Assuming STO's foundry gets updated after NW launches, it sounds like they have solved this problem:
Quests award XP based on how long the players spent playing them - a five-minute quest only gives a fraction of how much an hour-long quest will award.
Assuming STO's foundry gets updated after NW launches, it sounds like they have solved this problem:
Quests award XP based on how long the players spent playing them - a five-minute quest only gives a fraction of how much an hour-long quest will award.
Time in-mission is still exploitable. Start a solo quest, set up a macro to send a keystroke every few minutes, and let the game churn during your downtime while you're asleep, at work, etc. It's simply the opposite of a clickthru mission that still requires no real activity.
Not that I'd ever do that.
EDIT: After reading the article, I am totally hyped wondering when they're going to put all of those features into STO's Foundry...
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Time in-mission is still exploitable. Start a solo quest, set up a macro to send a keystroke every few minutes, and let the game churn during your downtime while you're asleep, at work, etc. It's simply the opposite of a clickthru mission that still requires no real activity.
Not that I'd ever do that.
EDIT: After reading the article, I am totally hyped wondering when they're going to put all of those features into STO's Foundry...
Yeah, but that kind of behavior is VERY detectable programmatically. So if they care to do so, they can deal with it.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
EDIT: After reading the article, I am totally hyped wondering when they're going to put all of those features into STO's Foundry...
I assume once NWN is launched - and hopefully it's launch will go better then GW2's - and established the Foundry team will be able to divert its attention to STO. And then we'll be able to see some of these new features.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
And, over a year later from that post, as Tobar posted, Cryptic doesn't seem to have much of an issue with it. There are even Dev posts on Twitter about some of the exploit Missions the Devs run just for the heck of it.
Ah yes, but it's important to note that Devs twitter accounts are their personal feeds normally rather than official Cryptic ones (in spite of some of their names) and should be taken as such.
I believe they said you could earn that time-based XP only up to 4 hours a day or some such. So yeah you could make a bot for it, but after 4 hours you wouldn't get anything. People may still consider that worthwhile, but they run the risk of getting caught..
I like it, I think the current STO system is set up the wrong way around. There is a large portion of players who will only participate in a system if there is a tangible reward. It's certainly their right to do so. A lot of them are discerning, thoughtful people who would likely enjoy Foundry missions if they gave them a chance. But they don't, because they can get the reward in 2 seconds and move on to something else.
Consequently, a lot of people are missing out on some of the best content in the game because they can get the same reward in 2 seconds and don't have to put in the time, time they might enjoy more if they tried it.
The system needs to encourage the player to spend time in Foundry missions, rather than just complete them. Exploiters are going to exploit, no matter what you do. Minimize the potential exploits if you can, but ignore those types of players. What we need now is a system that draws in the players who want the shinies and are willing to put in the time if that's what it takes.
I assume once NWN is launched - and hopefully it's launch will go better then GW2's - and established the Foundry team will be able to divert its attention to STO. And then we'll be able to see some of these new features.
I've got a bad feeling that the foundry team wont be coming back to STO any time soon after NW's launch. I have a feeling they will be staying over there for another 3-6 months getting post launch issues worked out and making adjustments based on feedback.
Time in-mission is still exploitable. Start a solo quest, set up a macro to send a keystroke every few minutes, and let the game churn during your downtime while you're asleep, at work, etc. It's simply the opposite of a clickthru mission that still requires no real activity.
Not that I'd ever do that.
EDIT: After reading the article, I am totally hyped wondering when they're going to put all of those features into STO's Foundry...
You could do that. Of course, rewards could be set to max out at 30 minutes or 45 minutes.
You could do that. Of course, rewards could be set to max out at 30 minutes or 45 minutes.
Any such system penalized more advanced or speedy players. Letting Mr. Slowpoke get better rewards because it takes him twice as long to do something - or because he wants to fly around and look at asteroids for 10 minutes - won't make for a better game experience. It will simply make people spend more time AFK or doing other things while gaming, IMO.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Any such system penalized more advanced or speedy players. Letting Mr. Slowpoke get better rewards because it takes him twice as long to do something - or because he wants to fly around and look at asteroids for 10 minutes - won't make for a better game experience. It will simply make people spend more time AFK or doing other things while gaming, IMO.
I believe the general point with Foundry as Cryptic sees it IS to read the dialogue and fly around and look at the asteroids.
If the rumors in this thread are right, the solution sounds like a happy medium.
You get kill XP. You get rewards both for each mission you complete and up to 4 hours of missions.
Which means: Complete more missions in 4 hours, get more rewards. Take your time over 4 hours, get decent rewards. Play less than 4 hours, get less rewards. Play none and get no rewards.
The balancing is not unlike DOff assignments. Long assignments pay more. Lots of short assignments pay better than few long ones. There is both a minimum time and reward and a maximum time and reward.
I have a somewhat different point of view to most here. I think the clicker missions are still around on purpose.
Think about it for a moment:
1) They promote the sale of more character slots, most people get bored and never even farm up enough dil to make up the cost of the extra slots. And then those extra characters, if they get leveled up will require gearing..... $$$$
2) It helps cement the belief that everything is indeed attainable without spending RL cash, but very few are actually disciplined enough to grind console clickers every day while not letting their desire to get something now get the better of them and laying out cash.
Say you want a ship, 2500 Zen is too much in RL cash for it, but you figure you can grind console clickers to get it; you get halfway there before you break down and buy the other half with cash. That's 1250 Zen Cryptic just sold that it wouldn't have otherwise. Don't forget Virtual items don't cost Cryptic anything beyond the initial design expenditure, so selling one at half price is better than not at all.
3) Having a clear if long term way to get Zen is a perfect way to let them keep high Z-store prices. In the back of everyone's mind they always know they could get an item for less because console clickers are readily available, Imagine if that was not the case? What if you had to farm up all those Zen the normal ways.... I bet most people would stop taking that into consideration when looking at Z store prices. Suddenly the prices would seem much much higher than they do now. In fact people would realize that more often than not they pay most if not all of the high price because they never DO get around to farming up the console clickers.
Notice points 2 and 3 are different, one deals with a sale where there would've been none, and the other deals with being able to set a higher base price with the mostly unrealized potential to be brought down.
If I was Cryptic I would leave the console clickers just as they are. They really do help promote sales. Especially now with the Dil hungry Fleet Bases. If anything the fact they demand a steady high quantity of Dil is opening people's eyes to points 2 and 3.... I'm surprised Cryptic isn't lowering the raw DIl cost on starbases lest the playerbase become demotivated and start realizing points 1, 2, and 3!
Edit: I can't believe I forgot to mention possibly the greatest benefit for Cryptic of the console clickers! They make people log in, even if not everyday. They might not log in for regular dailies but they will find the time for the console clickers. This is incredibly important since it keeps a customer viable for longer by running into friends and constantly reminding them of the good times and if they come out with something that interest them it might make them start to log back in everyday..... we know the longer you stay in game the greater teh chances of oyu buing something. Also... lockbox spam! lol
I have a somewhat different point of view to most here. I think the clicker missions are still around on purpose.
Think about it for a moment:
1) They promote the sale of more character slots, most people get bored and never even farm up enough dil to make up the cost of the extra slots. And then those extra characters, if they get leveled up will require gearing..... $$$$
2) It helps cement the belief that everything is indeed attainable without spending RL cash, but very few are actually disciplined enough to grind console clickers every day while not letting their desire to get something now get the better of them and laying out cash.
Say you want a ship, 2500 Zen is too much in RL cash for it, but you figure you can grind console clickers to get it; you get halfway there before you break down and buy the other half with cash. That's 1250 Zen Cryptic just sold that it wouldn't have otherwise. Don't forget Virtual items don't cost Cryptic anything beyond the initial design expenditure, so selling one at half price is better than not at all.
3) Having a clear if long term way to get Zen is a perfect way to let them keep high Z-store prices. In the back of everyone's mind they always know they could get an item for less because console clickers are readily available, Imagine if that was not the case? What if you had to farm up all those Zen the normal ways.... I bet most people would stop taking that into consideration when looking at Z store prices. Suddenly the prices would seem much much higher than they do now. In fact people would realize that more often than not they pay most if not all of the high price because they never DO get around to farming up the console clickers.
Notice points 2 and 3 are different, one deals with a sale where there would've been none, and the other deals with being able to set a higher base price with the mostly unrealized potential to be brought down.
If I was Cryptic I would leave the console clickers just as they are. They really do help promote sales. Especially now with the Dil hungry Fleet Bases. If anything the fact they demand a steady high quantity of Dil is opening people's eyes to points 2 and 3.... I'm surprised Cryptic isn't lowering the raw DIl cost on starbases lest the playerbase become demotivated and start realizing points 1, 2, and 3!
Edit: I can't believe I forgot to mention possibly the greatest benefit for Cryptic of the console clickers! They make people log in, even if not everyday. They might not log in for regular dailies but they will find the time for the console clickers. This is incredibly important since it keeps a customer viable for longer by running into friends and constantly reminding them of the good times and if they come out with something that interest them it might make them start to log back in everyday..... we know the longer you stay in game the greater teh chances of oyu buing something. Also... lockbox spam! lol
I'd probably eliminate them in favor of a better Foundry system but I think 1500 or so free dilithium a day for logging in is a good idea in some form and not unlike, say, the Funhouse in DCU Online. Because getting people to login gets the hooks in for a dilithium purchase or a C-Store sale.
Since rewards are based off of the average completion time of the quest, this kind of exploit wouldn't work, and you would just get trash from the chest.
Yes, they are scaling mission rewards based upon average mission completion time. This kills 1-click missions, because the shorter the mission the less reward you get. In other words, 1-click = junk. And there is nothing you can personally do to game the system(like going AFK) since it is based on average time, not your personal time.
Edit: These clickers have been around forever. Even been advertised on STOked. And going by the pileups on ESD, their use is widespread. I grant you it's kind of abuse. But then, that's the nature of our relationship with Cryptic these days, I guess.
They just screwed up with dilithium. First merging all the currencies into one (to make room for what, half a dozen new ones?), then siphoning off value from people who'd collected more than X worth of dilithium (but here's a bridge officer whose shoulder you can cry on), then the refining cap (collect currency as you go?... from alt to alt, I hope you mean), requiring it for things that never required any special currency before (eng1: So I had this idea... eng2: Yeah? eng1: Yeah, you know how no one can beat the Crystalline entity? eng2: Yeah. eng1: So what if... Starships made out of crystal! eng2: Awesome idea! But where would we get all that crystal? eng1: We'll just sell some Tacs a bag of mixed nuts and bolts to make their phasers 'shoot good', and tell them they can't be replicated. eng2: Do me over the warp core right now!) and then there's the new system... (eng2: Maybe I banged my head on the injector assembly one time too many, but... why stop at starships?)
Too much pressure. Versus no progress at all in any playstyle remotely casual.
Comments
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/8/18/3251244/neverwinter-foundry-lets-you-build-anything-from-pvp-to-text
Anybody besides me see the problem with that?
Time in-mission is still exploitable. Start a solo quest, set up a macro to send a keystroke every few minutes, and let the game churn during your downtime while you're asleep, at work, etc. It's simply the opposite of a clickthru mission that still requires no real activity.
Not that I'd ever do that.
EDIT: After reading the article, I am totally hyped wondering when they're going to put all of those features into STO's Foundry...
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Yeah, but that kind of behavior is VERY detectable programmatically. So if they care to do so, they can deal with it.
Ah yes, but it's important to note that Devs twitter accounts are their personal feeds normally rather than official Cryptic ones (in spite of some of their names) and should be taken as such.
I like it, I think the current STO system is set up the wrong way around. There is a large portion of players who will only participate in a system if there is a tangible reward. It's certainly their right to do so. A lot of them are discerning, thoughtful people who would likely enjoy Foundry missions if they gave them a chance. But they don't, because they can get the reward in 2 seconds and move on to something else.
Consequently, a lot of people are missing out on some of the best content in the game because they can get the same reward in 2 seconds and don't have to put in the time, time they might enjoy more if they tried it.
The system needs to encourage the player to spend time in Foundry missions, rather than just complete them. Exploiters are going to exploit, no matter what you do. Minimize the potential exploits if you can, but ignore those types of players. What we need now is a system that draws in the players who want the shinies and are willing to put in the time if that's what it takes.
In any case, if someone was looking for a list of great Foundry missions, they need search no further than here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=286621
I've got a bad feeling that the foundry team wont be coming back to STO any time soon after NW's launch. I have a feeling they will be staying over there for another 3-6 months getting post launch issues worked out and making adjustments based on feedback.
You could do that. Of course, rewards could be set to max out at 30 minutes or 45 minutes.
I believe the general point with Foundry as Cryptic sees it IS to read the dialogue and fly around and look at the asteroids.
If the rumors in this thread are right, the solution sounds like a happy medium.
You get kill XP. You get rewards both for each mission you complete and up to 4 hours of missions.
Which means: Complete more missions in 4 hours, get more rewards. Take your time over 4 hours, get decent rewards. Play less than 4 hours, get less rewards. Play none and get no rewards.
The balancing is not unlike DOff assignments. Long assignments pay more. Lots of short assignments pay better than few long ones. There is both a minimum time and reward and a maximum time and reward.
Think about it for a moment:
1) They promote the sale of more character slots, most people get bored and never even farm up enough dil to make up the cost of the extra slots. And then those extra characters, if they get leveled up will require gearing..... $$$$
2) It helps cement the belief that everything is indeed attainable without spending RL cash, but very few are actually disciplined enough to grind console clickers every day while not letting their desire to get something now get the better of them and laying out cash.
Say you want a ship, 2500 Zen is too much in RL cash for it, but you figure you can grind console clickers to get it; you get halfway there before you break down and buy the other half with cash. That's 1250 Zen Cryptic just sold that it wouldn't have otherwise. Don't forget Virtual items don't cost Cryptic anything beyond the initial design expenditure, so selling one at half price is better than not at all.
3) Having a clear if long term way to get Zen is a perfect way to let them keep high Z-store prices. In the back of everyone's mind they always know they could get an item for less because console clickers are readily available, Imagine if that was not the case? What if you had to farm up all those Zen the normal ways.... I bet most people would stop taking that into consideration when looking at Z store prices. Suddenly the prices would seem much much higher than they do now. In fact people would realize that more often than not they pay most if not all of the high price because they never DO get around to farming up the console clickers.
Notice points 2 and 3 are different, one deals with a sale where there would've been none, and the other deals with being able to set a higher base price with the mostly unrealized potential to be brought down.
If I was Cryptic I would leave the console clickers just as they are. They really do help promote sales. Especially now with the Dil hungry Fleet Bases. If anything the fact they demand a steady high quantity of Dil is opening people's eyes to points 2 and 3.... I'm surprised Cryptic isn't lowering the raw DIl cost on starbases lest the playerbase become demotivated and start realizing points 1, 2, and 3!
Edit: I can't believe I forgot to mention possibly the greatest benefit for Cryptic of the console clickers! They make people log in, even if not everyday. They might not log in for regular dailies but they will find the time for the console clickers. This is incredibly important since it keeps a customer viable for longer by running into friends and constantly reminding them of the good times and if they come out with something that interest them it might make them start to log back in everyday..... we know the longer you stay in game the greater teh chances of oyu buing something. Also... lockbox spam! lol
I'd probably eliminate them in favor of a better Foundry system but I think 1500 or so free dilithium a day for logging in is a good idea in some form and not unlike, say, the Funhouse in DCU Online. Because getting people to login gets the hooks in for a dilithium purchase or a C-Store sale.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=190111#post190111
Yes, they are scaling mission rewards based upon average mission completion time. This kills 1-click missions, because the shorter the mission the less reward you get. In other words, 1-click = junk. And there is nothing you can personally do to game the system(like going AFK) since it is based on average time, not your personal time.
Edit: These clickers have been around forever. Even been advertised on STOked. And going by the pileups on ESD, their use is widespread. I grant you it's kind of abuse. But then, that's the nature of our relationship with Cryptic these days, I guess.
They just screwed up with dilithium. First merging all the currencies into one (to make room for what, half a dozen new ones?), then siphoning off value from people who'd collected more than X worth of dilithium (but here's a bridge officer whose shoulder you can cry on), then the refining cap (collect currency as you go?... from alt to alt, I hope you mean), requiring it for things that never required any special currency before (eng1: So I had this idea... eng2: Yeah? eng1: Yeah, you know how no one can beat the Crystalline entity? eng2: Yeah. eng1: So what if... Starships made out of crystal! eng2: Awesome idea! But where would we get all that crystal? eng1: We'll just sell some Tacs a bag of mixed nuts and bolts to make their phasers 'shoot good', and tell them they can't be replicated. eng2: Do me over the warp core right now!) and then there's the new system... (eng2: Maybe I banged my head on the injector assembly one time too many, but... why stop at starships?)
Too much pressure. Versus no progress at all in any playstyle remotely casual.