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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Not the right size.

amatsu287amatsu287 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I love this game, even with it's many flaws. However there has been a topic that I wish Cryptic would address or at least give an answer as to, WHY IS NOTHING PROPORTIONAL!?!?!?

I'm not talking about my head being to large for my body or anything like that. I'm talking about why a defiant is 1/4 the size of Starfleets largest ships? This is wrong in my mind and I can't seem to grasp why this hasn't been addressed or why it wasn't in the game to start with. I always thought it would be bad TRIBBLE to skim the haul of a borg cube in a Defiant while unleashing hell upon them.

There is a GREAT model to look at, EVE online. It has one world but not only does it scale EVERYTHING, but each system can hold just shy of 2500 players. Thats all on one screen as well.

Am I the only one who thinks this or even has brought it up? If not please lets hear what you have to say. If I am what do you think about this becomeing an update sometime in the future?
Post edited by amatsu287 on

Comments

  • foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I too would like to see the ships scaled a bit better.

    A defiant class ship should be small enough to fit in between the nacelles of a Sovereign class.


    Hell, it should be able to land on the secondary hull of the Oddy.
  • trexelcat#9733 trexelcat
    trexelcat#9733
         Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    There is a LOT of scaling issues. Not just external but internal as well. Bridges the size of Olympic stadiums, hallways built two stories high, transporter rooms that make you feel like you were in the movie Honey I Shrunk The Kids movie.

    I haven't had the time or money to get the "new bridge bundles" where they supposedly rescaled select bridges down to proper sizes. But to be honest, paying money for proper sizes just kinda turns me off to the idea.

    It will be a C/Zen store option though, eventually. 6000 zen per each rescaled costume for each ship. That can only be unlocked for one character per purchase.
  • grouchyotakugrouchyotaku Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    [QUOTE=amatsu287;5132281...
    I'm not talking about my head being to large for my body or anything like that. I'm talking about why a defiant is 1/4 the size of Starfleets largest ships? This is wrong in my mind and I can't seem to grasp why this hasn't been addressed or why it wasn't in the game to start with. I always thought it would be bad TRIBBLE to skim the haul of a borg cube in a Defiant while unleashing hell upon them.
    ...[/QUOTE]
    So you want the Dfiant even smaller??? If it was to scale, then it would be roughly half the length of the Saucer section of a Galaxy Class and too small to see any real detail on the model. And Shuttles would just be a speck on the screen...
  • happyhappyj0yj0yhappyhappyj0yj0y Member Posts: 699 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    In order for the Defiant to be in proper scale it would have to radically change to various different random sizes as you zone. Then you'd have a canon defiant.

    Because when it came to consistency, especially concerning scale, DS9 never gave a **** anyway...
  • velktravelktra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It's already pretty small on the screen... I'd hate to see the Defiant shrink even more. I like to see my "custom" pattern. :P

    And I'd really hate if the shuttles shrank. Even the Danube runabout is a tiny, hard-to-steer little thing.
    Demons run when a good man goes to war.
  • kimmerakimmera Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Everything seen in space is representations anyway. In combat no one is looking out a window to target. Scaling would need to be adjusted for target recognition purposes.

    It is the same issue as people wanting to navigate via main view screen. No sane helmsman or navigator would ever do so, just as no jet pilot would ever navigate entirely visually baring complete instrument failure.
  • tangolighttangolight Member Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    As far as the actual ships go, most actually are to scale, except for the shuttles, and that's for visibility reasons.

    As for the Defiant, considering that it's size is anywhere from 50m to 200m, it's hard to call it inaccurate. (See http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/defiant-problems.htm for more details.)

    Also, you can take a look at http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=219383 to see just how well the ships are scaling.
  • cusashorncusashorn Member Posts: 461
    edited August 2012
    You think that's bad?

    Go to Bajor. You will find a cargo station orbiting a moon. The cargo station is roughly 1/4th the size of the moon. The cargo station itself is only slightly longer than an Oddy.
    "My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
    -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jkstocbrjkstocbr Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Because the ships in the TV shows changed sizes also. For example, the Defiant docked is larger than the action scenes as it zipped though DS9 chasing Jem'Hadar ships.
  • cusashorncusashorn Member Posts: 461
    edited August 2012
    jkstocbr wrote: »
    Because the ships in the TV shows changed sizes also. For example, the Defiant docked is larger than the action scenes as it zipped though DS9 chasing Jem'Hadar ships.

    And said Jem'Hadar ships decided to prove a point by ramming their way through the saucer of a Galaxy during their introduction.
    "My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
    -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lordfuzunlordfuzun Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The big problem is that Star Trek itself wan't consistent about the sizes of ships. There was not central authority which enforces consistent ship sizes. And the Defiant was the worst of all. The ship designers have done the bes tthat they can in terms of ship sizing. Somethings in the game are done for artistic or game play reasons. DS9 is oversized but it's for artists reason as having dozens of play ships spawn outside it made is seem smaller. And player shuttles are oversize in relation to larger ships to make them large enough to be easily vieable when flying. All of the shuttles are correctly sized in relation to each other.

    On a personal note, I think they've got the Defiant a bit oversized in the game. But that's just me.
  • cusashorncusashorn Member Posts: 461
    edited August 2012
    Do you know how GIGANTIC Voyager would have to be in order to cast a mirror-like reflection as it passes over the rings of ice during it's opening?
    "My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
    -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    cusashorn wrote: »
    And said Jem'Hadar ships decided to prove a point by ramming their way through the saucer of a Galaxy during their introduction.

    actually one ship rammed into the side of the neck

    http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200509/ds9-446-jem-hadar-kamikaze-run/320x240.jpg

    http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/33400/1251797-galaxy3_super.jpg
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    gpgtx wrote: »
    actually one ship rammed into the side of the neck

    http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200509/ds9-446-jem-hadar-kamikaze-run/320x240.jpg

    http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/33400/1251797-galaxy3_super.jpg

    I always felt it was the deflector they were trying to hit. But now you say it...
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
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  • jkstocbrjkstocbr Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This is one of my favourite YouTube vids showing off the Defiant. Have a look at all the different sizes .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5FmSmyHaCI
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    LOL i like how it was roughly the same size as the vor'cha then shown weaving through DS9
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • amatsu287amatsu287 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Ok first off you wouldn't lose any detailing with a properly scaled ship. and as far as targeting goes that is fixed with 1. the current targeting system (which needs work) and its redical around the ships. 2. you can have something like EVE has, a side bar that shows items (of your choosing i might add) that can e clicked on to target.

    Have none of you actually played EVE online? The game is great with awesome graphics. I just wished that it played more like STO and visa verse.

    Also the regardless of how the Shows and movies have shown these ships, there are blue prints and graphs that show how large these ships are compared to others. A ship with a crew of 50 shouldn't be anywhere near 1/4 the size of the federations LARGEST starship with a crew of 2,500. And this isn't all about the Defiant. I used her as an example. Its all the ships and stations.
  • kimmerakimmera Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I repeats:

    No one is looking out a window at these ships. No one uses un-aided optics to view anything in space. Space is way too big for that.

    So you are always looking at a computer generated simulation of what the sensors see and the scaling is whatever is deemed useful rather than actual sizes.

    Objects in the forward view sensor may be closer (or farther) than they appear. Its as simple as that.
  • amatsu287amatsu287 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Um ya they are. Thats why there are windows on the ships. How many time have they shown ships through windows? Tons. There are even times when YES they have fought using their own 2 eyes. Why? cause the bridge got blown the F^#% up.

    And your reference to pilots prefering to fly with instruments is WAY off. They fly WITH them not BY them. otherwise they may as well be in flying subs. In fact using subs would have helped your argument more. However you didnt think that far, so now all your other points will be made atop garbage knowledge.

    -FYI I know how pilots fly and prefer to fly cause I not only worked with them but flew with them many times.
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Basic flight training for pilots includes a period where they have to wear a hood so that they can only see their instruments, yes pilots prefer to fly with full visibility but they also have to know how to fly by instruments only because sometimes they have to fly with zero visibility conditions.

    Back on the topic, scaling is an issue even in the TV series, DS9 is supposed to be massive but interior sets don't match the exterior dimensions, the interiors as well as the size of shuttles on their pads elude to the station being no bigger than a Galaxy class ship yet when one is docked it is always considerably smaller than the station.

    Some things can't be scaled properly, a single planet at proper scale in the game would take up the space of several existing sectors.
    Some of the scaling issues are more a matter of user convenience, players would quickly find it tiresome if they had to zoom in to see a Danube shuttle if it was scaled faithfully with actual ships being staggeringly big in comparison, smaller ships, fighters and shuttles would be infinitely tiny specks buzzing around which would have very little eye appeal.
    Nor would players be interested in the hours or days it would actually take to fly from one object to another in space in those areas were rendered to scale.

    The game is meant to be visually enticing and objects are scaled to give you something to look at when you are shooting at it. It probably wouldn't be as interesting to be shooting at little dots as things would appear if they were properly scaled at the distances they are supposed to be at.
    So for imaginations sake we could say that what we are seeing in game is not a view out the window but a computer visualization of what the objects magnified shape looks like centered on the objects actual location.
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
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