what really? video evidence is trolling huh, thats just amazing. turn the quality of the vid up if you cant tell whats going on. watch him hit EPtS and EPS power transfer and watch how it does nothing to his power level, which bottoms out at 9 by the way, as if thats so much better then 0.
No video evidence is not trolling. Statements that were made in that post referring to someone attempting to insult my mental aptitude was trolling. As for the little video I am sure it was an hour long and that it took about 5 seconds to show what you just summed up in one sentence.
I will just give up one example of where 9 is better than 0. Person A in the past brought your shields to zero which dropped them completely.. No Power No Shields at ALL. So then Person A got close and fired their tricobalt torpedo. So at that point 1 of 2 things usually happened. #1 You were destroyed or were almost destroyed, #2 You got atleast 1 shield point to the facing/got shield power restored which absorbed most of the blast. What my issue was is that there are many counters out there for this but if people choose not to use them its penalizing a player who wanted to use this tactic and giving their target a safety net. My original post is that its gimping tactics we could once upon a time use that pretty much have to be scrapped and in some cases have to regear entire characters. I am just guessing here but the person who was trolling has not been playing STO long enough to have known about this tactic or the reasons behind why it was nerfed.
The real productivity I want from all of this is to not completely nerf this altogether but keep your safety nets but also possibly put a proc on certain energy draining things that can disable a subsystem. Basically keep some old tactics alive but not something that is guaranteed to shut someone down all the time. I can sometimes be wrong but its not very often that I am
Edit: Also you can get it lower than 9... Lowest I've seen you can get it down to is 2 in every subsystem. As well the post the person was quoting me from was purely factual information in which the basis for their statements has no merit.
No video evidence is not trolling. Statements that were made in that post referring to someone attempting to insult my mental aptitude was trolling. As for the little video I am sure it was an hour long and that it took about 5 seconds to show what you just summed up in one sentence.
I will just give up one example of where 9 is better than 0. Person A in the past brought your shields to zero which dropped them completely.. No Power No Shields at ALL. So then Person A got close and fired their tricobalt torpedo. So at that point 1 of 2 things usually happened. #1 You were destroyed or were almost destroyed, #2 You got atleast 1 shield point to the facing/got shield power restored which absorbed most of the blast. What my issue was is that there are many counters out there for this but if people choose not to use them its penalizing a player who wanted to use this tactic and giving their target a safety net. My original post is that its gimping tactics we could once upon a time use that pretty much have to be scrapped and in some cases have to regear entire characters. I am just guessing here but the person who was trolling has not been playing STO long enough to have known about this tactic or the reasons behind why it was nerfed.
The real productivity I want from all of this is to not completely nerf this altogether but keep your safety nets but also possibly put a proc on certain energy draining things that can disable a subsystem. Basically keep some old tactics alive but not something that is guaranteed to shut someone down all the time. I can sometimes be wrong but its not very often that I am
Edit: Also you can get it lower than 9... Lowest I've seen you can get it down to is 2 in every subsystem. As well the post the person was quoting me from was purely factual information in which the basis for their statements has no merit.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Please refrain from making anymore posts in the PVP section for your sake.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Aytanhi of TSI, TSI fleet founder and leader OrganizedPVP channel Admin Feel free to ask me about PVP or starship strategies. "No, I am not Borg!" /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Please refrain from making anymore posts in the PVP section for your sake.
Gratz on becoming the decider of what people can and cannot say No, you don't so I would suggest you not make yourself look bad being that I am a person who KNOWS what they are talking about
Gratz on becoming the decider of what people can and cannot say No, you don't so I would suggest you not make yourself look bad being that I am a person who KNOWS what they are talking about
Have a good day
by your own addition you didn't even watch the video. the video shows 100% accurately what actually happens. its nice and short, why don't you watch it so you can have an opinion that is informed and not based on the lies your friends that supposedly tested this told you. your embrace of ignorance makes only you look bad.
the nerf didn't do a damn thing, if you think 9 energy is a life saver vs 0, wow. you can move but at a speed of about 1.0, your shields have 0 resistance and 0 regenerating, you might be able to fire 1 weapon for 0 damage, and any aux based heal will do almost nothing. there is no counter when you are trapped by it, insulators merely slow it down by a fraction of a second, which is irreverent if more then 1 pod gets you. theres nothing you can do, and your worthless shields will grant you about a 1 extra second of life.
whos ****ing bright idea was it to introduce more ****ing power drains!? those tholian torps are out of hand. i went from 51 engine power to 1!
this nis the best example of what you guys are doing wrong. you dont have all the current issues even remotly fixed yet introduce more TRIBBLE like this.
by your own addition you didn't even watch the video. the video shows 100% accurately what actually happens. its nice and short, why don't you watch it so you can have an opinion that is informed and not based on the lies your friends that supposedly tested this told you. your embrace of ignorance makes only you look bad.
the nerf didn't do a damn thing, if you think 9 energy is a life saver vs 0, wow. you can move but at a speed of about 1.0, your shields have 0 resistance and 0 regenerating, you might be able to fire 1 weapon for 0 damage, and any aux based heal will do almost nothing. there is no counter when you are trapped by it, insulators merely slow it down by a fraction of a second, which is irreverent if more then 1 pod gets you. theres nothing you can do, and your worthless shields will grant you about a 1 extra second of life.
Edited to be Nice: Just going to leave it be because there is nothing productive going to come out of any of this childish bickering over who or what does what.
Edited to be Nice: Just going to leave it be because there is nothing productive going to come out of any of this childish bickering over who or what does what.
if you had video evidence that proves mav's video wrong, i'd love to see it. as it stands, i really dont see how you can argue with what you can see on the vid. i continue to see it play out the same way in any pvp match. im down for things being more civil, but you dont have the cred to just come in here and say you know everything, especially when a video shows otherwise.
Edited to be Nice: Just going to leave it be because there is nothing productive going to come out of any of this childish bickering over who or what does what.
You either, did not know what the game mechanics actually do or were deliberately lying in an attempt to keep your crutch from getting nerfed.
So which is it?
Also 9 power? just as bad as 0. You are at -12 percent Defense at 1-4 impulse speed, your aux heals are pathetic, you literally can't do damage with your weapons, your shield resistance is still 0 as is their regen rate meaning they might as well not even be on.
I suggest you watch the video and look at the spec mav has as well, you'll see several times where the power drops even below 9 still as well. You'll also see that Mav threw, batteries, emergency power, and eps power transfer and that the power levels did not rise at the end of the video. The best he got was a brief break in the siphon drones, where he got power levels up to the 20s which is still laughably bad. Especially for something that effectively has no timer being used on him. (20s is still 0 regen on shields by the way and same on SR) You will also note he has ranks in power insulators, and has massive power generation capabilities had you bothered to look at the spec. So yeah "working counters" my TRIBBLE.
Either you are lying, or you need to go learn the game. That's not an insult. That's the truth.
In a way I understand bort. We were crying here the resists are too high. They lower them to 50. Now we say the resists are too low. Thing is that the current resists are too low for some abilities, too high for some other [edit: for some abilities there is no resist at all].. Or better said, some abilities (such siphons) are too strong for the current resists. Of course there are counters for siphons, run a faw or csv and they are done. But it creates an annoyance. Same type of annoyance as too many phaser procs, too many holds and disables. That may be countered With a good premade, but normally, even if it's an opvp 2 team match, teams don't have the right builds to complete eachother member and then you run into similar situations. I do think that a solution for that is a long term one, a redesign of the pvp style, and as much as possible keeping the teaming options we have, for those that want to still use it.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
The problem with PVP in this game, isn't whether or not resistances are too low or too high.
The problem, is that there are far too many things that one must resist, and certain abilities which can counter too many abilities at once.
Off the top of my head, we have;
Shield Drain
Power Drain
Energy Weapon Damage
Projectile Weapon Damage
All ships should have an innate ability to resist both Shield and Power Drain, with skills boosting said resistance (by a factor, alot higher than we have today). Every individual weapon attack, has a different damage type. Forcing players not only to skill for the resistance against certain damage (energy weapon/projectile weapon or both), but also to have proper consoles to resist a specific damage type.
This goes back to my suggestion of having "innate resistance", such as the possibility of Federation ships having a greater resistance to ALL energy weapons damage, and KDF ships having a greater resistance to ALL projectile weapons damage. KDF ships tend to have thicker hulls, while FEDs tend to have stronger shields.
Add to all of this, abilities and skills which have the potential of knocking entire subsystems offline.
This goes back to my suggestion of having "innate resistance", such as the possibility of Federation ships having a greater resistance to ALL energy weapons damage, and KDF ships having a greater resistance to ALL projectile weapons damage. KDF ships tend to have thicker hulls, while FEDs tend to have stronger shields.
Ships need to be balanced against the game mechanics and not the storyline.
What you are suggesting is a "double benefit" for the Feds and no benefit for the KDF whatsoever.
By double benefit you are not only advocating the resistance of Fed. shields, but you are also negating the number one hull smasher, a energy weapon - namely cannons.
Giving the KDF greater resistance to projectiles means little in a game mechanic, where DPS is king. Also, 90 - 95% serious escort builds do not even look towards using projectiles.
Maybe we are going about this the wrong way. Rather than tweaking Power Insulators, let?s tweak the skills themselves.
-Reduce the effectiveness of Power Drain abilities
-Increase the effectiveness of Shield Draining Abilities
-Place a limit as too how low Power Drain Abilities can go on a Target
-Reduce effectiveness of Polaron Weapon PROC
Check to make sure Power Insulators is working correctly
I agree with your basic approach over everyone else who has made a suggestion on this particular issue.
However, I feel that you need to be a bit, if not a lot more specific, with how to reduce the effectiveness of Power Drain Abilities; and more importantly, which power drain abilities specifically need to be made to be less effective.
To that question I would answer, that all power drain abilities that have a passive and continuous draining effect, are in need to be made less effective.
Again, which Shield Draining Abilities Specifically should to be more effective, and how much?
I really strongly feel that no power drain Ability should be able to completely deplete power in any given subsystem. I?d advocate personally that power should never fall below 25 for any particular subsystem. This is not the same as when a subsystem is taken offline. I am speaking specifically here about power draining.
Anyway? it is clear something needs to be done and I really find it offensive that Cryptic/PW is basically saying we don?t understand how the game works that they made for us to play in. It is clear to me, that it is the other way around.
Do you also make a speed limit of 60mph and then say , if you drive 160mph your vehicle exceeds expectations, so no speeding tickets for you. its just easier to deal with people going 65-80 ??
Am i the only one who thinks Bort just beautifully exposed why systems seems amateurish when it comes to pvp and balance
I wouldn't call it amateurish as much as casual oriented, so "good enough" is considered more than adequate for the masses of non specialized builds. In all honesty that only the minor faction (and that's how they see it, no reason to say otherwise) has access to the leech console is the main problem here. If Feds had easy and plentiful access to it and they saw almost all fed players running it, even without an ultra specialized build they might think there's a problem there somewhere, but since only the KDF has it and it only becomes a problem for pvp.... its mostly ignorable.
I would wager that's also why it didn't get put into a lock box, they know what a can of worms that would be if feds got access to it. Or, they are saving it to include it in a lockbox with an unpopular ship in it?
Actually, what i find most interesting is how much light this sheds on WHY pvp is the way it is CO and STO, Bort is clearly adhering to what has become internal company policy... balance everything to the medium. It makes it so clear WHY extreme builds work so well in CO and STO.... and also tells me pvp will never be balanced, ever. Its just not company policy to balance with pvp in mind. Cryptic simply has no internal interest in making a game where pvp is an important aspect of gameplay. *shrugs* But then the pve aspect got turned into a base grind.... I just don't get them sometimes. I appreciate Bort's efforts more that it probably sounds I do, but as a company Cryptic seems to be headed down a senseless path.
The major pcause for this, is that different abilities are affected different by the resistance.
- Some abilities are expensive to run, like TargetSubsystem3, Tachyon 3 or CPB3, and if the resistance gets too high for them, they're not worth having. This is the case atm.
- Some abilities are cheap to run, like the leech console and siphon drones, and if they aren't resisted enough, they become OP. This may also be true atm.
It looks to me as if we actually need it both ways.
If I devote an entire Lt.Cmdr or Cmdr slot a Bridge Officer power, it better be also very useful, particularly compared to the othe rpowers I could put there (which also includes the possiblity of switching to a ship that has access to better powers for tha tslot).
CPB, Target Subsystem or Tachyon Beam aren't there thanks to various aspects.
The opportunity cost between a bridge officer power and a console are just not the same, which was always the problem with console powers and even the original Tier 5 Retrofit powers.
For many science abilities, the main problem is the ability to stack and chain them. Stunlocks, multiple CPBs (pre F2P), Scrabmles and what not. I think the best type of resistance to this still are temporary immunities or tempoary but strong resisittances.
Get hit by a PSW - you're stunned for a short time but immune for a 15 seconds. Get shield drained by CPB or TB? You gain resistance to them for 15 seconds (but none against the initial effect.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
No video evidence is not trolling. Statements that were made in that post referring to someone attempting to insult my mental aptitude was trolling. As for the little video I am sure it was an hour long and that it took about 5 seconds to show what you just summed up in one sentence.
I will just give up one example of where 9 is better than 0. Person A in the past brought your shields to zero which dropped them completely.. No Power No Shields at ALL. So then Person A got close and fired their tricobalt torpedo. So at that point 1 of 2 things usually happened. #1 You were destroyed or were almost destroyed, #2 You got atleast 1 shield point to the facing/got shield power restored which absorbed most of the blast. What my issue was is that there are many counters out there for this but if people choose not to use them its penalizing a player who wanted to use this tactic and giving their target a safety net. My original post is that its gimping tactics we could once upon a time use that pretty much have to be scrapped and in some cases have to regear entire characters. I am just guessing here but the person who was trolling has not been playing STO long enough to have known about this tactic or the reasons behind why it was nerfed.
The real productivity I want from all of this is to not completely nerf this altogether but keep your safety nets but also possibly put a proc on certain energy draining things that can disable a subsystem. Basically keep some old tactics alive but not something that is guaranteed to shut someone down all the time. I can sometimes be wrong but its not very often that I am
Edit: Also you can get it lower than 9... Lowest I've seen you can get it down to is 2 in every subsystem. As well the post the person was quoting me from was purely factual information in which the basis for their statements has no merit.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Please refrain from making anymore posts in the PVP section for your sake.
Aytanhi of TSI, TSI fleet founder and leader OrganizedPVP channel Admin
Feel free to ask me about PVP or starship strategies. "No, I am not Borg!"
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match
Gratz on becoming the decider of what people can and cannot say
Have a good day
by your own addition you didn't even watch the video. the video shows 100% accurately what actually happens. its nice and short, why don't you watch it so you can have an opinion that is informed and not based on the lies your friends that supposedly tested this told you. your embrace of ignorance makes only you look bad.
the nerf didn't do a damn thing, if you think 9 energy is a life saver vs 0, wow. you can move but at a speed of about 1.0, your shields have 0 resistance and 0 regenerating, you might be able to fire 1 weapon for 0 damage, and any aux based heal will do almost nothing. there is no counter when you are trapped by it, insulators merely slow it down by a fraction of a second, which is irreverent if more then 1 pod gets you. theres nothing you can do, and your worthless shields will grant you about a 1 extra second of life.
this nis the best example of what you guys are doing wrong. you dont have all the current issues even remotly fixed yet introduce more TRIBBLE like this.
your game. it sickens me.
Edited to be Nice: Just going to leave it be because there is nothing productive going to come out of any of this childish bickering over who or what does what.
if you had video evidence that proves mav's video wrong, i'd love to see it. as it stands, i really dont see how you can argue with what you can see on the vid. i continue to see it play out the same way in any pvp match. im down for things being more civil, but you dont have the cred to just come in here and say you know everything, especially when a video shows otherwise.
You either, did not know what the game mechanics actually do or were deliberately lying in an attempt to keep your crutch from getting nerfed.
So which is it?
Also 9 power? just as bad as 0. You are at -12 percent Defense at 1-4 impulse speed, your aux heals are pathetic, you literally can't do damage with your weapons, your shield resistance is still 0 as is their regen rate meaning they might as well not even be on.
I suggest you watch the video and look at the spec mav has as well, you'll see several times where the power drops even below 9 still as well. You'll also see that Mav threw, batteries, emergency power, and eps power transfer and that the power levels did not rise at the end of the video. The best he got was a brief break in the siphon drones, where he got power levels up to the 20s which is still laughably bad. Especially for something that effectively has no timer being used on him. (20s is still 0 regen on shields by the way and same on SR) You will also note he has ranks in power insulators, and has massive power generation capabilities had you bothered to look at the spec. So yeah "working counters" my TRIBBLE.
Either you are lying, or you need to go learn the game. That's not an insult. That's the truth.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
And there is 0 resistance that applies to them at all. It was even this way at the 75 percent resist that the resist skills were set to.
Because someone over there is such facerolling tardlet that they can't be bothered to make sure their skill tree actually functions.
The problem, is that there are far too many things that one must resist, and certain abilities which can counter too many abilities at once.
Off the top of my head, we have;
Shield Drain
Power Drain
Energy Weapon Damage
Projectile Weapon Damage
All ships should have an innate ability to resist both Shield and Power Drain, with skills boosting said resistance (by a factor, alot higher than we have today). Every individual weapon attack, has a different damage type. Forcing players not only to skill for the resistance against certain damage (energy weapon/projectile weapon or both), but also to have proper consoles to resist a specific damage type.
This goes back to my suggestion of having "innate resistance", such as the possibility of Federation ships having a greater resistance to ALL energy weapons damage, and KDF ships having a greater resistance to ALL projectile weapons damage. KDF ships tend to have thicker hulls, while FEDs tend to have stronger shields.
Add to all of this, abilities and skills which have the potential of knocking entire subsystems offline.
Ships need to be balanced against the game mechanics and not the storyline.
What you are suggesting is a "double benefit" for the Feds and no benefit for the KDF whatsoever.
By double benefit you are not only advocating the resistance of Fed. shields, but you are also negating the number one hull smasher, a energy weapon - namely cannons.
Giving the KDF greater resistance to projectiles means little in a game mechanic, where DPS is king. Also, 90 - 95% serious escort builds do not even look towards using projectiles.
I agree with your basic approach over everyone else who has made a suggestion on this particular issue.
However, I feel that you need to be a bit, if not a lot more specific, with how to reduce the effectiveness of Power Drain Abilities; and more importantly, which power drain abilities specifically need to be made to be less effective.
To that question I would answer, that all power drain abilities that have a passive and continuous draining effect, are in need to be made less effective.
Again, which Shield Draining Abilities Specifically should to be more effective, and how much?
I really strongly feel that no power drain Ability should be able to completely deplete power in any given subsystem. I?d advocate personally that power should never fall below 25 for any particular subsystem. This is not the same as when a subsystem is taken offline. I am speaking specifically here about power draining.
Anyway? it is clear something needs to be done and I really find it offensive that Cryptic/PW is basically saying we don?t understand how the game works that they made for us to play in. It is clear to me, that it is the other way around.
I wouldn't call it amateurish as much as casual oriented, so "good enough" is considered more than adequate for the masses of non specialized builds. In all honesty that only the minor faction (and that's how they see it, no reason to say otherwise) has access to the leech console is the main problem here. If Feds had easy and plentiful access to it and they saw almost all fed players running it, even without an ultra specialized build they might think there's a problem there somewhere, but since only the KDF has it and it only becomes a problem for pvp.... its mostly ignorable.
I would wager that's also why it didn't get put into a lock box, they know what a can of worms that would be if feds got access to it. Or, they are saving it to include it in a lockbox with an unpopular ship in it?
Actually, what i find most interesting is how much light this sheds on WHY pvp is the way it is CO and STO, Bort is clearly adhering to what has become internal company policy... balance everything to the medium. It makes it so clear WHY extreme builds work so well in CO and STO.... and also tells me pvp will never be balanced, ever. Its just not company policy to balance with pvp in mind. Cryptic simply has no internal interest in making a game where pvp is an important aspect of gameplay. *shrugs* But then the pve aspect got turned into a base grind.... I just don't get them sometimes. I appreciate Bort's efforts more that it probably sounds I do, but as a company Cryptic seems to be headed down a senseless path.
heh, casual oriented in the meaning that is would be beautiful if all players were casual
now throw someone non-casual in there, and you have a fox in the henhouse!
It looks to me as if we actually need it both ways.
If I devote an entire Lt.Cmdr or Cmdr slot a Bridge Officer power, it better be also very useful, particularly compared to the othe rpowers I could put there (which also includes the possiblity of switching to a ship that has access to better powers for tha tslot).
CPB, Target Subsystem or Tachyon Beam aren't there thanks to various aspects.
The opportunity cost between a bridge officer power and a console are just not the same, which was always the problem with console powers and even the original Tier 5 Retrofit powers.
For many science abilities, the main problem is the ability to stack and chain them. Stunlocks, multiple CPBs (pre F2P), Scrabmles and what not. I think the best type of resistance to this still are temporary immunities or tempoary but strong resisittances.
Get hit by a PSW - you're stunned for a short time but immune for a 15 seconds. Get shield drained by CPB or TB? You gain resistance to them for 15 seconds (but none against the initial effect.)