If they aren't matter then they can't exist (everything is made of matter energy is a property of matter) this is a law a lot older than the concept of the photon
Photons... are not matter... they do not have matter.. they are matterless and massless. They are the mediation particle of electromagnetic propagation.
They MUST exist in this state or the universe as we know it would fall apart at the seems.
Live on Earth. Work in Space. Play with Dragons. Join the best add on to STO, the Neverwinter holodeck program! Only 14 GPL a month.
If they aren't matter then they can't exist (everything is made of matter energy is a property of matter) this is a law a lot older than the concept of the photon
Congratulations; you just made up your own brand of physics, that is not supported by any experiment or credible theory produced in the 20th or later centuries.
:rolleyes:
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I can say without fear of being proven wrong that if you had made your theorys known 500 years ago you would have been burned at the stake
I on the other hand would be considered a tiny bit old fashioned but notably NOT burned at the stake
and maybe in 500 years time people will sit in starships in the depths of space and laugh at the silly 21st century people who believed in Quantum mechanics
We are probably ALL wrong
but my theory is older and ill stick with it
I can say without fear of being proven wrong that if you had made your theorys known 500 years ago you would have been burned at the stake
I on the other hand would be considered a tiny bit old fashioned but notably NOT burned at the stake
and maybe in 500 years time people will sit in starships in the depths of space and laugh at the silly 21st century people who believed in Quantum mechanics
We are probably ALL wrong
but my theory is older and ill stick with it
so, have you run into the edge of the flat world then mr. 500 year old thinking?
Janeway must be dead (she would be VERY old)
and chakotay must still be in jail
But Vger is not so tough
send a ship back to before the launch of the original probe
and put in a deep core override
then when you see it in the present say "Command overide Life beats metal" and it explodes
She is, read Needs of the Many. She led an exploration mission to find out what was really going on with the Hobus Incident. Jake Sisko interviewed her.
I can say without fear of being proven wrong that if you had made your theorys known 500 years ago you would have been burned at the stake
I on the other hand would be considered a tiny bit old fashioned but notably NOT burned at the stake
and maybe in 500 years time people will sit in starships in the depths of space and laugh at the silly 21st century people who believed in Quantum mechanics
We are probably ALL wrong
but my theory is older and ill stick with it
??? You do realize that it is via known Quantum Mechanics phenomena that your computer is working right now...
Please do not try to use "modern" science claims against proven trek science
(an object moving faster than light IS a perfect weapon and a ship EMERGING from or Entering warp is a FTL projectile (see picard manuveer))
As to actually reaching light speed requiring infinate energy not even close
right now objects are being accelerated to this speed
An FTL wapon is perfect if one doesn't have FTL sensors which all starships in Star Trek happen to have. And if you really understood the Special Relativity equations, you would obvious see that your can't travel at the speed of light in normal space/time. It. is. impossible. If you converted everything in the universe, save one electron, and put all of that energy into that one electron, if would not reach the speed of light. It would reach a very large faction of the PSL.
Aren't the laws of physics thrown out the window inside a warp bubble?
Okay, things within a warp bubble routinely react relative to one another in a normal way. And things outside the bubble react normally.
But what a warp bubble does is effectively create an alternate set of physical laws. Relative to other contents of the bubble, things seem normal but relative to the external universe, they're not normal.
So, for example, a ship moving at warp would be seen by a third party observer to be BOTH moving faster than light AND not gaining mass and size as you would expect an object moving at that speed to do.
So I'm not sure that a ship hitting an object at warp would damage an object any worse than a ship hitting an object at full impulse would. In general, in Trek, there's a reluctance to test this out. And if it did hit with that kind of impact, it should vaporize a target. And if it didn't vaporize a target, the debris from that target would travel at warp speed too.
Beyond all of that, Trek physics is entirely based on what's dramatic and would be changed to make things more dramatic. Every shuttle being a super-weapon that can annihilate planets would kill dramatic scenarios. So if that is the consequence of Trek physics, I'd expect the writers to ignore that or write in a reason why that's not true. Because they wouldn't want it to happen and physics in Trek exists to prop up drama and make situations complicated, not solve problems or diminish the need for characters to show cleverness.
Evolution is a very young idea
and its not taught in all schools
even the ones who Do teach it do not claim it has all the answers.
Gravity is an observed fact but the causes of it are still theory
its like millers law of toast (Toast will land butter side down in direct proportion to the value of your carpet)
it sounds cool but its only an idea
as to no rest mass they must have otherwise they have no mass at all (mass is a property of matter )
ok it may be too small to detect but it must be there otherwise there would be no particle to carry the charge of light
(again only a theory)
if light is a wave instead then photons would not actually exist
My brain hurts.
Solivar your understand of science is very, very...flawed.
Evolution is probably the most proven theory in science today. Proven even better then special and general relativity. Evolution is what drives research today. New drugs and treatment are being developed because of it.
Photons always travel at the of light (of the medium). Always. That's why you see 'c' everywhere in equations. Because it's a constant. A photon not traveling at the speed of light is not a photon. So phtons must travel at the speed of light. So a photon must has a zero rest mass i.e. massless.
And light is both a wave and a particle. Wave/particle duality is a fact in quantum physics. It's been demonstrated time and time again. With photons, electron, protons, hell even with a complex molecules. Crazy, huh?
Congratulations; you just made up your own brand of physics, that is not supported by any experiment or credible theory produced in the 20th or later centuries.
:rolleyes:
What shall we call it? Sollvax physics? The place where photons have mass...
.
I would suggest Willowfine (Asprin) its reliable traditional and REAL
Solivar your understand of science is very, very...flawed.
Everyones is
thats why science is what it is
Nothing is proven and most of whats suspected is disputed by equally closed minded guys in equally white coats
Evolution is probably the most proven theory in science today
Except where it isn't
Evolution is a theory which explains biological change over time
But so does intelligent design (as long as you allow for an intelligence)
Also so does "Random chaos"
but that ones even less likely
Evolution relys on humans being the best survivor which frankly we aren't
in a purely evolutionary system we die out in the early stone age
.
Proven even better then special and general relativity
which of course isn't proven at all
The Cern stupidity and the recent claim of faster than light neutrios both damage this theory
As does Little Alberts theory itself (C should actually be V)
. Evolution is what drives research today. New drugs and treatment are being developed because of it.
no
thats "money" thats what drives research today
Photons always travel at the of light (of the medium). Always. That's why you see 'c' everywhere in equations. Because it's a constant. A photon not traveling at the speed of light is not a photon. So phtons must travel at the speed of light. So a photon must has a zero rest mass i.e. massless.
what do you want to call it before it accelerates ?
how about a percy??
and when it slows down due to the law of entropy ? perhaps a Fred
So a percy at rest begins to accelerate from the imput of energy slowly accelerating to the speed of light (V) it then maintains that speed until entropy reduces speed and it becomes a fred
Eventually it impacts a material it can't pierce and comes to rest becoming again a percy
thus P+E/T = V
V/T = E +F
And light is both a wave and a particle. Wave/particle duality is a fact in quantum physics. It's been demonstrated time and time again. With photons, electron, protons, hell even with a complex molecules. Crazy, huh?
[/QUOTE]
Which of course can be used to disprove quantum theory entirely to a certain mind set
in the binary universe things either Exist or don't
are either on or off
indecisive particles can't exist (unless you think that photons are intelligent)
who would like to see the return of Vger and/ or the Nexus? i would!!!!
Doesnt look like Vger, looks like a tholian ship, some of the tholians captured mirror universe ships hidden in asteroids.
But that does kinda look like the nexus
I thought this was a thread about V'Ger and the Nexxis, not an argument on different laws of physics and theoretical light speed and fictional weapons. Can we please get the posts back on topic? If you all wish to discuss what you obviously believe to be a fascinating topic of conversation, that has absolutely nothing to do with what the OP was talking about, could you take it to another thread please and let us who are interested in what the OP was talking about discuss that?
I thought this was a thread about V'Ger and the Nexxis, not an argument on different laws of physics and theoretical light speed and fictional weapons. Can we please get the posts back on topic? If you all wish to discuss what you obviously believe to be a fascinating topic of conversation, that has absolutely nothing to do with what the OP was talking about, could you take it to another thread please and let us who are interested in what the OP was talking about discuss that?
Good question, how did we end up on Sollvax physics?
...
Oh right, sollvax wanted to send a ship at light speed through V'ger and vaporize it because it will -according to sollvax- have infinite mass at light speed.
I guess I'll just go and make another thread where we'll carry our debate over. Now just which sub-forum to put it in...
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn?t providing any constructive discussion, so due to this as well as the off-topic nature of the discussion I'm closing this thread down.
For future reference please remember that it helps a great deal when posts which violate the PWE Community Rules and Policies are not responded to and are reported via submitting a Forums and Website Ticket (click here).
If you think any of your posts within a thread have violated the PWE Community Rules and Policies, please edit your posts before a moderator takes action.
If you feel you need to get in touch with PWE BranFlakes to discuss the actions taken by any Community Moderator, you can do so by submitting a Forums and Website ticket (click here).
Cheers,
syberghost
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Comments
and it can't be both a wave and a particle
its daft
it either has mass (is matter) or it doesn't (is a property of the matter it passes through)
Photons... are not matter... they do not have matter.. they are matterless and massless. They are the mediation particle of electromagnetic propagation.
They MUST exist in this state or the universe as we know it would fall apart at the seems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
Not only IS it both.. it HAS to be.
And Photons do not have matter!!!
Congratulations; you just made up your own brand of physics, that is not supported by any experiment or credible theory produced in the 20th or later centuries.
:rolleyes:
So, you believe in Thermodynamics, but not Relativity. You were proven wrong on this a century ago.
I on the other hand would be considered a tiny bit old fashioned but notably NOT burned at the stake
and maybe in 500 years time people will sit in starships in the depths of space and laugh at the silly 21st century people who believed in Quantum mechanics
We are probably ALL wrong
but my theory is older and ill stick with it
so, have you run into the edge of the flat world then mr. 500 year old thinking?
the earth is an ovate (its not a true sphere)
We proved it was round long long long long ago
But we currently have some people who believe in a flat universe
She is, read Needs of the Many. She led an exploration mission to find out what was really going on with the Hobus Incident. Jake Sisko interviewed her.
Seven works at the Daystrom Insitute.
??? You do realize that it is via known Quantum Mechanics phenomena that your computer is working right now...
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
and you seem to have me mixed up with christians
Fundementalists being very basic monos in most cases
the burning people part was most interesting...
take your trolling somewhere else dude, this is nerd central and we will out yammer you when it comes to science EVERY DAY!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
but keep trying.
its quite amusing, actually.
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
I am rolling on the floor laughing at this. Lunacy comes with it's own brand of science now!
An FTL wapon is perfect if one doesn't have FTL sensors which all starships in Star Trek happen to have. And if you really understood the Special Relativity equations, you would obvious see that your can't travel at the speed of light in normal space/time. It. is. impossible. If you converted everything in the universe, save one electron, and put all of that energy into that one electron, if would not reach the speed of light. It would reach a very large faction of the PSL.
Okay, things within a warp bubble routinely react relative to one another in a normal way. And things outside the bubble react normally.
But what a warp bubble does is effectively create an alternate set of physical laws. Relative to other contents of the bubble, things seem normal but relative to the external universe, they're not normal.
So, for example, a ship moving at warp would be seen by a third party observer to be BOTH moving faster than light AND not gaining mass and size as you would expect an object moving at that speed to do.
So I'm not sure that a ship hitting an object at warp would damage an object any worse than a ship hitting an object at full impulse would. In general, in Trek, there's a reluctance to test this out. And if it did hit with that kind of impact, it should vaporize a target. And if it didn't vaporize a target, the debris from that target would travel at warp speed too.
Beyond all of that, Trek physics is entirely based on what's dramatic and would be changed to make things more dramatic. Every shuttle being a super-weapon that can annihilate planets would kill dramatic scenarios. So if that is the consequence of Trek physics, I'd expect the writers to ignore that or write in a reason why that's not true. Because they wouldn't want it to happen and physics in Trek exists to prop up drama and make situations complicated, not solve problems or diminish the need for characters to show cleverness.
My character Tsin'xing
My brain hurts.
Solivar your understand of science is very, very...flawed.
Evolution is probably the most proven theory in science today. Proven even better then special and general relativity. Evolution is what drives research today. New drugs and treatment are being developed because of it.
Photons always travel at the of light (of the medium). Always. That's why you see 'c' everywhere in equations. Because it's a constant. A photon not traveling at the speed of light is not a photon. So phtons must travel at the speed of light. So a photon must has a zero rest mass i.e. massless.
And light is both a wave and a particle. Wave/particle duality is a fact in quantum physics. It's been demonstrated time and time again. With photons, electron, protons, hell even with a complex molecules. Crazy, huh?
What shall we call it? Sollvax physics? The place where photons have mass...
He's talking about how the transistors work in the integrated circuits inside of your computer.
I would suggest Willowfine (Asprin) its reliable traditional and REAL
Everyones is
thats why science is what it is
Nothing is proven and most of whats suspected is disputed by equally closed minded guys in equally white coats
Except where it isn't
Evolution is a theory which explains biological change over time
But so does intelligent design (as long as you allow for an intelligence)
Also so does "Random chaos"
but that ones even less likely
Evolution relys on humans being the best survivor which frankly we aren't
in a purely evolutionary system we die out in the early stone age
.
which of course isn't proven at all
The Cern stupidity and the recent claim of faster than light neutrios both damage this theory
As does Little Alberts theory itself (C should actually be V)
no
thats "money" thats what drives research today
what do you want to call it before it accelerates ?
how about a percy??
and when it slows down due to the law of entropy ? perhaps a Fred
So a percy at rest begins to accelerate from the imput of energy slowly accelerating to the speed of light (V) it then maintains that speed until entropy reduces speed and it becomes a fred
Eventually it impacts a material it can't pierce and comes to rest becoming again a percy
thus P+E/T = V
V/T = E +F
[/QUOTE]
Which of course can be used to disprove quantum theory entirely to a certain mind set
in the binary universe things either Exist or don't
are either on or off
indecisive particles can't exist (unless you think that photons are intelligent)
if you would get 1 cent for everything you are mistaken about...you would be a trillionare!
your comments...i have no words.:eek:
How is this even possible?
Are you serious?
Please tell us you are just trolling!
Doesnt look like Vger, looks like a tholian ship, some of the tholians captured mirror universe ships hidden in asteroids.
But that does kinda look like the nexus
Good question, how did we end up on Sollvax physics?
...
Oh right, sollvax wanted to send a ship at light speed through V'ger and vaporize it because it will -according to sollvax- have infinite mass at light speed.
I guess I'll just go and make another thread where we'll carry our debate over. Now just which sub-forum to put it in...
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn?t providing any constructive discussion, so due to this as well as the off-topic nature of the discussion I'm closing this thread down.
Cheers,
syberghost