Quick question... Whats is a paradox? Answe that console.
If you use that console and bring your past self to the present and your past self gets destroyed.. then you were not ever in the present to bring your past self to the present because you were dead already.
The devs should never have tied the past ship to the present for damage, instead it should bring an older version of yourself from the past of another universe. Everyone can get a ground device that does the same thing but has nothing to do with time, so why not in the future a ship console is created that does it. Older ship deals less damage and future ship deals more balancing out to the triple damage.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
The devs should never have tied the past ship to the present for damage, instead it should bring an older version of yourself from the past of another universe.
Or, in order to keep the time travel theme, an alternate timeline. They don't even need to be your past and future alternates.
Make it work exactly like the Shard of Possibilities and it'll be fine. And remove the threat burst, so they have time to do some actual damage.
The main fact is that cryptic wont do **** until this thread reaches 100 pages in 3 days and even then its put at position 3686432 right below "fix the galaxy".. The fact that you paid loads of money to get the ship doesnt interesst them. It only meens that the number of ppl who also have the ship is so small that cryptic cares even less...
I don't understand, your given a new product its up to you to buy it, your fully aware of what your buying yet when you receive it its either BUFF IT or NERF IT because I AM NOT HAPPY WAAAAAA !
ITS A FAAAKKKEEEE !!!! er I mean ITS A GAAAAMMEEE !!!! why don't they make it so the future and past self attack their ungrateful owner instead ?
I think what most people are missing is that the Manheim console is like a ship version of the Shard of Possibilities. The description says "Creates quantum duplicates" not "Pulls your ship from the past and future", and with the shard you don't take any damage when your quantum clones die in ground combat. The duplicates' stats aren't affected by anything you have equipped be it consoles or weapons, and they most certainly don't share your boff abilities or any benefit from your active doffs.
Similarly the MVAM pets and Saucer/Chevron don't benefit from your consoles, weapons, boff powers, or active doffs. Yes they lower the max hull value of the controlled ship by an insignificant amount (5%? 10%? That's a joke. -13% hull and -4.8% shields? Also a joke) and play with the power levels, but when you recombine with the destroyed pets you don't suddenly take 50% or 75% damage like would make sense from half or 2/3 of your ship being blown up while they were separated. Not going to get into the sudden crew death syndrome as that happens whether the pets are alive or not when you recombine.
The Manheim device ability is pitiful by comparison, temporary images that disappear on their own after a short time yet have an unrealistic malus attached.
Have they reworked this console or even slightly improved it since the last post (2013)
With the Delta Recruit Event its begging me to create a Temporal themed character:
-Wells Temporal Science Vessel
-Wells uniform
-Relativity Self-Targeting Rifle
-Relativity Stasis Pistol
-The above 3 for my away team
-Temporal Set
-Temporal Warfare Set
-Temporal Ambassador title
-Temporal Insight (Ship Trait)
-Temporal Storage Beacon Devices
-Shard of Possibilities (whenever the featured rerun comes out again)
-Negotiator Ship Device
-Paradox Corrector Ground Device
-Tesseract Communications Receiver
The first Belfast was commanded by Captain Ve'Kal Shon until its destruction in 2409. A new ship was commissioned bearing the same name and registry as special dispensation to then newly promoted Captain Edward XIII for his pivotal role during the renewed Dominion War.
Have they reworked this console or even slightly improved it since the last post (2013)
With the Delta Recruit Event its begging me to create a Temporal themed character:
-Wells Temporal Science Vessel
-Wells uniform
-Relativity Self-Targeting Rifle
-Relativity Stasis Pistol
-The above 3 for my away team
-Temporal Set
-Temporal Warfare Set
-Temporal Ambassador title
-Temporal Insight (Ship Trait)
-Temporal Storage Beacon Devices
-Shard of Possibilities (whenever the featured rerun comes out again)
-Negotiator Ship Device
-Paradox Corrector Ground Device
-Tesseract Communications Receiver
No, it's still a suicide console.
Also, if the JHSS is any indication, expect at least a T6 Wells/Mobius coming.
I dont own the ship or console. Just had to watch the TNG clip to remind myself about it.
Heres my idea of how it should work, as a suggested fix:
The player controlled ship becomes the future self, and battle results are projected into the "future" the player is inhabiting in real time.
So it would work as a 50% ship hit point damage dealer, and would play out like this:
Player gets in range and targets 1 ship. Immediately after targeting you select the Manheim console. Nothing immediately happens. You get the enemy ship hull to 75%. Just then, nearby a copy of your ship and the enemy ship have a fight next to you. Your ship copy would have default weapons but it wont matter. The little scene plays out with the two ships fighting each other. It wouldnt look like an exaxt replay of the fight so far, but thats ok, because its likely too hard for Cryptic to do. 30 seconds after the first copies appear and fight each other, a second set of copies appear and fight each other. During during the 30 seconds it takes for the second copies to show, you're still fighting the enemy in your section of time. Once 2 sets of copies show up, now there are 3 sets of you and your enemy, where you the player are controlling "future" you. The two sets of copies are considered echos of you. When the second set of copies shows up, that set is considered the "past" you. When he looks forward, he sees the "present" you (the first copy set to show), and he sees the "future" you, which the player is living in and still controlling. Another 30 seconds go by, and in this time, the "future" you hails the past you, and provides key intel about the enemy ship they are all simutaneously fighting in those 30 seconds. This information passes forward, and as the second 30 second timer expires, the effect collapses, and now 50% hull damage is dealt to your enemy because of the info future you gave to past you that caught up to and helped future you. This intel exchange happens "offscreen". No additional damage is dealt to the players ship. You sustain whatever damage the enemy dealt to you in the time it took to get the enemy to 75% hull, and waiting out the first 30 sec timer, and waiting out the second 30 second timer.
In summary, get enemy to 75% hull, present you shows up. 30 seconds later past you shows up. After the info exchange you instantly deal 50% hull damage to the enemy 1 minute after you got their hull to 75%. If future you was able to deal 25% more damage to their hull in the 1 minute it took for the effect to play out, when that 50% kicks in, thats a finishing blow as the effect collapses. If you died in that 1 minute, effect is canceled. Also, any enemy targeted will not be able to break your target lock on them during that 1 minute scene play. It can be imagined that some of the info you provided was telling past you a way to prevent them from removing target locking you during the whole battle.
Now maybe this 50% damage dealing cant scale per ship and has to be a set amount of hitpoints regardless of the ship targeted, and if so, it should be able to deal 50% hull damage to a pesky carrier ship, so you can deal with and eliminate 1 of them 50% faster than if you had never used the Manheim.
This should be easy to program, because now all Cryptic has to do is make 2 sets of decoys fight each other in a cute little battle on their own, the results of which dont effect the player's fight as he fights the enemy in the "future" ( from the past and present copies' point of view) and program the copies to show up and disappear on a timed schedule and deal damage to the "real" enemy after the scene plays out. Basically what happens when multiple fleet support ships show up to fight other enemy ships around you, as you stay locked onto whatever ship you were engaging.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
That seems overly complicated. It would undoubtedly be easier to just mimic what the shard of possibilities already does on ground: two duplicates from where/whenever with less powerful weapons. Anything would be an improvement on click then die, which is what we have now.
The only times I've ever managed to survive using the blasted thing were when I didn't need to use it in the first place.
That seems overly complicated. It would undoubtedly be easier to just mimic what the shard of possibilities already does on ground: two duplicates from where/whenever with less powerful weapons...
Agreed 100%. I wonder how hard it is for them to change it to this
The first Belfast was commanded by Captain Ve'Kal Shon until its destruction in 2409. A new ship was commissioned bearing the same name and registry as special dispensation to then newly promoted Captain Edward XIII for his pivotal role during the renewed Dominion War.
I dont own the ship or console. Just had to watch the TNG clip to remind myself about it.
Heres my idea of how it should work, as a suggested fix:
The player controlled ship becomes the future self, and battle results are projected into the "future" the player is inhabiting in real time.
So it would work as a 50% ship hit point damage dealer, and would play out like this:
Player gets in range and targets 1 ship. Immediately after targeting you select the Manheim console. Nothing immediately happens. You get the enemy ship hull to 75%. Just then, nearby a copy of your ship and the enemy ship have a fight next to you. Your ship copy would have default weapons but it wont matter. The little scene plays out with the two ships fighting each other. It wouldnt look like an exaxt replay of the fight so far, but thats ok, because its likely too hard for Cryptic to do. 30 seconds after the first copies appear and fight each other, a second set of copies appear and fight each other. During during the 30 seconds it takes for the second copies to show, you're still fighting the enemy in your section of time. Once 2 sets of copies show up, now there are 3 sets of you and your enemy, where you the player are controlling "future" you. The two sets of copies are considered echos of you. When the second set of copies shows up, that set is considered the "past" you. When he looks forward, he sees the "present" you (the first copy set to show), and he sees the "future" you, which the player is living in and still controlling. Another 30 seconds go by, and in this time, the "future" you hails the past you, and provides key intel about the enemy ship they are all simutaneously fighting in those 30 seconds. This information passes forward, and as the second 30 second timer expires, the effect collapses, and now 50% hull damage is dealt to your enemy because of the info future you gave to past you that caught up to and helped future you. This intel exchange happens "offscreen". No additional damage is dealt to the players ship. You sustain whatever damage the enemy dealt to you in the time it took to get the enemy to 75% hull, and waiting out the first 30 sec timer, and waiting out the second 30 second timer.
In summary, get enemy to 75% hull, present you shows up. 30 seconds later past you shows up. After the info exchange you instantly deal 50% hull damage to the enemy 1 minute after you got their hull to 75%. If future you was able to deal 25% more damage to their hull in the 1 minute it took for the effect to play out, when that 50% kicks in, thats a finishing blow as the effect collapses. If you died in that 1 minute, effect is canceled. Also, any enemy targeted will not be able to break your target lock on them during that 1 minute scene play. It can be imagined that some of the info you provided was telling past you a way to prevent them from removing target locking you during the whole battle.
Now maybe this 50% damage dealing cant scale per ship and has to be a set amount of hitpoints regardless of the ship targeted, and if so, it should be able to deal 50% hull damage to a pesky carrier ship, so you can deal with and eliminate 1 of them 50% faster than if you had never used the Manheim.
This should be easy to program, because now all Cryptic has to do is make 2 sets of decoys fight each other in a cute little battle on their own, the results of which dont effect the player's fight as he fights the enemy in the "future" ( from the past and present copies' point of view) and program the copies to show up and disappear on a timed schedule and deal damage to the "real" enemy after the scene plays out. Basically what happens when multiple fleet support ships show up to fight other enemy ships around you, as you stay locked onto whatever ship you were engaging.
Maybe two alternate future selves that take damage while you do, with a personal aggro increase. I could deal with that.
It's how much dumb damage you get subjected to FROM them that's annoying.
Or maybe if you could activate a second time and cancel the effect, taking the position of your past self. Kinda like the Subspace Vortex.
I still can imagine a full Temporal Set including Temporal Shields (Year of Hell), Chrono-Deflector (Endgame), T-Core (Year of Hell/Relativity), Time Displacement Drive (Enterprise). The T-Shields seem like they should logically isolate the damage sharing since they protect against timeline alteration.
Sometimes I wonder how hard it would be to add an auto-lock function to the forum that locks all threads that have not been posted within the prescribed time limit. :P
At the risk of incurring more of Vreenak's ire, I just want to extend a big thank-you to the team for finally fixing this console; it will be great being able to use it at last. It may not have been fixed for the right reasons, but I'm not about to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Manheim Device: Disabled healing interactions with past and future self in order to prevent excessive latency when interacting with certain Starship Traits.
This functionality may be restored at some point in the future, but was removed to improve server performance.
NO! Do not restore it! This is what this console needed in order to finally become usefull.
I take it back. It's even worse than before! Now instead of getting some small warning that my past self is about to expire and take me with it I get popped just like that!
Comments
If you use that console and bring your past self to the present and your past self gets destroyed.. then you were not ever in the present to bring your past self to the present because you were dead already.
The devs should never have tied the past ship to the present for damage, instead it should bring an older version of yourself from the past of another universe. Everyone can get a ground device that does the same thing but has nothing to do with time, so why not in the future a ship console is created that does it. Older ship deals less damage and future ship deals more balancing out to the triple damage.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Make it work exactly like the Shard of Possibilities and it'll be fine. And remove the threat burst, so they have time to do some actual damage.
ITS A FAAAKKKEEEE !!!! er I mean ITS A GAAAAMMEEE !!!! why don't they make it so the future and past self attack their ungrateful owner instead ?
Similarly the MVAM pets and Saucer/Chevron don't benefit from your consoles, weapons, boff powers, or active doffs. Yes they lower the max hull value of the controlled ship by an insignificant amount (5%? 10%? That's a joke. -13% hull and -4.8% shields? Also a joke) and play with the power levels, but when you recombine with the destroyed pets you don't suddenly take 50% or 75% damage like would make sense from half or 2/3 of your ship being blown up while they were separated. Not going to get into the sudden crew death syndrome as that happens whether the pets are alive or not when you recombine.
The Manheim device ability is pitiful by comparison, temporary images that disappear on their own after a short time yet have an unrealistic malus attached.
With the Delta Recruit Event its begging me to create a Temporal themed character:
-Wells Temporal Science Vessel
-Wells uniform
-Relativity Self-Targeting Rifle
-Relativity Stasis Pistol
-The above 3 for my away team
-Temporal Set
-Temporal Warfare Set
-Temporal Ambassador title
-Temporal Insight (Ship Trait)
-Temporal Storage Beacon Devices
-Shard of Possibilities (whenever the featured rerun comes out again)
-Negotiator Ship Device
-Paradox Corrector Ground Device
-Tesseract Communications Receiver
The first Belfast was commanded by Captain Ve'Kal Shon until its destruction in 2409. A new ship was commissioned bearing the same name and registry as special dispensation to then newly promoted Captain Edward XIII for his pivotal role during the renewed Dominion War.
Someone please burn it with fire send it back to the depths of the forum from which it was raised :eek:
SOMEONE CALL AN EXCORCIST:D
No, it's still a suicide console.
Also, if the JHSS is any indication, expect at least a T6 Wells/Mobius coming.
Heres my idea of how it should work, as a suggested fix:
The player controlled ship becomes the future self, and battle results are projected into the "future" the player is inhabiting in real time.
So it would work as a 50% ship hit point damage dealer, and would play out like this:
Player gets in range and targets 1 ship. Immediately after targeting you select the Manheim console. Nothing immediately happens. You get the enemy ship hull to 75%. Just then, nearby a copy of your ship and the enemy ship have a fight next to you. Your ship copy would have default weapons but it wont matter. The little scene plays out with the two ships fighting each other. It wouldnt look like an exaxt replay of the fight so far, but thats ok, because its likely too hard for Cryptic to do. 30 seconds after the first copies appear and fight each other, a second set of copies appear and fight each other. During during the 30 seconds it takes for the second copies to show, you're still fighting the enemy in your section of time. Once 2 sets of copies show up, now there are 3 sets of you and your enemy, where you the player are controlling "future" you. The two sets of copies are considered echos of you. When the second set of copies shows up, that set is considered the "past" you. When he looks forward, he sees the "present" you (the first copy set to show), and he sees the "future" you, which the player is living in and still controlling. Another 30 seconds go by, and in this time, the "future" you hails the past you, and provides key intel about the enemy ship they are all simutaneously fighting in those 30 seconds. This information passes forward, and as the second 30 second timer expires, the effect collapses, and now 50% hull damage is dealt to your enemy because of the info future you gave to past you that caught up to and helped future you. This intel exchange happens "offscreen". No additional damage is dealt to the players ship. You sustain whatever damage the enemy dealt to you in the time it took to get the enemy to 75% hull, and waiting out the first 30 sec timer, and waiting out the second 30 second timer.
In summary, get enemy to 75% hull, present you shows up. 30 seconds later past you shows up. After the info exchange you instantly deal 50% hull damage to the enemy 1 minute after you got their hull to 75%. If future you was able to deal 25% more damage to their hull in the 1 minute it took for the effect to play out, when that 50% kicks in, thats a finishing blow as the effect collapses. If you died in that 1 minute, effect is canceled. Also, any enemy targeted will not be able to break your target lock on them during that 1 minute scene play. It can be imagined that some of the info you provided was telling past you a way to prevent them from removing target locking you during the whole battle.
Now maybe this 50% damage dealing cant scale per ship and has to be a set amount of hitpoints regardless of the ship targeted, and if so, it should be able to deal 50% hull damage to a pesky carrier ship, so you can deal with and eliminate 1 of them 50% faster than if you had never used the Manheim.
This should be easy to program, because now all Cryptic has to do is make 2 sets of decoys fight each other in a cute little battle on their own, the results of which dont effect the player's fight as he fights the enemy in the "future" ( from the past and present copies' point of view) and program the copies to show up and disappear on a timed schedule and deal damage to the "real" enemy after the scene plays out. Basically what happens when multiple fleet support ships show up to fight other enemy ships around you, as you stay locked onto whatever ship you were engaging.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
That seems overly complicated. It would undoubtedly be easier to just mimic what the shard of possibilities already does on ground: two duplicates from where/whenever with less powerful weapons. Anything would be an improvement on click then die, which is what we have now.
The only times I've ever managed to survive using the blasted thing were when I didn't need to use it in the first place.
Agreed 100%. I wonder how hard it is for them to change it to this
The first Belfast was commanded by Captain Ve'Kal Shon until its destruction in 2409. A new ship was commissioned bearing the same name and registry as special dispensation to then newly promoted Captain Edward XIII for his pivotal role during the renewed Dominion War.
Maybe two alternate future selves that take damage while you do, with a personal aggro increase. I could deal with that.
It's how much dumb damage you get subjected to FROM them that's annoying.
Or maybe if you could activate a second time and cancel the effect, taking the position of your past self. Kinda like the Subspace Vortex.
I still can imagine a full Temporal Set including Temporal Shields (Year of Hell), Chrono-Deflector (Endgame), T-Core (Year of Hell/Relativity), Time Displacement Drive (Enterprise). The T-Shields seem like they should logically isolate the damage sharing since they protect against timeline alteration.
NO! Do not restore it! This is what this console needed in order to finally become usefull.