Mentioned the original notion to some of my guys in the Fleet (1701 Renegade Tactical Squadron, if you'll pardon the shameless plug!)and got positive responses. And, now I'll only mention this once: NO ONE went on a tear about "Oh this couldn't work because of ___" or "This kind of ship already does that!" Or whatever the hell!
My mates did poke light fun at my love for the Intrepid Retro. Said it only had 3 Fore & Aft, but it's pretty. And is weak on Tactical, but it's pretty. LOL. They don't say that much when we're actually in an STF or Fleet event When she's all Beam Target Subsystems, Tractor's, Viral Matrix & Torp spreads locking down aggresives and shooting off heals. It's not a great mix yet, but its getting there.
I like the Intrepid for the Cmdr & Lt. Cmdr Sci and well it is cool looking! :P Pretty isn't the word I'd use! LOL! And well that brings me to an actual point. I hate giving real world money to PWE, but I like some of the things these so-called "pay to win" ships offer. But for me it usually ends up being "pay to drive yourself nuts obsessing over finding a build that does decent damage, doesn't get blown all to hell every three minutes and more importantly doesn't clash with preferred style of play or warm fuzzies regarding the franchise in general. You name it I've owned it, flown it or know someone personally who has. But again I digress.
I'm not experienced playing a Tactical Captain, yet. Probably going to have to roll up one or two sooner or later. But I know enough to know I don't know enough, ok. That's why I liked my Oddy's & D'kora and some of the KDF ships (and the Tholian's but I haven't had the pleasure to own one personally.) I liked them because they all seem to have that "and a" factor with a Lt Cmdr Tac and a Lt Tac, or Engy. Or the one's that have a Universal Station in whatever flavor. There IS always some compromise. I could go look at Wiki & DEv Blogs to quote specifics , but It's too damn late in the evening. Either you get where I'm going with this or you don't. You can hit a wood TRIBBLE with a hammer all day but that wont make it a nail
Take a deep breath, step back a bit and get back to basics. Brainstorming in broad strokes usually works best at first, especially if the committee's getting bogged down on specifics...
It's function seems straight forward and already agreed upon for the most part. A great big hulking beast meant to scare the bejeebers out of anyone in it's path before it ever gets in range to fire the first shot. Without going back and rehashing the how's & what-if's I'd say funtion is solid. What about form? True design brainstorming.
Nacelles? Two, Four, or None? (Personally never been a fan of the Three Nacelle's on the Gal-X. Looked bad-TRIBBLE for that one shining moment in All Good Things, but I really didn't "buy-it" Too Asymetrical and Tacked On.
Propulsion? Massive multiple redundant 25th century warp cores or something more exotic? Either option would make sense with the massive power drain of the broadside weaponry. Two things I'm thinking need more thought along those lines. Massive redundant cores would make one hell of a boom when the ship goes down. Exotic tech though would be something of a spoiler as to where the designs were initially taken from regardless of which faction actually brought them to fruition; Fed, KDF or non-aligned "other". Stick a pin in that for now.
Finally the singal most important part of the puzzle, regardless of of how it actually functions in-game the broadside volleys just have to be something "It's coming about again, charging weapons... Oh TRIBBLE, RUN AWAY" This IS the Magic Castle or Spaceship Earth of our traveling theme park of carnage. Regardless of what actual in-game mechanic actually is used so think BIG!
Here I'm personally thinking less of a swivel or gimbals arrangement or side-mounted cannons. More like a series of gun portals that glow menacingly and maybe buzz with arcing energy the moment it stops advancing forward and starts to target everything withing range... For sake of argument lets just say anything within 15 K, damage of course lessened for anything outside of the 10 k kill box. Then again I could see random crits on anything just outside the 15 k mark. Otherwise the all too mentioned quick and agile would really pose too much of a threat negating the whole shock-and-awe effect!
Here's the thing though with the over the top visuals fx... BOTH sides are glowing and buzzing with the promise of a quick and fiery messy death which one should the attackers focus fire on? Better make up your minds quick! The only one who really knows is the behemoth's captain and allies and until he pushes that button to commit there's still the problem of conventional weapons fore & aft and the rest of his team and/or close support craft/carrier pets. Yeah, I'm thinking along those lines too, maybe one or two hangars, no more. Possibly limited, slightly nerfed. Or maybe the ability to use special point-defense turrets that can only fire just before and just after the broadsides.
At the risk of sounding like a lunatic with a vision I'd like to invite this discussion and it's very brilliant and knowledgeable minds further down the path of madness beyond the realm of what's already been done in-game. Stop worrying about what color the officers' seat cushions should be dammit and think outside the box!
Think of the messiest, scariest most jaw-dropping deep-space slug-fest throw-down you've ever seen in any game, movie book or TV series and give it a name. Then amp it up a few notches.
It's the 25th Century and all the old familiar baddies are sitting down to the same table ready to carve big hunks out of our galaxy. The Oddy's & Borts and each faction's carriers or retrofits are not the latest & greatest anymore and they simply aren't going to stop the big bad's at the door or send them packing, at least not in a cost-effective way same with the new stuff from our own fleet shipyards.
A decisive victory should be Big, Ugly and Efficient
Savor the madness!
Star Trek Online really needs a shadow ship, or vorlon attack cruiser.
Hell, lets just change the name of the game to 'Space Adventures Online'. because we're getting sooooo far from what is canon and what isn't.
Typhoon class? never heard of it, is that canon or yet another fan boy community botch job that is TRIBBLE this IP?
Starfleet did build massive ships which were called battleships for the war with the Concordium, but they stopped making these due to the massive cost involved.
Sov is the nearest thing Feds have to a battleship - see first contact.
or the Galaxy - see different time line.
I play this game because it's Star Trek, like alot of others.
We've already got silly pets running around starbases after certain Captains, we've got cross faction ships being used for starfleet missions. Federation officer flying about in a cardassian crusier completeing missions for the federation... Yeah as if that would ever happen.
Please PWE/Cryptic, try to keep as near as canon as you can. If you don't care about ships being canon in the game, please can i get a massive shadow crab cruiser ship
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Nacelles? Two, Four, or None? (Personally never been a fan of the Three Nacelle's on the Gal-X. Looked bad-TRIBBLE for that one shining moment in All Good Things, but I really didn't "buy-it" Too Asymetrical and Tacked On.
-OJD
1) The only Star Fleet dreadnought is only semi-official by way of the TOS Star Fleet Technical Manual and a very blurry image in one of the TOS movies, but it had 3 nacelles.
2) How can a dorsal nacelle make a ship asymmetrical? As for looking 'tacked on,' almost all Star Fleet nacelles are attached to the hull by pylons. Thus they all look 'tacked on.' The TOS connie is deliberately that way.
One, two, four has never made much sense to me in terms of ship design, especially when the first vessel we know of with four nacelles is the Stargazer, which is lower displacement than the two nacelle'd Galaxy.
2) How can a dorsal nacelle make a ship asymmetrical?
I could see the ship appear asymmetrical from an off-center point of view. But yeah, technically not.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
2) You cannot train Boffs for someone else regardless. You have to assign them to a ship to train them, at which point they become bound and can be dismissed but cannot be moved back to the trading pool
LOL, yes, you can. You honestly have had no idea that you can trade boffs, have other people train them in LTC and CDR abilities, and then trade them back...?
Sorry, but (to the original poster) that's not a battleship.
A battleship is huge, slow, turns like a brick, has weapon energy to spare, and can take a pounding from multiple enemy ships and still survive.
It should be heavy on engineer consoles, followed by a few tac, and even fewer sci.
It should have a huge crew (2-3 thousand), and is built for one purpose. To be an anchor for a fleet of smaller ships, and serve as the command vessel for the entire fleet.
I agree with giving it inate armor, and allow it to have single cannons (no dual cannons). It should be the slowest ship, with the worst turn radius, but have the most weapons and available power.
Yup, and like every other ST:O battleship completely unprotected sides. Cannons tho powerful leave a battleship completely defenseless to a side attack, where a traditional battleship is most powerful.
Perhaps but what he said still holds: Yet another fan boy community botch job that is TRIBBLE this IP.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Perhaps but what he said still holds: Yet another fan boy community botch job that is TRIBBLE this IP.
I'm old enough to remember how the BBSes lit-up after the premiere of TNG in '87 so people could complain about how much the show was TRIBBLE the IP because there was a Klingon in Starfleet - the Klingons who had just killed Kirk's son a few years earlier in the Search for Spock.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I'm old enough to remember how the BBSes lit-up after the premiere of TNG in '87 so people could complain about how much the show was TRIBBLE the IP because there was a Klingon in Starfleet - the Klingons who had just killed Kirk's son a few years earlier in the Search for Spock.
All arguments for Canon **** might be valid and worth something if the game wasn't set 30 years into the future from the last prime line....technically this is the new canon, as it is the only thing still representing the Prime Universe in lore.
not to mention they do their very best to give each "outside" ship I.E. Galor a backstory as to why they are being flown by federation characters.
All arguments for Canon **** might be valid and worth something if the game wasn't set 30 years into the future from the last prime line....technically this is the new canon, as it is the only thing still representing the Prime Universe in lore.
not to mention they do their very best to give each "outside" ship I.E. Galor a backstory as to why they are being flown by federation characters.
Hey! I'm all for the new ships. As you say, this timeline is 30 years past Nemesis and 40 years past the launch of TNG. As far as I'm concerned Galaxies should be the T1 ships in the game, with Sovereigns at T2, and all new IP ships at T3 and higher.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
LOL, yes, you can. You honestly have had no idea that you can trade boffs, have other people train them in LTC and CDR abilities, and then trade them back...?
Lol, I now know that you can, lol, but it is very lol... counter-intuitive, since, lol, normally you have to take them on as, lol, crew to train them, lol.
Once they are your, lol, crew, your options normally become discharge, promote, or lol, train, with no LOL way to move them back into your lol, pool.
So, sorry for my not realizing something the game doesn't actually tell you outright, implies strongly that it would not work (since once as crew BOffs seem bound), and that you would not know unless you got into a trade and tried it.
1) The only Star Fleet dreadnought is only semi-official by way of the TOS Star Fleet Technical Manual and a very blurry image in one of the TOS movies, but it had 3 nacelles.
2) How can a dorsal nacelle make a ship asymmetrical? As for looking 'tacked on,' almost all Star Fleet nacelles are attached to the hull by pylons. Thus they all look 'tacked on.' The TOS connie is deliberately that way.
One, two, four has never made much sense to me in terms of ship design, especially when the first vessel we know of with four nacelles is the Stargazer, which is lower displacement than the two nacelle'd Galaxy.
Really guys? Guess it's just me. Port >> Starboard >> DORSAL?!? W/O Going completely geekazoid and bringing warp field dynamics, hull stress and structural integrity into the discussion. Three nacelles has never worked for me on a purely aesthetic basis.
@kimmera Bonus pts for bringing up Stagazer, forgot about that.
Oh and by the way, whens the last time you guys counted the nacelles on the multi-vecc's? LOL!
As to the cannon or IP-ness (lol Cryptic's phrase-ology, not mine!)
1) STO is set in the 25th century and the galaxy is at war so a lot has changed. Tech from other eras and races has been advanced and adapted. I'm sure we all use some of the M.A.C.O., Honor Guard or Borg tech, right? Transwarp jumps and Quantum Slipstreaam drives are used commonly, unless you prefer the slow boat to ESD? The small steps advancing androids, AI and holographic tech made by the TNG Enterprise crew and Voyager made photonic and android officers more commonplace etc etc.
2) It's a game and some concessions have to be made to appeal to the unwashed masses. Lockbox ships and vanity pets feed the devs and keep the PWE execs dressed in smart business suits, they aren't cheap.
Really guys? Guess it's just me. Port >> Starboard >> DORSAL?!? W/O Going completely geekazoid and bringing warp field dynamics, hull stress and structural integrity into the discussion. Three nacelles has never worked for me on a purely aesthetic basis.
The nacelles on Kirk's TOS Connie are attached to the secondary hull by sticks, and you are arguing against the Galaxy X's structural integrity? Really? And if warp drive required symmetry, why are the nacelles set so far back? Shouldn't they be centered front to back to ensure an even warp bubble?
Fair enough on not liking the aesthetics, though
@kimmera Bonus pts for bringing up Stagazer, forgot about that.
Oh and by the way, whens the last time you guys counted the nacelles on the multi-vecc's? LOL!
Special case, but I consider that a silly ship anyway.
As to the cannon or IP-ness (lol Cryptic's phrase-ology, not mine!)
1) STO is set in the 25th century and the galaxy is at war so a lot has changed. Tech from other eras and races has been advanced and adapted. I'm sure we all use some of the M.A.C.O., Honor Guard or Borg tech, right? Transwarp jumps and Quantum Slipstreaam drives are used commonly, unless you prefer the slow boat to ESD? The small steps advancing androids, AI and holographic tech made by the TNG Enterprise crew and Voyager made photonic and android officers more commonplace etc etc.
Holographic, yes (although they conveniently seem to ignore the obvious related social issues). Androids, not so much. Data was a one-of, and not replicated in Picard's time. Data tried but failed.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
A huge hulking beast of a ship that can hopefully turn the tide of this war if not scare the opposition into suing for peace immediately on sight...
I wasn't prepared to go this far for lack of patience and the crayons, but let me paint a picture here... It won't be pretty.
It's war people, on several fronts.
Fed vs. KDF... Immaterial. Before the Khitomer Accords hostilities were nearly commonplace. Even before the Dominion war tensions were high there. The seemingly unprovoked attack on the Gorn homeworld was simply the last straw... or was it?
Romulans? Since the Hobus disaster their power base has been marginalized, they aren't a major player, now at least.
Dominion, Cardassians, and rogue groups like the True Way or the Orion Syndicate continue to be a growing concern.
Still there's a bigger picture.
The Borg have been spotted in every major sector in the galaxy and have taken whole worlds in the Gamma Oriana region as well as Deferra Prime and Kerrat. Special Task Forces of joint fleets both Fed & KDF, using very specialized weapons, tactics and ships of classified origin have been working diligently to contain these seemingly random instances of Borg incursions throughout the galaxy.
It seems like they're everywhere, either searching for, or running from something. Individuals liberated from the collective have not yet been able to shed any further light on this possibility.
Then there's disturbing reports of "Shapeshifters", imposters infiltrating the command structure of nearly every major player in the political structure of the galaxy. Contacts in both the KDF & Starfleet have ruled out the Founders, that leaves the Undine or Species 8472. Reports on their movements and motivations are sketchy at best, but up until recently it was believed they wanted only to be left alone in their dimension or "fluidic space"
So at the end of the day we have every major and minor aggressor in the galaxy potentially at each others throats, as it's so often been before for the last three hundred years or so. But we have two very powerful and unpredictable wild-cards; the Borg and Undine; who we know both have the abilities to transfer ships and personnel virtually any where, at any time, without warning almost instantly. And in the case of the Undine may be able to pose as any body.
So I ask you gentlemen & ladies... Captains... Vice Admirals and Lt. Generals... I ask you this. What do we do? What DO WE DO when forces both known and unknown are moving in on our respective territories... When every allegiance seems to be only a temporary cease-fire. Every sentient species capable of warp drive technology that has an axe to grind seems to be looking at his neighbor with an itchy trigger finger and it seems some unseen hand, claw or tendril is writing in big bold letter that we are bound for total war, what do we do?
We look at the facts as they are. Both threats; the Borg and the Undine can be traced back to the Delta Quadrant, I'm sure everyone can agree on that. I could point out records from the Enterprise D and Voyager supporting these facts, but I don't think I need to do that. Suffice it to say these are historical facts. Lets look more in depth into other historical facts of those eras in the past and those areas. Both ships have encountered many different races, some peaceful, some not. Many with technologies that were equal if not superior to our own at the time. All of these are historical facts, which can be researched in greater detail. Are you still with me? Superior technologies, superior firepower and yet we prevailed. Why? Because we had to.
So let me make this perfectly clear for those of you that are hard of hearing. I for one don't want to see my family or crew assimilated or replaced by some squishy quadruped in a god damn skin suit! Neither do I want to see them in the middle of a three way with Cardassian separatists, Breen raiders or Ferengi Pirates. Do you understand me now?
This committee will come to order, settle their differences and un-fu... remedy this situation immediately. We need a design that will totally demoralize the enemy. We need a threat of overwhelming, embarrassing defeat that will make the opportunistic profiteers think twice about stepping out of line and will beat the unknown invaders so bad their descendants will soil themselves when they hear about how we held the line, am I understood? If a delegate from the Tholian Assembly beams in and offers us a prototype for that damn web system that actually works someone here better damn well thank him and shake whatever appendage he offers, am I understood?
Until we have a working design agreed upon all other priorities are rescinded, all leaves cancelled. The replicators have been programmed to dispense nothing but basic .nutrients, black coffee and Raktajino.
The nacelles on Kirk's TOS Connie are attached to the secondary hull by sticks, and you are arguing against the Galaxy X's structural integrity? Really? And if warp drive required symmetry, why are the nacelles set so far back? Shouldn't they be centered front to back to ensure an even warp bubble?
Fair enough on not liking the aesthetics, though
Aight, you may have a point with the Connie, or not when you look at their track record. How many of them actually survived their five year missions?!?! I'm actually starting to believe Cryptic was right making them Tier 1. Forget the SIF, what were they using for inertial dampeners?!? "Brace for impact!" BOING Everyone goes flying! Hell the 1701 refit practically had seatbelts! They fell apart at the drop of a hat! There's a reason why the Enterprise was in the Smithsonian and not the Constitution, or the second Intrepid (Connie, Vulcans, Nom nom nom!). Death traps, all of them!
Still not the kind of interstellar death machine we were originally talking about.
Point is we adapt and evolve, or we get assimilated and replaced.
Too much coffee waiting for the server, which came back up an hour ago, so yeah, this has been fun.
So... you want an Escort with the Hull of a Cruiser? Yeah, that'll be balanced with regular paper Hull-Escorts.
Locking the Commander BOFF slot by Ship type is the best design decision Cryptic made in this game, it's the main rampart against STO becoming "Munchkins in Space Online".
Holographic, yes (although they conveniently seem to ignore the obvious related social issues). Androids, not so much. Data was a one-of, and not replicated in Picard's time. Data tried but failed.
Actually, they don't ignore the social issues, at least not in the lore (before everything got folded into the Academy lore quests). The novel Needs of the Many, plus the STO lore available, note that The Doctor (and the Soong Foundation I believe) went to court after Starfleet tried to take away his mobile emitter, with the case evolving into a class-action suit in favor of all sentient synthetics (to use a Mass Effect term).
The court ruled in favor, and worked with scientists to come up with a bunch of tests to determine when a hologram or android has become sentient (and thus deserving rights).
As for Data and positronic androids, true, Data is unique (at least as far a "Soong-type" androids are concerned), but he came back when his memories implanted in B-4 were retriggered. Needs of the Many has a whole chapter dedicated to that event.
Ok, ok, you don't want an Escort with the Hull of a Cruiser.
You want an Escort with the Hull, Crew, Device slots and most importantly full 8 Weapon Slots of a Cruiser.
You can make up any blurb about how it's supposed to be a new thing, completely different, but the stats don't lie, you're asking for a best of both worlds Ship, in true munchkin fashion.
I don't agree with the OP either, but can we agree to disagree without name-calling in public, please?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Try that memory thing again, that's exactly what you asked for:
Ok, ok, you don't want an Escort with the Hull of a Cruiser.
You want an Escort with the Hull, Crew, Device slots and most importantly full 8 Weapon Slots of a Cruiser.
You can make up any blurb about how it's supposed to be a new thing, completely different, but the stats don't lie, you're asking for a best of both worlds Ship, in true munchkin fashion.
As for the full 8 slots, the D'kora already has those and can load cannons. with battlemode it is second closest.
Actually, they don't ignore the social issues, at least not in the lore (before everything got folded into the Academy lore quests). The novel Needs of the Many, plus the STO lore available, note that The Doctor (and the Soong Foundation I believe) went to court after Starfleet tried to take away his mobile emitter, with the case evolving into a class-action suit in favor of all sentient synthetics (to use a Mass Effect term).
The court ruled in favor, and worked with scientists to come up with a bunch of tests to determine when a hologram or android has become sentient (and thus deserving rights).
As for Data and positronic androids, true, Data is unique (at least as far a "Soong-type" androids are concerned), but he came back when his memories implanted in B-4 were retriggered. Needs of the Many has a whole chapter dedicated to that event.
Books are not canon. Besides, that isn't the social issue I was talking about.
I meant the ramifications of sentient holograms coming into general use (as opposed to one-of situations like Data).
It is especially an issue in an environment where eugenics are outlawed. How can artificial or augmented humans be illegal to create, but artificial designer holograms or androids be perfectly legal to create?
And what are the ramifications of entering significant numbers of such beings into the labor force? How are they powered? If they use standard dilithium based power sources, what does that do with respect to the dilithium supply, which is always implied to be at least somewhat limited?
There are scads of science fiction works exploring the pitfalls of such technology becoming widespread and a reason why Data was a one-of in canon (well, two-of including Lore).
There are other issues for writers too... I wouldn't be completely surprised if the whole Data/ B-4 thing was to allow the possibility for Data to end up more 'mortal', so that if they did do another series further in the future, they wouldn't have to explain either the lack of Data or why he no longer looks like Brent Spiner. And if they didn't have that in their minds, they should have.
Comments
My mates did poke light fun at my love for the Intrepid Retro. Said it only had 3 Fore & Aft, but it's pretty. And is weak on Tactical, but it's pretty. LOL. They don't say that much when we're actually in an STF or Fleet event When she's all Beam Target Subsystems, Tractor's, Viral Matrix & Torp spreads locking down aggresives and shooting off heals. It's not a great mix yet, but its getting there.
I like the Intrepid for the Cmdr & Lt. Cmdr Sci and well it is cool looking! :P Pretty isn't the word I'd use! LOL! And well that brings me to an actual point. I hate giving real world money to PWE, but I like some of the things these so-called "pay to win" ships offer. But for me it usually ends up being "pay to drive yourself nuts obsessing over finding a build that does decent damage, doesn't get blown all to hell every three minutes and more importantly doesn't clash with preferred style of play or warm fuzzies regarding the franchise in general. You name it I've owned it, flown it or know someone personally who has. But again I digress.
I'm not experienced playing a Tactical Captain, yet. Probably going to have to roll up one or two sooner or later. But I know enough to know I don't know enough, ok. That's why I liked my Oddy's & D'kora and some of the KDF ships (and the Tholian's but I haven't had the pleasure to own one personally.) I liked them because they all seem to have that "and a" factor with a Lt Cmdr Tac and a Lt Tac, or Engy. Or the one's that have a Universal Station in whatever flavor. There IS always some compromise. I could go look at Wiki & DEv Blogs to quote specifics , but It's too damn late in the evening. Either you get where I'm going with this or you don't. You can hit a wood TRIBBLE with a hammer all day but that wont make it a nail
Take a deep breath, step back a bit and get back to basics. Brainstorming in broad strokes usually works best at first, especially if the committee's getting bogged down on specifics...
It's function seems straight forward and already agreed upon for the most part. A great big hulking beast meant to scare the bejeebers out of anyone in it's path before it ever gets in range to fire the first shot. Without going back and rehashing the how's & what-if's I'd say funtion is solid. What about form? True design brainstorming.
Nacelles? Two, Four, or None? (Personally never been a fan of the Three Nacelle's on the Gal-X. Looked bad-TRIBBLE for that one shining moment in All Good Things, but I really didn't "buy-it" Too Asymetrical and Tacked On.
Propulsion? Massive multiple redundant 25th century warp cores or something more exotic? Either option would make sense with the massive power drain of the broadside weaponry. Two things I'm thinking need more thought along those lines. Massive redundant cores would make one hell of a boom when the ship goes down. Exotic tech though would be something of a spoiler as to where the designs were initially taken from regardless of which faction actually brought them to fruition; Fed, KDF or non-aligned "other". Stick a pin in that for now.
Finally the singal most important part of the puzzle, regardless of of how it actually functions in-game the broadside volleys just have to be something "It's coming about again, charging weapons... Oh TRIBBLE, RUN AWAY" This IS the Magic Castle or Spaceship Earth of our traveling theme park of carnage. Regardless of what actual in-game mechanic actually is used so think BIG!
Here I'm personally thinking less of a swivel or gimbals arrangement or side-mounted cannons. More like a series of gun portals that glow menacingly and maybe buzz with arcing energy the moment it stops advancing forward and starts to target everything withing range... For sake of argument lets just say anything within 15 K, damage of course lessened for anything outside of the 10 k kill box. Then again I could see random crits on anything just outside the 15 k mark. Otherwise the all too mentioned quick and agile would really pose too much of a threat negating the whole shock-and-awe effect!
Here's the thing though with the over the top visuals fx... BOTH sides are glowing and buzzing with the promise of a quick and fiery messy death which one should the attackers focus fire on? Better make up your minds quick! The only one who really knows is the behemoth's captain and allies and until he pushes that button to commit there's still the problem of conventional weapons fore & aft and the rest of his team and/or close support craft/carrier pets. Yeah, I'm thinking along those lines too, maybe one or two hangars, no more. Possibly limited, slightly nerfed. Or maybe the ability to use special point-defense turrets that can only fire just before and just after the broadsides.
At the risk of sounding like a lunatic with a vision I'd like to invite this discussion and it's very brilliant and knowledgeable minds further down the path of madness beyond the realm of what's already been done in-game. Stop worrying about what color the officers' seat cushions should be dammit and think outside the box!
Think of the messiest, scariest most jaw-dropping deep-space slug-fest throw-down you've ever seen in any game, movie book or TV series and give it a name. Then amp it up a few notches.
It's the 25th Century and all the old familiar baddies are sitting down to the same table ready to carve big hunks out of our galaxy. The Oddy's & Borts and each faction's carriers or retrofits are not the latest & greatest anymore and they simply aren't going to stop the big bad's at the door or send them packing, at least not in a cost-effective way same with the new stuff from our own fleet shipyards.
A decisive victory should be Big, Ugly and Efficient
Savor the madness!
-OJD
Hell, lets just change the name of the game to 'Space Adventures Online'. because we're getting sooooo far from what is canon and what isn't.
Typhoon class? never heard of it, is that canon or yet another fan boy community botch job that is TRIBBLE this IP?
Starfleet did build massive ships which were called battleships for the war with the Concordium, but they stopped making these due to the massive cost involved.
Sov is the nearest thing Feds have to a battleship - see first contact.
or the Galaxy - see different time line.
I play this game because it's Star Trek, like alot of others.
We've already got silly pets running around starbases after certain Captains, we've got cross faction ships being used for starfleet missions. Federation officer flying about in a cardassian crusier completeing missions for the federation... Yeah as if that would ever happen.
Please PWE/Cryptic, try to keep as near as canon as you can. If you don't care about ships being canon in the game, please can i get a massive shadow crab cruiser ship
http://www.stowiki.org/Typhoon_Class_Battleship
1) The only Star Fleet dreadnought is only semi-official by way of the TOS Star Fleet Technical Manual and a very blurry image in one of the TOS movies, but it had 3 nacelles.
2) How can a dorsal nacelle make a ship asymmetrical? As for looking 'tacked on,' almost all Star Fleet nacelles are attached to the hull by pylons. Thus they all look 'tacked on.' The TOS connie is deliberately that way.
One, two, four has never made much sense to me in terms of ship design, especially when the first vessel we know of with four nacelles is the Stargazer, which is lower displacement than the two nacelle'd Galaxy.
I could see the ship appear asymmetrical from an off-center point of view. But yeah, technically not.
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LOL, yes, you can. You honestly have had no idea that you can trade boffs, have other people train them in LTC and CDR abilities, and then trade them back...?
Yup, and like every other ST:O battleship completely unprotected sides. Cannons tho powerful leave a battleship completely defenseless to a side attack, where a traditional battleship is most powerful.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Perhaps but what he said still holds: Yet another fan boy community botch job that is TRIBBLE this IP.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
So..... I take it there should be no ships in the IP at all? They were all new and never before seen once.
All arguments for Canon **** might be valid and worth something if the game wasn't set 30 years into the future from the last prime line....technically this is the new canon, as it is the only thing still representing the Prime Universe in lore.
not to mention they do their very best to give each "outside" ship I.E. Galor a backstory as to why they are being flown by federation characters.
Lol, I now know that you can, lol, but it is very lol... counter-intuitive, since, lol, normally you have to take them on as, lol, crew to train them, lol.
Once they are your, lol, crew, your options normally become discharge, promote, or lol, train, with no LOL way to move them back into your lol, pool.
So, sorry for my not realizing something the game doesn't actually tell you outright, implies strongly that it would not work (since once as crew BOffs seem bound), and that you would not know unless you got into a trade and tried it.
LOL.
Really guys? Guess it's just me. Port >> Starboard >> DORSAL?!? W/O Going completely geekazoid and bringing warp field dynamics, hull stress and structural integrity into the discussion. Three nacelles has never worked for me on a purely aesthetic basis.
@kimmera Bonus pts for bringing up Stagazer, forgot about that.
Oh and by the way, whens the last time you guys counted the nacelles on the multi-vecc's? LOL!
As to the cannon or IP-ness (lol Cryptic's phrase-ology, not mine!)
1) STO is set in the 25th century and the galaxy is at war so a lot has changed. Tech from other eras and races has been advanced and adapted. I'm sure we all use some of the M.A.C.O., Honor Guard or Borg tech, right? Transwarp jumps and Quantum Slipstreaam drives are used commonly, unless you prefer the slow boat to ESD? The small steps advancing androids, AI and holographic tech made by the TNG Enterprise crew and Voyager made photonic and android officers more commonplace etc etc.
2) It's a game and some concessions have to be made to appeal to the unwashed masses. Lockbox ships and vanity pets feed the devs and keep the PWE execs dressed in smart business suits, they aren't cheap.
The nacelles on Kirk's TOS Connie are attached to the secondary hull by sticks, and you are arguing against the Galaxy X's structural integrity? Really? And if warp drive required symmetry, why are the nacelles set so far back? Shouldn't they be centered front to back to ensure an even warp bubble?
Fair enough on not liking the aesthetics, though
Special case, but I consider that a silly ship anyway.
Holographic, yes (although they conveniently seem to ignore the obvious related social issues). Androids, not so much. Data was a one-of, and not replicated in Picard's time. Data tried but failed.
Luckily for the Klingons....
I wasn't prepared to go this far for lack of patience and the crayons, but let me paint a picture here... It won't be pretty.
It's war people, on several fronts.
Fed vs. KDF... Immaterial. Before the Khitomer Accords hostilities were nearly commonplace. Even before the Dominion war tensions were high there. The seemingly unprovoked attack on the Gorn homeworld was simply the last straw... or was it?
Romulans? Since the Hobus disaster their power base has been marginalized, they aren't a major player, now at least.
Dominion, Cardassians, and rogue groups like the True Way or the Orion Syndicate continue to be a growing concern.
Still there's a bigger picture.
The Borg have been spotted in every major sector in the galaxy and have taken whole worlds in the Gamma Oriana region as well as Deferra Prime and Kerrat. Special Task Forces of joint fleets both Fed & KDF, using very specialized weapons, tactics and ships of classified origin have been working diligently to contain these seemingly random instances of Borg incursions throughout the galaxy.
It seems like they're everywhere, either searching for, or running from something. Individuals liberated from the collective have not yet been able to shed any further light on this possibility.
Then there's disturbing reports of "Shapeshifters", imposters infiltrating the command structure of nearly every major player in the political structure of the galaxy. Contacts in both the KDF & Starfleet have ruled out the Founders, that leaves the Undine or Species 8472. Reports on their movements and motivations are sketchy at best, but up until recently it was believed they wanted only to be left alone in their dimension or "fluidic space"
So at the end of the day we have every major and minor aggressor in the galaxy potentially at each others throats, as it's so often been before for the last three hundred years or so. But we have two very powerful and unpredictable wild-cards; the Borg and Undine; who we know both have the abilities to transfer ships and personnel virtually any where, at any time, without warning almost instantly. And in the case of the Undine may be able to pose as any body.
So I ask you gentlemen & ladies... Captains... Vice Admirals and Lt. Generals... I ask you this. What do we do? What DO WE DO when forces both known and unknown are moving in on our respective territories... When every allegiance seems to be only a temporary cease-fire. Every sentient species capable of warp drive technology that has an axe to grind seems to be looking at his neighbor with an itchy trigger finger and it seems some unseen hand, claw or tendril is writing in big bold letter that we are bound for total war, what do we do?
We look at the facts as they are. Both threats; the Borg and the Undine can be traced back to the Delta Quadrant, I'm sure everyone can agree on that. I could point out records from the Enterprise D and Voyager supporting these facts, but I don't think I need to do that. Suffice it to say these are historical facts. Lets look more in depth into other historical facts of those eras in the past and those areas. Both ships have encountered many different races, some peaceful, some not. Many with technologies that were equal if not superior to our own at the time. All of these are historical facts, which can be researched in greater detail. Are you still with me? Superior technologies, superior firepower and yet we prevailed. Why? Because we had to.
So let me make this perfectly clear for those of you that are hard of hearing. I for one don't want to see my family or crew assimilated or replaced by some squishy quadruped in a god damn skin suit! Neither do I want to see them in the middle of a three way with Cardassian separatists, Breen raiders or Ferengi Pirates. Do you understand me now?
This committee will come to order, settle their differences and un-fu... remedy this situation immediately. We need a design that will totally demoralize the enemy. We need a threat of overwhelming, embarrassing defeat that will make the opportunistic profiteers think twice about stepping out of line and will beat the unknown invaders so bad their descendants will soil themselves when they hear about how we held the line, am I understood? If a delegate from the Tholian Assembly beams in and offers us a prototype for that damn web system that actually works someone here better damn well thank him and shake whatever appendage he offers, am I understood?
Until we have a working design agreed upon all other priorities are rescinded, all leaves cancelled. The replicators have been programmed to dispense nothing but basic .nutrients, black coffee and Raktajino.
Now please get back to work!
-OJD
Locking the Commander BOFF slot by Ship type is the best design decision Cryptic made in this game, it's the main rampart against STO becoming "Munchkins in Space Online".
Actually, they don't ignore the social issues, at least not in the lore (before everything got folded into the Academy lore quests). The novel Needs of the Many, plus the STO lore available, note that The Doctor (and the Soong Foundation I believe) went to court after Starfleet tried to take away his mobile emitter, with the case evolving into a class-action suit in favor of all sentient synthetics (to use a Mass Effect term).
The court ruled in favor, and worked with scientists to come up with a bunch of tests to determine when a hologram or android has become sentient (and thus deserving rights).
As for Data and positronic androids, true, Data is unique (at least as far a "Soong-type" androids are concerned), but he came back when his memories implanted in B-4 were retriggered. Needs of the Many has a whole chapter dedicated to that event.
Ok, ok, you don't want an Escort with the Hull of a Cruiser.
You want an Escort with the Hull, Crew, Device slots and most importantly full 8 Weapon Slots of a Cruiser.
You can make up any blurb about how it's supposed to be a new thing, completely different, but the stats don't lie, you're asking for a best of both worlds Ship, in true munchkin fashion.
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As for the full 8 slots, the D'kora already has those and can load cannons. with battlemode it is second closest.
Books are not canon. Besides, that isn't the social issue I was talking about.
I meant the ramifications of sentient holograms coming into general use (as opposed to one-of situations like Data).
It is especially an issue in an environment where eugenics are outlawed. How can artificial or augmented humans be illegal to create, but artificial designer holograms or androids be perfectly legal to create?
And what are the ramifications of entering significant numbers of such beings into the labor force? How are they powered? If they use standard dilithium based power sources, what does that do with respect to the dilithium supply, which is always implied to be at least somewhat limited?
There are scads of science fiction works exploring the pitfalls of such technology becoming widespread and a reason why Data was a one-of in canon (well, two-of including Lore).
There are other issues for writers too... I wouldn't be completely surprised if the whole Data/ B-4 thing was to allow the possibility for Data to end up more 'mortal', so that if they did do another series further in the future, they wouldn't have to explain either the lack of Data or why he no longer looks like Brent Spiner. And if they didn't have that in their minds, they should have.