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Suggestion: Experienced Players can only queue Elite STFs
admiralkevin
Member Posts: 15 Arc User
The title says it all. Below is a suggestion and rant on how a limit or boundary should be place in order for newbies to attempt normal STFs and not Elite STFs as their first STF experience.
In order to better the quality of Elite STFs instead of wasting 1 hr on something that can be done in 5 minutes in STFs why not introduce a system (perhaps later on when the game engine can support this) that REQUIRES OR REQUESTS THE PLAYER RUN THROUGH at least 3 runs (or some other arbitrary number) on the normal version of the STF. The game would strongly recommend that the player run through the normal version in order for the player to learn how each STF operates.
For me almost every run includes a player that is new to STFs or just don't know how to play the game/STF. You can see this when you see a player run around with 10 critical injuries and a bunch more major injuries, others who run around firing a minigun or pistols, or some who just don't know how ground combat works (flanking, fall off damage of pulsewave guns, which kits to use, etc.)
I've seen so many players just jump into an elite STF at level 50 with no idea what they are doing, and not even playing 1 normal STF. If you force them or oblige them into normals at least they won't clog up as a complete newbie and force players who know what they are doing into a 1 hour STF leaver penalty or a 1+ hour STF for something that should take 20-30 minutes.
Some players can communicate and respond but from what I observe, a lot more players cannot understand you or know that you are communicating to them. Some don't speak english and speak german but even more don't even communicate/listen at all. If more players would communicate I wouldn't feel so inclined to suggest an idea for the recommendation to try normal before elite STFs.
I was also a noob once. And I had no idea what I was doing back then, but those were the days of 100 guys in Gamma Orionis yelling "LFG FED TACT FACT OR FICTION" etc. across a few instances. Those were also the days people took the time to read guides on STFs or where people forced team mates to skim them. Although STFs now are much easier/simplier, people don't read much of guides anymore and thus you see people running around with many crippling injuries holding a minigun and using the support technician kit...
/2cents
/endsuggestion/rant
In order to better the quality of Elite STFs instead of wasting 1 hr on something that can be done in 5 minutes in STFs why not introduce a system (perhaps later on when the game engine can support this) that REQUIRES OR REQUESTS THE PLAYER RUN THROUGH at least 3 runs (or some other arbitrary number) on the normal version of the STF. The game would strongly recommend that the player run through the normal version in order for the player to learn how each STF operates.
For me almost every run includes a player that is new to STFs or just don't know how to play the game/STF. You can see this when you see a player run around with 10 critical injuries and a bunch more major injuries, others who run around firing a minigun or pistols, or some who just don't know how ground combat works (flanking, fall off damage of pulsewave guns, which kits to use, etc.)
I've seen so many players just jump into an elite STF at level 50 with no idea what they are doing, and not even playing 1 normal STF. If you force them or oblige them into normals at least they won't clog up as a complete newbie and force players who know what they are doing into a 1 hour STF leaver penalty or a 1+ hour STF for something that should take 20-30 minutes.
Some players can communicate and respond but from what I observe, a lot more players cannot understand you or know that you are communicating to them. Some don't speak english and speak german but even more don't even communicate/listen at all. If more players would communicate I wouldn't feel so inclined to suggest an idea for the recommendation to try normal before elite STFs.
I was also a noob once. And I had no idea what I was doing back then, but those were the days of 100 guys in Gamma Orionis yelling "LFG FED TACT FACT OR FICTION" etc. across a few instances. Those were also the days people took the time to read guides on STFs or where people forced team mates to skim them. Although STFs now are much easier/simplier, people don't read much of guides anymore and thus you see people running around with many crippling injuries holding a minigun and using the support technician kit...
/2cents
/endsuggestion/rant
--Q, Horatio Nelson, Francis Drake Nine of Seventeen--
Crypitic Handle: @Admiral_Drake - PWE:admiralkevin
REAL 1000 day LTS vet since OB.
Crypitic Handle: @Admiral_Drake - PWE:admiralkevin
REAL 1000 day LTS vet since OB.
Post edited by admiralkevin on
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Simple reality is that asking people to do any number of Normals before they do an Elite will not keep n00bs out. They'll just stagger through the Normals for a bit and then join up for Elite when they have 3 or 5 or 20 successes in Normal.
At best, they'll know what the map looks like. They won't know the tactics needed for Elite because Normal PuGs don't bother with them, they won't know about injuries because they're not in Normal and they'll die a lot because of the tougher enemies.
A complete set of level 10 or 11 STF gear
Before they have access to elite.
Seems fair to me
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I will point out that all my characters are fairly decent in elite STFs, 2 have full ground sets and 1 is just starting out in normals, all use dual pistols, and are all quite good at killing borg drones so think about that before you say that dual pistols are rubbish weapons, if the player keeps ontop of their remod requirements dual pistols can shred borg drones with ease
just my experience (one which will likely be ignored/compared to BS)
It doesn't seem fair to me.
Sets =/= good players. Someone could grind out the potentially 60 Normal STFs required for their Mk X set and still be garbage. A bad player can be carried on a Normal STF easily. Equally, another person could have the tactics down (especially if they're playing in organised groups) inside 15 Normals. The requirement to keep at them until they get a complete set before being able to do Elites is beyond obnoxious, imo. Why should some players have to put up with that because other players want an ineffective solution to a problem they could avoid by not PuGing?
There's also the fact that the length of time taken to complete varies considerably according to tech drops. So you're not even making people jump through the same hoops. A Normal set is 3-60 STFs. Okay, doing it in less than 20 isn't going to happen that often, but it's still a big luck based variance in the amount of Normal STFs someone actually has to do before getting at Elites. The game's grindy enough as it is, without throwing this **** in.
You're probably shredding Borg drones because you're good at the game, not because you have Dual Pistols. And I'd bet you'd shred more with a non-burst weapon. The per-hit remod calculation means that the Borg adapt to burst and automatic weapons more quickly, even with the cooldown on the Borg recieving adaption 'counters' that was put in a few months back. I used the Jemmy set for a while and got one secondary fire activation from the rifle before having to remod. Yeah, I could keep on top of it, but it's ineffecient and annoying vs. a pulsewave or a split-beam. And it would've still been inefficient and annoying if I'd had an integral remod. The only plus point I can think of is that you can potentially get multiple exposes from some automatic weapons.
I think this maybe coming in 7 wait in see
I am so tiered of newbs in elite it is getting old
Simply disallow noobs that run:
- a rainbow build
- dont even fire a single weapon, or 1 every minute
- afk
- dont heal at all
- and dont let them queue up until they did a certain amount of normals, like 10 or 20.
accolades points? useless
# of normal runs? as someone else stated, useless also annoying if you're running an alt.
mkx or xi gear? also useless
@marctraiderz
seriously you want the server to run through and enumerate, validate every piece of gear on a player ship for every player that queues for an elite stf? seriously? STO's servers? that have issues already just running the game as it is? reality ever sneak up on you much? already covered the whole # of normal runs, stupid, useless, annoying.
simplest solution, solves every problem
don't pug:eek:
wow...complicated ain't it...:rolleyes:
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
if you will have full success runs always do it with your fleet or friends in the private option.;)
a player who have done 10 or 100 normal stfs is still no grant on a fair run i see every stf players what are over 1 year in the game and they playing like a neewbies what start 1 week ago this game.
that would be good if my fleet did that
While i would applaud restricting access to elite to experienced players, this would not change much. After doing elite for weeks, i had a lazy day and ran normal on the stf yesterday.
To say it was a difference like night/day is an understatement. Normal is easy at just about any skill level while a successful run for elite requires at least an adapt skill level and good gear. Having to deal with injuries is something players cannot experience on normal either.
Last, but not least.. certain triggers are different in Elite. E.g. you can get away with blowing up a cube in cure normal before all probes are done, but in Elite this is a death sentence.
For the moment i think the only thing to do is grind our teeth and hope the newbies learn quickly (contrary to noobs who do not learn even with a whole field screaming at them to stop what they're doing).
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
So, what about folks like me who don't give two flaming monkeys about ground STF's? You suppose we'd be locked out of Elite Space STF's 'cause we don't want to mess with ground STF's?
'Course, I can just grind up the EDC for one of those, too, so it's not like I have to set foot in an a Ground STF at all, though I'd really not want to have to waste it on stuff I probably won't ever need or use.
EDIT: It would still be ridiculously inconvenient for players with multiple characters.
I for one did a few normals before a fleet I was in put me in some Elite with them The space ones I was ok in the ground ones are where I failed big time.
It got to the point now where I am doing more Normals to know the basic strategys especially on Ground STF's
However since you can;t get damaged on Normal I agree you should be able to do a few on Normal maybe enough to get MKX set gear. Then you have the option for Hard
Which allows you to be damaged and have to try some tactics.
Make this to get the MK XI gear
And then should Elite only be unlocked it would prevent players like me from making a mission a lot worse when you play on a mission you don't have the knowledge or build to take on.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
P.S. Greater plan: Accolades turn into achievements = accountwide. Doesn't matter, "miniguners" think they are too pro to use any difficulty besides max. In elite would be greater rewards so they would skip easy, medium, hard,etc.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
I have a hard time believing there's anything newbies need to learn about them, except the fact they exist.
Other than that, yes, it would be nice if only people who know what they're doing (or what they should be doing) -competent, comes to mind- could have access to elites. However, how to gauge that level of competence I don't know. Given that the knowledge of shield distribution is far more useful than any STF store shield you can get, along with their set bonuses, letting players queue only with such equipment isn't a solution. Setting an amount of normals to run is also not a guarantee a player is competent when he finally unlocks elites.
Still, they should at least make it mandatory to run a normal version of whatever STF you then want to run on elite (if that's not the case already).
And lastly, if they ever introduce the necessity to run X (higher number) normals before hopping on elites, I hope the "unlock" of elites would be for all toons on an account. Therefore, players with numerous alts wouldn't have to waste time in normals without reason.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
If that was the case my main beef with the suggestion would disappear like so much dust in the wind.
Takes the same amount of time on ground, and you can do it while the respawn counter ticks down (which is what I do since I'm not doing anything else).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
This tells me you haven't fully considered things. The normal STF are nothing like the Elite STFs. You can steamroll those doing everything wrong and learning nothing with levelling greens and STILL complete the optional.
I don't know. It boggles my mind.
Missions which require players to fulfill objectives solo in a time limited setting.
These Gatekeeper missions needs all the basic mechanics present in STFs, alongside other NPCs to simulate the Team aspect.
Sheesh, STF elitism at it's best. It's a frigging game, get over it. If you are so terrified of people not being able to rush through a STF in 5 minutes like you and your fleetmates do don't play public STFs, period.
I'm glad there are still people willing to tell "noobs" how to improve instead of barking at them and demand a lock out system for every player not fulfilling ones personal quality standards of MMO-gaming.
The only way people can improve in STFs is EXPERIENCE. Not in normal STFs, not in "gatekeeper events" but in the actual elite-STF.
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A mandatory 2xEPtS, TT? The fact you have useful abilities doesn't mean you can use them, not to mention that the better a player is, the less he needs such universally good powers (if I may call them that). A good player can find workaround that work better for his specific (thus hardly "standard") build.
Similar to only allowing people with complete sets, or specific weapons. That just shouln't be the case.
The only (partial-)solution, that doesn't do more harm than good is letting a player run say 3 normal STFs of the type he then wants to run an elite, that valid for the whole account. That way people who end up in elites have at least seen the borg before.
Also, make it somehow clearly explained what injuries are, and that they're so very easy to heal/repair.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
If you'd read one single word further of my post you should safely be able to tell that it was - indeed - sarcasm
I'm tired by all those elitist snobs raging about how everyone but them ruins the game because it's possible that a random team will fail a mission. It's a game, plain and simple. It means nothing. Nothing you accomplish in this game means anything at all. So take it easy
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A note on the comment about all the melee: A medic melee tanking a heavy tactical drone will do one or both of two things, one it will make it easier to kill beacuse of forcing it to be open to flanking and two, it will mean that while it's not shooting you, you can work on the easier to kill drones thus possibly actually saving time if the team knows what to do. An example would be the big room before Ogen on infected. The melee player goes straight for the Heavy at the back while two groups of two rescue the officers. Not many teams I've been in do that, but it works and saves about a minute of 'room clearing'. The problem is that many people don't know how and when to melee and just charge in. That much I'll admit, having got carried away and done it myself a number of times.
A few things I'm REALLY tired of though: Noobs in Elite - but worse are Vets in Normal (accolade hunters who forget that they've been moaning about how noobs shouldnt do elite - where else they should be getting to know the maps is beyond me). People who don't listen. People who are using Zone, Local or any chat channel other than Team. AFKers. Leavers. Sulkers (who just sit the whole thing out because we failed the optional at the first room on infected). Moaners. 'Sigh...'ers. People who don't use, have or know what a remodulator is. 'Leaders' who actually don't know wtf they're talking about. The one who goes left when everyone else goes right. People who just shoot everything. People who try to solo the level. Etc. We've all been there. We all know what I'm talking about.
I try to do stuff with my fleet. If that's not an option, then with people I've met on STF's, and if they aren't around and I am THAT desperate to do a STF, I queue with randoms. If any of the above happens, I just take it. Why? Because I've been doing them long enough to have the sense, maturity and patience to know that it's my own fault for putting myself in a random group. If optionals, quick completions were really so important to me that I would turn blue and have a tantrum a 5 year old would be ashamed of if it didn't happen, I just wouldn't run with randoms.
One of the first comments put it as simply as you possibly can: If you don't like what comes with PUG's, don't do them. It's so simple that I can't believe more super veteran ACME wonderboy moaners don't do it already. It would make your game experience better and the rest of us wouldn't have to put up with you either. Everyone wins. No need to restrict anything. Restrict yourselves, the game already allows for that, and let the devs concentrate on bug fixing and other content.
Seriously doubt Cryptic will add anything more than the already in place level gate to Elite STFs. Why? Because Cryptic has already provided those of you who think you are too cool to have to be bothered with anyone not on your uber-l33t level a way to avoid the noobs -
private queues.
Cryptic isn't going to make it impossible (or more inconvenient with gatekeeper missions or other arbitrary things like a minimum normal run count of X) for noobs to earn the MK XII armor sets that are only available thru elite STFs. You have an already in-game method of avoiding random noobs. Use it.
My apologies. It's just that I've seen so many people who would actually mean a sentence like that...
(Still, I saw sarcasm as a possibility there. lol)
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!