Are Quad Cannons Worth the Expense? No.

adjournon

Okay, so I've been level 50 for a while and not too long ago I saved up and bought the Sao Paulo class for the Quad Phaser Cannons [Dmgx4]; and now I recently got the Advanced Fleet Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc, Dmgx3] and I'm looking at the DPS and there is only a 1.9 difference?!?

The whole endeavor seems like a rip off now. Why would anyone bother to buy an entire ship for 1500 ZEN when 10000 Dilithium (roughly 63 Zen at 160 per) will get you a weapon with just 1.9 Damage Per Second less (out of hundreds or .3% less) with higher accuracy and a higher critical damage bonus that doesn't drain your engine power?

Quad Cannons need a major DPS increase (or SOMETHING) to be worth the expense. Am I wrong?

jkstocbr

Because the Sao Paulo looks awesome compared to the Defiant skin. I ran the quads for a while before I got my fleet DHC. The quads also look and sounds amazing. That is all.

ashtaku

Adjournon, I understand what you are saying but I think you are overlooking a few important points.

First, as you noted you are comparing an entire ship with an individual piece of equipment. When you pay Z1500 for the Sao Paolo you are buying...

-A ship with premium performance for your Tactical captain and presumedly any future tactical captains you roll
-Additional costume parts for the Tactical Escort, the Tactical Escort Retrofit, and the Fleet TER
-Quad phaser cannons for any of your captains who want them (with a unique shooting animation)

By contrast, the 10,000 dilithium and fleet equipment provision you are spending for the AFDHC are being spent for a single weapons module.

If you don't want the costume parts, don't want the performance boost for your 30-40 level tactical toons, and don't want the account-wide access for the weapon, then the AFDHC is definitely the better choice.

There's another important point: by paying a premium, anyone can have the QPC immediately for any character that is high enough level to spawn the Sao Paolo (i.e. over 30th level and on the Fed faction). The AFDHC, by contrast, is limited to Vice Admirals and critically requires you to be:

A) a member of a fleet, and
have access to gear provisions and a tier 2 fabber that you presumably participated in earning.

In other words, the discounted cost of the AFDHC is also related to the fact that the devs are incentivizing certain behaviors (fleet membership).

Finally, there's the matter of infinity gear. The AFDHC is Mk XII gear and there is not reasonable expectation that it will ever improve in stats unless there is a radical change in the way the weapons are balanced across the board. By contrast, the QPC is infinity gear, which means that if/when (probably when based on dev comments) Admiral rank and Tier 6 comes out, the QPC is likely to advance to Mk XIV just as it (belatedly) advanced to Mk XII in Season 6.

Summary

You are correct that, compared side-to-side with the QPC and assuming the QPC is the sole purpose of buying the Sao Paolo, the AFDHC is a better value.

However, the Z1500 price of the QPC includes a number of other items. Some players will want these things and this will change their value judgment about the QPC; in fact, market research related to FTP in Korea revealed that cosmetic items were the main driver of FTP microtransactions.

TL;DR

You're comparing apples and oranges

wolfpack12c

1 more big up for the QC is that is proc rate is the Hughes in the game which most people overlook

adamkafei

I don't believe they do need a boost, they scale as you level and I believe as they drain engine power they therefore get a power based damage boost for higher engine power, that and th extra 2 hits per volley gives any tac buffs even more power

lianthelia

ashtaku wrote: »

Adjournon, I understand what you are saying but I think you are overlooking a few important points.

First, as you noted you are comparing an entire ship with an individual piece of equipment. When you pay Z1500 for the Sao Paolo you are buying...

-A ship with premium performance for your Tactical captain and presumedly any future tactical captains you roll
-Additional costume parts for the Tactical Escort, the Tactical Escort Retrofit, and the Fleet TER
-Quad phaser cannons for any of your captains who want them (with a unique shooting animation)

By contrast, the 10,000 dilithium and fleet equipment provision you are spending for the AFDHC are being spent for a single weapons module.

If you don't want the costume parts, don't want the performance boost for your 30-40 level tactical toons, and don't want the account-wide access for the weapon, then the AFDHC is definitely the better choice.

There's another important point: by paying a premium, anyone can have the QPC immediately for any character that is high enough level to spawn the Sao Paolo (i.e. over 30th level and on the Fed faction). The AFDHC, by contrast, is limited to Vice Admirals and critically requires you to be:

A) a member of a fleet, and
have access to gear provisions and a tier 2 fabber that you presumably participated in earning.

In other words, the discounted cost of the AFDHC is also related to the fact that the devs are incentivizing certain behaviors (fleet membership).

Finally, there's the matter of infinity gear. The AFDHC is Mk XII gear and there is not reasonable expectation that it will ever improve in stats unless there is a radical change in the way the weapons are balanced across the board. By contrast, the QPC is infinity gear, which means that if/when (probably when based on dev comments) Admiral rank and Tier 6 comes out, the QPC is likely to advance to Mk XIV just as it (belatedly) advanced to Mk XII in Season 6.

Summary

You are correct that, compared side-to-side with the QPC and assuming the QPC is the sole purpose of buying the Sao Paolo, the AFDHC is a better value.

However, the Z1500 price of the QPC includes a number of other items. Some players will want these things and this will change their value judgment about the QPC; in fact, market research related to FTP in Korea revealed that cosmetic items were the main driver of FTP microtransactions.

TL;DR

You're comparing apples and oranges

Here here! They are so much more than the Op makes them sound. They aren't meant to be the be all end all cannons but they still aren't bad to start out with...plus the sound fx is so awesome!

theultimatefunky

ok here is where im going to disagree with most of you, the QC are awsome but NOT for pvp, i use 1 QC, 2 DHC and 1 torp fore, and my DPS rocks especially if you are using cannon rapid fire, but i would deffo NOT use them for pvp

xxxhellspawnyxxx

wolfpack12c wrote: »

1 more big up for the QC is that is proc rate is the Hughes in the game which most people overlook

Procs are calculated by firing cylces and not per single volleys. So QC and "normal" DCs or DHC all have the same chance to proc.

anazonda

You should have read the forums first, and THEN considered buying after...

This is really old news, and all the arguments have already been presented, at least 50 times before.

tvlar

Gotta love the visuals !

hanover

The only "boost" the quad cannons need is the ability to equip more than one of them. Even if that ability were confined to fleet escorts, it would increase it's value massively.

weylandjuarez

xxxhellspawnyxxx wrote: »

Procs are calculated by firing cylces and not per single volleys. So QC and "normal" DCs or DHC all have the same chance to proc.

Not all procs - DEM, and more significantly Tetryon Glider are added per pulse (though they're not exactly procs to be fair).

foundrelic

better if you could at least equip two.

intrepid74656

adjournon wrote: »

Quad Cannons need a major DPS increase (or SOMETHING) to be worth the expense. Am I wrong?

Imho, no. The increase in damage is laughable. A bit more would be welcome.

ashtaku wrote: »

There's another important point: by paying a premium, anyone can have the QPC immediately for any character that is high enough level to spawn the Sao Paolo (i.e. over 30th level and on the Fed faction). The AFDHC, by contrast, is limited to Vice Admirals and critically requires you to be:

A) a member of a fleet, and
have access to gear provisions and a tier 2 fabber that you presumably participated in earning.

In other words, the discounted cost of the AFDHC is also related to the fact that the devs are incentivizing certain behaviors (fleet membership).

A) Not that hard
Again, not that hard

ashtaku wrote: »

Finally, there's the matter of infinity gear. The AFDHC is Mk XII gear and there is not reasonable expectation that it will ever improve in stats unless there is a radical change in the way the weapons are balanced across the board. By contrast, the QPC is infinity gear, which means that if/when (probably when based on dev comments) Admiral rank and Tier 6 comes out, the QPC is likely to advance to Mk XIV just as it (belatedly) advanced to Mk XII in Season 6.

I certainly hope so!

ashtaku wrote: »

Summary

You are correct that, compared side-to-side with the QPC and assuming the QPC is the sole purpose of buying the Sao Paolo, the AFDHC is a better value.

However, the Z1500 price of the QPC includes a number of other items. Some players will want these things and this will change their value judgment about the QPC; in fact, market research related to FTP in Korea revealed that cosmetic items were the main driver of FTP microtransactions.

TL;DR

You're comparing apples and oranges

I think you are wrong here. They are both cannons and the AFDHC is fairly easy to get compared with the grinding you need to do to get Z1500 for the PQC. I assume grinding and not buying z-points because you also grind for the AFDHC.

adamkafei wrote: »

I don't believe they do need a boost, they scale as you level and I believe as they drain engine power they therefore get a power based damage boost for higher engine power, that and th extra 2 hits per volley gives any tac buffs even more power

Not according to this: http://www.stowiki.org/Phaser_Quad_Cannons

Also it states (and I can't verify this) that the PQC is somewhat like a MK X weapon. Not a MK XI or even MK XII. So scaling is limited.

ashtaku

Not according to this: http://www.stowiki.org/Phaser_Quad_Cannons

Also it states (and I can't verify this) that the PQC is somewhat like a MK X weapon. Not a MK XI or even MK XII. So scaling is limited.

The commentary on the website about the scalability of the Quad Cannon hasn't been updated since the Season 6 patch that brought the end-stage damage scale in line with other Vice Admiral level weapons.

Incidentally, I agree with you that the fleet-related entry barriers for the AFDHC are not all that difficult to overcome. My point wasn't that the devs thought it would be hard to get, but rather that they made it fairly easy and affordable to get, if you engage in the behavior they want you to (participating in fleet content).

purvee1

Question about Quad cannons.

On the Wiki it says any ship can equip them if they could normally equip Cannons. So Could I, for example, Get Quad disruptors and stick them on my Varnaus?

I only ask as a mate tried it out on one of his ships with the Quad Phasers and says the game said No.
Rather check before buying and all that.

Thanks.

altechachan

purvee1 wrote: »

Question about Quad cannons.

On the Wiki it says any ship can equip them if they could normally equip Cannons. So Could I, for example, Get Quad disruptors and stick them on my Varnaus?

I only ask as a mate tried it out on one of his ships with the Quad Phasers and says the game said No.
Rather check before buying and all that.

Thanks.

I believe for the KDF you need to get their Disruptor equivalent: http://www.stowiki.org/Disruptor_Quad_Cannons

lianthelia

purvee1 wrote: »

Question about Quad cannons.

On the Wiki it says any ship can equip them if they could normally equip Cannons. So Could I, for example, Get Quad disruptors and stick them on my Varnaus?

I only ask as a mate tried it out on one of his ships with the Quad Phasers and says the game said No.
Rather check before buying and all that.

Thanks.

Stuff like the wiki is a little bit screwy, when it says a ship can equip cannons it means dual/dual heavy cannons. All ships can equip single cannons.

I don't think the Varanus can equip duals so no I would say the answer is no.

skyranger1414

The quads should never have been a weapon at all! It should've unlocked a costume option, like visuals on ship shields so that your dual and dual heavies used the Quad's FX.

trhrangerxml

skyranger1414 wrote: »

The quads should never have been a weapon at all! It should've unlocked a costume option, like visuals on ship shields so that your dual and dual heavies used the Quad's FX.

If that were true then they would of fixed the torpedo animation for the Defiant in game already. Don't forget that the Defiant had two forward facing torpedo tubes on either side of the saucer (or in this game, where you change the pylons). The Defiant did launch probes and stuff from under the deflector, but never a torpedo.

tobar26th

fulleatherjacket wrote: »

You are wrong. They are a vanity item at best, so that escort captains can feel like Ben Sisko, blowing those Dominion TRIBBLE straight to hell.

Agreed, and to me that makes them worth the cost in itself

I saw the Sao Paulo as a costume pack :P

annemarie30

not everyone has access to the fleet items.
i was in a fleet for about 20 minutes. all i got was "get on vent" I wear a headset all damn day at work. I will NOT wear one at home

annemarie30

maybe the quad cannons should be a console that make ALL dual cannons fitted "quad"

l0cutus359

I bought the Defiant Refit when able when I was ranking up (Captain rank, if I remember right).... and the QC were handy to have when working my way up to VA since I didn't have to buy the next level cannon as I progressed.

and yes, I am big fan of DS9 so I did want them for visual, etc. (and yes, I have the cloak console too).

If you are already a VA and really after DPS only, I would go hunting on the exchange for whatever DHC that suits your taste or review the Fleet weapons if you have access.

Thx!

hanover

annemarie30 wrote: »

maybe the quad cannons should be a console that make ALL dual cannons fitted "quad"

I definitely like this idea.


Also, a lady who plays STO and flies an escort? Marry me!

shredder75

I've been picking up a lot of the c-store ships as bouns skins, and for the consoles.

That said, my baby science officer has had a goldmine of ships to play with as a result and I haven't had a spend a single one of her requisition points for one, aside from the Nova at the beginning (which is vastly better than the Connie btw.)

C-store ships with weapons, have inferior weapons to purple mk12s, wide angle torpedo included. What they are are very powerful items pre VA, or pre Mk12. The consoles are the far better deal because most of them scale well and can be boosted even further with skills and other consoles.

The beauty of the c-store ships though is accessibility. Once you buy one, you can add and delete it at will... on ALL your characters (on the same faction.) I cannot stress how awesome that is.

Do that with a lockbox or fleet ship and see how that works out.

Lastly, when you have multiple chars, despite the c-store cost of a ship, you're spending less on fleet modules to get a particular ship on ALL your chars. 4 fleet modules covers 4 chars and is a huge savings compared to 4 per char.

purvee1

lianthelia wrote: »

Stuff like the wiki is a little bit screwy, when it says a ship can equip cannons it means dual/dual heavy cannons. .

Thanks, that makes sense now.

adjournon

Still, for a weapon that was touted as "the most powerful cannons in the game" the QC clearly are NOT. Seems like false advertizing.

hanover

Discovered not long ago that the Peregrine fighter can run the quad cannons and comes with its own built-in copy of Cannon Rapid Fire 1, so I've started running a build with the quad cannons, 180 degree quantum torpedos from the Regent, and the Red Matter Capacitor to mitigate the power drain from the cannons somewhat. Still deciding if I like it.

bitemepwe

QCs need to be a reward unlock that puts the QC into that accounts that purchase the vessel.
So the player gets the Phaser/Disruptor version on purchase and now has the chance of recieving a QC reward drop as well.

Such reward drops would have to cover all energy types, mark level and proc types.