Guys how did this become the "Season 7 Sophlogimo - Death to PvP" thread? Use that skill we all have in real life to ignore something...
I think the new grind isn't as bad as the starbase grind. However, one grind will inhibit the others' progress.
But I'm taking a step back and looking at us as a unique group of people says a lot of things. Despite all the crappy things that may have happened, its really all natural.
I've been reading a lot about how a lot of other MMOS, particularly WoW, pretty much do the samething every other season if not every season. It's really an endless cycle.
I'm not saying this is enjoyable and welcomed, it is kind of annoying at times. But I think we're a strong group of people in general to overcome such obstacles with constant discussion. Although sometimes the discussion can get testy at times, we somehow seem to be ok in someway or another.
Let's just say "Bring it on" let's see if we can survive another season at this point. lol.
I've been reading a lot about how a lot of other MMOS, particularly WoW, pretty much do the samething every other season if not every season. It's really an endless cycle.
That's something that's kind of struck me as odd - with a lot of the complaints some folks have been making about grinds... I've wondered if this was their first MMO.
People who blame premades for the decline of PVP are wrong.
Why? Because C&H is in just as bad a shape as arenas. And there are no premades in C&H. At least nothing that even remotely compares to arena premades. And in contrast to arenas, one or two really good players on one side are not enough to singlehandedly win a C&H.
So if premades really were the reason for the slow death of PVP, this would be restricted to arenas and we would have a blossoming C&H scene. Since we haven't, premades are not the core of the problem.
So, in order to have the best PVP Gear possible.. you'll have to..
Help a fleet Grind up to the tier of Tactical, Engineering, and Science for the ships, and other items you want..
Help the Fleet Grind up the tiers of the Embassy System..
Grind your own Romulan Marks to level up your personal Reputation with Romulans..
Grind Omega Marks in order to level up your reputation with Omega fleet for Borg stuffs.
Grind Elite STFs to get Reticles in order to get Elite Omega Marks to get some of the gear.. and it's 1 Reticle each Elite STF..And I believe you ONLY get the Reticle if you successfully complete the optional.
And after all that Grinding...about 6 months later...maybe a Year.. you'll finally be ready to PVP optimally.... Maybe... :rolleyes:
I think we nee a new song for all of this..
"IT"S THE CIRCLE OF GRIND!"
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
So, in order to have the best PVP Gear possible.. you'll have to..
Help a fleet Grind up to the tier of Tactical, Engineering, and Science for the ships, and other items you want..
Help the Fleet Grind up the tiers of the Embassy System..
Grind your own Romulan Marks to level up your personal Reputation with Romulans..
Grind Omega Marks in order to level up your reputation with Omega fleet for Borg stuffs.
Grind Elite STFs to get Reticles in order to get Elite Omega Marks to get some of the gear.. and it's 1 Reticle each Elite STF..And I believe you ONLY get the Reticle if you successfully complete the optional.
And after all that Grinding...about 6 months later...maybe a Year.. you'll finally be ready to PVP optimally.... Maybe... :rolleyes:
Season 7 won't be the death of PvP. Why? Because the death to PvP was a long time ago, probably somewhere around Season 3-5, when a large chunk of PvPers realised it wasn't getting any attention. What's left of us are the players who still have hope for Cryptic improving PvP - not much is happening though...
Bah, empty words. Exactly what people said when Dili was introduced, when lockbox ships came, when the fleet system came (an even bigger grind) and now with this small addition. Still, people adapt and learn to play the game in it's new version as well. Grinding a character to the top of the tree is still no slower than other MMOs. Grinding out the rep stuff is no slower than grinding out a XII set in the STFs. (barring cases of extreme luck)
Try to look at it as an increased level-cap.
This ^
Treat it as a fresh skill-cap.
Season 7 is a bedrock for the Romulan faction I'd bet all my EC's on us getting next year. The outcry for a new faction is massive and the potential money is massive too. They're adding a new sector block, new rommie weapons, doffs, boffs, skills etc. It's obvious the Romulan faction is planned.
All that said, no - it's not going to kill PVP, it's not going to empty the queues, if that were a possibility I think the neglect PVP has suffered would have killed it long ago. With siphon drones, overpowered lockbox ships, Borg sets, BFI & SNB DOFFs as the largest layers of the ****cake that is PVP being our main helping, I can't see Season 7's layer to be any worse.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
The thing is all that junk that you mentioned borked skills lockbox ship did not really require work. If you read my first post that is the problem i already spend 20% of my time pveing for pvping i will now be forced into this grind for all my toons. The ammount of pvper that left after each season is scary sure queues still pop but its full of new players and carebears that will quit pvp because really there no reason to pvp in this game. All goodies are in pve
Well, it is actually legal to PvP without all that stuff.
and even beyond that. tardos who spend 99% of game time chasing mkxii sets for fractions of a percentage point increase are gonna let their "true skill" pvp abilities wane into oblivion. I see it now, people whod rather level their 29th toon thru mirror event than do pvp at all. those people are going to continue to suck, regardles of their mounting advantage statistically over players like me.
Theyll laugh hysterically when fighting my non lockbox limited p2w setup with no max level set items or uber gear.And theyll cry, when they still lose.
If you ask me, I have come from games where the potential grind to attain ALL POSSIBLE GEAR is 10 times the human lifespan of the player with greatest longevity. (eve has 100yrs worth of skills to train)-(grinding gear in a persistent world nwn server for top tier gear might get you one drop a week.)
Frankly the bar has been set way way too low, and the difference between the non special items and the sewt/p2w items is marginal at best. The flukey set and one time/5minute powers we have now and those coming simply arent as earthshattering as most players think. Put it into perspective vs all other games and game engines. Then Ill show you something ten times worse and truly unbeatable in comparison, that would take a person months to attain, on one single character.
This games grind is a pathetic joke, where people can still max level characters in 3 days. I maxed mine b4 official release from head starts 3 day bonus, among dozens/hundreds of other skill gamers who have subsequently quoit this lackluster game.
But some of us are fiends for trek arc based space combat, we will be here, maybe not as much or as happily, but well keep coming back.
i implore the reasonable among us, to not quit, because of this sentence :
"it will take me a while to max out gear on all my 37 characters" <<<this would take 1000 lifetimes in Eve. maxing out 1 asingle toon to lvl 40 in a decent nwn1 pw server could take weeks, max gearing him/her years. perspective people
So, in order to have the best PVP Gear possible.. you'll have to..
Help a fleet Grind up to the tier of Tactical, Engineering, and Science for the ships, and other items you want..
Help the Fleet Grind up the tiers of the Embassy System..
Grind your own Romulan Marks to level up your personal Reputation with Romulans..
Grind Omega Marks in order to level up your reputation with Omega fleet for Borg stuffs.
Grind Elite STFs to get Reticles in order to get Elite Omega Marks to get some of the gear.. and it's 1 Reticle each Elite STF..And I believe you ONLY get the Reticle if you successfully complete the optional.
And after all that Grinding...about 6 months later...maybe a Year.. you'll finally be ready to PVP optimally.... Maybe... :rolleyes:
I think we nee a new song for all of this..
"IT"S THE CIRCLE OF GRIND!"
this game has left no opening for people who know how to pick and choose whats relevant to max out. like, whats important and whats not that important. Simply raising every item to max level blankly and without thought isnt any fun. The differences between marks and mods on weapons arent that substantial. There is an entire aspect of gaming that would seperate the cream of the crop even further if it was relevant in this game. There is simply no opportunity cost for leveling, with infinite respecs, no real "choice" between whats the pivotal item to upgrade, and what you simply can "do better" in.
Compare it to a dnd mmwo or sp game, you NEED +5 weapons to break premonition, etc. This game has no similar dynamic. The slightly-betterness of most **** is simply not great enough to provide impetus for knowledgeable players to upgrade every single item. There is no critical point at which the differences become relevant. Acc2>acc3 weapons doesnt give you a lights out advantage nor does an extra 20% shield hp like moving from a battleship to a dreadnaught in eve ( a single skill to train that takes 1+yrs...).
this game sucks becus everyone just copies hilberts build thread and gets exactly the same stuff he tells you to
Season 7 won't be the death of PvP. Why? Because the death to PvP was a long time ago, probably somewhere around Season 3-5, when a large chunk of PvPers realised it wasn't getting any attention. What's left of us are the players who still have hope for Cryptic improving PvP - not much is happening though...
nono, stretch your memory further back! A week before season 2 launched, we had a big pvp tournament that we called "End of balance".
Ofc, it turned out to be a complete demonstration that balance never had existed, and it really became a contest in who could TRIBBLE out the most chroniton mines... I still remember searching like a madman through the cloud of mines, desperately trying to find a TSI to target...
nono, stretch your memory further back! A week before season 2 launched, we had a big pvp tournament that we called "End of balance".
Ofc, it turned out to be a complete demonstration that balance never had existed, and it really became a contest in who could TRIBBLE out the most chroniton mines... I still remember searching like a madman through the cloud of mines, desperately trying to find a TSI to target...
Can't say I'm surprised the imbalance extends that far, but I actually joined STO mid-September 2010 and only started PvPing post-Season 3; so I'm unsure of what mayhem PvP was going through then. :P
Can't say I'm surprised the imbalance extends that far, but I actually joined STO mid-September 2010 and only started PvPing post-Season 3; so I'm unsure of what mayhem PvP was going through then. :P
Well PvP has never been as unbalanced as it was in those first months, with complete shutdowns and cannons delivering uber-spike damage. I think people just got better at exploiting imbalances over time.
Still, you don't need a lot of flashy stuff to rule PvP these days. A vo'quv and some siphon drones is all you need! (and from what I hear, the coming changes doesn't help much...)
this game has left no opening for people who know how to pick and choose whats relevant to max out. like, whats important and whats not that important. Simply raising every item to max level blankly and without thought isnt any fun. The differences between marks and mods on weapons arent that substantial. There is an entire aspect of gaming that would seperate the cream of the crop even further if it was relevant in this game. There is simply no opportunity cost for leveling, with infinite respecs, no real "choice" between whats the pivotal item to upgrade, and what you simply can "do better" in.
Compare it to a dnd mmwo or sp game, you NEED +5 weapons to break premonition, etc. This game has no similar dynamic. The slightly-betterness of most **** is simply not great enough to provide impetus for knowledgeable players to upgrade every single item. There is no critical point at which the differences become relevant. Acc2>acc3 weapons doesnt give you a lights out advantage nor does an extra 20% shield hp like moving from a battleship to a dreadnaught in eve ( a single skill to train that takes 1+yrs...).
this game sucks becus everyone just copies hilberts build thread and gets exactly the same stuff he tells you to
unfollowable rant off
I don't think you understand what I am talking about. I'm not talking about the fact that it will take X days to "Grind" up the materials needed to make new cool stuff, I'm talking about the NON PLAYING Grind needed to get to those tiers. Where your putting TRIBBLE into a "Crafting" like Experience grind.. and then it takes Days to get any progress that has nothing to do with playing STO at all. Here's an Example of the Omega Reputation System.
You set up to 2 Missions like a Fleet mission. You gather most of the Gear weither it's Buying Consumables, using your Exp earned for Boff skills, or Dilithium. Then you do (Currently) 1 Elite STF, Get 60 Omega Points.. And you start that Daily timer. That whole process takes maybe..an hour of play time. And then your left with a Day and A Half with nothing to do.. Sure you can PVP. But in the Long term, Let's say 2 years from now, if you start a new player will be severly out matched in PVP and it will basiclaly be suggested "Go PVE for a while till X, Y, and Z are maxed. Then PVP" That is not fun to me. What is fun is actually getting to new heights VIA PVP. Not this new rep system. Or the Embassy System, or the Fleet System. But Cryptic has yet to do that. Continue to claim "PVP is coming in Season X" and then decides.. "NAh, this is going to be cooler, we'll give you this.. Look for PVP in the next season!"
Personally, I'm getting fed-up waiting for the PVP in this game to get any better. I mean I'm not going to "Quit" the game. Because I have a Life time Sub. But I am at least considering walking away from the game for a short stint soon, coming on to only do my Daily PVE..then going back to something else. Because that is what STO is starting to feel to me. Not a place to spend Hours if not Days at a time playing and PVPIng. But Stoping in for maybe.. an hour or two and then going some place else.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
this game sucks becus everyone just copies hilberts build thread and gets exactly the same stuff he tells you to
unfollowable rant off
Our master plan is coming into frutition. Soon we will have all mindless TSI-ship build borgs doing as we want!! Ops... did i say that loud? :rolleyes:
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
The upcoming Vesta, is effectively a Flight Deck Cruiser with a Karfi boff layout, Sensor Analysis, SUBSYSTEM TARGETING, the turn rate of a Neg'vhar, and can load dual cannons. We know this given the information coming out of Tribble.
1 fed ship. Carrying more stats than I cannot believe.
A PROTOTYPE SHIP more awesome than the FLAGSHIP Enterprise.
Its Star Trek the Anime, folks.
And for the first time in my entire Starfleet career, I am apologizing to KDF. I'm truly sorry for your loss. My condolences be to PVP.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
are people closed beta testing the vesta yet? i think all we know for certain from tribble is that carrier pets are used on it, which means its a damn carrier, and DC/DHCs work on it
which is bad enough as it is, but to make it a karfi clone? with what, 2 hangers? insane, just insane. i can only hope it only has 1, because its a sci ships thats sure to have subsystem targeting and sensor analysis.
so, a ship that can truly do all 3. spike damage you hard, chain tractor you with pets, hit you with commander level sci abilities, have target subsystem innately, and after getting completely manhandled by this ship for about a minute, it will have fully stacked sensor analysis on you.
and no one from here was selected to test it. pvp'ers, that could test just how fundamentally this would actually effect things, as apposed to pve'ers who would just say COOL! i don't need to see the final stats, theres enough information to know this thing is going to be broken overpowered, the latest ball shot to pvp.
Just want to second that no one with any knowledge of the game's mechanics has yet been known to test this ship. As far as we know, Cryptic extended the closed beta exclusively to people who don't have the first clue about the way it'd affect PvP. It's particularly a downer because not only are the few leaked details we know about bad signs in and of themselves, but we still have no idea how three toy consoles (innates?) will behave.
Bear in mind that this ship is the first ever where even Cryptic was worried it'd be too strong. A science cruiser with SA, pet deployables and easy-to-use dual heavies? I'm not saying the sky is falling but it doesn't look good at all.
Like I said, before the Atrox and Armitage... folks were talking about the Fed tactical carrier - the Vesta.
When I came back, I was really surprised to see the Armitage given all the discussion that had taken place about the Vesta. I thought for a moment they had just decided to go with the Armitage instead of the Vesta given they did the Caitian litterbox...
Fear the day you walk into a PvP match to see your team getting whaled on by Vestas and Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofits/Fleet Patrol Escorts/Fleet HECs. Those three escorts can already tank and kill. Now we'll have a monstrosity from the depths of Gre'thor that can tank, kill, and eat you away with those science abilities (if you're not dead by the time sensor analysis has done its work).
If the fleet escorts were a gunshot wound to the side of PvP, the Vesta as it stands is knife to spinal cord.
Cryptic, for the love of keeping some semblence of balance, let the hardcore PvPers you know exist on the forums test out the Vesta. Anyone can make a mess of enemies in PvE. The average Joe(s) testing this thing probably don't know that the 'It's amazing!' feedback their giving to the devs is sinking the knife deeper and twisting it.
With the addition of this ship, the segregation of those willing to spend money and those who don't will be complete.
PvP is dying a slow, painful death. And it will be dead soon if something isn't done.
are people closed beta testing the vesta yet? i think all we know for certain from tribble is that carrier pets are used on it, which means its a damn carrier, and DC/DHCs work on it
which is bad enough as it is, but to make it a karfi clone? with what, 2 hangers? insane, just insane. i can only hope it only has 1, because its a sci ships thats sure to have subsystem targeting and sensor analysis.
so, a ship that can truly do all 3. spike damage you hard, chain tractor you with pets, hit you with commander level sci abilities, have target subsystem innately, and after getting completely manhandled by this ship for about a minute, it will have fully stacked sensor analysis on you.
and no one from here was selected to test it. pvp'ers, that could test just how fundamentally this would actually effect things, as apposed to pve'ers who would just say COOL! i don't need to see the final stats, theres enough information to know this thing is going to be broken overpowered, the latest ball shot to pvp.
Its just got the Karfi boff layout, it only has 1 flight deck. (I hope.)
Just want to second that no one with any knowledge of the game's mechanics has yet been known to test this ship. As far as we know, Cryptic extended the closed beta exclusively to people who don't have the first clue about the way it'd affect PvP. It's particularly a downer because not only are the few leaked details we know about bad signs in and of themselves, but we still have no idea how three toy consoles (innates?) will behave.
Bear in mind that this ship is the first ever where even Cryptic was worried it'd be too strong. A science cruiser with SA, pet deployables and easy-to-use dual heavies? I'm not saying the sky is falling but it doesn't look good at all.
At the very least, this time they are rightfully worried.
Btw, DHCs on a 8-9 degree turn is "easy to use"...? Can I have your haxx skills? I can't keep my Negvhar pointed in the right direction long enough, even with power sliding and reverse drive! :P
The thing about escorts and cruisers with flight decks is that its a naturally self-balancing system. Choosing weapons means fighters are launched slower, and if the ship has too many sci slots those suffer too. Choosing aux gimps your firepower. Choosing both wrecks your suvivability.
Give it turn rate 6, 6 weapon slots, 9 consoles and 1 flight deck. Its the only thing that would make it balanced, really.
Like I said, before the Atrox and Armitage... folks were talking about the Fed tactical carrier - the Vesta.
When I came back, I was really surprised to see the Armitage given all the discussion that had taken place about the Vesta. I thought for a moment they had just decided to go with the Armitage instead of the Vesta given they did the Caitian litterbox...
HEC was a good idea. Ingenius in fact.
But after the Kitty Hawk and the HEC, I wish they knew when to stop! Making ships isn't like making out, you know!!
Fear the day you walk into a PvP match to see your team getting whaled on by Vestas and Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofits/Fleet Patrol Escorts/Fleet HECs. Those three escorts can already tank and kill. Now we'll have a monstrosity from the depths of Gre'thor that can tank, kill, and eat you away with those science abilities (if you're not dead by the time sensor analysis has done its work).
If the fleet escorts were a gunshot wound to the side of PvP, the Vesta as it stands is knife to spinal cord.
Cryptic, for the love of keeping some semblence of balance, let the hardcore PvPers you know exist on the forums test out the Vesta. Anyone can make a mess of enemies in PvE. The average Joe(s) testing this thing probably don't know that the 'It's amazing!' feedback their giving to the devs is sinking the knife deeper and twisting it.
With the addition of this ship, the segregation of those willing to spend money and those who don't will be complete.
PvP is dying a slow, painful death. And it will be dead soon if something isn't done.
And then...
Feds get Siphon Drones in the Romulan Lockbox.
Mines get improved to be more effective and torp skills affect them.
Spam Trek Online.
RIP, PVP. I hardly ever knew ya.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Btw, DHCs on a 8-9 degree turn is "easy to use"...? Can I have your haxx skills? I can't keep my Negvhar pointed in the right direction long enough, even with power sliding and reverse drive! :P
The thing about escorts and cruisers with flight decks is that its a naturally self-balancing system. Choosing weapons means fighters are launched slower, and if the ship has too many sci slots those suffer too. Choosing aux gimps your firepower. Choosing both wrecks your suvivability.
My apologies, I should give a little explanation + history of the Vesta here. Up until the release of the Kittybox, sci ships were relatively maneuverable, the only real exception being the Nebbie since it was more of a sci/cruiser hybrid.
Ships like the C-store Intrepid have a turn basically on par with KDF battlecruisers (in fact many are slightly superior; even the Fleet Vor'cha only sports 10, next to the Intrepid's 12 and the C-store Recon's 13). In theory, there's nothing stopping sci ships from mounting DHCs and going to town... except they're barred from doing so.
Now the introduction of Fedside "science carriers" threw a wrench into this, because ships like the Catbox turn like an absolute pig and if the Vesta is the same we can all stop freaking right now. The thing is, though, the "hangar" part is complete news to us, and what isn't news is that the Vesta's been billed as and promised to be a science ship that can mount cannons. This was implicitly under the old assumption that science ships are quite capable of turning well enough to use them.
Have you seen the Wells in PvP lately? Give that dual heavies, some pets and a few more toy consoles for good measure and you can start to see the problem.
ive been slumming in the negvar recently, it has no trouble using DHCs with 2 turn consoles. if the vesta has 9 or better, it wont have any trouble ether.
the neg can drop plasma and tractor, that makes up for turn. the vesta will be able to do similar, more even with runabouts equipped, VM, anomalies. every vesta will have 3 heaves, and thats enough to do serious damage.
Comments
I think the new grind isn't as bad as the starbase grind. However, one grind will inhibit the others' progress.
But I'm taking a step back and looking at us as a unique group of people says a lot of things. Despite all the crappy things that may have happened, its really all natural.
I've been reading a lot about how a lot of other MMOS, particularly WoW, pretty much do the samething every other season if not every season. It's really an endless cycle.
I'm not saying this is enjoyable and welcomed, it is kind of annoying at times. But I think we're a strong group of people in general to overcome such obstacles with constant discussion. Although sometimes the discussion can get testy at times, we somehow seem to be ok in someway or another.
Let's just say "Bring it on" let's see if we can survive another season at this point. lol.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That's something that's kind of struck me as odd - with a lot of the complaints some folks have been making about grinds... I've wondered if this was their first MMO.
Why? Because C&H is in just as bad a shape as arenas. And there are no premades in C&H. At least nothing that even remotely compares to arena premades. And in contrast to arenas, one or two really good players on one side are not enough to singlehandedly win a C&H.
So if premades really were the reason for the slow death of PVP, this would be restricted to arenas and we would have a blossoming C&H scene. Since we haven't, premades are not the core of the problem.
edit: Avg queue...
C&H FvF 4:01
Arena FvF 2:04
C&H FvK 4:00
Arena FvK 4:00
Help a fleet Grind up to the tier of Tactical, Engineering, and Science for the ships, and other items you want..
Help the Fleet Grind up the tiers of the Embassy System..
Grind your own Romulan Marks to level up your personal Reputation with Romulans..
Grind Omega Marks in order to level up your reputation with Omega fleet for Borg stuffs.
Grind Elite STFs to get Reticles in order to get Elite Omega Marks to get some of the gear.. and it's 1 Reticle each Elite STF..And I believe you ONLY get the Reticle if you successfully complete the optional.
And after all that Grinding...about 6 months later...maybe a Year.. you'll finally be ready to PVP optimally.... Maybe... :rolleyes:
I think we nee a new song for all of this..
"IT"S THE CIRCLE OF GRIND!"
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
They should call it PvEP
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
I've never even seen you in the queues Sophie, though I imagine with your popularity that kinda info must be kept quite quiet.
This ^
Treat it as a fresh skill-cap.
Season 7 is a bedrock for the Romulan faction I'd bet all my EC's on us getting next year. The outcry for a new faction is massive and the potential money is massive too. They're adding a new sector block, new rommie weapons, doffs, boffs, skills etc. It's obvious the Romulan faction is planned.
All that said, no - it's not going to kill PVP, it's not going to empty the queues, if that were a possibility I think the neglect PVP has suffered would have killed it long ago. With siphon drones, overpowered lockbox ships, Borg sets, BFI & SNB DOFFs as the largest layers of the ****cake that is PVP being our main helping, I can't see Season 7's layer to be any worse.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
and even beyond that. tardos who spend 99% of game time chasing mkxii sets for fractions of a percentage point increase are gonna let their "true skill" pvp abilities wane into oblivion. I see it now, people whod rather level their 29th toon thru mirror event than do pvp at all. those people are going to continue to suck, regardles of their mounting advantage statistically over players like me.
Theyll laugh hysterically when fighting my non lockbox limited p2w setup with no max level set items or uber gear.And theyll cry, when they still lose.
If you ask me, I have come from games where the potential grind to attain ALL POSSIBLE GEAR is 10 times the human lifespan of the player with greatest longevity. (eve has 100yrs worth of skills to train)-(grinding gear in a persistent world nwn server for top tier gear might get you one drop a week.)
Frankly the bar has been set way way too low, and the difference between the non special items and the sewt/p2w items is marginal at best. The flukey set and one time/5minute powers we have now and those coming simply arent as earthshattering as most players think. Put it into perspective vs all other games and game engines. Then Ill show you something ten times worse and truly unbeatable in comparison, that would take a person months to attain, on one single character.
This games grind is a pathetic joke, where people can still max level characters in 3 days. I maxed mine b4 official release from head starts 3 day bonus, among dozens/hundreds of other skill gamers who have subsequently quoit this lackluster game.
But some of us are fiends for trek arc based space combat, we will be here, maybe not as much or as happily, but well keep coming back.
i implore the reasonable among us, to not quit, because of this sentence :
"it will take me a while to max out gear on all my 37 characters" <<<this would take 1000 lifetimes in Eve. maxing out 1 asingle toon to lvl 40 in a decent nwn1 pw server could take weeks, max gearing him/her years. perspective people
this game has left no opening for people who know how to pick and choose whats relevant to max out. like, whats important and whats not that important. Simply raising every item to max level blankly and without thought isnt any fun. The differences between marks and mods on weapons arent that substantial. There is an entire aspect of gaming that would seperate the cream of the crop even further if it was relevant in this game. There is simply no opportunity cost for leveling, with infinite respecs, no real "choice" between whats the pivotal item to upgrade, and what you simply can "do better" in.
Compare it to a dnd mmwo or sp game, you NEED +5 weapons to break premonition, etc. This game has no similar dynamic. The slightly-betterness of most **** is simply not great enough to provide impetus for knowledgeable players to upgrade every single item. There is no critical point at which the differences become relevant. Acc2>acc3 weapons doesnt give you a lights out advantage nor does an extra 20% shield hp like moving from a battleship to a dreadnaught in eve ( a single skill to train that takes 1+yrs...).
this game sucks becus everyone just copies hilberts build thread and gets exactly the same stuff he tells you to
unfollowable rant off
Yet... the KDF are still unfinished.
nono, stretch your memory further back! A week before season 2 launched, we had a big pvp tournament that we called "End of balance".
Ofc, it turned out to be a complete demonstration that balance never had existed, and it really became a contest in who could TRIBBLE out the most chroniton mines... I still remember searching like a madman through the cloud of mines, desperately trying to find a TSI to target...
Can't say I'm surprised the imbalance extends that far, but I actually joined STO mid-September 2010 and only started PvPing post-Season 3; so I'm unsure of what mayhem PvP was going through then. :P
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
Well PvP has never been as unbalanced as it was in those first months, with complete shutdowns and cannons delivering uber-spike damage. I think people just got better at exploiting imbalances over time.
Still, you don't need a lot of flashy stuff to rule PvP these days. A vo'quv and some siphon drones is all you need!
I don't think you understand what I am talking about. I'm not talking about the fact that it will take X days to "Grind" up the materials needed to make new cool stuff, I'm talking about the NON PLAYING Grind needed to get to those tiers. Where your putting TRIBBLE into a "Crafting" like Experience grind.. and then it takes Days to get any progress that has nothing to do with playing STO at all. Here's an Example of the Omega Reputation System.
You set up to 2 Missions like a Fleet mission. You gather most of the Gear weither it's Buying Consumables, using your Exp earned for Boff skills, or Dilithium. Then you do (Currently) 1 Elite STF, Get 60 Omega Points.. And you start that Daily timer. That whole process takes maybe..an hour of play time. And then your left with a Day and A Half with nothing to do.. Sure you can PVP. But in the Long term, Let's say 2 years from now, if you start a new player will be severly out matched in PVP and it will basiclaly be suggested "Go PVE for a while till X, Y, and Z are maxed. Then PVP" That is not fun to me. What is fun is actually getting to new heights VIA PVP. Not this new rep system. Or the Embassy System, or the Fleet System. But Cryptic has yet to do that. Continue to claim "PVP is coming in Season X" and then decides.. "NAh, this is going to be cooler, we'll give you this.. Look for PVP in the next season!"
Personally, I'm getting fed-up waiting for the PVP in this game to get any better. I mean I'm not going to "Quit" the game. Because I have a Life time Sub. But I am at least considering walking away from the game for a short stint soon, coming on to only do my Daily PVE..then going back to something else. Because that is what STO is starting to feel to me. Not a place to spend Hours if not Days at a time playing and PVPIng. But Stoping in for maybe.. an hour or two and then going some place else.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Our master plan is coming into frutition. Soon we will have all mindless TSI-ship build borgs doing as we want!! Ops... did i say that loud? :rolleyes:
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
I asked for the Bonaventure back in Feb or Mar... I was laughed at.
ST:TAS would be fun. Ahem...
which is bad enough as it is, but to make it a karfi clone? with what, 2 hangers? insane, just insane. i can only hope it only has 1, because its a sci ships thats sure to have subsystem targeting and sensor analysis.
so, a ship that can truly do all 3. spike damage you hard, chain tractor you with pets, hit you with commander level sci abilities, have target subsystem innately, and after getting completely manhandled by this ship for about a minute, it will have fully stacked sensor analysis on you.
and no one from here was selected to test it. pvp'ers, that could test just how fundamentally this would actually effect things, as apposed to pve'ers who would just say COOL! i don't need to see the final stats, theres enough information to know this thing is going to be broken overpowered, the latest ball shot to pvp.
Bear in mind that this ship is the first ever where even Cryptic was worried it'd be too strong. A science cruiser with SA, pet deployables and easy-to-use dual heavies? I'm not saying the sky is falling but it doesn't look good at all.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
It has a PDF for the Vesta.
That blog post is from Oct of last year.
Like I said, before the Atrox and Armitage... folks were talking about the Fed tactical carrier - the Vesta.
When I came back, I was really surprised to see the Armitage given all the discussion that had taken place about the Vesta. I thought for a moment they had just decided to go with the Armitage instead of the Vesta given they did the Caitian litterbox...
If the fleet escorts were a gunshot wound to the side of PvP, the Vesta as it stands is knife to spinal cord.
Cryptic, for the love of keeping some semblence of balance, let the hardcore PvPers you know exist on the forums test out the Vesta. Anyone can make a mess of enemies in PvE. The average Joe(s) testing this thing probably don't know that the 'It's amazing!' feedback their giving to the devs is sinking the knife deeper and twisting it.
With the addition of this ship, the segregation of those willing to spend money and those who don't will be complete.
PvP is dying a slow, painful death. And it will be dead soon if something isn't done.
The rest is as you've noticed...
At the very least, this time they are rightfully worried.
Btw, DHCs on a 8-9 degree turn is "easy to use"...? Can I have your haxx skills? I can't keep my Negvhar pointed in the right direction long enough, even with power sliding and reverse drive! :P
The thing about escorts and cruisers with flight decks is that its a naturally self-balancing system. Choosing weapons means fighters are launched slower, and if the ship has too many sci slots those suffer too. Choosing aux gimps your firepower. Choosing both wrecks your suvivability.
Give it turn rate 6, 6 weapon slots, 9 consoles and 1 flight deck. Its the only thing that would make it balanced, really.
(It would also make it Dreadnought useless...)
HEC was a good idea. Ingenius in fact.
But after the Kitty Hawk and the HEC, I wish they knew when to stop! Making ships isn't like making out, you know!!
And then...
Feds get Siphon Drones in the Romulan Lockbox.
Mines get improved to be more effective and torp skills affect them.
Spam Trek Online.
RIP, PVP. I hardly ever knew ya.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
My apologies, I should give a little explanation + history of the Vesta here. Up until the release of the Kittybox, sci ships were relatively maneuverable, the only real exception being the Nebbie since it was more of a sci/cruiser hybrid.
Ships like the C-store Intrepid have a turn basically on par with KDF battlecruisers (in fact many are slightly superior; even the Fleet Vor'cha only sports 10, next to the Intrepid's 12 and the C-store Recon's 13). In theory, there's nothing stopping sci ships from mounting DHCs and going to town... except they're barred from doing so.
Now the introduction of Fedside "science carriers" threw a wrench into this, because ships like the Catbox turn like an absolute pig and if the Vesta is the same we can all stop freaking right now. The thing is, though, the "hangar" part is complete news to us, and what isn't news is that the Vesta's been billed as and promised to be a science ship that can mount cannons. This was implicitly under the old assumption that science ships are quite capable of turning well enough to use them.
Have you seen the Wells in PvP lately? Give that dual heavies, some pets and a few more toy consoles for good measure and you can start to see the problem.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
the neg can drop plasma and tractor, that makes up for turn. the vesta will be able to do similar, more even with runabouts equipped, VM, anomalies. every vesta will have 3 heaves, and thats enough to do serious damage.