If I assume that he is competent, I would say that:
Dstahl is making poor excuses for some directive from above. More ZEN! More ZEN! The logic behind the post just doesn't add up. It's an attempt to use whatever excuse possible to force us to play the game a certain way, which happens to be good for PWE.
God, I feel sorry for the folks who work for this company, especially if they are Star Trek fans.
I wonder if they miss the Atari days. There weren't cups in the break room, but at least they cared about story and Trek. Now it comes down to numbers and a desperate attempt to squeeze who is left of this train wreck.
Traslation of post by dev:
"AlL your $$ are belong to us, buy ZEN or leave!"
everyone finds the whole "logic" of the post to be, well, illogic (stupid in Layman's terms) cause everyone is applying Vulcan logic, but this is Ferengi logic, "they don't refine enoguh Dilithium, make it an even more needed commodity by increasing the stuff they need to buy with and reducing ways of getting it -for FREE- they already spend almost 4 hours a day in the game on average... now make them pay2play!!!
Frankly the game won't see Season 8 at this rate (or at least a large amount of actual players)
Keep Vulcan Boob Chick, only baktag likes to stare at guys in MMOs
I have a lifer subscription bought 5 days after I bought the game. Its great, flying round blowing ships away. Pre Fleet alert Starbase 24 was a mission I played a number of times so this isn't a grind however.
I beleive it was FIRMLY stated that STFS would continue to get dilithium albiet at a reduced rate.
Also when I heard Fleet events were gaining dilithium I imagined that meant the Fleet Mark missions such as Fleet alert, and Blockade would gain dilithium kinda made sense as Fleet Starbases ultimately require millions of dilithium. And as once built you need dilithium to purchase the equipment.
I would request reinstate some measure of dilithium even if only the 480 rate for stfs and re-add the equipment drops. Add dilithium to Fleet Marks events, to progress a Starbase is too much of a grind on the Starbase front unless willing to take a frustrating amount of time especially if looking to complete the 200K special projects that runs along side normal fleet building.
Grinding is not fun, we accept the cap, any reasonable player accepts your wishing to stop dilithium farmers exploiting. I work for a living, and have only a limited amount of time to enjoy the game especially with the comitment to building a base.
Grinding is not fun, players will not stay if there is no fun. Players look to STO as a means of relaxation, not more stress and aggravation.
No dilithium for STFs is absolute TRIBBLE. I was fine with the reduction from 1100 to 960. The lying and contradictory statements are way over the line. I wish I wasn't an LTS, so I could cancel my sub in protest. I certainly won't be buying any more Zen until this gets changed.
This is seriously ridiculous, if they wanna move the dilithium rewards to indirect rewards via projects then fine, but make the ratios higher to have them be at least be close to on par. Like 50 marks for 1000 dilithium and 5 processors for 2000, because you have to keep in mind that those currencies are also spent on the gear and reputation projects
Example
Elite pre s7-1440 dilithium plus stf item currencies
Elite post s7 - elite stf currencies or 1000 dilithium ((you have to pick one or the other each run))
Upping the payouts from turnin projects would fix this if you want to keep it indirect
Otherwise saying "we want to increase the amount of dilithium earned" while simultaneously nerfing the stf dilithium reward kinda makes me wanna link Stahl/whoever designed this change here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron
Concern 1 ? Active level 50 players are refining far less Dilithium than we expect them to.
If it is true that players aren't refining enough dilithium, then there are several problems with the way dilithium works in season 7 that will hinder that goal. I understand why you altered the B'Tran daily and removing the Foundry clickies; those make sense from a balance perspective (though I will personally miss them). However, there are other issues that will prevent you from reaching the goal of players refining more dilithium. Here's the breakdown as I understand it.
You took away too much of the dilithium reward from STFs, which was once the primary source of dilithium for a number of players.
You added a number of dilithium sinks without adding equivalent dilithium sources.
Large sections of the game's content doesn't award dilithium, thus it is not a true time currency.
I have some suggestions about how you could make dilithium more accessible and make it truly a "time currency" without reverting most of the changes you've currently made in season 7.
Increase the ratio for Omega Mark conversion to dilithium.
Add a way to convert Romulan Marks to dilithium.
Add a small amount of dilithium to all replays in the "Episode" panel. This would be particularly helpful for level 50 captains playing with lower level friends.
Add dilithium to all events in the PvE queue. If it's something that awards a different currency primarily, then just tack on a little bit of dilithium, say, 240 dilithium for Fleet Alert and Starbase Blockade in addition to the Fleet Mark rewards. Fleet Actions will still award far more dilithium, but without any other currency.
Remove the dilithium requirements for the Embassy projects "Generate Diplomatic Contacts" and "Participate in Outreach Programs". This way they would be equivalent to the basic Starbase experience projects. This would also make Embassies far more manageable for small fleets.
Add more high-risk long-duration DOff assignments that award high amounts of dilithium. There are already a handful of good ones like "Dilithium Mining in an Unstable Asteroid Cluster"; add a few more for variety and to reward active use of the DOff system.
As it is right now, gaining significant amounts of dilithium requires grinding specifically for dilithium to the exclusion of most other resources. The changes I've proposed would alter it so that players would truly earn adequate amounts of dilithium simply by playing the game, while still providing avenues to grind larger amounts of dilithium to the exclusion of other resources.
Just like Asif Mandvi said about Free to Play games on The Daily Show:
"The games are free...until they suck."
In any case Dan, there is no defense for this. You lied. Bull****ted. Hoodwinked. Obfuscated and otherwise engaged in chicanery, tom-foolery and other type of ballyhoo.
You should be ashamed. This isn't fanboy nerdrage; this is a fact. Put yourselves in our position, how would you feel?
If you would have spent a fraction of the time reading our posts that you did posting that TOME of a Blog post, you would understand.
I don't usually go for all this reactionary BS when it comes to game changes, nor do I usually post on these forums.
Time sinks are inherent to MMO's, but one of the beauties of STO is the more casual nature that it fostered.
I had unsubbed for a a while, and was strictly FTP for a long time, but I came back during the "buy three months and it's cheaper" deal. I was intending on letting it keep going despite my tight budget since it was a better..."cheaper" deal.
I used to buy a lot of stuff from the C-Store when I had the extra cash, but since there's less and less there, there's been little reason for me to spend any cash there - especially since the buying Zen thing gives me a headache now.
So I'm cancelling my "3 months is cheaper" deal, because the value vs. time - my casual time - just really isn't there anymore.
Sad thing is, I'm not even a part of a fleet, and I don't play STF's, so this new system actually benefits me more because I'm a clothes "ho" and now I could potentially more easily earn that gear I've wanted for a while but couldn't get.
Instead, I've lost interest in the game.
Time sink is one thing, but the value of that time has to be equaled in the pay-out, and there's nothing that draws me to spending massive amounts of time on each of my characters to get what are essentially "cosmetic" items, since I don't PVP, I don't play STF's and I can basically run ragged over any PVE group I find on land or in space with the non-purple gear I've already got.
Ironically, I've been one of those few that has been able to cross that mythical and elusive Dilithium refining threshold during my casual play. Not every day mind you, but quite often.
I know I'm in the minority, but I signed on to this game to play in the Star Trek universe - and I was willing to pay for it - but Star Trek has nothing to do with grinding hours and hours of the exact same content over and over again for what is essentially a trinket that I have to get a bazillion of in order to get some other trinket that I actually want.
I get that it's an MMO and therefore it has to follow a certain MMO logic. But at some point in the development of this game you guys - you new bastions of the OLD Star Trek and keepers of the post-J.J. Abrams TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY and ENT flame (otherwise known as the legacy) - you seem to have lost your way and forgotten what drew the casual players to STO. The ones that have never played an MMO in their life but came here BECAUSE it was Star Trek, and, in this day and age, are starved for the experience of revisiting the franchise in any means necessary.
So yeah, this is kinda a "I quit" post. I'd give you my stuff, but unfortunately it's all bound to my account or my characters. Because apparently that's what happens to Starfleet in the future.
Yeah...apologies if I sound bitter all of the sudden.
It was an amazing game, and I got giddy when you came back Stahl. I've still got hopes you can make it all work, but man, this isn't even nearly close to the way to make that happen.
completely ridiculous and almost insulting. People just do not like when you take things away,
and you took dilithium prospects away in spades.
What thought was their in this new to old ratio? How was this defended and rationalized internally? This seems like a case of top to bottom management and it is such bad bad form.
So yeah, this is kinda a "I quit" post. I'd give you my stuff, but unfortunately it's all bound to my account or my characters. Because apparently that's what happens to Starfleet in the future.
I LOL'd at this.
/Can I have your stuff? I'm am going to have a big "Players that have left ST:O" giveaway orgy....
Just a few days ago you faced the players rage like a hero in that thread about lost dilithium rates.
It seemed you went out of your way to make sure we get it at least back up to 480/960 for STFs.
Why, why, why, why,why,why,why would you ever do this to yourself to take all the flak from the players if you never intended this to be true in the first place.
And I don't believe for a second now, that the plan a few days ago was different!
And yeah, not enough players were refining your dilithium target? Not enough players played content that rewarded dilithium?
The one content that WAS grinded without end? You nerf it to oblivion.
Great.
So funnel everyone, noobs and elites alike, into the oldest Mickey Mouse content you have...
Except this time, I think, building it won't mean they will come...
Just a few days ago you faced the players rage like a hero in that thread about lost dilithium rates.
It seemed you went out of your way to make sure we get it at least back up to 480/960 for STFs.
Why, why, why, why,why,why,why would you ever do this to yourself to take all the flak from the players if you never intended this to be true in the first place.
And I don't believe for a second now, that the plan a few days ago was different!
And yeah, not enough players were refining your dilithium target? Not enough players played content that rewarded dilithium?
The one content that WAS grinded without end? You nerf it to oblivion.
Great.
So funnel everyone, noobs and elites alike, into the oldest Mickey Mouse content you have...
Except this time, I think, building it won't mean they will come...
FA are nice as a diversion, NOT for grinding...
totaly agree man im lost for words i dont see how some people not making cap and they say thats what they want?!? so they take more dilth away WTF is doesnt make any sense.
after this hype and waiting for season 7.... i wish it was never relased.
the FEW possitive changes were totally undone the second they nuked dilth and bottle necking players into parts of the game, is not the way to do it. for the love of baby jesus why dont they sit down read the posts they had to of know that ws going ***** off the player base.
season 7 content i like the currency and laughable rewards i dont.
word of advice cryptic add rewards to all the content episodes fleeties and stfs give us a reason to play the game not take it away. reward your players for time spent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. time based currency LOLOLOLOL.
PS stop posting fed ship after fed after ship you do know there TWO factions and u talk of possible 3rd faction EVEN you must how stupid that sounds.
if this was my company id want someones head for this mess.
I'm stuck between anger, rage, and just laughing at how ridiculous this actually is. You say you want people to refine more dilithium, then you take away a major source of dilithium for most people. You say you took it out of dilithium because you took the dilithium cost out the rep system, but you didn't because all the gear that you want to unlock via the rep system requires dilithium to buy. Then you say we didn't take it way we moved it into the oldest content in the game, that has never worked as intended. I warped into SB 24 four times in a row via the PVE queue and was immediately removed because I wasn't placed on a full team. Then I tried Klingon Scout Force where we spent more time flying in circles waiting for things to respawn to so could kill the right amount of them before moving the mission along. These missions were never played for 2 reasons 1) rewards where TRIBBLE as the missions where made to help level and 2) THEY SUCK. You remastered the STF's for a reason, content made for team play when the game launched SUCKED. To force us to do it now is ridiculous. You want them played more, ok...add the rewards, they'll get played more, but don't make them the only reliable source of things we need in the game. Dilithium is not a time currency. If it was we would get it for doing ANYTHING IN THIS GAME as a reward just for playing. As it stands now, dilithium is a grinding currency. You can only get it if you grind a Cryptic determined set of missions over and over and over again. This does not equal a long lasting fun experience for players.
there's been way too much lying on Cryptic's end, and i'm glad that this is getting so much attention from the forums. Frankly it almost seems like Cryptic is shooting themselves on purpose just to spite PWE. It's messed up and frankly they deserve what ever fall out they get for it.
"Concern 1 : players are refining far less Dilithium than we expect them to... so we decided to nerf the dilithium grind."
This is the final proof that with destruction of Vulcan logic became a rare commodity in the alpha quadrant. Damn you JJ Abrams! It's all your fault!
[SIGPIC]Join Date: August 2009[/SIGPIC] I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
I really wish I had less negative sounding words to say here, but I feel lied to, betrayed.
Repeatedly on the forums here we were reassured that dilithium would still be an end mission reward from STFs and you u-turn at the last possible minute to stab us all in the back.
Someone at cryptic needs to go and get an economics degree... you don't increase supply by cutting out sources. If someone is not already putting in the time, making it harder isn't going to get someone to play more. You basically have told the player base to TRIBBLE off with your opening remarks about how "it's of Cryptic's choosing". Just like any other business you are still accountable to your shareholders and moreover your customers. So don't snub your customers for your own arrogance.
What I get from this article is, pay us money for zen to get dilithium. We are being told that we should play 4 hours of dilithium missions a day and those missions are all the old, stale, and even broken content and we should have to do this for months to get the gear. People should get dilithium from their very first mission and earn it as you level up slowly like before F2P... having everyone rush through the content only to grind for several months is pathetic... I don't even bother to change ships on a new toon because I'm only in it for a day when leveling.
I already started to pull away from this game... the only reason I still play is because of the investment I have already put in it. As an Investment guy though I also know when it's time to cut your losses and dump the junk and take the hit. In the last month I have been looking around and played trough Mass Effect 3 and with SWTOR going F2P this week I'll probably give it a try as well and maybe even spend some money for at least a one month sub to get the good stuff. There is also a new Trek game coming out in 2013 so another reason you should be catering to your paying player base. You all are just not giving us paying folks anything to pay for except lame excuses to justify poor economic decisions. Maybe you should go back to Zynga it might just have been the right fit afterall seeing how thats a sinking ship too.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Concern 1 ? Active level 50 players are refining far less Dilithium than we expect them to.
Prior to Season 7, the average amount of Dilithium refined by an active level 50 player was 3100 per session or 13,250 per week. That is far less than the cap of 8000 per day when you consider that most level 50 players play multiple days per week and slightly more than the average hours per session.
all the people i have seen in sto moan about the 8k cap , i also earn more than 8 k a day so what are you talking about mr Stahl ? . where is the dilithium in the fleet actions ? , i have played over a dozen today and not got any :mad:
Someone at cryptic needs to go and get an economics degree... you don't increase supply by cutting out sources. If someone is not already putting in the time, making it harder isn't going to get someone to play more. You basically have told the player base to TRIBBLE off with your opening remarks about how "it's of Cryptic's choosing". Just like any other business you are still accountable to your shareholders and moreover your customers. So don't snub your customers for your own arrogance.
What I get from this article is, pay us money for zen to get dilithium. We are being told that we should play 4 hours of dilithium missions a day and those missions are all the old, stale, and even broken content and we should have to do this for months to get the gear. People should get dilithium from their very first mission and earn it as you level up slowly like before F2P... having everyone rush through the content only to grind for several months is pathetic... I don't even bother to change ships on a new toon because I'm only in it for a day when leveling.
I already started to pull away from this game... the only reason I still play is because of the investment I have already put in it. As an Investment guy though I also know when it's time to cut your losses and dump the junk and take the hit. In the last month I have been looking around and played trough Mass Effect 3 and with SWTOR going F2P this week I'll probably give it a try as well and maybe even spend some money for at least a one month sub to get the good stuff. There is also a new Trek game coming out in 2013 so another reason you should be catering to your paying player base. You all are just not giving us paying folks anything to pay for except lame excuses to justify poor economic decisions. Maybe you should go back to Zynga it might just have been the right fit afterall seeing how thats a sinking ship too.
That's not it. 8k a day is easier now, assuming you have no alts, because of Fleet Actions.
However, I do think they were less than straight with us on Tribble. And I feel disrespected by that.
Cryptic Math: Oh a player with 10 level 50 chars, but only 2 of those chars have capped Dilithium Today, that means that only 20% of our playerbase is refining dilithium!!!!!
I just... I have no words for how MONUMENTALLY STUPID you guys are being with Season 7... just... wow...
Yeah... no more money from me after today. My sub runs out on Dec. 12th... and then I'll go F2P and never buy a thing from you again. And that sucks for you cause I was gonna buy the Vesta pack, but nah... thats gone now... And I only had to pay you $10 bucks for the Steamrunner... so you made less of a profit on me than you would have after Thursday.
Just posted this on the Blog scroll, but in case the Devs aren't looking at that too closely:
Even I have to say "Wow." DStahl, you stated in the recent state of the game STFs would CONTINUE to reward Dilithium via playthroughs. Also, when players reported STFs were not awarding Dilithium just a few days ago; we were all told, "It's a bug..." Seriously talk about a "bait and switch" situation.
Dan it's abundantly clear that while you work and oversee STO; you've NEVER really played it like an "Average Player". That is so abundantly clear now. One thing an EP should do occasionally (IMO) is play his own game like the real players do (and playtesting content and making adjustments SOLELY on data mining is just bad policy.)
About a year ago, you specifically said, "Judge me on what we do..." - and doing that after seeing what you implemented today AFTER telling us ALL something different just a few days ago, all I can say is: Major fail.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
That's not it. 8k a day is easier now, assuming you have no alts, because of Fleet Actions.
However, I do think they were less than straight with us on Tribble. And I feel disrespected by that.
Please restore some of my faith that you are an intelligent person, who can call a spade a spade:
Change this euphemism "less than straight" to the more accurate single word that is most direct and to the point. You are too smart for me to have to tell you what that word is.
Someone at cryptic needs to go and get an economics degree... you don't increase supply by cutting out sources. If someone is not already putting in the time, making it harder isn't going to get someone to play more. You basically have told the player base to TRIBBLE off with your opening remarks about how "it's of Cryptic's choosing". Just like any other business you are still accountable to your shareholders and moreover your customers. So don't snub your customers for your own arrogance.
What I get from this article is, pay us money for zen to get dilithium. We are being told that we should play 4 hours of dilithium missions a day and those missions are all the old, stale, and even broken content and we should have to do this for months to get the gear. People should get dilithium from their very first mission and earn it as you level up slowly like before F2P... having everyone rush through the content only to grind for several months is pathetic... I don't even bother to change ships on a new toon because I'm only in it for a day when leveling.
I already started to pull away from this game... the only reason I still play is because of the investment I have already put in it. As an Investment guy though I also know when it's time to cut your losses and dump the junk and take the hit. In the last month I have been looking around and played trough Mass Effect 3 and with SWTOR going F2P this week I'll probably give it a try as well and maybe even spend some money for at least a one month sub to get the good stuff. There is also a new Trek game coming out in 2013 so another reason you should be catering to your paying player base. You all are just not giving us paying folks anything to pay for except lame excuses to justify poor economic decisions. Maybe you should go back to Zynga it might just have been the right fit afterall seeing how thats a sinking ship too.
They got their Econ degree from the "Barack Obama School of TRIBBLE You." At any rate, I doubt this will change. We forum posters are, as DStahl so aptly put it, merely a "vocal minority."
That's not it. 8k a day is easier now, assuming you have no alts, because of Fleet Actions.
However, I do think they were less than straight with us on Tribble. And I feel disrespected by that.
I agree with this. I do remember thinging that the dilithium from STFs was going away when they said that they were removing it from the xp missions in the rep system. But then I found the posts by the devs about there stil being dilithium rewards from STFs, and I believed.
Well, not anymore.
By the way Dan, your marketting has failed to change my view point. I will continue to grind out less than 8000 dilithium on one or two characters on days I play. I will not continue to pump money into the game, I have an LTS, if I want something, I'll wait until my monthly zen points let me get it, or trade some dilithium for zen. Honestly, I'll be saving my money to go back to EvE Online. At least there when the management did something the player's didn't like, they had the guts to come out and say sorry.
There exactly 2 Fleet Action missions I find entertaining, those are Big Dig for the fast pace and after the revamp it is actually playable for a 5 man team. others may not agrree with me here. only flaw here, is that Captain Kirk tacs, who know how to exploit their abilities, will win out every single time if they are too opportunistic.
The other is Breaking the Planet which is just a gorgeous map with a nice escalating progression that moves you in a nice circle at a fast pace and actually requires teamwork (the only one that does). Leaving someone behind or rushing ahead is suicide.
Starbase 24 is just dumb with way too many spawns all at the same place. At the very least you should turn the starbase into a fighting entity now that you have the tech for that that keeps a majority of the aggro throughout the fight.
100 Ships on a handful of players is not fun.
This mission doesnt reward teamplay in the slightest.
Gorn Minefield suffers from similar problems. Way too many spawns on top of the first objectives. And since the spawns keep you in red alert the progression window never pops up unless you die and respawn.
That leads to a lot of people who simply don't notice that the important battle has moved elsewhere.
This is not fun.
Klingon Scout Force reverses the spawn mechanic. They are far and few between and enemy ships get facerolled by the players.
It is the best from the space Fleet Actions, but the bar is pretty low in the first place.
2 Out of 5 enjoyable missions which you want to be the primary content played now does not work.
All these missions should have gotten a remaster treatment to make it more engaging and fun to play.
Give the players a reason to work together, give it a balance pass and apply some new fancy tech.
Maybe then it will be accepted as a substitute for STF farming.
The missions in principle have potential, but not in the beta state they are still in since launch.
And while we are on that subject of PvE:
Please, please, please fix that Private Challenge bug that prevents us from launching the match even after assembling a full team. So we can at least use those missions for private fleet events.
Comments
Dstahl is making poor excuses for some directive from above. More ZEN! More ZEN! The logic behind the post just doesn't add up. It's an attempt to use whatever excuse possible to force us to play the game a certain way, which happens to be good for PWE.
God, I feel sorry for the folks who work for this company, especially if they are Star Trek fans.
I wonder if they miss the Atari days. There weren't cups in the break room, but at least they cared about story and Trek. Now it comes down to numbers and a desperate attempt to squeeze who is left of this train wreck.
It is sad to watch.
"AlL your $$ are belong to us, buy ZEN or leave!"
everyone finds the whole "logic" of the post to be, well, illogic (stupid in Layman's terms) cause everyone is applying Vulcan logic, but this is Ferengi logic, "they don't refine enoguh Dilithium, make it an even more needed commodity by increasing the stuff they need to buy with and reducing ways of getting it -for FREE- they already spend almost 4 hours a day in the game on average... now make them pay2play!!!
Frankly the game won't see Season 8 at this rate (or at least a large amount of actual players)
I beleive it was FIRMLY stated that STFS would continue to get dilithium albiet at a reduced rate.
Also when I heard Fleet events were gaining dilithium I imagined that meant the Fleet Mark missions such as Fleet alert, and Blockade would gain dilithium kinda made sense as Fleet Starbases ultimately require millions of dilithium. And as once built you need dilithium to purchase the equipment.
I would request reinstate some measure of dilithium even if only the 480 rate for stfs and re-add the equipment drops. Add dilithium to Fleet Marks events, to progress a Starbase is too much of a grind on the Starbase front unless willing to take a frustrating amount of time especially if looking to complete the 200K special projects that runs along side normal fleet building.
Grinding is not fun, we accept the cap, any reasonable player accepts your wishing to stop dilithium farmers exploiting. I work for a living, and have only a limited amount of time to enjoy the game especially with the comitment to building a base.
Grinding is not fun, players will not stay if there is no fun. Players look to STO as a means of relaxation, not more stress and aggravation.
Example
Elite pre s7-1440 dilithium plus stf item currencies
Elite post s7 - elite stf currencies or 1000 dilithium ((you have to pick one or the other each run))
Upping the payouts from turnin projects would fix this if you want to keep it indirect
Otherwise saying "we want to increase the amount of dilithium earned" while simultaneously nerfing the stf dilithium reward kinda makes me wanna link Stahl/whoever designed this change here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron
If it is true that players aren't refining enough dilithium, then there are several problems with the way dilithium works in season 7 that will hinder that goal. I understand why you altered the B'Tran daily and removing the Foundry clickies; those make sense from a balance perspective (though I will personally miss them). However, there are other issues that will prevent you from reaching the goal of players refining more dilithium. Here's the breakdown as I understand it.
I have some suggestions about how you could make dilithium more accessible and make it truly a "time currency" without reverting most of the changes you've currently made in season 7.
As it is right now, gaining significant amounts of dilithium requires grinding specifically for dilithium to the exclusion of most other resources. The changes I've proposed would alter it so that players would truly earn adequate amounts of dilithium simply by playing the game, while still providing avenues to grind larger amounts of dilithium to the exclusion of other resources.
"The games are free...until they suck."
In any case Dan, there is no defense for this. You lied. Bull****ted. Hoodwinked. Obfuscated and otherwise engaged in chicanery, tom-foolery and other type of ballyhoo.
You should be ashamed. This isn't fanboy nerdrage; this is a fact. Put yourselves in our position, how would you feel?
If you would have spent a fraction of the time reading our posts that you did posting that TOME of a Blog post, you would understand.
This game has gone pear-shaped.
Time sinks are inherent to MMO's, but one of the beauties of STO is the more casual nature that it fostered.
I had unsubbed for a a while, and was strictly FTP for a long time, but I came back during the "buy three months and it's cheaper" deal. I was intending on letting it keep going despite my tight budget since it was a better..."cheaper" deal.
I used to buy a lot of stuff from the C-Store when I had the extra cash, but since there's less and less there, there's been little reason for me to spend any cash there - especially since the buying Zen thing gives me a headache now.
So I'm cancelling my "3 months is cheaper" deal, because the value vs. time - my casual time - just really isn't there anymore.
Sad thing is, I'm not even a part of a fleet, and I don't play STF's, so this new system actually benefits me more because I'm a clothes "ho" and now I could potentially more easily earn that gear I've wanted for a while but couldn't get.
Instead, I've lost interest in the game.
Time sink is one thing, but the value of that time has to be equaled in the pay-out, and there's nothing that draws me to spending massive amounts of time on each of my characters to get what are essentially "cosmetic" items, since I don't PVP, I don't play STF's and I can basically run ragged over any PVE group I find on land or in space with the non-purple gear I've already got.
Ironically, I've been one of those few that has been able to cross that mythical and elusive Dilithium refining threshold during my casual play. Not every day mind you, but quite often.
I know I'm in the minority, but I signed on to this game to play in the Star Trek universe - and I was willing to pay for it - but Star Trek has nothing to do with grinding hours and hours of the exact same content over and over again for what is essentially a trinket that I have to get a bazillion of in order to get some other trinket that I actually want.
I get that it's an MMO and therefore it has to follow a certain MMO logic. But at some point in the development of this game you guys - you new bastions of the OLD Star Trek and keepers of the post-J.J. Abrams TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY and ENT flame (otherwise known as the legacy) - you seem to have lost your way and forgotten what drew the casual players to STO. The ones that have never played an MMO in their life but came here BECAUSE it was Star Trek, and, in this day and age, are starved for the experience of revisiting the franchise in any means necessary.
So yeah, this is kinda a "I quit" post. I'd give you my stuff, but unfortunately it's all bound to my account or my characters. Because apparently that's what happens to Starfleet in the future.
Yeah...apologies if I sound bitter all of the sudden.
It was an amazing game, and I got giddy when you came back Stahl. I've still got hopes you can make it all work, but man, this isn't even nearly close to the way to make that happen.
and you took dilithium prospects away in spades.
What thought was their in this new to old ratio? How was this defended and rationalized internally? This seems like a case of top to bottom management and it is such bad bad form.
for shame.
I LOL'd at this.
/Can I have your stuff? I'm am going to have a big "Players that have left ST:O" giveaway orgy....
Just a few days ago you faced the players rage like a hero in that thread about lost dilithium rates.
It seemed you went out of your way to make sure we get it at least back up to 480/960 for STFs.
Why, why, why, why,why,why,why would you ever do this to yourself to take all the flak from the players if you never intended this to be true in the first place.
And I don't believe for a second now, that the plan a few days ago was different!
And yeah, not enough players were refining your dilithium target? Not enough players played content that rewarded dilithium?
The one content that WAS grinded without end? You nerf it to oblivion.
Great.
So funnel everyone, noobs and elites alike, into the oldest Mickey Mouse content you have...
Except this time, I think, building it won't mean they will come...
FA are nice as a diversion, NOT for grinding...
Remember ... I called it first ... http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6492661&postcount=96
And this has spiraled out of control ... which leaves me very sad for a game I love a great deal.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
EPIC FAIL.
Enough said.
I will be playing less now. Much less. And I won't be buying the Vesta either. STO is going the wrong direction. U-Turn wrong direction.
totaly agree man im lost for words i dont see how some people not making cap and they say thats what they want?!? so they take more dilth away WTF is doesnt make any sense.
after this hype and waiting for season 7.... i wish it was never relased.
the FEW possitive changes were totally undone the second they nuked dilth and bottle necking players into parts of the game, is not the way to do it. for the love of baby jesus why dont they sit down read the posts they had to of know that ws going ***** off the player base.
season 7 content i like the currency and laughable rewards i dont.
word of advice cryptic add rewards to all the content episodes fleeties and stfs give us a reason to play the game not take it away. reward your players for time spent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. time based currency LOLOLOLOL.
PS stop posting fed ship after fed after ship you do know there TWO factions and u talk of possible 3rd faction EVEN you must how stupid that sounds.
if this was my company id want someones head for this mess.
This is the final proof that with destruction of Vulcan logic became a rare commodity in the alpha quadrant. Damn you JJ Abrams! It's all your fault!
I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Repeatedly on the forums here we were reassured that dilithium would still be an end mission reward from STFs and you u-turn at the last possible minute to stab us all in the back.
Apparently it was nothing but a lie.
What I get from this article is, pay us money for zen to get dilithium. We are being told that we should play 4 hours of dilithium missions a day and those missions are all the old, stale, and even broken content and we should have to do this for months to get the gear. People should get dilithium from their very first mission and earn it as you level up slowly like before F2P... having everyone rush through the content only to grind for several months is pathetic... I don't even bother to change ships on a new toon because I'm only in it for a day when leveling.
I already started to pull away from this game... the only reason I still play is because of the investment I have already put in it. As an Investment guy though I also know when it's time to cut your losses and dump the junk and take the hit. In the last month I have been looking around and played trough Mass Effect 3 and with SWTOR going F2P this week I'll probably give it a try as well and maybe even spend some money for at least a one month sub to get the good stuff. There is also a new Trek game coming out in 2013 so another reason you should be catering to your paying player base. You all are just not giving us paying folks anything to pay for except lame excuses to justify poor economic decisions. Maybe you should go back to Zynga it might just have been the right fit afterall seeing how thats a sinking ship too.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
all the people i have seen in sto moan about the 8k cap , i also earn more than 8 k a day so what are you talking about mr Stahl ? . where is the dilithium in the fleet actions ? , i have played over a dozen today and not got any :mad:
DELTA PRICE RISING
That's not it. 8k a day is easier now, assuming you have no alts, because of Fleet Actions.
However, I do think they were less than straight with us on Tribble. And I feel disrespected by that.
WE MUST FIX THIS
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
I just... I have no words for how MONUMENTALLY STUPID you guys are being with Season 7... just... wow...
Yeah... no more money from me after today. My sub runs out on Dec. 12th... and then I'll go F2P and never buy a thing from you again. And that sucks for you cause I was gonna buy the Vesta pack, but nah... thats gone now... And I only had to pay you $10 bucks for the Steamrunner... so you made less of a profit on me than you would have after Thursday.
Good job!
Just posted this on the Blog scroll, but in case the Devs aren't looking at that too closely:
Even I have to say "Wow." DStahl, you stated in the recent state of the game STFs would CONTINUE to reward Dilithium via playthroughs. Also, when players reported STFs were not awarding Dilithium just a few days ago; we were all told, "It's a bug..." Seriously talk about a "bait and switch" situation.
Dan it's abundantly clear that while you work and oversee STO; you've NEVER really played it like an "Average Player". That is so abundantly clear now. One thing an EP should do occasionally (IMO) is play his own game like the real players do (and playtesting content and making adjustments SOLELY on data mining is just bad policy.)
About a year ago, you specifically said, "Judge me on what we do..." - and doing that after seeing what you implemented today AFTER telling us ALL something different just a few days ago, all I can say is: Major fail.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Please restore some of my faith that you are an intelligent person, who can call a spade a spade:
Change this euphemism "less than straight" to the more accurate single word that is most direct and to the point. You are too smart for me to have to tell you what that word is.
They got their Econ degree from the "Barack Obama School of TRIBBLE You." At any rate, I doubt this will change. We forum posters are, as DStahl so aptly put it, merely a "vocal minority."
I agree with this. I do remember thinging that the dilithium from STFs was going away when they said that they were removing it from the xp missions in the rep system. But then I found the posts by the devs about there stil being dilithium rewards from STFs, and I believed.
Well, not anymore.
By the way Dan, your marketting has failed to change my view point. I will continue to grind out less than 8000 dilithium on one or two characters on days I play. I will not continue to pump money into the game, I have an LTS, if I want something, I'll wait until my monthly zen points let me get it, or trade some dilithium for zen. Honestly, I'll be saving my money to go back to EvE Online. At least there when the management did something the player's didn't like, they had the guts to come out and say sorry.
Nouveau riche LTS member
The other is Breaking the Planet which is just a gorgeous map with a nice escalating progression that moves you in a nice circle at a fast pace and actually requires teamwork (the only one that does). Leaving someone behind or rushing ahead is suicide.
Starbase 24 is just dumb with way too many spawns all at the same place. At the very least you should turn the starbase into a fighting entity now that you have the tech for that that keeps a majority of the aggro throughout the fight.
100 Ships on a handful of players is not fun.
This mission doesnt reward teamplay in the slightest.
Gorn Minefield suffers from similar problems. Way too many spawns on top of the first objectives. And since the spawns keep you in red alert the progression window never pops up unless you die and respawn.
That leads to a lot of people who simply don't notice that the important battle has moved elsewhere.
This is not fun.
Klingon Scout Force reverses the spawn mechanic. They are far and few between and enemy ships get facerolled by the players.
It is the best from the space Fleet Actions, but the bar is pretty low in the first place.
2 Out of 5 enjoyable missions which you want to be the primary content played now does not work.
All these missions should have gotten a remaster treatment to make it more engaging and fun to play.
Give the players a reason to work together, give it a balance pass and apply some new fancy tech.
Maybe then it will be accepted as a substitute for STF farming.
The missions in principle have potential, but not in the beta state they are still in since launch.
And while we are on that subject of PvE:
Please, please, please fix that Private Challenge bug that prevents us from launching the match even after assembling a full team. So we can at least use those missions for private fleet events.