.
I still feel there should be a loot reward for completing the optional so as to make that challenge not entirely meaningless(on par with achieving top honors in fleet actions). Additionally, I still do not find the one-sided changes to the Doff system to be acceptable. The dilithium income/expense ratio needs to be relaxed before that one.. can be swallowed. (nothing less than a 30% reduction in cost, or a significant increase of dilithium rewards)
I have to be honest i was glad they took dil out of stfs i find the pve game play in this game fun but weak. Dont get me wrong the new hive is tough but still with a premade it is a cake walk. I like pvp and when i heard dil was to be taken out of stfs i was happy in the thought that mabey more poeple would take to pvp as a way to make up not getting it in stfs. but alas rainbow boats and afkers get there way again.
PS
to any and all who afk stfs
if sto was smart they would put anf afk kick button into the Qs
and to all those who have had the afker report and ignore them
livingrtb your ignorance and bias is only too clear. PvP is not what this game is about. Nor is everyone that eschews PvP an idiot newbie. PvP is weaksauce. They kill PvE and people quit. They don't turn to PvP. That's how it works. PvE ***is*** STO. They kill it, they kill the game, and your precious sub-culture suffers by proxy. So show a little non-selfish consideration, eh?
livingrtb your ignorance and bias is only too clear. PvP is not what this game is about. Nor is everyone that eschews PvP an idiot newbie. PvP is weaksauce. They kill PvE and people quit. They don't turn to PvP. That's how it works. PvE ***is*** STO. They kill it, they kill the game, and your precious sub-culture suffers by proxy. So show a little non-selfish consideration, eh?
This compromise only benefits one group of people - STF players, and mostly Elite STF players. For the rest of us, it's in real terms, another nerf to Dilithium acquisition rates. Honestly, once I finally single-handedly get my starbase to level 1 I'm going to leave it there. With all the new Dilithium fees and the reduction in ways to get it, there's no point in even trying to progress.
And before everyone says, "play STFs!", I really don't have the motivation to do that. I've been playing this game since February, and in that time I've seen so much of the, "if you don't play STFs you're not doing the game right," sort of attitude, along with the whole 'Elite STF players are better than you' type of thing, and it's utterly turned me off the whole game mode. And now, because I have no interest in STFs, I'm getting punished with yet another reduction in the amount of Dilithium I can earn in a day. And they have the nerve to sell this as some massive favour to the community? No. Sorry, but no. It stinks. The Dilithium economy was working fine before you started messing about with it in a transparent attempt to make us buy more Zen and convert it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
It's an insult to say they listen but then change one of the LEAST of the problems they just introduced. Adding dilithium back to STFs is a small portion of the problems they've just added. THe entire game is a dil sink now. That's the problem. DOFFs costing THOUSANDS of dil per day is the problem.
The result is still a net loss of thousands of dil per day as compared to season6.
**** NO, I'm not happy with thier "compromise" (which can barely even be called that).
TRUE if there was a fix it should have increase the amount of dilithium we receive not cut.
Now everything cost dilithium even stuff that was free now cost dilithium, when everyone gets to the end game items they will see the cost for xii maco is 80000+ dilithium i hope you save for it.
once you hit 50 you should be doing Elite STF's anyways in order to equip yourself. Generally though with the reputation factor much of the pain is gone of continually grinding unless you want to.
I think its a good compromise. Cryptic did not have to make this change. We would have complained bitterly and maybe gone somewhere else (unlikely at this point) but they took a step to make a good compromise that still moved towards where they want the game to be while still provinding a reason to PVE, STF and do the fleet tasks that help earn reputation and further the new mechanics.
Overall I think it is a good step, the new content is nifty, although the Tholian Red Alert seems broken to hell and gone. overall I think it was a good update and I like the new story Arc.
Yes I'm a lifer, and NoI don't play nearly as much as I used to but I still play a coupe of times a week and mostly enjoy the experience and will continue to play and occasionally buy new content when something really nifty happens.
so settle back, relax, enjoy it or else go play with your lightsaber next to the guy who looks just like you.
Cheers,
FyreMouse
Proud to be a Lifer.
I earned my 1000 days the hard way and I still come back...
once you hit 50 you should be doing Elite STF's anyways in order to equip yourself. Generally though with the reputation factor much of the pain is gone of continually grinding unless you want to.
I think its a good compromise. Cryptic did not have to make this change. We would have complained bitterly and maybe gone somewhere else (unlikely at this point) but they took a step to make a good compromise that still moved towards where they want the game to be while still provinding a reason to PVE, STF and do the fleet tasks that help earn reputation and further the new mechanics.
Overall I think it is a good step, the new content is nifty, although the Tholian Red Alert seems broken to hell and gone. overall I think it was a good update and I like the new story Arc.
Yes I'm a lifer, and NoI don't play nearly as much as I used to but I still play a coupe of times a week and mostly enjoy the experience and will continue to play and occasionally buy new content when something really nifty happens.
so settle back, relax, enjoy it or else go play with your lightsaber next to the guy who looks just like you.
Cheers,
FyreMouse
What if I get bored with Elite STFs, generally hate the people I wind up in PUGs with, and just want to get lots of Dilithium to buy pretty new ships and clothes?
This was posted by DStahl today regarding the generally negative feedback about changes to STFs and end-game content in Season 7. I would like to know how people feel about this, and whether or not the general consensus is that it goes far enough to rectify the most grievous of complaints.
LOL If any of you can agree with this, I have a chair to sell you with no legs on it. Then a Month later I will offer the legs for 100 dollars a piece. After another month I will offer you the back to the chair for only 1000 dollars. The Ferengi would be pleased.
I think this is an outstanding decision that is an excellent compromise. I too wondered where the Dil went at the end of an STF... this will allow Cryptic to sort of maintain their original intent with the Dil changes while also proving that they listen to their player base and can make a course correction when needed. Bravo. I'm off to run more STFs....
Am I?
No.
Is there anything that can be done to convince PWE to revert back to the pre-S7 (as far as Dilithium/Rewards are concerned) model?
No.
I don't know if I'll ever spend REAL money on STO again, THAT is something we ALL have control over.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
What if I get bored with Elite STFs, generally hate the people I wind up in PUGs with, and just want to get lots of Dilithium to buy pretty new ships and clothes?
Don't PUG.
This is an MMO. there are MANY, MANY people on at any given time and there's an STF chat channel to help you avoid PUGging.
You just want ships and clothes? GO mine dilithium and grind it out in the fleet actions.
I'd rather get SOME dilithium in addition to my omega marks, since those are the only ways to get end game gear now.
livingrtb your ignorance and bias is only too clear. PvP is not what this game is about. Nor is everyone that eschews PvP an idiot newbie. PvP is weaksauce. They kill PvE and people quit. They don't turn to PvP. That's how it works. PvE ***is*** STO. They kill it, they kill the game, and your precious sub-culture suffers by proxy. So show a little non-selfish consideration, eh?
first of all i didnt say any where to kill pve and is it selfish to tell people its faster to farm dil in pvp vs pve and to want more people to try differnt aspects of the game everyone in this thread is pissed off because why less dil...omg try something new i can max 8k dil in 35mins pvp style and with my best pve group 3k 30mins so ya it would be nice to have more in the qs but if the are like u then forget it but im sure they are not ur just pissed off cause ur chaseing rats all day. how about the fact that u cant chain certian stf anymore or did u even know u could do that probly not cause u have never had enough dps to do it dont troll me man...u will lose like always
See u on the battlefield rainbowbright@Ratcatcher
anyone who would like to be shown how to make 1440dil every 3-4mins with no end
contact @LIVIN in game 8D
Answer NO. THey partially solved one problem but there are SOOOO many others. Uninstall S7 and start over Cryptic.
Make KDF an option for new players at the start, not till they do fed to 25. Fix the KDF fleet ships. Feds get a discount for the zen ship purchase, why not KDF. and for a new story arc. CREATE A ROMULUAN FACTION! You have a ton of options there just from what you created. New Romulus as is is too much Defari. we where promised more story and the looks of it that was not true.
doff prices are still insane, so adding dil rewards back to stf's actually did nothing to solve that.
and it's still a case of oldtimers or people who have what they want who don't care about a lot of the dil increases for everything vs newcomers who are still trying to get doffed and geared up.
reducing doff prices to 1/5 of their current value would be reasonable, especially considering the cost 5x duty officers + dil and you get a random. that's less of a burden on new players or players with multiple alts then the current prices.
simply put cryptic, trying to force sales on one item or down one or 2 avenues fails. trying to sell doff packs and zen for the exchange equates to people buying less of everything else.
diversify if you want strong CS sales. have weekly sales of items. add more fashions for ships and player avatars. old adage you have to spend at least some money to make money (design/dev costs) what you tried and are doing in S7 was pure laziness by altering game mechanics. you didn't even need to add the content to pull that off.
just moving some numbers around and instant higher prices for everything with reduced income. while you did add new content...it wasn't necessary for the changes.. they could have been done at anytime.
as admiralq1732 said above, you seriously need to get off your collective posteriors about the klingon faction. fed is more popular simply because of your own restrictions on the klingons. so it's an artificially induced imbalance promoted by your decisions. claiming that fed faction earns you more and is the one to push content for is a fail when you weigh the dice at every turn in that factions favor.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
PUG groups suck b/c no one talks! You win STFs by having a plan, to have a plan you must speak to one another. It ok to use your keyboard folks. We all understand, that while leveling up you probably never needed to speak to anyone. Thats fine but now is the time to reach out and communicate! It won't hurt I promise!
Comments
because fleet actions are tedious and boring.
Of bigger concern is the fact that Cryptic, and Dstahl specifically, squandered all and any goodwill and credibility that a successful S7 launch could have generated. Their promises are worth absolutely nothing, and very few folks are going to forget how blatantly and unapologetically this change was initially forced, despite near unanimous opposition during "testing".
Simply put, folks were dubious before, now they flat out expect to be lied to at every turn. Not the situation you want to put your revenue stream in.
Not because I wanted *more* Dilithium in STFs. I hate running STFs. They take a long time and aren't all that fun, and I don't really care about the anti-borg gear. I'm annoyed because prior to all the ********, you could spend half the time doing a fleet action, and get three times the dilithium.
Now? Not so much. Man, ****** the whining. Maybe I should start talking about canceling my lifetime subscription over this if that's what it takes to get Cryptic to change.
(Or better yet, I'll complain about it when I write up my article on it at geekparty.com)
So we should just instantly forget about how Cryptic tried to treat us, and praise them for only slightly nerfing dilithium? Should I thank the mugger who only steals 80% of what's in my pocket?
Considering they never posted at all about removing dilithium completely from STFs until after the fact, the storm that stirred up forced them into action only a day after.
Yes, they should apologize for how they treated us, and for what they tried to pull on us. Didn't even have the decency to tell us until after they'd done the deed and removed dilithium completely, because they knew what a storm it would create, only they were hoping it wouldn't be quite so big that they could ignore it and it would eventually go away.
They don't even have the balls to but their 'announcement' on the front page of this site, merely hide it in the news forum and an edited dev blog. Why hide it like that? Afraid of the negative publicity they'd get for what they tried to do?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And if you see back in this thread, I'm pratically immune to being burned, lied to, or stuff like that. So I personally think people don't have to apologize for doing those kinds of things to people. Just have both groups move on, and not waste time doing so.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
As is, it's still fubar, but I am rather impressed that it only took a day for them to reverse this. Kudos to them for listening, but we're not out of the woods yet. They still have the issue of having blatantly lied to our faces, and still have the issue of a lot of HUGE bugs and other problems that came with the new season.
But I can live with this for now.
Instead thanks to the STFers whining it's back to risking a pug or wasting time trying to get a team togther, all to do mindless and boring content I've played to death. Now if I want to max out my dilithium I'm going to have to spend hours.
Well done, you've scored a victory for cryptic.
So are STFs, the difference is fleet actions are quicker.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
This is pretty much *exactly* how I feel, and I've only been playing since the game went F2P.
While I can appreciate that some time is actually being spent to consider the reaction of the community, the gravest mistake is to assume they are your inferior. They/We are human customers, not puppets with wallets.
This was a nice.. dance.. but the outrage that occurred yesterday is a symptom, not the problem itself. Should Cryptic, and by proxy PWE, want to avoid this.. danger.. in the future, they need to address the core issue that is causing these problems.
There is potential for the future of this game in this line alone, but the question is whether or not there will be any weight behind it as we move forward...
Events such as this shake and disillusion customers. The ripples of distrust this has sparked.. is going to take a lot of hard work and time to mend. People have stuck with this game through a lot of 'mistakes' in the past, but it is never a good idea to find out where that breaking point actually is.
Personally, to answer the OP's question, No. My emotional reaction to this.. 'compromise'.. would be.. Bitter.
I still feel there should be a loot reward for completing the optional so as to make that challenge not entirely meaningless(on par with achieving top honors in fleet actions). Additionally, I still do not find the one-sided changes to the Doff system to be acceptable. The dilithium income/expense ratio needs to be relaxed before that one.. can be swallowed. (nothing less than a 30% reduction in cost, or a significant increase of dilithium rewards)
PS
to any and all who afk stfs
if sto was smart they would put anf afk kick button into the Qs
and to all those who have had the afker report and ignore them
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
Plus, I *like* my rainbow beam boat.
TASTE THE RAINBOW, MOTHA ****AS!
And before everyone says, "play STFs!", I really don't have the motivation to do that. I've been playing this game since February, and in that time I've seen so much of the, "if you don't play STFs you're not doing the game right," sort of attitude, along with the whole 'Elite STF players are better than you' type of thing, and it's utterly turned me off the whole game mode. And now, because I have no interest in STFs, I'm getting punished with yet another reduction in the amount of Dilithium I can earn in a day. And they have the nerve to sell this as some massive favour to the community? No. Sorry, but no. It stinks. The Dilithium economy was working fine before you started messing about with it in a transparent attempt to make us buy more Zen and convert it.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
TRUE if there was a fix it should have increase the amount of dilithium we receive not cut.
Now everything cost dilithium even stuff that was free now cost dilithium, when everyone gets to the end game items they will see the cost for xii maco is 80000+ dilithium i hope you save for it.
I think its a good compromise. Cryptic did not have to make this change. We would have complained bitterly and maybe gone somewhere else (unlikely at this point) but they took a step to make a good compromise that still moved towards where they want the game to be while still provinding a reason to PVE, STF and do the fleet tasks that help earn reputation and further the new mechanics.
Overall I think it is a good step, the new content is nifty, although the Tholian Red Alert seems broken to hell and gone. overall I think it was a good update and I like the new story Arc.
Yes I'm a lifer, and NoI don't play nearly as much as I used to but I still play a coupe of times a week and mostly enjoy the experience and will continue to play and occasionally buy new content when something really nifty happens.
so settle back, relax, enjoy it or else go play with your lightsaber next to the guy who looks just like you.
Cheers,
FyreMouse
I earned my 1000 days the hard way and I still come back...
What if I get bored with Elite STFs, generally hate the people I wind up in PUGs with, and just want to get lots of Dilithium to buy pretty new ships and clothes?
LOL If any of you can agree with this, I have a chair to sell you with no legs on it. Then a Month later I will offer the legs for 100 dollars a piece. After another month I will offer you the back to the chair for only 1000 dollars. The Ferengi would be pleased.
No.
Is there anything that can be done to convince PWE to revert back to the pre-S7 (as far as Dilithium/Rewards are concerned) model?
No.
I don't know if I'll ever spend REAL money on STO again, THAT is something we ALL have control over.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Don't PUG.
This is an MMO. there are MANY, MANY people on at any given time and there's an STF chat channel to help you avoid PUGging.
You just want ships and clothes? GO mine dilithium and grind it out in the fleet actions.
I'd rather get SOME dilithium in addition to my omega marks, since those are the only ways to get end game gear now.
first of all i didnt say any where to kill pve and is it selfish to tell people its faster to farm dil in pvp vs pve and to want more people to try differnt aspects of the game everyone in this thread is pissed off because why less dil...omg try something new i can max 8k dil in 35mins pvp style and with my best pve group 3k 30mins so ya it would be nice to have more in the qs but if the are like u then forget it but im sure they are not ur just pissed off cause ur chaseing rats all day. how about the fact that u cant chain certian stf anymore or did u even know u could do that probly not cause u have never had enough dps to do it dont troll me man...u will lose like always
See u on the battlefield rainbowbright@Ratcatcher
anyone who would like to be shown how to make 1440dil every 3-4mins with no end
contact
@LIVIN in game 8D
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
Make KDF an option for new players at the start, not till they do fed to 25. Fix the KDF fleet ships. Feds get a discount for the zen ship purchase, why not KDF. and for a new story arc. CREATE A ROMULUAN FACTION! You have a ton of options there just from what you created. New Romulus as is is too much Defari. we where promised more story and the looks of it that was not true.
and it's still a case of oldtimers or people who have what they want who don't care about a lot of the dil increases for everything vs newcomers who are still trying to get doffed and geared up.
reducing doff prices to 1/5 of their current value would be reasonable, especially considering the cost 5x duty officers + dil and you get a random. that's less of a burden on new players or players with multiple alts then the current prices.
simply put cryptic, trying to force sales on one item or down one or 2 avenues fails. trying to sell doff packs and zen for the exchange equates to people buying less of everything else.
diversify if you want strong CS sales. have weekly sales of items. add more fashions for ships and player avatars. old adage you have to spend at least some money to make money (design/dev costs) what you tried and are doing in S7 was pure laziness by altering game mechanics. you didn't even need to add the content to pull that off.
just moving some numbers around and instant higher prices for everything with reduced income. while you did add new content...it wasn't necessary for the changes.. they could have been done at anytime.
as admiralq1732 said above, you seriously need to get off your collective posteriors about the klingon faction. fed is more popular simply because of your own restrictions on the klingons. so it's an artificially induced imbalance promoted by your decisions. claiming that fed faction earns you more and is the one to push content for is a fail when you weigh the dice at every turn in that factions favor.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Great quote, now here's one for you. "So this is how STO dies. With endless grinds."