Color me curious... Does anyone have a solid proposal for awarding Fleet Marks (or anything tangible, really) for PvP matches under the existing system (meaning, no new features or tech) that wouldn't be quickly and easily exploitable?
Let's say we stick it in as a PvP Daily, for the sake of argument... Would we not see an influx of AFK'ers and Kill Feeders that would diminish the overall experience of PvP, while quickly working their way to this new Daily reward?
There are two obvious solutions to this:
1) Allow it, and set the rewards very, very low to compensate.
-or-
2) Set the mission condition to "Win A Public Match" (since both losing and private matches can be exploited for mission completion, otherwise).
Thanks for posting Borticus!
I'd go for solution #2 personally.
1 - AFKing in a match will be a very inefficient way of grinding fleet marks, since you're making it less likely your team will win. Solution #1 on the otherhand would have the opposite effect, as people will just AFK as they go and do something else (I swear some even have macros set up to queue for matches, I know one rather prolific AFKer was still in a match 30 mins after everyone else decided to leave the match because of him(I found this out by checking the social tab)).
2 - It'll give people a reason to PvP and as such give it a much needed shot in the arm.
3 - It'll also give people a real reason to TRY to win. I'm not saying people don't try at the moment, but an actually reason to win may give them a reason to up their game and improve. Just like No Win Senario and STFs helped people improve their builds.
Sure as a pugger I'll lose a fair share of fights, but I'll also win a good few as well.
Solution #1 renders the mission nearly pointless. We may as well give away free Fleet Marks, which more of our players would be able to enjoy without diminishing the PvP experience for those that are actually attempting to play matches.
Solution #2 locks out the rewards to all but an elite portion of a small community of our overall playerbase. Let's face it - you guys aren't just good at PvP, you take it to a level that most of our players are unlikely to be able to even comprehend, much less defeat in a match. And even for the really elite PvPers, you'll on average have a 50% win rate when matched up against other elites, meaning that half the time you run the mission you get nothing.
While premades trolling the queues is unpleasant to say the least, it's also doesn't dominate it. A majority of the matches will involve pugs of all skills, which gives everyone a chance, not just those of us with years of experience. Also the elite PvPers are really in a minority as far as PvP is concerned. You probably only bump into one every match, unless they're teamed up with their pals.
From my personal experience of the queues a pug is usually made up of one very experienced PvPer, two good PvPers and one new guy, maybe two. So it sort of balances it out, as long as no one formed a premade for the queues.
Also you'll be getting a greater influx of new PvP puggers, which will mean there's a greater chance they'll go up against people of equal skill.
All in all it'll give even those who don't know what a tact team is a chance.
If I'm overlooking another obvious solution, I'd love to hear your theories on it. Finding a way to reward PvP is a big step towards getting more players to participate in it. It's important. But under our existing system, our options are very limited.
I can appreciate the issue, none of use what the rewards to be added if it means every public que is full of afk players or dudes running around with out shields on.
I think a SMALL reward could work... I don't need massive rewards for pvp... and private matches, understandable even though the best matches we have are private should NOT be rewarded. We will still do the privates cause that is still the best game play right.
I would say bring back ONE of the pvp badges.... just like STFS reward 2 chips for completing one... you could simply reward 2 pvp badges for ever match win or loose. These badges COULD be used to purchase dilithium boxes... like the stf ones can perhaps at a higher cost... something like 20 chips for the same you get from 10 stf chips... you could also use this model to reward what you feel is a reasonable amount of fleet marks... not so much that afking is productive.. however enough that fleets could choose to pvp for 3-4 hours like we used to instead of 2 hours of pve and 2 hours of pew, like we have sort of been forced to do now. I still don't mind doing the odd PvE map here and there with my friends... it would be nice if we only HAD to do that PvE Map to complete something or if we honestly felt like it.
I don't know it its possible to revive that tech or not (The PvP badges) The pvp consoles are still there on ganalda and K7.... it would be just adding that menu back in. Throwing in some rewards....
In a future update perhaps the same badges... COULD be a method to intro STF gear for PvP... again price it so AFKers are not getting there STF gear... price it so a month of PvP can provide a tangible reward. Perhaps at some point even offer cross faction gear sets this way.... something like 200 pvp badges for a Maco Or KHG piece for the opposite faction. (Yes I understand this could be a draw for STF people... but hey perhaps you at the same time add a Ferengi STF badge vendor on DS9 that would sell you the other factions gear for Ferengi like prices as well).
Thanks as always for taking an interest man... kudos.
PS.... Perhaps it would only be inviting AFK players... but if there where Stf style pvp chips awarded for pvp... this would allow you guys to throw a 1 hour double time into the event time table. MIght be nice to test that for a week if you go with something similer to this and see if it improves pvp uptake... or simply encourages afking... I would like to think people would take it as a proper chance to try out the games great pvp... you could be right though the afk trolls in the game may just come out to play.
Color me curious... Does anyone have a solid proposal for awarding Fleet Marks (or anything tangible, really) for PvP matches under the existing system (meaning, no new features or tech) that wouldn't be quickly and easily exploitable?
Let's say we stick it in as a PvP Daily, for the sake of argument... Would we not see an influx of AFK'ers and Kill Feeders that would diminish the overall experience of PvP, while quickly working their way to this new Daily reward?
There are two obvious solutions to this:
1) Allow it, and set the rewards very, very low to compensate.
-or-
2) Set the mission condition to "Win A Public Match" (since both losing and private matches can be exploited for mission completion, otherwise).
Solution #1 renders the mission nearly pointless. We may as well give away free Fleet Marks, which more of our players would be able to enjoy without diminishing the PvP experience for those that are actually attempting to play matches.
Solution #2 locks out the rewards to all but an elite portion of a small community of our overall playerbase. Let's face it - you guys aren't just good at PvP, you take it to a level that most of our players are unlikely to be able to even comprehend, much less defeat in a match. And even for the really elite PvPers, you'll on average have a 50% win rate when matched up against other elites, meaning that half the time you run the mission you get nothing.
If I'm overlooking another obvious solution, I'd love to hear your theories on it. Finding a way to reward PvP is a big step towards getting more players to participate in it. It's important. But under our existing system, our options are very limited.
I see no real problem with number #2. Even "noobs" win matches, since sometimes they fight other noobs instead of Premades or long-term-PvPers, or they join a team that happens to have a few stronger players in them.
Overall, it provides a strong incentive to PvP with a goal for winning. Dilithium farming doesn't require it, but at least the marks reuqire it.
Also,m even if we'd pretend only Premades and PvP Fleets ever have a chance to win a match and get these marks - that alone is already worth it, since currently they are forced into non-PvP activity for pure grinding purposes. That is a problem that is actually hurting the fleets as the fleet is split between those caring enough
for Fleet advancement that they'll spend their limited time PvEing, while the other group just wants to PvP but now find potential team mates busy PvEing.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I think the best suggestion so far was to attach some fleet marks to the kill enemy players mission the KDF has. Add the same mission to fed and reward them with 25 fleet marks. I think that would be a reasonable number. Also that mission is not tied to a game mode so CNH, Arena and even Kerrat players will profit.
25 marks a day wont be game breaking and we all will be a bit happier.
In addition to thinking that attaching fleetmarks to damage or kills would solve the problem nicely, I'm with those saying that 'option 2' is fine. Incentives for winning don't discourage competition, they promote it.
FM's as rewards for PvP kills will create a slaughterfest event rewarding the elite PvP'ers.
...But rewarding a certain # of PvP kills with FM's (as a repeatable mission until successfully completed) with a few hour cooldown could be fun (think 'path of the warrior'). It could be 'timed' like the old vault mission was- IF started within the event window time, it would be credited as a completed event regardless of when it is actually completed.
FM's as rewards for PvP kills will create a slaughterfest event rewarding the elite PvP'ers.
...But rewarding a certain # of PvP kills with FM's (as a repeatable mission until successfully completed) with a few hour cooldown could be fun (think 'path of the warrior'). It could be 'timed' like the old vault mission was- IF started within the event window time, it would be credited as a completed event regardless of when it is actually completed.
actually it would just create a large number of private ground matches where players without shields n armor are kill farming for FMs
The KDf missions are a good template, and please keep the imbalance between KDF and FEDs on this one. Since Starbases are a huge economy sink already, the kdf simply needs ways to more efficiently receive resources
I think the best suggestion so far was to attach some fleet marks to the kill enemy players mission the KDF has. Add the same mission to fed and reward them with 25 fleet marks. I think that would be a reasonable number. Also that mission is not tied to a game mode so CNH, Arena and even Kerrat players will profit.
25 marks a day wont be game breaking and we all will be a bit happier.
That's actually a great idea. Kill 50 player ships and get 50 fleet marks. Or even better, get 50 pvp emblems, as Husanak said (and how it used to be once upon a time for pvp), and we can trade the emblems for edc, fleet marks, dilithium, etc. and it doesn't seem to be so expensive to implement either...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
actually it would just create a large number of private ground matches where players without shields n armor are kill farming for FMs
The KDf missions are a good template, and please keep the imbalance between KDF and FEDs on this one. Since Starbases are a huge economy sink already, the kdf simply needs ways to more efficiently receive resources
Not really, as an 'event' with cooldown it's not that exploitable but I'm sure it can be made as a public mission ONLY.
Comments
Thanks for posting Borticus!
I'd go for solution #2 personally.
1 - AFKing in a match will be a very inefficient way of grinding fleet marks, since you're making it less likely your team will win. Solution #1 on the otherhand would have the opposite effect, as people will just AFK as they go and do something else (I swear some even have macros set up to queue for matches, I know one rather prolific AFKer was still in a match 30 mins after everyone else decided to leave the match because of him(I found this out by checking the social tab)).
2 - It'll give people a reason to PvP and as such give it a much needed shot in the arm.
3 - It'll also give people a real reason to TRY to win. I'm not saying people don't try at the moment, but an actually reason to win may give them a reason to up their game and improve. Just like No Win Senario and STFs helped people improve their builds.
Sure as a pugger I'll lose a fair share of fights, but I'll also win a good few as well.
While premades trolling the queues is unpleasant to say the least, it's also doesn't dominate it. A majority of the matches will involve pugs of all skills, which gives everyone a chance, not just those of us with years of experience. Also the elite PvPers are really in a minority as far as PvP is concerned. You probably only bump into one every match, unless they're teamed up with their pals.
From my personal experience of the queues a pug is usually made up of one very experienced PvPer, two good PvPers and one new guy, maybe two. So it sort of balances it out, as long as no one formed a premade for the queues.
Also you'll be getting a greater influx of new PvP puggers, which will mean there's a greater chance they'll go up against people of equal skill.
All in all it'll give even those who don't know what a tact team is a chance.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
I can appreciate the issue, none of use what the rewards to be added if it means every public que is full of afk players or dudes running around with out shields on.
I think a SMALL reward could work... I don't need massive rewards for pvp... and private matches, understandable even though the best matches we have are private should NOT be rewarded. We will still do the privates cause that is still the best game play right.
I would say bring back ONE of the pvp badges.... just like STFS reward 2 chips for completing one... you could simply reward 2 pvp badges for ever match win or loose. These badges COULD be used to purchase dilithium boxes... like the stf ones can perhaps at a higher cost... something like 20 chips for the same you get from 10 stf chips... you could also use this model to reward what you feel is a reasonable amount of fleet marks... not so much that afking is productive.. however enough that fleets could choose to pvp for 3-4 hours like we used to instead of 2 hours of pve and 2 hours of pew, like we have sort of been forced to do now. I still don't mind doing the odd PvE map here and there with my friends... it would be nice if we only HAD to do that PvE Map to complete something or if we honestly felt like it.
I don't know it its possible to revive that tech or not (The PvP badges) The pvp consoles are still there on ganalda and K7.... it would be just adding that menu back in. Throwing in some rewards....
In a future update perhaps the same badges... COULD be a method to intro STF gear for PvP... again price it so AFKers are not getting there STF gear... price it so a month of PvP can provide a tangible reward. Perhaps at some point even offer cross faction gear sets this way.... something like 200 pvp badges for a Maco Or KHG piece for the opposite faction. (Yes I understand this could be a draw for STF people... but hey perhaps you at the same time add a Ferengi STF badge vendor on DS9 that would sell you the other factions gear for Ferengi like prices as well).
Thanks as always for taking an interest man... kudos.
PS.... Perhaps it would only be inviting AFK players... but if there where Stf style pvp chips awarded for pvp... this would allow you guys to throw a 1 hour double time into the event time table. MIght be nice to test that for a week if you go with something similer to this and see if it improves pvp uptake... or simply encourages afking... I would like to think people would take it as a proper chance to try out the games great pvp... you could be right though the afk trolls in the game may just come out to play.
Overall, it provides a strong incentive to PvP with a goal for winning. Dilithium farming doesn't require it, but at least the marks reuqire it.
Also,m even if we'd pretend only Premades and PvP Fleets ever have a chance to win a match and get these marks - that alone is already worth it, since currently they are forced into non-PvP activity for pure grinding purposes. That is a problem that is actually hurting the fleets as the fleet is split between those caring enough
for Fleet advancement that they'll spend their limited time PvEing, while the other group just wants to PvP but now find potential team mates busy PvEing.
25 marks a day wont be game breaking and we all will be a bit happier.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
...But rewarding a certain # of PvP kills with FM's (as a repeatable mission until successfully completed) with a few hour cooldown could be fun (think 'path of the warrior'). It could be 'timed' like the old vault mission was- IF started within the event window time, it would be credited as a completed event regardless of when it is actually completed.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
actually it would just create a large number of private ground matches where players without shields n armor are kill farming for FMs
The KDf missions are a good template, and please keep the imbalance between KDF and FEDs on this one. Since Starbases are a huge economy sink already, the kdf simply needs ways to more efficiently receive resources
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
That's actually a great idea. Kill 50 player ships and get 50 fleet marks. Or even better, get 50 pvp emblems, as Husanak said (and how it used to be once upon a time for pvp), and we can trade the emblems for edc, fleet marks, dilithium, etc. and it doesn't seem to be so expensive to implement either...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Not really, as an 'event' with cooldown it's not that exploitable but I'm sure it can be made as a public mission ONLY.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG