Nothing in an MMO should take months to do, much less over a year or two.
There are people who play MMOs who would say it should take months to get a character to level-cap, rather then 1 double XP weekend.
As I've said many times, people need to stop seeing Fleetbases as the only thing to do and rather see them as they were intended to be: a long-term side project your Fleet does while they're doing other things. They were designed to take a minimum of 7 months for a reason, not because they couldn't have been designed to only take 2 months.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I completely disagree that there should be no long-term goals in an MMO. A long path does not need to be an extremely *difficult* one, however. They could scale back the requirements quite a bit -- it'll still take people at least 4.5 more months to complete, but at least they won't have to be grinding all day every day to do it.
For those in inactive fleets, they still would not finish it in that time just because there needs to be someone to start the projects, even if the requirement was 1 EC. But I do agree that they've made it far too difficult on smaller fleets given the rewards.
Very difficult for small fleets. It really does seem like they didn't put any thought into them. Which is why I made that proposition thread, giving possible ways to help small fleets like alliances or having their fleet located at an existing Hub and focus on unlocking the shipyard (thus reduce the grinding).
And this system really isn't fun in the long term sense, because everyone is focused on finishing this project than taking their time as the Devs intended. Would've been better if players constructed the base themselves using something like minecraft and shuttles and build block by block. Or the contruction of the base was on a preset timer and it built itself, and you merely added on to it with projects.
Nothing in an MMO should take months to do, much less over a year or two.
The result of making this task so monumentally large is that it burns out the players.
Not sure if you are new to MMO's. but until the last few years, everything took months to do, whether it was leveling your toon, or gearing up for endgame. It is only recent years that the casuals have degraded what the MMO genre used to be.
The problem with starbases is that everyone treats them like a race. Too much grinding in such little time will burn any player out.
Its fraking content! Its huge content!! Your getting fleet ships, weapons, new duty, fun tribbles, ever growing custom interiors. ALSO RELATED MISSIONS! Im sorry I dont usually flame, attack other views.. But this stuff just makes no... Its just crazy.
The ultimate no win sceneo is a job at Cryptic.
Content drought! WE WANT CONTENT!
Answer ok here is Fleet bases, New and fun missions for marks to build on your base.
"People say" When you all do make content its to short. I beat it in a day! Im hungry I want longer content that cant be beat in a day.
ANSWER Not to worry the bases can take months to build! Its a long process with rewars added as you complete sections.
"People then say.." What! Months! Its to time consuming its grinding! I hate this! I am only one person I dont want to join a fleet but I want a base fast!
Or or Its taking all of my reserves!
What are you doing with those reserves?? lol You cant take it with ya so use them;)
Look Im not a cool aid drinking Cryptic lover of all things they do. But man cut them some slack when slack is due.
Fleet Doff vendor supporters and exchange users, rejoice....
August 28th Tribble patch notes...
Duty Officers:
Dilithium rewards granted for dismissing any Duty Officer have been reduced.
New rewards are as follows:
White: 1
Green: 10
Blue: 25
Purple: 50
Amount of Recruitment CXP has not been altered.
All Duty Officers obtained from the Fleet Exchange can once more be contributed to Fleet Projects.
This change is retroactive, and will allow all existing versions of these items to be contributed, as well as any obtained in the future.
lol... So in otherwords... Discharge the TRIBBLE out of your DOFFs right now.
I just saw the news of fleet starbases as a way to consume peoples reserves of currency and decided to stay out of a fleet for a little while longer.
I still intend to stay out of it. :cool:
Ive played this game off and on from the start. And honestly, I welcome the sink. Ive gathered so much of this and that over the last two or so years. Im happy to finally put it into something. And actually get something worthwhile out of it....my Fleet Patrol Escort.
I gave up on the Fleet Shipyard grindmill, a week after S6 launched. Haven't logged back in since. Last time I checked, I was the only one contributing anything to our fleet's Klink shipyard, and the 4 or 5 of us contributing to the Fed yard were struggling to keep up with windows, and plants, on the "special" assignments.
My fleet is continuing to work on our starbase. It is a small fleet, just two people, so we never expected to build it quickly. We have reached Tier 1 with our Federation starbase and are almost that far with our Klingon one. (There are actually two fleets, but the same people, so I tend to think of them as one.)
Our fleet leader has checked what the requirements are upcoming projects, so we are saving certain DOFF's for them. We have not set any goals for when we will reach different tiers, but good planning in choosing projects has been very helpful.
All that I can add is that I am a '1-man fleet'. PUGs weren't too bad at first but they are getting exponentially worse by the day. Makes it hard to want to grind fleet marks as most players play like it a solo game just for them.
Where did they said that, give me some hints ... I'm just asking so I can read that again, in context.
This is the only thing I can find, but most of the Dev posts were made pre-forum change, and it's difficult to find direct statements as they have no Dev names:
To put that into context, the numbers are based around 150 to 225 played hours per week. 5 players would each need to play 30 to 45 hours per week to achieve those volumes.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Would be nice if after all the literal MONEY and time we've put into starbases, would be nice if they provisioned the best gear in the game at T5. Cryptic doesnt make money off the STFers. I see nothing wrong with the biggest money maker for them offering the best gear for us. Just sayin.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Would be nice if after all the literal MONEY and time we've put into starbases, would be nice if they provisioned the best gear in the game at T5. Cryptic doesnt make money off the STFers. I see nothing wrong with the biggest money maker for them offering the best gear for us. Just sayin.
The difference there is that anyone can do the STFs to get the gear. If you made it Fleetbase-specific Small Fleets might take years to get to T5 - and non-Fleet players could never get them.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Regarding the OP I am in a fleet of 10-12 active daily players. The numbers were a bit higher before T2 upgrade what is now in progress. (We had several no project days lately) During that time, we had 3 teams, one at every project category (science, engineering, tactical)
We did finish the tier II engineering, science and tactical upgrades, and our fleet level is now 7.
All in this period, we had 4-5 members in each team, and the amount of dailly dilithium input was roughly 4-5000 dilithium/member, without the upgrades and specials.
Our leaders did their best to keep us going. I did aquire a T2 science vessel, the fleet reconaissance one. Beside that, only another ship was aquired a T1 science one. 5-6 people aim for the fleet Defiant. Most members did aquire a secondary fleet ground weapon. We reached T2 mostly by doing provision and local systems projects.
All the problems mentioned in this thread are felt in our fleet too. The lure of cheap zen, the steep material requirements/real costs made the most resource conscious members to leave, or withdraw. Leadership has proposed an incentive, in form of free ship modules, as a reward for every member who stays and takes part in building up to T3.
We are still pursuing this goal, although reading this thread made it obvious for me, that we are not going to reach T4 in a useful time, if ever. We approximate that we will reach the T3 shipyard in 40 days. The approximate daily dilithium cost is estimated between 6-8000 dilithium/day/member and we aim for a single 500XP tactical project a day. Our fleet has good member cohesion and we do lots of things togheter. I am afraid, the burden of this endeavour will mark us, test us, and probably hurt us. We are only human, after all. Still, we are going on.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
Would be nice if after all the literal MONEY and time we've put into starbases, would be nice if they provisioned the best gear in the game at T5. Cryptic doesnt make money off the STFers. I see nothing wrong with the biggest money maker for them offering the best gear for us. Just sayin.
They do though. That's the beauty of the business model.
STFs sell ships. They sell lockboxes. They sell consumables. They sell costumes because the value of a costume is tied to people seeing you in it.
They do though. That's the beauty of the business model.
STFs sell ships. They sell lockboxes. They sell consumables. They sell costumes because the value of a costume is tied to people seeing you in it.
You're not helping my case. :P
Well then stop the lottery style drops in STFs. im NEVER going to grind for something and not have a firm figure in regards to how many times I have to grind X to receive Y. This is my first MMO, I will not budge on this. Fix PvP or fix STFs. Fix something. Im all for hard work, but I'll be damned if Im going to work for an employer that keeps pulling my paycheck further and further back from my grasp and not tell many how many hours I have to put in to get it.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Well then stop the lottery style drops in STFs. im NEVER going to grind for something and not have a firm figure in regards to how many times I have to grind X to receive Y. This is my first MMO, I will not budge on this. Fix PvP or fix STFs. Fix something. Im all for hard work, but I'll be damned if Im going to work for an employer that keeps pulling my paycheck further and further back from my grasp and not tell many how many hours I have to put in to get it.
they wont fix either, because they cant. as in, they are incapable of doing it. they have monkeys running the code dept. want proof? just try warping out in any of the romulan front missions. it acutally makes the ship do a 180, usually making it go straight through something. they actually fixed this awhile ago, but a recent patch screwed it up again.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
(Presonnally I am not interested in hearing from large rah rah fleet leaders - because it is a given that you want your members to keep building your Castle - I get that)
I take offense to your claim that large fleets want everyone else to build their quote, "Castle"
I lead a fleet of 185 Orion girls. I have 11 toons in the fleet. I hold the top 2 spots on the leaderboard, Lina 2,000,000 base credits and Ba Bomb with 1,200,000. I have 4 other toons with more than 200,000 each. I lead by example and if the girls get tired of giving dilithium I step in and take it. We are done with the tier 3 shipyard and ran into a monster project that ate up 648,000 dilithium and a whopping 10,800 marks. I went ahead and purchased 3000 zen for the job but to my surprise my girls ate that up like candy. Grinding the marks was a different problem seemed like none had the stomach for it so my 11 toons swung into action and 4 days later the project finally got off the drawing board and into the que. So your given rhetoric doesn't apply to me because I'm building the castle with my girls help.
Comments
As I've said many times, people need to stop seeing Fleetbases as the only thing to do and rather see them as they were intended to be: a long-term side project your Fleet does while they're doing other things. They were designed to take a minimum of 7 months for a reason, not because they couldn't have been designed to only take 2 months.
Very difficult for small fleets. It really does seem like they didn't put any thought into them. Which is why I made that proposition thread, giving possible ways to help small fleets like alliances or having their fleet located at an existing Hub and focus on unlocking the shipyard (thus reduce the grinding).
And this system really isn't fun in the long term sense, because everyone is focused on finishing this project than taking their time as the Devs intended. Would've been better if players constructed the base themselves using something like minecraft and shuttles and build block by block. Or the contruction of the base was on a preset timer and it built itself, and you merely added on to it with projects.
Not sure if you are new to MMO's. but until the last few years, everything took months to do, whether it was leveling your toon, or gearing up for endgame. It is only recent years that the casuals have degraded what the MMO genre used to be.
The problem with starbases is that everyone treats them like a race. Too much grinding in such little time will burn any player out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpfbJLLbczs
The ultimate no win sceneo is a job at Cryptic.
Content drought! WE WANT CONTENT!
Answer ok here is Fleet bases, New and fun missions for marks to build on your base.
"People say" When you all do make content its to short. I beat it in a day! Im hungry I want longer content that cant be beat in a day.
ANSWER Not to worry the bases can take months to build! Its a long process with rewars added as you complete sections.
"People then say.." What! Months! Its to time consuming its grinding! I hate this! I am only one person I dont want to join a fleet but I want a base fast!
Or or Its taking all of my reserves!
What are you doing with those reserves?? lol You cant take it with ya so use them;)
Look Im not a cool aid drinking Cryptic lover of all things they do. But man cut them some slack when slack is due.
LMAO... I've felt this for months and months... sometimes I feel for them.... other times, they do shoot themselves in the foot...
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
lol... So in otherwords... Discharge the TRIBBLE out of your DOFFs right now.
Ive played this game off and on from the start. And honestly, I welcome the sink. Ive gathered so much of this and that over the last two or so years. Im happy to finally put it into something. And actually get something worthwhile out of it....my Fleet Patrol Escort.
Our fleet leader has checked what the requirements are upcoming projects, so we are saving certain DOFF's for them. We have not set any goals for when we will reach different tiers, but good planning in choosing projects has been very helpful.
Fleets - Federation: No Fleet - KDF: Yan-Isleth
Tomorrow, if I hit "submit" fast enough on this.
Where did they said that, give me some hints ... I'm just asking so I can read that again, in context.
The numbers are based on 25 players playing casually, defined as logging in 2-3 times a week and playing an average of three hours each session. The data mining shows, as well, that the effects of more aggressive and expansive playing dramatically offsets numbers, meaning that 5 players who play very aggressively will actually outstrip a fleet of 25 players playing casually.
To put that into context, the numbers are based around 150 to 225 played hours per week. 5 players would each need to play 30 to 45 hours per week to achieve those volumes.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Regarding the OP I am in a fleet of 10-12 active daily players. The numbers were a bit higher before T2 upgrade what is now in progress. (We had several no project days lately) During that time, we had 3 teams, one at every project category (science, engineering, tactical)
We did finish the tier II engineering, science and tactical upgrades, and our fleet level is now 7.
All in this period, we had 4-5 members in each team, and the amount of dailly dilithium input was roughly 4-5000 dilithium/member, without the upgrades and specials.
Our leaders did their best to keep us going. I did aquire a T2 science vessel, the fleet reconaissance one. Beside that, only another ship was aquired a T1 science one. 5-6 people aim for the fleet Defiant. Most members did aquire a secondary fleet ground weapon. We reached T2 mostly by doing provision and local systems projects.
All the problems mentioned in this thread are felt in our fleet too. The lure of cheap zen, the steep material requirements/real costs made the most resource conscious members to leave, or withdraw. Leadership has proposed an incentive, in form of free ship modules, as a reward for every member who stays and takes part in building up to T3.
We are still pursuing this goal, although reading this thread made it obvious for me, that we are not going to reach T4 in a useful time, if ever. We approximate that we will reach the T3 shipyard in 40 days. The approximate daily dilithium cost is estimated between 6-8000 dilithium/day/member and we aim for a single 500XP tactical project a day. Our fleet has good member cohesion and we do lots of things togheter. I am afraid, the burden of this endeavour will mark us, test us, and probably hurt us. We are only human, after all. Still, we are going on.
They do though. That's the beauty of the business model.
STFs sell ships. They sell lockboxes. They sell consumables. They sell costumes because the value of a costume is tied to people seeing you in it.
You're not helping my case. :P
Well then stop the lottery style drops in STFs. im NEVER going to grind for something and not have a firm figure in regards to how many times I have to grind X to receive Y. This is my first MMO, I will not budge on this. Fix PvP or fix STFs. Fix something. Im all for hard work, but I'll be damned if Im going to work for an employer that keeps pulling my paycheck further and further back from my grasp and not tell many how many hours I have to put in to get it.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
they wont fix either, because they cant. as in, they are incapable of doing it. they have monkeys running the code dept. want proof? just try warping out in any of the romulan front missions. it acutally makes the ship do a 180, usually making it go straight through something. they actually fixed this awhile ago, but a recent patch screwed it up again.
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
I take offense to your claim that large fleets want everyone else to build their quote, "Castle"
I lead a fleet of 185 Orion girls. I have 11 toons in the fleet. I hold the top 2 spots on the leaderboard, Lina 2,000,000 base credits and Ba Bomb with 1,200,000. I have 4 other toons with more than 200,000 each. I lead by example and if the girls get tired of giving dilithium I step in and take it. We are done with the tier 3 shipyard and ran into a monster project that ate up 648,000 dilithium and a whopping 10,800 marks. I went ahead and purchased 3000 zen for the job but to my surprise my girls ate that up like candy. Grinding the marks was a different problem seemed like none had the stomach for it so my 11 toons swung into action and 4 days later the project finally got off the drawing board and into the que. So your given rhetoric doesn't apply to me because I'm building the castle with my girls help.