That is correct I no longer use energy weapons. I used to use a single energy turret in the rear that has now been replaced by the 180" arc quantum torpdeo. I found in both PvE and PvP I kill faster without energy weapons. Every so often I go back to trying energy weapons but it never lasts. I spent last Friday & Saturday trying energy weapons gave up and when back to projectile.
EDIT: It should be stated I fly cruisers, I am not saying Escorts should abandon energy weapons.
Photon torpedo will do more hull damage through shield than transphasics. Why?
They have higher base damage, much faster refire rate -and- a much, MUCH higher damage multiplier in torpedo boff abilities.
Transphasics will never be viable until they have higher shield penetration. Sadly, if that happens, shields become irrelevant and everything fubars.
Transphasics need to have their special ability changed.
He is not incorrect. Photons do far less damage then Transphasics more so if you speed up Transphasics to fire as fast as Photons. I find Photons are the worst torpedoes to use as nearly always Transphasics or quantum both beat out Photons.
Upgrades your next torpedo attack.
Deals heavy damage against a single target. Fires 4 Torpedoes, each dealing 55.5% of normal damage, (total 222% of normal), for Chroniton, and Transphasic Torpedoes.
Fires 4 Torpedoes, each dealing 74.2% of normal damage, (total 296.8% of normal), for Photon Torpedoes.
Fires 4 Torpedoes, each dealing 73.7% of normal damage, (total 294.8% of normal), for Quantum Torpedoes.
Fires a Destructible Torpedo dealing 400% normal damage for Plasma Torpedoes.
Fires a Destructible Torpedo dealing 162.5% of normal damage and generating a disabling 1KM diameter rift for between 2.4 and 7.2 seconds for Ticobalt Torpedoes.
Also bear in mind that photons are just under a third more powerful than phasics in terms of base damage, meaning crits will scale at a lower rate (a phasic crit is about on par with the base damage of a regular photon).
Also bear in mind that photons are just under a third more powerful than phasics in terms of base damage, meaning crits will scale at a lower rate (a phasic crit is about on par with the base damage of a regular photon).
That?s interesting. My Quantum and Transphasic are about the same damage due to my setup. Here are my rushed results.
Transphasic base, 4690.1
Transphasic Spread III, 1976.6
Transphasic High Yield III, 2590.3
Quantum base, 4625.6
Quantum Spread III, 2521
Quantum High Yeild III, 3409
Did a capture and hold and there was a guy dealing a good amount of damage through shields with transphasic i noticed it and put a monotanium in my cruiser, i feel much better and the transphasic damage just no longer afected me.
While you're punching in numbers, I'll already spoil the results:
If you're shooting at paper-mache, PvE-trash or PvP-noobs, then yes, BO+Quantum works like a charm. Big numbers, and **BOOOOOM**
If you're shooting at something more durable though, like Tac Cubes, STF Bosses or skilled PvPers ... well, then they'll soak up your BO+Quantum combo, then laugh while your power levels are drained to nothing and their shields barely scratched.
BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts.
But some people like seeing huge numbers on insignificant targets, some day someone will be able to explain to me why that is. Probably.
Edit: NOOOOES! Too slow
Edit2: Just in case - 'not saying that going for transphasics is ideal - it's just a less bad idea than people think it is.
You're doing it wrong. Very sadly wrong. The only guy worse so far was Mr DPV guy. Granted BO3 in pve seems sorta lulz, but if you can't get the shields down on stf bosses in very short order there's some other issue. Or are you now going to say you didn't mean that? Sorta curious on that.
And if you in particular have some sort of set up where you can't get past a players shields in PVP well I guess that's YOUR problem. Stop saying everyone else shares your fail.
"laugh while your power levels are drained to zero"....Do you even play STO?
"BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts."
And what is this TRIBBLE? If you're going to make **** up, make up some good ****! Some people just like saying stuff. Someday someone will explain to me why that is.
And before you nerd rage into a frenzy. You're reasoning is flawed. You've simply created situations where your solution appears to be the only solution. If you'd like to propose an argument, go ahead. You haven't yet.
To toss in a few cents, recently I've been doing stfs with a transphasic torpedo armed boat, and when buffed, the cluster torpedo's damage is so insanely high that I can keep up with my team in terms of dps. If I pull aggro, I can expect to keep it for quite a while.
I think they may be more effective than they appear, but still less effective than the full cannon build.
You're doing it wrong. Very sadly wrong. The only guy worse so far was Mr DPV guy. Granted BO3 in pve seems sorta lulz, but if you can't get the shields down on stf bosses in very short order there's some other issue. Or are you now going to say you didn't mean that? Sorta curious on that.
And if you in particular have some sort of set up where you can't get past a players shields in PVP well I guess that's YOUR problem. Stop saying everyone else shares your fail.
"laugh while your power levels are drained to zero"....Do you even play STO?
"BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills. Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts."
And what is this TRIBBLE? If you're going to make **** up, make up some good ****! Some people just like saying stuff. Someday someone will explain to me why that is.
And before you nerd rage into a frenzy. You're reasoning is flawed. You've simply created situations where your solution appears to be the only solution. If you'd like to propose an argument, go ahead. You haven't yet.
Cheers and happy flying!
'Didn't say you can't get the shields down on STF bosses quickly. A good group can, just fine. The same group will burn through the hull even faster though, so that argument goes both ways.
That's a general problem with the PvE in this game, it's trivial for a good group and nearly impossible for a very bad one.
If you're running with some Sci-heavy ships specialzied for draining shield, then shields are a total non-issue, I'll give you that - that's one of the reasons I said that transphasics weren't optimal, just less bad than people make them out to be. And also why I usually pack Quantums instead.
For a more typical group (one lacking a drain-ship, as these are actually quite rare), shields are indeed an issue though, and you'll be shooting at shields long enough that transphasics can make up for most of the damage they lose once shields are down: One hit to shields plus one hit to hull deals pretty much the same damage no matter what kind of torps you're using.
So, assuming that shields are up for half the fight, transphasics come in equal to quantums.
As for PvP: seriously, any decent cruiser, carrier or science ship can tank a BO3 + HYT combo just fine. These ships rarely if ever die in a 1v1 situation, it takes focussed fire to bring them down.
Against Escorts, yeah, that one's all about burst ... and about avoiding any situation where you're vulnerable to such a burst.
If you can bring down a zombie cruiser with BO + HYT ... well, then I'm indeed doing something wrong, please share how you do it. Really. These things are driving me mad.
Beam Overload is a very situational skill. All about burst. You have to punch through shields with that ONE attack and follow it up with a killing blow from torps. That works very well for squishy targets.
On non-squishies though, that single BO won't take out the complete shields. All you did is drain your weapon power by 50 for a single big number, and you're actually losing dps unless you popped a battery, in which case you still lost a cooldown.
That's why BO actually IS not just "sorta lolz", but a total waste in PvE - any other ability in that slot gives you a bigger increase in dps and is actually sustainable, while BO just gives you one big number and burns through consumeables.
It's a situational PvP skill. A gamble for a big burst combo, a gamble you need a setup for that loses you sustained dps, both from sacrificing a BOff-ability slot and from having to carry a DBB or BA instead of another DHC. And of course you need to be in a position to pull it off in the first place, which usually means cloak, which also limits BO's usefulness.
'Doesn't mean it's totally useless, I never said that - but it's not optimal either, unless you plan to farm noobs or want to two-shot Probes/Mirandas in PvE.
Side note: yeah, seems I've been a bit ragy yesterday, sleep fixed that. And aside from the f'-up with the HYT modifiers (which really doesn't change much though), my points actually stand. I'll just have a harder time explaining them now ... D'Oh!
I for one would love to see a biff to transphasics! They are a cool little torpedo, but Voyager powerful? :P
Voyager wiped out cubes with a few torpedo's, but my power would be nice. It really has nothing to make up for its low damage. Chronitons at least have the snare and they still do more damage.
Maybe give transphasics a modifier...the pierce so much shields and if there is no shields when they hit the do bonus damage perhaps? Might make up for the lack of damage but not make them to powerful?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
By scraping that idea.
The Vo'quv is so sluggy that you can't even reliably broadside - how are you supposed to get anything in your torp arcs? Within 5 minutes, and without drifitng out of range half a dozen times, that is.
Also ... BoPs already carry all the torpedo goodness there is, once shields are down they finish off anything within seconds - shield stripping though is your job ..... WAAAAAAAAAIT ... you're joking, right?
'Can't do that on the internet, people could think you're serious! :P
(If you actually were serious: see answer above, and know that I'm trying for a triple facepalm just in case.)
Actually, one Aux2ID serves that purpose just fine, especially in conjunction with conn doffs and my innate APA1, as well as my triple RCS (planning on trying out an extra RCS once T5 starbases hit) accelerators, but I'm completely lost weapon-wise... not a clue as to what to use, or even HOW to use it. Current build is scraping together the best I can find from marks 10 to 12, with the following torpedoes (no torp buff consoles yet):
Fore: Plasma (STF 11? not sure) Quantum (STF 12, pretty sure it was that) Hargh'peng (purple 11)
Aft: Transphasic (STF 10-12) Quantum (presumably STF gear, but not sure) Hargh'peng (blue 11). No C-Store consoles, though at this rate I might get one (doing just beautifully on getting zen with the recent market crash)
Edit: Also, I don't have the epicly built B'rolths yet (quantum HY2 compared to photon HY1, sounds beautiful) and I don't plan to, not unless the fleet hangars turn out to be a gigantic disappointment.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
See people in various forums encouraging quantums over everything else lately.
Here's my Photon build, still say it tops Quantums:
Your Photon Torpedo deals 12754 (9250) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Sphere.
So what is everyone else hitting with?
It depends with your build if you are timing your torpedoes for when shields are down quantum?s would work better. But with your build and leaving torpedoes blind auto firing Photons are better over quantum?s. Although for blind firing I would argue Transphasic would beat out Photons.
With my current build i can one shot/bring most stuff to under 25% in PVE with a beam pass and a turn in to fire the photons onto the hull with HYII. Even the Spread over a large group hits the shields pretty hard.
There's alot of cookie cutter builds you can make, but with doff's, BO's, and the different ships, classes, and weapons it gives people a good choice and variety, and lets you play how you like to, thats one of the main things I enjoy. Looking at the Fleet Intrepid...Now thats a sweet little ship for some quantums on.
Tieberion, Captain of the USS Excalibur NX-97000-B
See people in various forums encouraging quantums over everything else lately.
Here's my Photon build, still say it tops Quantums:
Your Photon Torpedo deals 12754 (9250) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Sphere.
So what is everyone else hitting with?
Eh, 9k dmg with a photon isnt that great, with tac buffs i hit 28k crits after armor. With reg non buffed torps i can hit 8-12k consistantly. And i dont even run torpedo consoles....
Im assuming that the transphasic boat is running all torpedo consoles and still only managing 14k through shield, most people would hit engineering team and keep on strolling. You hit someone with a double backed HYT3 full tac buffed quatum chain shields or no they will feel it hard.
8 torpedos hitting for 12-28k back to back toss in a BO2 and their shields and hull are toast. Throw on some quantum consoles and youd really see some dmg. And to the person who said BO3 + HYT quantums is for trash.... what are you smoking... Ive seen BO3 1 shot people in pvp from full health, ive done it and had it done to me, time that with quantum burst and it screws a person hard and fast with no lube.
Is quantums the only build? duh no. There is no real best when it comes to a persons playstyle but are quantums better then transphasics yes. Transphasics need a boost to dmg or torpedo speed as they are slow with long cooldown and med dmg.
Plasma torp dots need to stack atm that reduces their effectiveness a good bit, what good is a bunch of plasma dots that dont stack and dont reset cooldown on dot. Tricobalts can be wickedly awesome but are extreamly situational.
Also just cause you time a HYT when shields are down doesnt mean that launcher has done no dmg up till then i leave mine on auto and just hit HYT when there is a great opening.
Yes, this is particularly handy if your build involves Tricobalts or Hargh'pengs. The former can get a DRASTIC boost if run alongside photons and a group of projectile doffs, the latter gets a neat kick out of ANY torpedo with projectile doffs.
Edit: For example, in the atypical scenario that all 3 trigger, you'll get at least 25% of your cooldown shaved off on a tricobalt. 2 triggering may also have that effect, and 1 trigger will cut out a neat amount too. *doesn't know the exact numbers, hence the massive lack of precision*
Possible off topic, but important to me so I ask this....I thought the BOFF abilities didn't do anything to the System Cooldown caused by the use of a Hargh'peng Torpedo. It would be amazing if it does work, but I had the projectile BoFF's in active duty and it had no effect. I would love to be wrong! As it stands if you fire one of them off you have to wait 15 seconds before using another one from a different tube. I have one fore and one aft because of this reason since I am broadsiding anyways and a small turn lets me fire either one that is ready.
IMHO H'P torpedoes trump all others for cruiser tanks(in PvE) . Moves the fastest of all of them, initial hit is an AE about as strong as a normal photon, then a DoT like a Plasma Torp (directly to hull), and then another AE at the end of the DoT duration. Also the Plasma DoT is stackable so you can have more than one person using it and the effects stack.
I can't remember the name of the person who uses only torpedoes by the time I got over to the reply.
Ok, we aren't even in the same galaxy with this. Torpedo only users are completely different from energy weapon users. You can pump all you power into the torpedoes, while the rest of us push the power into energy weapons. So transphasics may be powerful for you, but that's because you are probably using as many consoles for it as possible. And I don't understand how you can be not good with energy weapons, did you not put consoles for the energy type when you tried it out? Feel free to PM or send me mail in game at any time, I'd like to exmine your build more. I've never met anyone else who only uses torpedoes, this should be very interesting.
Possible off topic, but important to me so I ask this....I thought the BOFF abilities didn't do anything to the System Cooldown caused by the use of a Hargh'peng Torpedo. It would be amazing if it does work, but I had the projectile BoFF's in active duty and it had no effect. I would love to be wrong! As it stands if you fire one of them off you have to wait 15 seconds before using another one from a different tube. I have one fore and one aft because of this reason since I am broadsiding anyways and a small turn lets me fire either one that is ready.
IMHO H'P torpedoes trump all others for cruiser tanks(in PvE) . Moves the fastest of all of them, initial hit is an AE about as strong as a normal photon, then a DoT like a Plasma Torp (directly to hull), and then another AE at the end of the DoT duration. Also the Plasma DoT is stackable so you can have more than one person using it and the effects stack.
I'm fairly certain they're affected. I'd have to run a more detailed investigation of the issue though, as my memory is a bit spotty and I don't really monitor my firing delays, but... I think they are. Still, they'd suck in a build with all Hargh'pengs, just like in a build with all tricobalts, due to the fact that you'd have a lot less proc chances, and by extension a lot less procs to benefit from. I suggest combining slow-firing torpedoes with rapid-firing ones. I suspect one good example would be combining the slow transphasic torpedo with the more rapid photon.
I can't remember the name of the person who uses only torpedoes by the time I got over to the reply.
Ok, we aren't even in the same galaxy with this. Torpedo only users are completely different from energy weapon users. You can pump all you power into the torpedoes, while the rest of us push the power into energy weapons. So transphasics may be powerful for you, but that's because you are probably using as many consoles for it as possible. And I don't understand how you can be not good with energy weapons, did you not put consoles for the energy type when you tried it out? Feel free to PM or send me mail in game at any time, I'd like to exmine your build more. I've never met anyone else who only uses torpedoes, this should be very interesting.
Were you referring to me, or did somebody else also bring up a torp-only ship?
Also, I never said my transphasics were powerful. In fact, my build can hardly even be called competent, as I'm running practically on salvaged gear from lower levels and killed ships. Besides, I only have one transphasic rear, using a plasma in its place for my forward arc.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Im assuming that the transphasic boat is running all torpedo consoles and still only managing 14k through shield, most people would hit engineering team and keep on strolling. You hit someone with a double backed HYT3 full tac buffed quatum chain shields or no they will feel it hard..
Engineering team has a cooldown. Sure you might heal the first volley but the damage does not stop while waiting for Engineering team to cycle again. What about the 2nd, though 15th volley while Eng team is on cooldown? I do over 2k to hull per shot, not per volly. I am not saying it cannot be healed but its not as easy as you make out.
8 torpedos hitting for 12-28k back to back toss in a BO2 and their shields and hull are toast. Throw on some quantum consoles and youd really see some dmg. And to the person who said BO3 + HYT quantums is for trash.... what are you smoking... Ive seen BO3 1 shot people in pvp from full health, ive done it and had it done to me, time that with quantum burst and it screws a person hard and fast with no lube.
Almost every single time I have tried that or someone tried it on me it has failed. All you have to do is hit tac team or balance shields and the HTY fails. Anyway BO rarely takes down shields unless it's a crit and sometimes not even then. I have seen it work against some of the smaller ships but not in a reliably constant manner.
I can't remember the name of the person who uses only torpedoes by the time I got over to the reply.
Ok, we aren't even in the same galaxy with this. Torpedo only users are completely different from energy weapon users. You can pump all you power into the torpedoes, while the rest of us push the power into energy weapons. So transphasics may be powerful for you, but that's because you are probably using as many consoles for it as possible. And I don't understand how you can be not good with energy weapons, did you not put consoles for the energy type when you tried it out? Feel free to PM or send me mail in game at any time, I'd like to exmine your build more. I've never met anyone else who only uses torpedoes, this should be very interesting.
I too do not understand how I cannot be good with energy weapons. I used purple mk XI, x3 28% damage consoles, 125 weapon power and have such lower DPS I can barely take someone's shields down no matter what combo of weapon of BO skill I used. What's your @name so I can PM in you game?
Engineering team has a cooldown. Sure you might heal the first volley but the damage does not stop while waiting for Engineering team to cycle again. What about the 2nd, though 15th volley while Eng team is on cooldown? I do over 2k to hull per shot, not per volly. I am not saying it cannot be healed but its not as easy as you make out.
Depending on who you are facing and what ship, engineering team is not the only hull heal out there.
Almost every single time I have tried that or someone tried it on me it has failed. All you have to do is hit tac team or balance shields and the HTY fails. Anyway BO rarely takes down shields unless it's a crit and sometimes not even then. I have seen it work against some of the smaller ships but not in a reliably constant manner.
Firing off BO2 or 3 and the HY3 quantum combo works very well, if A) You bring down the opponent's shields in the BO attack (Not hard for that to happen unless its a science ship, even then it can happen) and You don't keep firing like an idiot so tactical team can revive the loss of the shield quadrant. Not really hard to get around Tactical team if you're somewhat intelligent about what you're doing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
dalolorn, I was actually talking to pottsey (I just looked at his name and forgot most of it again ).
pottsey, what ship are you running? Something is definitely not right if you can't get dps out of weapons like that with consoles that good (speaking of which, what weapons did you try? If it's turrets then there's your problem).
2k per hit sounds good but a eng team 3 can heal a whole volley worth, and cruiser will carry 2 eng or eng + asif + HE1-2. Now if you can smash their crew more power to ya you will wear em down but a single console or aux to damp can negate crewloss and a cruiser will maintain a very high hull regen per min.
Sure you can trigger all my heal cooldowns but thats no diff then me getting alphad hard by anyone else except that most of your torpedo dmg is being negated by the shield even with the shield pen bonus.
Against escorts or sci with weaker hull heals i could see it being somewhat effective except that they will kill you fast and smart ones will avoide your torpedo arcs. People can make any build work but as to how well it works all the time is quite different.
Quantums are reliable dmg, so are photons. Transphasic do reliable dmg with shields up, on hull they are weak. And if your using BO i highly suggest a dual beam bank with x3 crit dmg mods. When it crits itll do major dmg, and even when it doesnt your doing pure energy dmg at for BO3 is about 12-14k directly to shield.
80% of most torpedo dmg is lost on shield impact, none is lost from energy based weapons. Thats what makes the combo so effective, even with 50% shield pen most ships can out run or out heal your dmg, if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya. Quantums are much harder to outrun.
If anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that transphasic base dmg needs upped. That results in more dmg through shields and when they are down.
Also as an escort using cannons, beambanks, and torpedos you can use 3 offensive abilities at once + buffs. Tac buffs + Bo3, + HYT3, Beta 1, and CRF vs your transphasic torpedo volley isnt even a contest in potential dmg. Also if you manage your build right and gear you can reduce the effect of weapon energy drain to almost nothing.
And fully buffed my DHC crit for 8k or more basicly a torpedo hit but fire faster and do 100% dmg to shields.
dalolorn, I was actually talking to pottsey (I just looked at his name and forgot most of it again ).
pottsey, what ship are you running? Something is definitely not right if you can't get dps out of weapons like that with consoles that good (speaking of which, what weapons did you try? If it's turrets then there's your problem).
I tried all sorts, dual banks, beam arrays, cannons both 180" and 45" ach and still have most in my bank. Just never found a setup that worked for me. The best was beam banks fire at will with torpedo spread. 1 or 2 torpedoes with 2 or 3 beam banks and 2 turrets, 2 mines to keep energy drain low. Worked for PvE failed in PvP
Scatter Volley with x4 180? arc cannons or x3 and x1 180? torpedo with x2 turrets worked well for PvE but failed at PvP. (I like to always keep 2 mines in rear slots)
What do you want to do about meeting in game? I need you @name don?t I?
Ship right now is the Sov+ also used the Tac Oddy and Dkora.
2k per hit sounds good but a eng team 3 can heal a whole volley worth, and cruiser will carry 2 eng or eng + asif + HE1-2. Now if you can smash their crew more power to ya you will wear em down but a single console or aux to damp can negate crewloss and a cruiser will maintain a very high hull regen per min.
Sure you can trigger all my heal cooldowns but thats no diff then me getting alphad hard by anyone else except that most of your torpedo dmg is being negated by the shield even with the shield pen bonus.
Against escorts or sci with weaker hull heals i could see it being somewhat effective except that they will kill you fast and smart ones will avoide your torpedo arcs. People can make any build work but as to how well it works all the time is quite different.
Quantums are reliable dmg, so are photons. Transphasic do reliable dmg with shields up, on hull they are weak. And if your using BO i highly suggest a dual beam bank with x3 crit dmg mods. When it crits itll do major dmg, and even when it doesnt your doing pure energy dmg at for BO3 is about 12-14k directly to shield.
80% of most torpedo dmg is lost on shield impact, none is lost from energy based weapons. Thats what makes the combo so effective, even with 50% shield pen most ships can out run or out heal your dmg, if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya. Quantums are much harder to outrun.
If anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that transphasic base dmg needs upped. That results in more dmg through shields and when they are down.
Also as an escort using cannons, beambanks, and torpedos you can use 3 offensive abilities at once + buffs. Tac buffs + Bo3, + HYT3, Beta 1, and CRF vs your transphasic torpedo volley isnt even a contest in potential dmg. Also if you manage your build right and gear you can reduce the effect of weapon energy drain to almost nothing.
And fully buffed my DHC crit for 8k or more basicly a torpedo hit but fire faster and do 100% dmg to shields.
No Escort has ever killed me fast 1v1 not even the top end Elite DPS ones. You have to remember I do not need weapon energy so I can dump all that energy into shields and Engines. That means a nice turn rate for a cruiser and high defence from engine power as well as nice speed. Add in 125 shield power which gives 35% resistance before BO skills and I can tank very well. I am not some a slow turn rate slow speed cruiser which is how I catch out most Escorts. Most ships are not going out run me easily.
Avoiding my torpedo arc is not that easy as I have no power in weapon energy so dump it all into engines/shields. I got pretty good at keeping even Escorts in my ach plus it?s deadly to be anywhere within 5k of me even outside of my ach. Killed many an Escort that thought it was a good idea to sit point-blank in my rear and unload dps at me. The only targets I have problems with are healer cruisers but they cannot kill me either so it?s a boring match. I run 125 shield and 113 engine power. Defence of 70% and turn rate of around I think it was 20 ish? with Dampeners, still over 12 without Dampeners. On top of all that I am still doing 500 to 600 damage to shields per shot or more if I us shield draining mines. EDIT: One fun time someone subspace jumped behind me and before I even spun the camera around they died due to 80% shield pen hits. EDIT end:
?if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya?
Your welcome to try and you might be surprised at just how agile I am. Want to meet up for a 1v1? One of my favourite tactics is to use full impulse come out point blank and unload torpedo spread twice at once and drop 20+mines. No way to outrun that. Full impulse has no impact on my damage so no need to come out at a distance and charge up energy. I am pretty sure after you meet me you will not say ?anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that Transphasic base dmg needs upped? if you buff Transphasic any more they will be overpowered on torpdeo boats. Once I upgrade to fleet weapons and a Fleet Crusier I will be doing 3k hull damage per shot! Do we really need to buff that more? I can already get 3k per shot in an Orb Sci but I perfer crusiers. EDIT: its also worth saying those 2.2k and 3k shots are none crit shots on hull with shields up. As I am a torpedo boat I have projectile specialisation maxed out.
dalolorn, I was actually talking to pottsey (I just looked at his name and forgot most of it again ).
pottsey, what ship are you running? Something is definitely not right if you can't get dps out of weapons like that with consoles that good (speaking of which, what weapons did you try? If it's turrets then there's your problem).
Yes, I wasn't certain. Sorry.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
You're doing it wrong. Very sadly wrong. The only guy worse so far was Mr DPV guy. Granted BO3 in pve seems sorta lulz, but if you can't get the shields down on stf bosses in very short order there's some other issue. Or are you now going to say you didn't mean that? Sorta curious on that.
And if you in particular have some sort of set up where you can't get past a players shields in PVP well I guess that's YOUR problem. Stop saying everyone else shares your fail.
"laugh while your power levels are drained to zero"....Do you even play STO?
"BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts."
And what is this TRIBBLE? If you're going to make **** up, make up some good ****! Some people just like saying stuff. Someday someone will explain to me why that is.
And before you nerd rage into a frenzy. You're reasoning is flawed. You've simply created situations where your solution appears to be the only solution. If you'd like to propose an argument, go ahead. You haven't yet.
Cheers and happy flying!
Aww.. come on This! I was sitting back quirking an eyebrow some at the math that was being done. A bunch of us old timers sat down and did a huge comparison on all the torpedoes...
damage ratio's
vs type of ship
vs the assortment of torps that works best together
vs build spec
vs equipment/consoles
vs which BO power affects which torpedo first in the firing heirarchy
vs Rate of Fire (with and without doff)
Yeah we hashed this out a while back team. Boils down to a simple thing.
If it works for you, run with it.
There is no "master" transphasic build, and sorry transphasic torps while do a good amount of damage through a hull are easily countered with 3 different consoles, and 2 BO powers, if you simply do some research and read the info on those powers.
However, they have Definitely been improved and now are on par at least as a good torpedo to have now.
and if you are wondering, I take my torpedo boat out on ELITE STF's and I will draw aggro quickly from the PVE bosses.
I've actually used twin Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo Launchers (Breen series loot). It doesn't have the spike damage of a good quantum volley, but it's steady and consistent hull damage and with the right DOffs you can keep on firing with almost no pause!
Check it out sometime.
I found that to get the most out of twin rapid fire launchers... put them in the front. Their cooldown is too fast to effectively use on a cruiser in a front/back configuration.
(Though mind you, I prefer quantums for PvE since computer opponents aren't nearly as good at keeping their shields up.)
There is no "master" transphasic build, and sorry transphasic torps while do a good amount of damage through a hull are easily countered with 3 different consoles, and 2 BO powers, if you simply do some research and read the info on those powers.
I think it will take a lot more then that to counter a master transphasic build. Perhaps with 4 healing skills.
I think it will take a lot more then that to counter a master transphasic build. Perhaps with 4 healing skills.
I have many who tested it out on some of my tank cruiser builds, they are surprised what little damage they do. I have also tested my own transphasic build and found it depended a good amount on how the target ship is set. Now, VS PVE targets its fairly straightforward, in PVP just depends on the skill of the target and how they have their ships set.
I discuss with my fellow fleet testers,the pro's and cons of fighting such a build. now, keep in mind this is only how I build a super tank (cruiser), which is not for everyone's taste. I have found that transphasic damage can easily be countered by *items removed so as not to give away information in respect to those that have worked hard on their transphasic builds. The leak through damage is easily balanced out without adding any extra healing to the mix for that build. Now the same build does not work on my sci character, simply because of factors oh their class, accolades missing, ship being used, etc.
yet again too, this is from my main, and engineer that has just about ever accolade and has been active since day 1 of live back in feb 2010. He is specifically built to take that kind of damage. As such, his DPS sucks. Just that simple, to be that tanky, you have to give up on something, so the DPS suffers.
And to give credit too, where it is due, I have seen a few transphasic builds that if you are not ready for it in pvp, the target gets the surprise of a lifetime. I have witness a few hit hulls with 6k-10k crits through shields. THAT is nothing to sneeze at folks, and as I said I have witness this first hand from some good builds.
It would not surprise me if a full healer setup could tank a Transphasic setup but that is not because a Transphasic setup is weak that?s because a full healer build can tank pretty much anything 1v1. Not sure why you keep removing information it?s not like anything you posted it super-secret. Assuming you mean those Kinetic resistance consoles it’s not like they make much of a difference against a full Transphasic build.
Could we meet for a 1v1 so I can see your build in action?
Comments
EDIT: It should be stated I fly cruisers, I am not saying Escorts should abandon energy weapons.
He is not incorrect. Photons do far less damage then Transphasics more so if you speed up Transphasics to fire as fast as Photons. I find Photons are the worst torpedoes to use as nearly always Transphasics or quantum both beat out Photons.
Nope:
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Torpedo:_High_Yield
Also bear in mind that photons are just under a third more powerful than phasics in terms of base damage, meaning crits will scale at a lower rate (a phasic crit is about on par with the base damage of a regular photon).
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
That?s interesting. My Quantum and Transphasic are about the same damage due to my setup. Here are my rushed results.
Transphasic base, 4690.1
Transphasic Spread III, 1976.6
Transphasic High Yield III, 2590.3
Quantum base, 4625.6
Quantum Spread III, 2521
Quantum High Yeild III, 3409
You're doing it wrong. Very sadly wrong. The only guy worse so far was Mr DPV guy. Granted BO3 in pve seems sorta lulz, but if you can't get the shields down on stf bosses in very short order there's some other issue. Or are you now going to say you didn't mean that? Sorta curious on that.
And if you in particular have some sort of set up where you can't get past a players shields in PVP well I guess that's YOUR problem. Stop saying everyone else shares your fail.
"laugh while your power levels are drained to zero"....Do you even play STO?
"BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts."
And what is this TRIBBLE? If you're going to make **** up, make up some good ****! Some people just like saying stuff. Someday someone will explain to me why that is.
And before you nerd rage into a frenzy. You're reasoning is flawed. You've simply created situations where your solution appears to be the only solution. If you'd like to propose an argument, go ahead. You haven't yet.
Cheers and happy flying!
I think they may be more effective than they appear, but still less effective than the full cannon build.
'Didn't say you can't get the shields down on STF bosses quickly. A good group can, just fine. The same group will burn through the hull even faster though, so that argument goes both ways.
That's a general problem with the PvE in this game, it's trivial for a good group and nearly impossible for a very bad one.
If you're running with some Sci-heavy ships specialzied for draining shield, then shields are a total non-issue, I'll give you that - that's one of the reasons I said that transphasics weren't optimal, just less bad than people make them out to be. And also why I usually pack Quantums instead.
For a more typical group (one lacking a drain-ship, as these are actually quite rare), shields are indeed an issue though, and you'll be shooting at shields long enough that transphasics can make up for most of the damage they lose once shields are down: One hit to shields plus one hit to hull deals pretty much the same damage no matter what kind of torps you're using.
So, assuming that shields are up for half the fight, transphasics come in equal to quantums.
As for PvP: seriously, any decent cruiser, carrier or science ship can tank a BO3 + HYT combo just fine. These ships rarely if ever die in a 1v1 situation, it takes focussed fire to bring them down.
Against Escorts, yeah, that one's all about burst ... and about avoiding any situation where you're vulnerable to such a burst.
If you can bring down a zombie cruiser with BO + HYT ... well, then I'm indeed doing something wrong, please share how you do it. Really. These things are driving me mad.
Beam Overload is a very situational skill. All about burst. You have to punch through shields with that ONE attack and follow it up with a killing blow from torps. That works very well for squishy targets.
On non-squishies though, that single BO won't take out the complete shields. All you did is drain your weapon power by 50 for a single big number, and you're actually losing dps unless you popped a battery, in which case you still lost a cooldown.
That's why BO actually IS not just "sorta lolz", but a total waste in PvE - any other ability in that slot gives you a bigger increase in dps and is actually sustainable, while BO just gives you one big number and burns through consumeables.
It's a situational PvP skill. A gamble for a big burst combo, a gamble you need a setup for that loses you sustained dps, both from sacrificing a BOff-ability slot and from having to carry a DBB or BA instead of another DHC. And of course you need to be in a position to pull it off in the first place, which usually means cloak, which also limits BO's usefulness.
'Doesn't mean it's totally useless, I never said that - but it's not optimal either, unless you plan to farm noobs or want to two-shot Probes/Mirandas in PvE.
Side note: yeah, seems I've been a bit ragy yesterday, sleep fixed that. And aside from the f'-up with the HYT modifiers (which really doesn't change much though), my points actually stand. I'll just have a harder time explaining them now ... D'Oh!
Voyager wiped out cubes with a few torpedo's, but my power would be nice. It really has nothing to make up for its low damage. Chronitons at least have the snare and they still do more damage.
Maybe give transphasics a modifier...the pierce so much shields and if there is no shields when they hit the do bonus damage perhaps? Might make up for the lack of damage but not make them to powerful?
Actually, one Aux2ID serves that purpose just fine, especially in conjunction with conn doffs and my innate APA1, as well as my triple RCS (planning on trying out an extra RCS once T5 starbases hit) accelerators, but I'm completely lost weapon-wise... not a clue as to what to use, or even HOW to use it. Current build is scraping together the best I can find from marks 10 to 12, with the following torpedoes (no torp buff consoles yet):
Fore: Plasma (STF 11? not sure) Quantum (STF 12, pretty sure it was that) Hargh'peng (purple 11)
Aft: Transphasic (STF 10-12) Quantum (presumably STF gear, but not sure) Hargh'peng (blue 11). No C-Store consoles, though at this rate I might get one (doing just beautifully on getting zen with the recent market crash)
Edit: Also, I don't have the epicly built B'rolths yet (quantum HY2 compared to photon HY1, sounds beautiful) and I don't plan to, not unless the fleet hangars turn out to be a gigantic disappointment.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Here's my Photon build, still say it tops Quantums:
Your Photon Torpedo deals 12754 (9250) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Sphere.
So what is everyone else hitting with?
There's alot of cookie cutter builds you can make, but with doff's, BO's, and the different ships, classes, and weapons it gives people a good choice and variety, and lets you play how you like to, thats one of the main things I enjoy. Looking at the Fleet Intrepid...Now thats a sweet little ship for some quantums on.
Eh, 9k dmg with a photon isnt that great, with tac buffs i hit 28k crits after armor. With reg non buffed torps i can hit 8-12k consistantly. And i dont even run torpedo consoles....
Im assuming that the transphasic boat is running all torpedo consoles and still only managing 14k through shield, most people would hit engineering team and keep on strolling. You hit someone with a double backed HYT3 full tac buffed quatum chain shields or no they will feel it hard.
8 torpedos hitting for 12-28k back to back toss in a BO2 and their shields and hull are toast. Throw on some quantum consoles and youd really see some dmg. And to the person who said BO3 + HYT quantums is for trash.... what are you smoking... Ive seen BO3 1 shot people in pvp from full health, ive done it and had it done to me, time that with quantum burst and it screws a person hard and fast with no lube.
Is quantums the only build? duh no. There is no real best when it comes to a persons playstyle but are quantums better then transphasics yes. Transphasics need a boost to dmg or torpedo speed as they are slow with long cooldown and med dmg.
Plasma torp dots need to stack atm that reduces their effectiveness a good bit, what good is a bunch of plasma dots that dont stack and dont reset cooldown on dot. Tricobalts can be wickedly awesome but are extreamly situational.
Also just cause you time a HYT when shields are down doesnt mean that launcher has done no dmg up till then i leave mine on auto and just hit HYT when there is a great opening.
Possible off topic, but important to me so I ask this....I thought the BOFF abilities didn't do anything to the System Cooldown caused by the use of a Hargh'peng Torpedo. It would be amazing if it does work, but I had the projectile BoFF's in active duty and it had no effect. I would love to be wrong! As it stands if you fire one of them off you have to wait 15 seconds before using another one from a different tube. I have one fore and one aft because of this reason since I am broadsiding anyways and a small turn lets me fire either one that is ready.
IMHO H'P torpedoes trump all others for cruiser tanks(in PvE) . Moves the fastest of all of them, initial hit is an AE about as strong as a normal photon, then a DoT like a Plasma Torp (directly to hull), and then another AE at the end of the DoT duration. Also the Plasma DoT is stackable so you can have more than one person using it and the effects stack.
Ok, we aren't even in the same galaxy with this. Torpedo only users are completely different from energy weapon users. You can pump all you power into the torpedoes, while the rest of us push the power into energy weapons. So transphasics may be powerful for you, but that's because you are probably using as many consoles for it as possible. And I don't understand how you can be not good with energy weapons, did you not put consoles for the energy type when you tried it out? Feel free to PM or send me mail in game at any time, I'd like to exmine your build more. I've never met anyone else who only uses torpedoes, this should be very interesting.
I'm fairly certain they're affected. I'd have to run a more detailed investigation of the issue though, as my memory is a bit spotty and I don't really monitor my firing delays, but... I think they are. Still, they'd suck in a build with all Hargh'pengs, just like in a build with all tricobalts, due to the fact that you'd have a lot less proc chances, and by extension a lot less procs to benefit from. I suggest combining slow-firing torpedoes with rapid-firing ones. I suspect one good example would be combining the slow transphasic torpedo with the more rapid photon.
Were you referring to me, or did somebody else also bring up a torp-only ship?
Also, I never said my transphasics were powerful. In fact, my build can hardly even be called competent, as I'm running practically on salvaged gear from lower levels and killed ships. Besides, I only have one transphasic rear, using a plasma in its place for my forward arc.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Almost every single time I have tried that or someone tried it on me it has failed. All you have to do is hit tac team or balance shields and the HTY fails. Anyway BO rarely takes down shields unless it's a crit and sometimes not even then. I have seen it work against some of the smaller ships but not in a reliably constant manner.
I too do not understand how I cannot be good with energy weapons. I used purple mk XI, x3 28% damage consoles, 125 weapon power and have such lower DPS I can barely take someone's shields down no matter what combo of weapon of BO skill I used. What's your @name so I can PM in you game?
Depending on who you are facing and what ship, engineering team is not the only hull heal out there.
Firing off BO2 or 3 and the HY3 quantum combo works very well, if A) You bring down the opponent's shields in the BO attack (Not hard for that to happen unless its a science ship, even then it can happen) and
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
pottsey, what ship are you running? Something is definitely not right if you can't get dps out of weapons like that with consoles that good (speaking of which, what weapons did you try? If it's turrets then there's your problem).
Sure you can trigger all my heal cooldowns but thats no diff then me getting alphad hard by anyone else except that most of your torpedo dmg is being negated by the shield even with the shield pen bonus.
Against escorts or sci with weaker hull heals i could see it being somewhat effective except that they will kill you fast and smart ones will avoide your torpedo arcs. People can make any build work but as to how well it works all the time is quite different.
Quantums are reliable dmg, so are photons. Transphasic do reliable dmg with shields up, on hull they are weak. And if your using BO i highly suggest a dual beam bank with x3 crit dmg mods. When it crits itll do major dmg, and even when it doesnt your doing pure energy dmg at for BO3 is about 12-14k directly to shield.
80% of most torpedo dmg is lost on shield impact, none is lost from energy based weapons. Thats what makes the combo so effective, even with 50% shield pen most ships can out run or out heal your dmg, if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya. Quantums are much harder to outrun.
If anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that transphasic base dmg needs upped. That results in more dmg through shields and when they are down.
Also as an escort using cannons, beambanks, and torpedos you can use 3 offensive abilities at once + buffs. Tac buffs + Bo3, + HYT3, Beta 1, and CRF vs your transphasic torpedo volley isnt even a contest in potential dmg. Also if you manage your build right and gear you can reduce the effect of weapon energy drain to almost nothing.
And fully buffed my DHC crit for 8k or more basicly a torpedo hit but fire faster and do 100% dmg to shields.
Scatter Volley with x4 180? arc cannons or x3 and x1 180? torpedo with x2 turrets worked well for PvE but failed at PvP. (I like to always keep 2 mines in rear slots)
What do you want to do about meeting in game? I need you @name don?t I?
Ship right now is the Sov+ also used the Tac Oddy and Dkora.
Avoiding my torpedo arc is not that easy as I have no power in weapon energy so dump it all into engines/shields. I got pretty good at keeping even Escorts in my ach plus it?s deadly to be anywhere within 5k of me even outside of my ach. Killed many an Escort that thought it was a good idea to sit point-blank in my rear and unload dps at me. The only targets I have problems with are healer cruisers but they cannot kill me either so it?s a boring match. I run 125 shield and 113 engine power. Defence of 70% and turn rate of around I think it was 20 ish? with Dampeners, still over 12 without Dampeners. On top of all that I am still doing 500 to 600 damage to shields per shot or more if I us shield draining mines. EDIT: One fun time someone subspace jumped behind me and before I even spun the camera around they died due to 80% shield pen hits. EDIT end:
?if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya?
Your welcome to try and you might be surprised at just how agile I am. Want to meet up for a 1v1? One of my favourite tactics is to use full impulse come out point blank and unload torpedo spread twice at once and drop 20+mines. No way to outrun that. Full impulse has no impact on my damage so no need to come out at a distance and charge up energy. I am pretty sure after you meet me you will not say ?anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that Transphasic base dmg needs upped? if you buff Transphasic any more they will be overpowered on torpdeo boats. Once I upgrade to fleet weapons and a Fleet Crusier I will be doing 3k hull damage per shot! Do we really need to buff that more? I can already get 3k per shot in an Orb Sci but I perfer crusiers. EDIT: its also worth saying those 2.2k and 3k shots are none crit shots on hull with shields up. As I am a torpedo boat I have projectile specialisation maxed out.
Yes, I wasn't certain. Sorry.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Aww.. come on This! I was sitting back quirking an eyebrow some at the math that was being done. A bunch of us old timers sat down and did a huge comparison on all the torpedoes...
Yeah we hashed this out a while back team. Boils down to a simple thing.
If it works for you, run with it.
There is no "master" transphasic build, and sorry transphasic torps while do a good amount of damage through a hull are easily countered with 3 different consoles, and 2 BO powers, if you simply do some research and read the info on those powers.
However, they have Definitely been improved and now are on par at least as a good torpedo to have now.
and if you are wondering, I take my torpedo boat out on ELITE STF's and I will draw aggro quickly from the PVE bosses.
Prometheus Class Escort
Front: RF Transphasic, Photon Torpedo, RF Transphasic, TriCobolt Torp (Manual fire only)
Rear: Photon Torpedo, Transphasic Cluster Mine Launcher, Harpeng torpedo
*BO Powers and ship build withheld
You all are on the right track however, just think it through and do not worry so much over damage number v
Check it out sometime.
I found that to get the most out of twin rapid fire launchers... put them in the front. Their cooldown is too fast to effectively use on a cruiser in a front/back configuration.
(Though mind you, I prefer quantums for PvE since computer opponents aren't nearly as good at keeping their shields up.)
I have many who tested it out on some of my tank cruiser builds, they are surprised what little damage they do. I have also tested my own transphasic build and found it depended a good amount on how the target ship is set. Now, VS PVE targets its fairly straightforward, in PVP just depends on the skill of the target and how they have their ships set.
I discuss with my fellow fleet testers,the pro's and cons of fighting such a build. now, keep in mind this is only how I build a super tank (cruiser), which is not for everyone's taste. I have found that transphasic damage can easily be countered by *items removed so as not to give away information in respect to those that have worked hard on their transphasic builds. The leak through damage is easily balanced out without adding any extra healing to the mix for that build. Now the same build does not work on my sci character, simply because of factors oh their class, accolades missing, ship being used, etc.
yet again too, this is from my main, and engineer that has just about ever accolade and has been active since day 1 of live back in feb 2010. He is specifically built to take that kind of damage. As such, his DPS sucks. Just that simple, to be that tanky, you have to give up on something, so the DPS suffers.
And to give credit too, where it is due, I have seen a few transphasic builds that if you are not ready for it in pvp, the target gets the surprise of a lifetime. I have witness a few hit hulls with 6k-10k crits through shields. THAT is nothing to sneeze at folks, and as I said I have witness this first hand from some good builds.
Could we meet for a 1v1 so I can see your build in action?