There are ways to minimize the doff impact simply by choosing the right projects to do. We surveyed our members and asked what things they were or were not interested in, and adjusted it based on that. For example, not many our members seemed interested in the military operational assets. So those projects took a low priority, and as a result, we NEVER had a need for sensor doffs. And when other doffs got scarce, we would choose projects that required either fewer doffs, or that required just the generic ones. Sure, it meant a little slower leveling as those projects typically only give 500 XP. But as a result, we have never been stalled on a project, and we are now very well provisioned.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Claims by forum surfers like us are are basically worthless. For every "I Quit" post made there's a post from someone asking for help on how to download the game or start it the first time.
I won't "name and shame", but I recall more than one case where famous "I quit" folks were found (sometimes by me) through the Captain's Database to have continued playing for quite some time. I miss that database.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Well the Fleet doofies need to be identifiable from the Real doffs (it took me three DAYS to delete every white doff i had and start from scratch on the infected characters)
I won't "name and shame", but I recall more than one case where famous "I quit" folks were found (sometimes by me) through the Captain's Database to have continued playing for quite some time. I miss that database.
Ha. There is no time limit on "I quit!" Maybe they quit for an afternoon. They got their nap in, had a cookie, and felt better about life in general.
Since Day 1 of Starbases, my fleets were committed in stopping at Tier 1 since the rewards seemed lackluster and the costs being rather expensive higher up (especially Mark grinding). But my fleets of three is now halfway through Tier 2 with both Federation and KDF Fleets (doing them similtaneously). So we are committed in completing Tier 2.
Now with Tier 3, we thought at least reaching the Starbase, but given the costs of the upgrade someone posted resently, it discouraged us greatly. And if we do reach that far it will be as a very long-term project. Which is obvious since Cryptic said Starbases were intended for fleets of like 25+, so small fleets like mine will likely never see the good stuff from Tier 3+, unless we grind on for years. (Llikely we have to grind for 3 years before we reach Tier 5 starbases, and we don't want to be grinding Marks for "years". There is only so much grinding before you burnout).
In my fleet, the projects continue but not at the breakneck speeds of other fleets who bought into this sense of urgency Cryptic is selling. It's a casual fleet, and I'm a big supporter of honest contributions. I suggest players think about their own interests and not just the fleet grind.
For example, those special projects at 200k dilithium, that is 1200 Zen at current exchange prices. If you have that lying around, you should weigh if that 1200 CP is worth more to you than a shiny new bar that you will probably never use. Same would go for those Sensor DOff assignment. You know sooner or later those DOffs will increase in frequency. You could always profit now and continue the grind later once it's cheaper. It's a win win for you.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
I have my little 1 person fleet with 6 alts in it that's chugging along nicely (7 more missions to hit Tier 1). I have 2 alts who concentrate on geting FMs, 2 low-level alts who do Starbase Incursion and help with some extras, and 2 alts who run dailies for Dilithium (the biggest roadblock I have at the moment).
I was knocking out a mission ever 1.5 days, but recently started getting tired of doing the same dailies each day, so I'm slowing down a little ( 1 mission each 2.5 days). That's fine with me; it's a game, so why force myself to do stuff I'm not enjoying?
My goal is to hit Tier 1, then just do missions casually to achieve Tier 2. How many missions is it to Tier 2, anyway? 150, I think?
I like the Starbases, as I'm once again playing older characters I'd given up on. Last night, the first character I ever created in STO (Feb. 2, 2010) completed all the PvE missions in the game! I didn't get a accolade or anything for this, but I was pretty pleased with the accomplishment.
Both of the fleets I'm in are plodding along as normal. The DOff situation has no impact. We have a harder time getting fleet marks and dilithium, being small fleets. But we're not in any hurry.
I've been soloing it, meaning to (and still meaning to) get to a tier 2 starbase, but as of the last week by enthusiasm for it just went right out the window. Mostly due to the threefold grind that starts after Tier 1. Assignments, giving less progress (though admitted other rewards) require more fleet marks than they did on the tier before, which is tolerable, I suppose, but also the need for relatively large quantities of dilithium compared to before, and the large numbers of specialized doffs, means now I don't just have to grind the marks, I have to grind marks, dilithium and duty officers. The end result, I last logged into the game saturday I think. Meant to yesterday. Might today. But I'll probably just play Skyrim.
Too much work. Even my KDF alts which are in mid-sized casual fleets have been seeing their fleet projects consistently stuck on the dilithium requirements. This is the stuff people are least willing to donate. Especially since the value of Zen on the dilithium exchange has plummeted to 150 or so dilithium, meaning you can buy more Zen with it than ever before (1500 Zen off of one character in a month), so most casual fleeters probably prefer to do that, and you get less dilithium for your Zen, putting off those who bought to contribute.
So yeah, don't care that much anymore. It'll get there when it gets there. No more inclination to schedule time for it.
Our pace has slowed a lot. A big in part to the DOFF snafu. And in part because it's my busy season at work. It's hard to rally your 'troops' when you can't get to the computer.
I've been working with my senior officers to stir things up a bit more, when they're leader can't always be there. That's what a good guild does. But, our EXP gaining pace has also slowed because we are avoiding projects that require masses of DOFFs. Support Local Systems, Reinforce Local Systems and Ongoing Research Projects and the provisioning ones are about all we can reasonably muster.
It's been a little depressing since Fleet week ended. Almost a week ago.
I am co-owner of a very small casual fleet. We are moving along as fast as we can, which to say, is not very. We are in no hurry. When we can contribute, we do. When we can't, we don't. We do not require contributions, though we do encourage it. We had an upgrade project the required three very rare specialized doffs. I purchased those and contributed them from my own account. I did one then waited a week to see if anyone else would do any. When they were still needed, I bought the other two. All I asked for in return, was that everyone keeps up the good work and continue to contribute what they can, when they can. We are at Tier one and moving along.
Is it possible to create a fleet with only the one person then? (ie, just yourself)
Yes and no.
No, you can't 'create' a fleet just by yourself. That said, there is nothing to stop you from asking 4 other friends to help you create one, and then have your 4 friends leave the fleet. Then, you are left with your own 'solo' fleet.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Back on topic, one of the fleets I'm in is small and we've hit a gridlock of sorts. We have a couple of missions stuck awaiting resources. One is a purple BO, so I know it is going to sit there for a while.
We aren't giving up, but I expect we'll be a couple of years reaching the end. It's not going to be our main focus, just something else to work on.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
to all small fleets its 100% your fail to not make a big bunch of big fleets to finish fast a T5 base.
i say it on first starbase day and say it again all small fleets will die and wastet all rescourses for nothing.;)
Of course some could say that getting to T3 is for nothing, let alone T4 or T5. It's not like you're getting any major bonuses for contributing to a Fleetbase. I think many people are going to get to T5 and then ask themselves why they even bothered. Of course that doesn't mean there's not going to be a lot more Fleetbase material in the coming years but for right now Fleetships you need to buy with Zen isn't really enough motivations, IMO.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
to all small fleets its 100% your fail to not make a big bunch of big fleets to finish fast a T5 base.
i say it on first starbase day and say it again all small fleets will die and wastet all rescourses for nothing.;)
I can't believe I going to do this because I think you are partically right - which is bad news for Cryptic - and bad news for them is bad news for all of us who love the game but - and I will quote Harry Kim from the last eps of VOY:
"Perhaps it's not the destination that matters but the Journey"
The longer answer is (NOTE - Skip the wall of text if you don't want to see it)...
This season held promise and the small fleet I was in started off with vim and vigor. We were constantly grouped, running the Fleet Mark missions and progressing quite aptly. Then we hit a wall...not resource-wise, but rather justification-wise. Some of our members began to question WHY we were doing this, WHAT we got out of it and HOW it helped our charater's progression at completing content. Some very good arguments were made there and exist on the forums:
All this time and energy invested just to have the chance to pay Cryptic another $20 for a marginally better ship?
Fleet items are marginally better (if that) than other items and could have been better with different modifiers.
Special projects costing 200k dilithium that are not really that special and offer little value. We should have been able to customize our interiors ourselves.
The functionality of things in the starbase are not better than we already have so what is the driving force.
The STF grind wore us out and this one appears to be the same. The existing Fleet missions (while very well done and are solid content) get old and the Season 6 content needed more variety.
With that about half of the fleet left for a couple of other games leaving about four of us logging and contributing. Add in now the increased costs of fleet projects with no increase in benefits to the Fleet and two more pretty much left (they do log in and still contribute but not like beofre). Now, we are left with being on the cusp of getting a Tier II starbase and have decided as a fleet to stop there completely. Only one person wants one ship from that tier and we will get it for him, but no further.
Add in:
Issues with the DOFF system, languishing PvP, Klingon Content, Crafting, Exploration and no movement on a horrid exchange system...
No comments on the 700-day DOFF reward, 700 zen single character suits, lock boxes abounding, and $25 ships that do not hold their value in terms of stats....
Lack of content and the overly repetitive nature of content game with no freshness or additions added for, well years....
Not capitalizing on the foundry and Starship Tier System with minimal functionality that is rapidly becoming problematic....
Only a limited amount of "end-game" content, severe bugs being pushed live constantly, and the bug list growing and ageing....
Ignoring simple relaively small fixes to improve repeatable content game-play (Reasons to go back to lower tier star clusters, return of sector defenses with rewards, introducing Fleet Marks to you know Fleet Actions....
In 2.5 years the game has made some solid improvements but it is far far far behind other games of similar age. I sold all the Zen I accrued from the Dil Exchange and this months stipend (yeah I fell for the 3-month sale but I have quickly been smacked back into reality and rectified the problem). I took that dilithium and kicked off as much as I could for the Klingon and Fed Fleets I am in as a goodbye.
I just look at all the threads and energy countless others have placed on these forums for the betterment of the game and what we hope it could become. I see the overwhelming miniscule response and action we get, sometimes being mocked in other social media. Star Trek was the only thing that kept me playing. Realizing the path this game is on will never really make it Star Trek was the final decision maker. Dunno, maybe in a year or two things may be different and improved, but it is going to take one heck of a paradigm shift in the development philosophy, priorities, focus, vision and direction of this game to make me even want to come back or even play another PWE/Cryptic game...
Smaller fleets are going to start losing members to the larger fleets who will be able to get their new ships and ultra rare Mk XII weapons to them sooner than the smaller fleets.
When is this going to start? When users start flying around in the new ships with the ultra rare Mk XII weapons.
Soloing a fleetbase will still happen, but the smaller fleets are going to get hurt from members wanting the new gear now, not later, and start leaving for the larger fleets.
I saw this happening as soon as they annouced fleet starbases were in the works.
Fleet starbases and Cryptic won't admit this, but fleet starbases were designed in part to elimate smaller fleets.
From what I have read the higher tiers are going to basically be a nightmare even for large fleets, so what do you think that will do to the smaller fleets.
Ell there are some projects that are started and completed before I can even contribute and on ones I thought were going to take some time to complete the Rotgut and Romulan ale one went a lot faster then I pictured.
to all small fleets its 100% your fail to not make a big bunch of big fleets to finish fast a T5 base.
i say it on first starbase day and say it again all small fleets will die and wastet all rescourses for nothing.;)
How exactly does a small fleet go about making a "big bunch of big fleets"?
I doubt that any small fleet that existed before starbases will fail just because of starbases.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I believe in time, if Cryptic were to find that Fleetbases were stalling-out around T3 they will either adjust requirements to get to T4/5 or provide bigger incentives for people to want to get to T4 and beyond. But the system is only 1.5 months old and most of the Fleets are probably like mine: at T1 working toward T2. Cryptic's going to need a few more months of actual data before they make big changes.
Totally agree here.
I think Cryptic will probably make adjustments, but maybe not as soon as some would like or make the changes that some would prefer.
We're now near the point at which all of the facilities are Tier 1. I see what T1 upgrades cost and I've gotten a gander at what the T3 Starbase upgrade looks like and I'm pretty sure that we won't see T3 in under a year unless our active membership expands a great deal.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Ell there are some projects that are started and completed before I can even contribute and on ones I thought were going to take some time to complete the Rotgut and Romulan ale one went a lot faster then I pictured.
yeah , i thought it'd take us bloody ages to do the bartender , but was really suprised how fast it got completed
im betting that the tailor will take a long time though
Cryptic won't admit this, but fleet starbases were designed in part to elimate smaller fleets.
I disagree with that.
The main purpose of the fleet advancement system is to play off the same gathering/collecting mentality as the DOFF system. By giving players a long term goal that sucks up collectable resources like an elephant draining a bucket, they keep people playing.
The danger is that the grind won't be satisfying and people will quit doing it. Cryptic may find they need bigger and better carrots... or easier to harvest carrots.
There is just as much danger, I think, that large fleets of impatient people will break up because some folks aren't reaping the benefits soon enough to suit themselves.
There are some, myself included, that would rather stick with a small fleet of people they know and trust rather than jump ship and risk getting into a bad fleet, or one that doesn't fit. We knew going in that Starbases weren't going to be an instant gratification kind of thing.
I'm just happy to have the fleet transwarp working now
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I gave up any real interest on starbases almost as soon as they went live. Costs are far to high for casual players like myself and I have no interest in larger fleet politics.
That being said, I'm about half way to T1 as of earlier today and i doubt I'll be putting much effort to getting beyond T1.
Comments
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I won't "name and shame", but I recall more than one case where famous "I quit" folks were found (sometimes by me) through the Captain's Database to have continued playing for quite some time. I miss that database.
Its slowed me down some
Ha. There is no time limit on "I quit!" Maybe they quit for an afternoon. They got their nap in, had a cookie, and felt better about life in general.
Since Day 1 of Starbases, my fleets were committed in stopping at Tier 1 since the rewards seemed lackluster and the costs being rather expensive higher up (especially Mark grinding). But my fleets of three is now halfway through Tier 2 with both Federation and KDF Fleets (doing them similtaneously). So we are committed in completing Tier 2.
Now with Tier 3, we thought at least reaching the Starbase, but given the costs of the upgrade someone posted resently, it discouraged us greatly. And if we do reach that far it will be as a very long-term project. Which is obvious since Cryptic said Starbases were intended for fleets of like 25+, so small fleets like mine will likely never see the good stuff from Tier 3+, unless we grind on for years. (Llikely we have to grind for 3 years before we reach Tier 5 starbases, and we don't want to be grinding Marks for "years". There is only so much grinding before you burnout).
both times saying I was going for a while
maybe its that sort of quit
For example, those special projects at 200k dilithium, that is 1200 Zen at current exchange prices. If you have that lying around, you should weigh if that 1200 CP is worth more to you than a shiny new bar that you will probably never use. Same would go for those Sensor DOff assignment. You know sooner or later those DOffs will increase in frequency. You could always profit now and continue the grind later once it's cheaper. It's a win win for you.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
I was knocking out a mission ever 1.5 days, but recently started getting tired of doing the same dailies each day, so I'm slowing down a little ( 1 mission each 2.5 days). That's fine with me; it's a game, so why force myself to do stuff I'm not enjoying?
My goal is to hit Tier 1, then just do missions casually to achieve Tier 2. How many missions is it to Tier 2, anyway? 150, I think?
I like the Starbases, as I'm once again playing older characters I'd given up on. Last night, the first character I ever created in STO (Feb. 2, 2010) completed all the PvE missions in the game! I didn't get a accolade or anything for this, but I was pretty pleased with the accomplishment.
Too much work. Even my KDF alts which are in mid-sized casual fleets have been seeing their fleet projects consistently stuck on the dilithium requirements. This is the stuff people are least willing to donate. Especially since the value of Zen on the dilithium exchange has plummeted to 150 or so dilithium, meaning you can buy more Zen with it than ever before (1500 Zen off of one character in a month), so most casual fleeters probably prefer to do that, and you get less dilithium for your Zen, putting off those who bought to contribute.
So yeah, don't care that much anymore. It'll get there when it gets there. No more inclination to schedule time for it.
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
I've been working with my senior officers to stir things up a bit more, when they're leader can't always be there. That's what a good guild does. But, our EXP gaining pace has also slowed because we are avoiding projects that require masses of DOFFs. Support Local Systems, Reinforce Local Systems and Ongoing Research Projects and the provisioning ones are about all we can reasonably muster.
It's been a little depressing since Fleet week ended. Almost a week ago.
Matthew@Matthew486DX -> Eng Lvl 60
FAW/Tank: Tactical Oddyessy T5-U, Tank/Heal Science Oddyessy T5-U, DPS Cruiser: A2B Battlecruiser T5-U, DPS/Debuff Tholian Recluse T5-U
Fleet Admiral: Angry Tribbles
Is it possible to create a fleet with only the one person then? (ie, just yourself)
Yes and no.
No, you can't 'create' a fleet just by yourself. That said, there is nothing to stop you from asking 4 other friends to help you create one, and then have your 4 friends leave the fleet. Then, you are left with your own 'solo' fleet.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We aren't giving up, but I expect we'll be a couple of years reaching the end. It's not going to be our main focus, just something else to work on.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
to all small fleets its 100% your fail to not make a big bunch of big fleets to finish fast a T5 base.
i say it on first starbase day and say it again all small fleets will die and wastet all rescourses for nothing.;)
he say doooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmm!
I can't believe I going to do this because I think you are partically right - which is bad news for Cryptic - and bad news for them is bad news for all of us who love the game but - and I will quote Harry Kim from the last eps of VOY:
"Perhaps it's not the destination that matters but the Journey"
So there is a flip side for many people still.
Seems a shame that we really only see the flip side of so many people around here.
The longer answer is (NOTE - Skip the wall of text if you don't want to see it)...
This season held promise and the small fleet I was in started off with vim and vigor. We were constantly grouped, running the Fleet Mark missions and progressing quite aptly. Then we hit a wall...not resource-wise, but rather justification-wise. Some of our members began to question WHY we were doing this, WHAT we got out of it and HOW it helped our charater's progression at completing content. Some very good arguments were made there and exist on the forums:
With that about half of the fleet left for a couple of other games leaving about four of us logging and contributing. Add in now the increased costs of fleet projects with no increase in benefits to the Fleet and two more pretty much left (they do log in and still contribute but not like beofre). Now, we are left with being on the cusp of getting a Tier II starbase and have decided as a fleet to stop there completely. Only one person wants one ship from that tier and we will get it for him, but no further.
Add in:
In 2.5 years the game has made some solid improvements but it is far far far behind other games of similar age. I sold all the Zen I accrued from the Dil Exchange and this months stipend (yeah I fell for the 3-month sale but I have quickly been smacked back into reality and rectified the problem). I took that dilithium and kicked off as much as I could for the Klingon and Fed Fleets I am in as a goodbye.
I just look at all the threads and energy countless others have placed on these forums for the betterment of the game and what we hope it could become. I see the overwhelming miniscule response and action we get, sometimes being mocked in other social media. Star Trek was the only thing that kept me playing. Realizing the path this game is on will never really make it Star Trek was the final decision maker. Dunno, maybe in a year or two things may be different and improved, but it is going to take one heck of a paradigm shift in the development philosophy, priorities, focus, vision and direction of this game to make me even want to come back or even play another PWE/Cryptic game...
YES I give up, completely.
When is this going to start? When users start flying around in the new ships with the ultra rare Mk XII weapons.
Soloing a fleetbase will still happen, but the smaller fleets are going to get hurt from members wanting the new gear now, not later, and start leaving for the larger fleets.
I saw this happening as soon as they annouced fleet starbases were in the works.
Fleet starbases and Cryptic won't admit this, but fleet starbases were designed in part to elimate smaller fleets.
From what I have read the higher tiers are going to basically be a nightmare even for large fleets, so what do you think that will do to the smaller fleets.
Ell there are some projects that are started and completed before I can even contribute and on ones I thought were going to take some time to complete the Rotgut and Romulan ale one went a lot faster then I pictured.
How exactly does a small fleet go about making a "big bunch of big fleets"?
I doubt that any small fleet that existed before starbases will fail just because of starbases.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Totally agree here.
I think Cryptic will probably make adjustments, but maybe not as soon as some would like or make the changes that some would prefer.
We're now near the point at which all of the facilities are Tier 1. I see what T1 upgrades cost and I've gotten a gander at what the T3 Starbase upgrade looks like and I'm pretty sure that we won't see T3 in under a year unless our active membership expands a great deal.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
yeah , i thought it'd take us bloody ages to do the bartender , but was really suprised how fast it got completed
im betting that the tailor will take a long time though
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
I disagree with that.
The main purpose of the fleet advancement system is to play off the same gathering/collecting mentality as the DOFF system. By giving players a long term goal that sucks up collectable resources like an elephant draining a bucket, they keep people playing.
The danger is that the grind won't be satisfying and people will quit doing it. Cryptic may find they need bigger and better carrots... or easier to harvest carrots.
There is just as much danger, I think, that large fleets of impatient people will break up because some folks aren't reaping the benefits soon enough to suit themselves.
There are some, myself included, that would rather stick with a small fleet of people they know and trust rather than jump ship and risk getting into a bad fleet, or one that doesn't fit. We knew going in that Starbases weren't going to be an instant gratification kind of thing.
I'm just happy to have the fleet transwarp working now
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
That being said, I'm about half way to T1 as of earlier today and i doubt I'll be putting much effort to getting beyond T1.