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Season 7: Time to abandon Fleets?
weylandjuarez
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
With the reduction of STF Dilithium rewards and the increases made to Fleet events, Season 7 looks like a clear attempt on Cryptic's part to lock us more tightly into the Fleet system.
We already have Fleet exclusive gear and ships with more Fleet exclusives on their way via embassies.
I've only fairly recently joined two Fleets (one I helped found) and already I'm burnt out on the insane resource requirements. Our fleets have multiple projects running that are starved of Dilithium - they just sit there doing nothing because people are being bled dry.
And now with STF rewards reduced (my main end-game entertainment), the increased costs for Doffs, the reputation system and whatever Cryptic thinks up next, I'm really losing the will to sink resources into even my own Fleet.
We're in danger of more and more 'content' being locked away behind these pay walls with greater (understandable) apathy from Fleet members to contribute.
I don't know what the solution to all this is other than to continue to express our discontent (those of us that are unhappy with the changes) but it seems all this is going to go live anyway (and the intent is clear - buy Dilithium with real money if you want to progress).
The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to abandon the Fleet system altogether - yes, I'm losing access to content but at least what I earn from my STFs I can spend in the C-Store or trade for ECs to buy stuff from the exchange.
I'm still open to spending cash if there's something I want - something tangible that I get for the exchange - finishing off yet another 'project' in the Fleet Advancement System just doesn't qualify I'm afraid.
I've got some great ships, got lots of Mk XII Omega/MACO/KHG but got very little content to enjoy them with - grinding these ridiculous resource sinks is no fun at all and the time and sheer volume of resources required is completely demoralizing.
What are everyone elses thoughts?
We already have Fleet exclusive gear and ships with more Fleet exclusives on their way via embassies.
I've only fairly recently joined two Fleets (one I helped found) and already I'm burnt out on the insane resource requirements. Our fleets have multiple projects running that are starved of Dilithium - they just sit there doing nothing because people are being bled dry.
And now with STF rewards reduced (my main end-game entertainment), the increased costs for Doffs, the reputation system and whatever Cryptic thinks up next, I'm really losing the will to sink resources into even my own Fleet.
We're in danger of more and more 'content' being locked away behind these pay walls with greater (understandable) apathy from Fleet members to contribute.
I don't know what the solution to all this is other than to continue to express our discontent (those of us that are unhappy with the changes) but it seems all this is going to go live anyway (and the intent is clear - buy Dilithium with real money if you want to progress).
The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to abandon the Fleet system altogether - yes, I'm losing access to content but at least what I earn from my STFs I can spend in the C-Store or trade for ECs to buy stuff from the exchange.
I'm still open to spending cash if there's something I want - something tangible that I get for the exchange - finishing off yet another 'project' in the Fleet Advancement System just doesn't qualify I'm afraid.
I've got some great ships, got lots of Mk XII Omega/MACO/KHG but got very little content to enjoy them with - grinding these ridiculous resource sinks is no fun at all and the time and sheer volume of resources required is completely demoralizing.
What are everyone elses thoughts?
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
Post edited by weylandjuarez on
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I did this with accept from my fleet, and I sense that they have stopped spending most of their dil on Zen, and have started saving up.
Leaving a fleet at this point, would make little-to-no sense, as like you say, everything is being tied tighter into fleets.
What you (IMO) should do, is stop spending dilithium on stuff, unless you're absolutely certain that you are going to use it for a long time.
I don't understand ... if a player joins a Fleet, then there is a social contract in place that suggests they should make contributions to the group beyond their presence ... or they are taking up (wasting?) space.
So, why should Fleet members be apathetic to contribute ... that's what they signed up for ...
Well, that's kind of the problem - I'm tired (as are my Fleet mates) of investing vast amounts of Dilithium purely to progress the starbase - there's no reward there apart from unlocking further Dilithium stores (since you have to pay for everything except Retrofits) and potentially Fleet-gated content.
I'd rather spend my Dilithium on tangibles than a seemingly never-ending grind of Fleet projects. The only real attraction to me and many Fleeties is the ships and the gear - and new gear and new ships will continue to appear in lockboxes (and hence, on the Exchange) so really, what's the point?
The way you can contribute is very skewed - take Expertise for example - each of us has got millions upon millions of Expertise points if we've been at VA/LG for a while - so when a new project goes up that gets filled instantly.
Next to fill up is commodities (Torpedo Launchers/Data Samples etc.) 'cause most of us have a surplus of EC or things like Data Samples.
Fleeties jump in quick to fill these because it's not 'costing' them anything and a lot of us have these resources sitting around.
But the remaining categories (Dilithium, Fleet Marks, Doffs) can take ages to fill because supplies of these items are extremely limited - Fleet Marks require considerable time to amass in any quantity (assuming you haven't maxxed your Doff ranks), Dilithium requires grinding and refinement and Doffs - well, they cost a truckload of EC.
The system allows those that are quick enough to fill the cheap seats the feeling that they're contributing whilst lumbering those that aren't with the true cost of each project.
And so you end up with 5 projects sitting there, hardly progressing because of the costs involved (and if you have a short-sighted Fleet leader you might have well over 500000 of Dilithium needing to be invested at any one time to move the base on - usually caused by over-resourcing).
With a scenario like that, even if you had an active fleet of 25 members they'd need to each contribute half of their Dilithium refining allowance a day to clear those projects in 5 days (and 25 is supposedly the 'optimal' number).
The systems breed apathy because Fleeties feel obliged and because the empty slots are always high-value commodities. Some of this can be mitigated by careful selection of projects but not by any means all of it.
The embassy might get more attention but the starbase itself will rot into dust, because we're an active but small fleet (15 active players or so) and we can't afford the insane costs and the new reputation systems at the same time. That's the plan currently. Projects will be started but everyone agrees on the fact that they won't be filled anymore.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
On a similar note, I never ever craft... ever. 11 Uncommons and 99 common unreplicables for 1 item Mk XI? Ha!
This game has THE most aggressive f2p model I've ever seen in an mmo. It's down right appalling.
Anyway, the 20 dollar ships you can get after contributing an insane amount of doffs, particles, and other items on top of the insane amount of Dil. It's.... the biggest joke I've ever seen in an mmo ever. 20 bucks for a 10% increase?
The fleet modules should be either removed or reduced to only needing 1. It's a virtual ship with 10% better stats in a few areas. Not 3 entire full length games you could buy with the same amount of money. If it's suppose to be a joke, I'm not laughing.
This way, our Starbase still expands while our dilithium farming can be focused. The fact that older Fleet Actions will get dilithium rewards helps us.
(UFP) Ragnar
Unless you have no life, in which case you can do both....
The end all of it is, that people consider them races and must dump vast amounts of resources into the projects... you really don't have to... its a choice really. We choose to continue to slot projects, and if people donate... great... if they don't ... just as great.
The fleet system, and the fleet embassy really don't net you much. Other than some visuals...
You make it what you choose to make it... if you invest huge amounts of time grinding dilithium to fund projects that really aren't worth anything... thats your choice. You have made it a dilithium sink, and grind fest.
I am under no illusions here, T4, in my estimation with casual donations take 6-8 months... and I am OK with that.
If you are comfortable just chugging along, and when projects finish the finish... it is not that bad of a thing to have. Becomes a source of pride for the members. We gather there when we finish a special project to laugh about the 200k dilithium spent on a fish tank. But the point is, we know its a choice... and that we don't have to buy it...
I dont, and wont, hound people to donate... if they want to... then they will.
One thing I can say, is that the Fleet System has brought Fleet closer... we run more missions together. Build camaraderie, and have fun.... isn't that what the game is all about... to have fun after all?
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
On the flip side, I do like having them around. It's really forced me to go out and grind dilithium on projects, and ramp up my DOFF farming, so it gives me something to work at. Although I wish the requirements would scale a bit based on how many people are in your fleet. I know it's going to take us a good long while before we see a T5 starbase. Our Klingon fleet has yet to even reach T1.
It's all end game content I can understand but some of the requirements are pretty heavy, and make it almost impossible for smaller fleets to compete on the same level as the much larger ones.
The Increased Dilithium costs with DOFFs and the nerfing of Dilithium Income (with STFs) has put a strain so much that I cannot afford to continue.
Right.
Yea, targ hearts will be a minor annoyance as you can't buy them with dil nor Zen... But that's nothing serious, right?
And as for S7, I forsee no issues getting the dilithium raised. Sure, they'll sit there for a week or 2 more if no one's contributing heavily but that's fine. Its not like we're going to get locked out of a part of the game if we don't hit a new tier in a specific time frame.
And has been said elsewhere, its super easy to raise the 8k dilithium refined limit in casual, 1-5 hours of play. I personally play ~4 hours a day and I can get well over a weeks worth in that time. I came back a month ago (playing nearly every day) and in that time I've managed to end up with a backlog of unrefined dilithium that will take me several months to refine completely, using all the tools at my disposal.
S7 will only hurt those who do very few, very specific things to get dilith. IE, nothing but STF's or Nothing but Doffs, or nothing but Dailies, etc etc and even then.
Funny.
Can't imagine what a rollercoaster the Fleet system has been for you Levi - I've read some of your recent posts on it and I'm largely in agreement with you. Still amazed you did what you did and sad in a way that there's no real incentive for you to go on.
Finishing tier 3 was a huge monkey off my back.
I posted so many threads about the coming problems with the starbases and the increasing grind across the whole game - starting with "Starbases - the beginning of the end?" - just to be laughed at and told I was crazy "cryptic said they will make things easier and better"
Well now you guys get what you wanted - hope you are happy.
Really I am just tired of the ranting - even from myself.
It's making me swing more PRO-Cryptic - and although I don't agree with all the changes for season 7 - there are several excellent improvements. On top of that I was greatly impressed with Mr Stahls performance last night - he stayed in the middle of that firestorm for 3 hours LONGER than I would have just said FU all.
In the end we will just have to see - if you don't like the new changes - don't bother with them.
Today I will refine 100k dilth - on the day season 7 goes live I will also refine 100k dilth - that is how I see the changes effecting me - zip.
I think that everyone willing to change zen for dil will be very welcome in my fleet!
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Don't fear fellow fleet builders - Diogene0 and I are currently grinding and stockpiling 10,000's of greens and blues to let you continue your starbase progression - sure you will have to pay throught the nose(I may be nice and sell at a discount - but I doubt diogene0 will - he's like a Ferengi and not a Cardi) But they will still be avail.
Um... What name would such fleet have?
The dirty dozen?
Ocean's eleven?
Nah, that'd be too optimistic, I'll bet on Locks, Stocks and TWO Smoking Barrels!
P.S. Barrel is intended - hint: your nick.