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Gal-R underpowered/poorly designed
shimmerless
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I was thinking of posting this in a less-trafficked board but since this is really directed towards the devs, why not this one.
The Galaxy classes, and in particular the Galaxy-R, are very oddly designed. It's crippled from the start by a god awful turn rate, even by cruiser standards... it only comes with two Tac consoles, which would be acceptable (even if it isn't nearly enough to get by in this day and age) except the toy console is saucer sep... what on earth were they thinking? Why put saucer sep on a ship that has zero teeth?
There isn't even anything particularly tanky about the Gal-R... it only has ~4.5k more hull than a bug (and 2k less than an Operations Ody). It just has no unique selling point and isn't built towards any special end other than as a very generic healboat.
Personally, I would fix it by giving it a Lt. Com. Sci and bumping the Lt. Com. Eng down to a Lt, as well as an extra Sci console. Some also feel an extra Tac console would help immensely, which is fair too.
It's kind of criminal that any Star Trek game can get away with not releasing a Galaxy variant that doesn't make you feel like a dumbass for flying it.
Please donate just 10 cents a month to save the poor Galaxy!
The Galaxy classes, and in particular the Galaxy-R, are very oddly designed. It's crippled from the start by a god awful turn rate, even by cruiser standards... it only comes with two Tac consoles, which would be acceptable (even if it isn't nearly enough to get by in this day and age) except the toy console is saucer sep... what on earth were they thinking? Why put saucer sep on a ship that has zero teeth?
There isn't even anything particularly tanky about the Gal-R... it only has ~4.5k more hull than a bug (and 2k less than an Operations Ody). It just has no unique selling point and isn't built towards any special end other than as a very generic healboat.
Personally, I would fix it by giving it a Lt. Com. Sci and bumping the Lt. Com. Eng down to a Lt, as well as an extra Sci console. Some also feel an extra Tac console would help immensely, which is fair too.
It's kind of criminal that any Star Trek game can get away with not releasing a Galaxy variant that doesn't make you feel like a dumbass for flying it.
Please donate just 10 cents a month to save the poor Galaxy!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Post edited by shimmerless on
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I'd be totally up for like a Lt. Cmdr science (as I mentioned in the thread where you linked me here), just because having something like a TSS 3, or something along those lines, would make it an honestly much more viable ship. I don't think the loss of a 2nd Lt. Cmdr Engineering ability would hurt this ship very much at all.
for just 2000 Zen and a year or so long grind for a Starbase.
imho the Gal-R was pretty good, the real benefit of saucer Sep isn't the Saucer pet but the reduced turn rate.
my problems are more with the Visuals, the Galaxy Class just looks like a place holder from a pre-Beta state.
the +1 C-Store variant has missing windows under it's saucer which gives me horrible OCD so i can't fly that thing anymore.
the by now mediocre stats give it the rest
and before anybody comes in and tells me that they can't make the Galaxy Class look more accurate because it's an MMO and polycounts and whatever, look at the +1 Variant or the Oddyssey, both have a hell of a lot more Detail, they can do it if they just want to.
and no i am not asking for another random +1 variant either, i don't care for those 2409 Skins, i want the ORIGINAL to look as accurate as possible.
The Star Trek Hero Ships (Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid, Sovereign, Constitution) in this game look just not good enough.
They were rushed as everything else before release and then polished up a bit with a hot iron so that they werent as horrible as before but they are nowhere near GOOD at this point.
Look the Galaxy is fine
you want an all powerful super cruiser look at newer ships
The Galaxy R is a multi role MISSION ship
And LTC Sci? No........ The Galaxy is a tank for a reason.
If anything was to be improved, it would be to give her that canonical fast-turn capability.
I think what you really need is just to wait for the Galaxy X Retrofit.
Speaking of heartbreaking looks, I was saddened that the Galaxy's trademark deflector was not available if you use the 900-day veteran skin. The Gal, Gal-X, and Nebula all get the 'blue eye' when using the skin.
Did you even read the thread title, like honestly?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Well, that doesn't really make any sense... the Ops Ody outclasses the Gal-R in literally every single way (you can even duplicate the exact same layout if you really desire)... I suppose you could say you're more comfortable with the way the Gal-R 'handles' but the only difference is a staggering five less inertia on the Ops Ody. 99% of the time a point difference that low isn't even noticeable.
And this is just to stress, I'm not looking for a Gal-R that can compete with the Ody (though I wouldn't say no either!), I just want it to be on par with other endgame ships.
After reading up on the archives a little, I like this setup:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4696711&postcount=122
Sensor Analysis would be nice too (and don't tell me it's a Sci exclusive because that stupid damn catbox got it, bite me). Now you'd have a ship that you can't safely ignore.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
As stats say, the fleet version will be an ultimate tank with its 44k hull (more than any other ship in the fleet). Please, make the ensign universal. It won't step on Odyssey's toes. Pretty please...
What you fail to understand, and have failed to understand every time this subject is brought up, is that in terms of actual gameplay rather than your conceptual, self-established purpose for the ship, it is completely inadequate compared to its peers. The Ensign Engineering slot is completely redundant because of the amount of shared cooldowns in the early Engineering ability tree. Engineering Team just steps on the toes of Tactical Team, which has far greater utility on any starship because of its instant shield redistribution.
You want your "multi-role mission ship?" Then stop objecting to the idea of diversifying the ship's capabilities to put it on par with every other Cruiser at endgame. An Ensign Universal or Lieutenant Commander Science station give the ship more flexibility, which it needs to be a viable competitor to every other ship you have to pay money for, and fits into your "vision."
Is this making any sense to you?
And dont kid yourself turnrate in a tank ship is of massive benfit. Negvar gets 3 tac consoles and can do decent dmg, galaxy r gets 2 and has subpar dmg. Again dont kid yourself dmg is important even if your a tank or support in this game as all the objectives are based on time thus faster you kill the better relegating ships like galaxy r with lowest dps to utter uselessness.
Forcing a ship to use a special console to get decent turnrate just to make it manageable enough to be fun to play /sigh bad game design. Making that console that should be toggleable 5min cooldown even on death with 1 shotting npc invis torpedos /slaps dev* worse design.
I think a few things could honestly easily be changed turning the galaxy r into a decent ship.
1) Make the saucer seperation console be toggleable, while equipped as a static console bonus give it +3 degrees per sec turnrate that would bump it up to on par with the sov, and im not talking base turnrate but over all.
2) Make seperation increase weapons power like it does now but when toggled the turnrate bonus is slightly less to make up for the now static bonus. Not everyone wants to fly around in seperation mode all the time some people might actually like fighting as a galaxy and not a stardrive, i know crazy right?
3) At current it has 4 eng/3 sci/ 2 tac consoles. Change it to 3/3/3/ as the galaxy was a versital ship and switching 1 eng for 1 tac would keep the tankablity/survivablity the same as you would lose some survivability for dmg which would kill things faster taking less heals.
4) Switch the 3rd ensign eng to a universal, those who want to keep 3 ensign eng can those who dont want to can use a tac or sci fitting the role of a versital ship.
5) Lower the inertia some, it wouldnt take a lot but anything here would help.
These changes would balanace the ship a lil more within itself. Considering the way the game is so dmged based min tac consoles per ship should really be 3 sadly even on all the sci ships, but it would be better if the devs just moved away from time based dps crunched objectives.
The Galaxy wasnt a slow useless hulk in the shows, it was a powerful exploration class battleship. These changes wouldnt make it OP believe me, this would put it more in line with the Sci Odd, but the Sci oddy would still be on top, here is why.
Sci odd would have more health. More shield, more Sci console slots for shield gens. Turnrate in chevron would prolly be same as galaxy in seperation so tie. Sensor annal > 1 more tac console but only slightly so close race there. +1 eng console giving it more surviability, the sensor annal is = to having a tac console roughly so console wise the Sci oddy is more like a 4/4/3. Odd can also equip 2 more special consoles if the player wants with a 3pc bonus. Sci odd also would still have more Uni boff slots allowing for greater versitility. Also Odd has more crew a lot more.
Are these major advantages no, but odd would still be on top which seems to be what devs want but what it would do is balance the Gal R a lil more with it and the other T5s. When i talk about things like this i imagine if i was fighting it would i consider it OP vs any of my ships. Honestly id say i would fight this in my AC, or any other ship and call it balanced, it its unbalanced whats that make the Sci oddy then?
the sci oddy has it too
honestly the only thing that the gal-r needs fixing is the ensign engineering. it's a wasted slot at the least the should be a sci slot at the most a uni slot
other then that no issues i flew the ship for over a year until recently getting the regent
It's slow
Can barley turn around without using special
Powers
It can't pull it's weight I'n elite stfs
It can't pull it's weight I'n fleet events
Is useless I'n pvp
Multi role ? Role I'n what ?
Multiple purpose , I'n what propose ?
I love the ship class and almost all cruisers
But Cruisers are third world citizens I'n this game
There only purpose is to be a moving ( slow ) target
For ships 1/4 it's size to blow up with ease.
That about covers Cruisers and engineers I'n space
Too fix this would be easy but I doubt cryptic is interested
I'n game balance
Add passive ability to engineer/Space
100% torpedo weapon damage
200% beam array damage
Engineers should be close to a decent Dps then
Without a lot of reprogramming on cryptics part
To be shot that can hardly shoot back.
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
A Galaxy R is an ideal ship for completing missions when
1 you don't know what or who to expect
2 you do not have back up or support readily available
3 you do not want to actually respawn if at all possible
As to the Ensign Eng
there are a LOT of useful Eng skills at ensign level (its not as useless as a Ensign tac seems to be )
Emergency power for example (I carry Emergency power to several things on different boffs and can cycle them out as needed)
Engineering team is valuable but I have that in my Chief engineers powers list
Remember the R is obsolete
its not supposed to be state of the art or super powerful
Yes, Cruisers for the foremost are lacking compared to Escorts, mainly because of their lack of damage potential and that in STO there is no real function for a tank. But I heavily disagree they can't pull their weight.
Do they fail at pulling their weight in Elite STFs, Fleet Events and PvP? My answer is this: It depends on the Captain.
I myself have all too often been in all-cruiser groups that failed at getting the Optionals in Infected Space and Khitomer Space, and fail to succeed in the Fleet Red Alert, and Cruisers are easy pickings in PvP. HOWEVER, I've seen the opposite as well. Really, this is a benchmark of GREAT Cruiser Captains is when they do succeed in pulling off these. While I seen the failures, I also seen plenty of successes with all-cruiser groups.
In PvP, I've known some extraordinary captains that were literally impossible to kill as a Cruiser. And this was in a Basic Sovereign! This famous PvP individual shrugged off 4 escorts at the same time.
But for the foremost as a Cruiser captain, I don't disagree that they do need more umph. That or Escorts get their status lowered a bit. This game is more about killing things fast than outlasting them. No Win is a perfect example of this.
Will Cryptic balance things? Depends on the Cruiser community.
/10charfffffff
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Get elite omega space gear a full set
Only then will you understand how poor
The cruiser line is
I have done this I'n my Excelcior and I fly it well.
Battleships and dreadnoughts should not have 1/4
Of the firepower of ship designed to escort it.
Who hits harder I'n a elite STF a Borg bird of prey
A Borg raptor or a Borg neg'var ?
If you have any experience in elite stfs you know the answer
A bigger ship has mote room for more and bigger weapons
That simple logic
Got a gal x too
Got the oddy 3 PAC
None of them put out anywhere close to the Dps
That they should, that's a simple fact
A lot of Fun factor could be put I'n this game and money made
By this company simply by doing simple balancing .
Anyone who says these ships are balanced needs
Some driving time I'n a class other than tactical .
Ship and character wise.
I'n Starfleet command 90% of the game play was pvp because
It was balanced
Look at the empty pvp rooms I'n this game
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The Fleet Galaxy also is lacking in tac consoles with only 2 as well, but at least that thing looks like it will be one of the best tanks in the game with 4 eng and 4 sci consoles, it will be able to do about as good as an Oddy, or Fleet Star cruiser in tanking if not better.
SOFA, why was I thinking Dreadnaught? /facepalm
Okay, let me re-evaluate what I said. YES, the Galaxy is somewhat of a disappointment due to its sluggish nature. At one point in time the Turn Rate was actually 5 and people convinced Cryptic to up it to 6. I remember people in the early days hated turning the Galaxy around in having to go back to loot or the fun of climbing up / down.
When the Odyssey came along, I knew she would replace the Galaxy completely and the only ones flying her is mainly fans of the Galaxy.
But even though I mistook you saying G-R for G-X, my point is till relevant in that adding a LTC Sci station isn't going to help. Because 1) CBS signed off on these particular BO slots and for a reason. So Cryptic isn't going to change that. 2) The Galaxy supposed to be a tank, and Engineering powers are more relevant for the Galaxy. 3) Never know, the Ambassador could very well have that LTC Sci slot.
Now if you ask me in how to improve the Galaxy, it is this:
Cryptic adds that canonical fast turn capability that we see the Enterprise-D do in TNG. And the limitation on this ability is that it only works from a complete stop or very, very low speeds (under 1/4 impulse).
the gal R should proboly be one of the worst turning cruisers, but it should be higher then 6. all fed cruisers should have their turn rate buffed by 2, then you could actually compare fed and kdf cruisers. currently 1 are night and day better then the other.
then theres the problem with the stations. at ens, there are only the EPtX abilities that are all on the same cool down, and ET1 which SUCKS, and screws up your team ability cool downs. this is worse then the defiant's 3 tac ensigns, you can still find a use for those.
and the consoles. in my experience, you need at least 3 energy type tac consoles to do damage over time that is not worthless. not even the fleet version having 3 tac consoles is inexcusable cryptic, stop hating this ship for no reason.
the fleet negvar has a universal ensign and 3 tac consoles. at the very least the fleet galaxy should have no less. the saucer separation is basically useless to the ship, and its up time is too low to rely on. the separation with the MVAM is totally different, its on a ship that already built to use high damage, low arc weapons, the separation helps it do its job better. on the galaxy its only useful for turning around and grabbing loot, and keeping ES on an escort who's not smart enough to stick close to you.
the galaxy is a huge, versatile, modular ship, it would never have the most focused and restrictive setup that it has in game. at least the ensign station should be universal. and thats in the galaxy R.
the fleet version should have the exact same hit point stats, only it should have both LT and the ENS station universal. and have a 3rd tac console. thats not nearly as impressive or overpowered as it might sound. the COM and LTC stations are still engineering, its only the low level powers in play. you could set it up like it was before, asult cruiser style, star cruiser style, or a few unique options. both LTs being the same type, and the ens being the other type, or havering all those stations be 1 type or the other, so the ship only has 2 station types. still, no high end powers from other types would be in play here, and the in game galaxy would finally worth using, and not step on the toes of its replacement, the odyssey.
But even canonically the Gal-R is not that much of a pig. I know it makes some in-game logic to have larger ships turn slower but the Gal-R is to the point of silliness, it can't mount high powered weapons anyway so why does it have inferior turn to KDF cruisers as well? What is so dangerous about the ship that it can't have a nice smooth turn? It cripples its role even as a healboat (people forget that you need to stay with your target to use ES).
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
How does this pertain to the actual PERFORMANCE or BALANCE of the ship? What your asking for, is a graphical effect, which would be applied to ALL ships.
it's useless do to the global cool down of powers what ever i put there does not matter as most of the time it's on a cool down from another power. it's a throw away slot
This just comes from some notebook of Cryptic's blueside good guy vs. redside badguy design theory.
Let's compare STO's ships to some of City of Heroes/Villains ATs (a Cryptic designed game):
Blueside Damage Dealers (Escort/Scrappers) have "enough" survivability for most things the game can throw at them and enough DPS to make most other ship classes cry.
Blueside Tanks (Cruiser/Tanker) have generally more survivability than they need, are conceptually "slow and powerful" but realistically end up being boring and limited in the game environment.
Redside Hybrid Tanks (Battlecruiser/Brutes) are capable of good to potentially high damage, have an overall "faster" playstyle than Cruiser/Tanks and generally lose very little practical survivability in comparison.
Redside Glass Cannon (BoP/Stalker) is generally outclassed in survivability compared to their blueside counterparts (Escort/Scrapper) and in return get a somewhat gimmicky "assassin" special ability (battlecloak).
On the whole 'redside' toys (consoles) will often be more powerful and nastier (except for Escorts/Scrappers) and borderline overpowered - (except for glass cannons) but they will get little to no love in the form of development.
It's borderline copy and paste.
Something to keep in mind, the best turning Fed Cruiser (Excelsior) only turns as good as the Negh'var.
Why do Fed cruisers have terrible turn rates and sad offense when KDF battlecruisers are clearly allowed to cross that line?
Your guess is as good as mine why they stick to the blue/red playbook like its the holy gospel.