Why do the transphasic toros even need a shield heal debuff? I don't recall any pve stuff this would be useful against.
99% of the stuff they post to Tribble gets pushed live Reguardless of feedback or testing so why bother whn you can just wait 2 days? A lot of valid concern is being expressed here with no explanation as to why they feel that chrono mines need 100% proc chance or why transphasic torps need a shield heal debuff.
Those effect pvp way more then pve and for absolutely no reason they're gonna be put in.
The Federation has adapted the ability in PVE to use Extend Shields. Not that it's very useful of them to do it. There is a PVE use. :P
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
10 million fleet credit limit is not nice for one-man fleets actually. They won't be able to build their starbase to Tear 5 if such a limit exists, unless they buy out stuff from their own fleet stores. Also, why have a 1 billion fleet mark limit if you can only have 10 million fleet credits ... ? That makes abso-loot-ly no sense at all.
Also, why are you limiting the source of your income? The players give you money, and you want it, so why limiting Dilithium to 10 million? I bet there are freaks out there who would want to have more than 10 million, I know it's silly, but why not the usual 1 billion limit for Refined Dilithium and Ore? You might lose money with that restriction, dear PWE.
PS: Let me guess .. the Dilithium Ore / Refined Dilthium limit has existed ever since on Holodeck, butt it was never mentioned since no player has ever hit that cap. And now, maybe some player(s) has(ve) reached that cap and started cumplaints because there was no mention of such a limitation ... right?
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Transphasics mines now do more damage and feel decent. I get around 5600 to hull with the new mines over 3800 with the old mines. (full volley hitting) Transphasics are pretty perfect now.
Breen cluster torpedo way better now. Nice DPS and damage and has not misfired once which is real nice to see.
Negatives
-DMG and other bonus are still broken. DMGx3 Tricobalt mine does the same damage as a DMGx1 Tricobalt. It looks like DMG and others do nothing. Not sure if Crit works fire either.
- Tricobalt mines and Tricobalt torpedo?s have a shared cooldown, can this be unlinked? Why can we not use the Tricobalt mines with Tricobalt torpedoes at the same time? I would love to have x2 torpedo and x2 Tricobalt mine is there a reason why they have a shared cooldown?
- Tricobalt mines are not classed as mines so you cannot use mixed mines Variable Geomety detonators to boost all mine damage. Well you can but the Tricobalt gain no extra damage from 17% to all mine damage.
EDIT: Concentrated Tachyoun Mines now only drop 4 mines and have no damage numbers no refrence to these in patch notes.
What PvErs don't understand here is that the issue isn't as much to do with balance (though it does play a part) as much as it is to do with fun.
Spam isn't fun.
With these changes, if you aren't running chroniton and/or transphasic mines on basically every member of your team (besides possibly the escort) you're putting yourself at a disadvantage.
The ability to debuff shield healing is a good idea, but would work better as a Boff ability or weapon proc. Tying it to spam and encouraging yet more spam in the process is unfortunate.
Between this and a little help from MWO, I think Cryptic will finally succeed in driving out the last remnants of the once vibrant PvP population.
If You're going to increase disables on mines are you going to fix the weapons glitch beforehand on holodeck, or just realease the increase to holodeck????? hmm?? . ref.->>> http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=332961
What PvErs don't understand here is that the issue isn't as much to do with balance (though it does play a part) as much as it is to do with fun.
Spam isn't fun.
With these changes, if you aren't running chroniton and/or transphasic mines on basically every member of your team (besides possibly the escort) you're putting yourself at a disadvantage.
The ability to debuff shield healing is a good idea, but would work better as a Boff ability or weapon proc. Tying it to spam and encouraging yet more spam in the process is unfortunate.
Between this and a little help from MWO, I think Cryptic will finally succeed in driving out the last remnants of the once vibrant PvP population.
I totally agree with this statement , You guys should actually play the game before you make changes like this when they are "working" atleast somewhat as is , What was it bort said, cut twice? 3 times? measure later? no thats not right . Alot of players are getting flat out sick of it . correct whats wrong first before bringing in more stupidity. Oh and people don't pvp because of TRIBBLE like this. too many exploitable procs off otherwise useless weapons "team effort abuse" repulsor lag and the list goes on. . you're killing gameplay in both PVE and PVP . less cheese plz please please pretty please? I'm begging here.
This seems TRIBBLE-backwards. Fleet Credits should have a higher limit than Fleet Marks. Most people in the game have a low balance of Fleet Marks and a high balance of Fleet Credits. My own FC balance is over 1 million, and my starbase is only Tier 1. I'll hit a 10 million cap long before our starbase reaches T4, let alone T5.
I believe that's to ALLOW EVERYONE in the fleet the chance to participate and not just a few.
I've forwarded this information on to our UI guy and we'll have this change reverted.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks,
I bind mouse 4 to distribute shields.... I was up in arms until I read this post. 4 and 5 generally work with the forward and back buttons on Logitech mice.
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
I've forwarded this information on to our UI guy and we'll have this change reverted.
Thanks for the info.
my logitec G700 has 11 buttons, but i have most of them set to keyboard keys with the setpoint software, as having them set to button 4-11 was always kind of buggy in most games. pushing a button on the mouse is as reliable as pushing a button on the keyboard now, i suspect this could at least a workaround for many button mouse users, and it just works better imo.
also have 2 button profiles for gaming and general use, for gaming the scroll sensitivity is turned way down and the buttons are all keyboard commands. general use has back and forward, refresh and a must more sensitive scroll, etc...
I noticed an error in the above patch notes when going back over the Mine Changes. It should read:
- Chroniton Mines' chance to proc its slow debuff was increased from 33% to 80%
Stating that the proc chance was 100% was, in fact, an error taken from earlier testing before the chance was reduced back to 80%. The current changes on Tribble include the correct 80% proc chance.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
C-store items now have a confirmation prompt when attempting to discard them.
Updated the tooltips for Fleet Assets and Dilithium to indicate their limits.
Fleet Credits, Refined Dilithium, and Dilithium Ore are limited to 10 million each.
Fleet Marks is limited to 1 billion.
You need to add a confirmation to opening crates from lock boxes as well. I opened a ship on accident because of this. I didn't want it. I wanted to link it in the chat box. I am used to "double Clicking".
Why the caps on Dilithium and such? I think its bogus, just like the EC cap...
Also, the leader-board needs to be fixed to properly show the contributions in fleet credits "Per Project" like the Season 6 notes stated, not the overall someone has earned. It should also be an option in the permissions so the Admins can set who sees it anyways...
I noticed an error in the above patch notes when going back over the Mine Changes. It should read:
- Chroniton Mines' chance to proc its slow debuff was increased from 33% to 80%
Stating that the proc chance was 100% was, in fact, an error taken from earlier testing before the chance was reduced back to 80%. The current changes on Tribble include the correct 80% proc chance.
I updated the patch notes to include this correction.
Again, please don't remove the mouse button options. I have a mouse with extra buttons also and have them mapped to ingame functions. Also please asap fix the uniform bugs. And if possible, please change the fire extinguishers so they do not function out of missions... please.
Mouse buttons 4 and 5 also work fine on Microsoft mice so unless Cryptic are using a random noname Big Lots mouse for testing, it seems odd to remove the ability to use those binds. For many people this will make the game unplayable for a week unless we get an emergency Midnight patch on Thursday fixing this bug.
I totally agree with this statement , You guys should actually play the game before you make changes like this when they are "working" atleast somewhat as is , What was it bort said, cut twice? 3 times? measure later? no thats not right . Alot of players are getting flat out sick of it . correct whats wrong first before bringing in more stupidity. Oh and people don't pvp because of TRIBBLE like this. too many exploitable procs off otherwise useless weapons "team effort abuse" repulsor lag and the list goes on. . you're killing gameplay in both PVE and PVP . less cheese plz please please pretty please? I'm begging here.
Glad that some people can understand.
Transphasic mines are the most bewildering. Shield healing debuff is only useful in PvP, but the PvP community doesn't want more spam. Cutting shield healing in half is incredibly powerful. Ironic thing is that I think most PvPers would love to see a shield healing debuff ability that isn't tied to spam and needs to be used strategically.
I noticed an error in the above patch notes when going back over the Mine Changes. It should read:
- Chroniton Mines' chance to proc its slow debuff was increased from 33% to 80%
Stating that the proc chance was 100% was, in fact, an error taken from earlier testing before the chance was reduced back to 80%. The current changes on Tribble include the correct 80% proc chance.
ok thats much more reasonable. 66% would have been better though...
I noticed an error in the above patch notes when going back over the Mine Changes. It should read:
- Chroniton Mines' chance to proc its slow debuff was increased from 33% to 80%
Stating that the proc chance was 100% was, in fact, an error taken from earlier testing before the chance was reduced back to 80%. The current changes on Tribble include the correct 80% proc chance.
Ok, that's good. That basically makes chronitons probably at most as good as they were (depending how things scale with skill point investment, which will need testing) before but with 4/5 the mines.
Now if you could only take out the 50% shield debuffs from transphasics and, say, make it a commander level bridge officer skill we'd be rolling. Shield healing debuff is a great idea, but tying it to spam just isn't the way to go. Tying anything powerful to spam will hurt PvP.
With the current implementation PvP teams will just saturate the field with transphasics. It's too good not to. You're basically doubling the damage output of your team by keeping the other side's shield healing permanently weakened.
Transphasics without the debuff would still be a far better choice than any other mine type save possibly chronitons. The idea is that you can do enough trickle damage through shields to eventually force the enemy team to expend heals on themselves and weaken spike healing.
Rather than be saturation weapons though, it would be far better if mines were situational and tactical. For example, if every launcher launched only one significantly upscaled mine we would reduce a great deal of spam and gameplay would be more thoughtful.
Last but not least, a 10% damage buff to tricolbalts is not going to make them viable. People used to use these mines back in the day, and now nobody who knows anything does. People whined about the extent of the disable, but for pete's sake the mine only fired every minute and was targetable. Balance was pretty much perfect -- high cost, hard to pull off, but great effects when used well. As it stands, if the long disable is deemed to be undesirable, then the cool-down should be halved. Even then, I probably wouldn't use them myself.
So, Transphasic Torpedoes still deal 40% direct damage to the hull, not 80% ... that's just the Transphasic Mines, right? If the torps would deal 80% as well, they would be purrfectly balanced because of the very slow recharge rate of 10 seconds and the lowest base damage of all torps.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Fanastic... more spam. These mines are becoming extremely annoying in PVP.
If the PVP system was fixed these changes wouldn't have been made
I am normally quite a supporter of Cryptic, but I'm getting sick of waiting around for PVP fixes, which are not happening.
As a result of applying these PVE updates the PVP system is subsequently becoming more damaged and unplayable. There seems to be no regard for PVP as these PVE updates are continually being introduced.
Additionally there has been no further ground fixes for the Omega set, stackable orbital strikes and several other issues for PVP and PVE ground play.
The claim that there will be a new pvp system that will be introduced with "new Tech" could take months if not over a year due to the fact there is only a "25% player base for pvp". The only reason the player base is that low is because of problems introduced by pve.
So please stop breaking the current PVP system with PVE updates.
*sigh* I've had my rant, hope you take some of this one board
Fanastic... more spam. These mines are becoming extremely annoying in PVP.
If the PVP system was fixed these changes wouldn't have been made
I am normally quite a supporter of Cryptic, but I'm getting sick of waiting around for PVP fixes, which are not happening.
As a result of applying these PVE updates the PVP system is subsequently becoming more damaged and unplayable. There seems to be no regard for PVP as these PVE updates are continually being introduced.
Additionally there has been no further ground fixes for the Omega set, stackable orbital strikes and several other issues for PVP and PVE ground play.
The claim that there will be a new pvp system that will be introduced with "new Tech" could take months if not over a year due to the fact there is only a "25% player base for pvp". The only reason the player base is that low is because of problems introduced by pve.
So please stop breaking the current PVP system with PVE updates.
*sigh* I've had my rant, hope you take some of this one board
If it makes you feel any better, Borticus said this:
Comments
The Federation has adapted the ability in PVE to use Extend Shields. Not that it's very useful of them to do it. There is a PVE use. :P
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Also, why are you limiting the source of your income? The players give you money, and you want it, so why limiting Dilithium to 10 million? I bet there are freaks out there who would want to have more than 10 million, I know it's silly, but why not the usual 1 billion limit for Refined Dilithium and Ore? You might lose money with that restriction, dear PWE.
PS: Let me guess .. the Dilithium Ore / Refined Dilthium limit has existed ever since on Holodeck, butt it was never mentioned since no player has ever hit that cap. And now, maybe some player(s) has(ve) reached that cap and started cumplaints because there was no mention of such a limitation ... right?
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Transphasics mines now do more damage and feel decent. I get around 5600 to hull with the new mines over 3800 with the old mines. (full volley hitting) Transphasics are pretty perfect now.
Breen cluster torpedo way better now. Nice DPS and damage and has not misfired once which is real nice to see.
Negatives
-DMG and other bonus are still broken. DMGx3 Tricobalt mine does the same damage as a DMGx1 Tricobalt. It looks like DMG and others do nothing. Not sure if Crit works fire either.
- Tricobalt mines and Tricobalt torpedo?s have a shared cooldown, can this be unlinked? Why can we not use the Tricobalt mines with Tricobalt torpedoes at the same time? I would love to have x2 torpedo and x2 Tricobalt mine is there a reason why they have a shared cooldown?
- Tricobalt mines are not classed as mines so you cannot use mixed mines Variable Geomety detonators to boost all mine damage. Well you can but the Tricobalt gain no extra damage from 17% to all mine damage.
EDIT: Concentrated Tachyoun Mines now only drop 4 mines and have no damage numbers no refrence to these in patch notes.
Spam isn't fun.
With these changes, if you aren't running chroniton and/or transphasic mines on basically every member of your team (besides possibly the escort) you're putting yourself at a disadvantage.
The ability to debuff shield healing is a good idea, but would work better as a Boff ability or weapon proc. Tying it to spam and encouraging yet more spam in the process is unfortunate.
Between this and a little help from MWO, I think Cryptic will finally succeed in driving out the last remnants of the once vibrant PvP population.
I totally agree with this statement , You guys should actually play the game before you make changes like this when they are "working" atleast somewhat as is , What was it bort said, cut twice? 3 times? measure later? no thats not right . Alot of players are getting flat out sick of it . correct whats wrong first before bringing in more stupidity. Oh and people don't pvp because of TRIBBLE like this. too many exploitable procs off otherwise useless weapons "team effort abuse" repulsor lag and the list goes on. . you're killing gameplay in both PVE and PVP . less cheese plz please please pretty please? I'm begging here.
I believe that's to ALLOW EVERYONE in the fleet the chance to participate and not just a few.
??? What do you mean non-functional. I'm using it on my Logitech MX-518 mouse.
~ I don't want the world... I just want your half!
I've forwarded this information on to our UI guy and we'll have this change reverted.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks,
I bind mouse 4 to distribute shields.... I was up in arms until I read this post. 4 and 5 generally work with the forward and back buttons on Logitech mice.
my logitec G700 has 11 buttons, but i have most of them set to keyboard keys with the setpoint software, as having them set to button 4-11 was always kind of buggy in most games. pushing a button on the mouse is as reliable as pushing a button on the keyboard now, i suspect this could at least a workaround for many button mouse users, and it just works better imo.
also have 2 button profiles for gaming and general use, for gaming the scroll sensitivity is turned way down and the buttons are all keyboard commands. general use has back and forward, refresh and a must more sensitive scroll, etc...
- Chroniton Mines' chance to proc its slow debuff was increased from 33% to 80%
Stating that the proc chance was 100% was, in fact, an error taken from earlier testing before the chance was reduced back to 80%. The current changes on Tribble include the correct 80% proc chance.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
You need to add a confirmation to opening crates from lock boxes as well. I opened a ship on accident because of this. I didn't want it. I wanted to link it in the chat box. I am used to "double Clicking".
Why the caps on Dilithium and such? I think its bogus, just like the EC cap...
Also, the leader-board needs to be fixed to properly show the contributions in fleet credits "Per Project" like the Season 6 notes stated, not the overall someone has earned. It should also be an option in the permissions so the Admins can set who sees it anyways...
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
I don't know whats borked about it. Seems to work well.
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
I updated the patch notes to include this correction.
Glad that some people can understand.
Transphasic mines are the most bewildering. Shield healing debuff is only useful in PvP, but the PvP community doesn't want more spam. Cutting shield healing in half is incredibly powerful. Ironic thing is that I think most PvPers would love to see a shield healing debuff ability that isn't tied to spam and needs to be used strategically.
Original Handle: @Q400
Join Date: December 2010
ok thats much more reasonable. 66% would have been better though...
OK i only see one ground item in this fix, so i have a few questions,
Can you please answer these questions?
Ok, that's good. That basically makes chronitons probably at most as good as they were (depending how things scale with skill point investment, which will need testing) before but with 4/5 the mines.
Now if you could only take out the 50% shield debuffs from transphasics and, say, make it a commander level bridge officer skill we'd be rolling. Shield healing debuff is a great idea, but tying it to spam just isn't the way to go. Tying anything powerful to spam will hurt PvP.
With the current implementation PvP teams will just saturate the field with transphasics. It's too good not to. You're basically doubling the damage output of your team by keeping the other side's shield healing permanently weakened.
Transphasics without the debuff would still be a far better choice than any other mine type save possibly chronitons. The idea is that you can do enough trickle damage through shields to eventually force the enemy team to expend heals on themselves and weaken spike healing.
Rather than be saturation weapons though, it would be far better if mines were situational and tactical. For example, if every launcher launched only one significantly upscaled mine we would reduce a great deal of spam and gameplay would be more thoughtful.
Last but not least, a 10% damage buff to tricolbalts is not going to make them viable. People used to use these mines back in the day, and now nobody who knows anything does. People whined about the extent of the disable, but for pete's sake the mine only fired every minute and was targetable. Balance was pretty much perfect -- high cost, hard to pull off, but great effects when used well. As it stands, if the long disable is deemed to be undesirable, then the cool-down should be halved. Even then, I probably wouldn't use them myself.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
If the PVP system was fixed these changes wouldn't have been made
I am normally quite a supporter of Cryptic, but I'm getting sick of waiting around for PVP fixes, which are not happening.
As a result of applying these PVE updates the PVP system is subsequently becoming more damaged and unplayable. There seems to be no regard for PVP as these PVE updates are continually being introduced.
Additionally there has been no further ground fixes for the Omega set, stackable orbital strikes and several other issues for PVP and PVE ground play.
The claim that there will be a new pvp system that will be introduced with "new Tech" could take months if not over a year due to the fact there is only a "25% player base for pvp". The only reason the player base is that low is because of problems introduced by pve.
So please stop breaking the current PVP system with PVE updates.
*sigh* I've had my rant, hope you take some of this one board
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5086841#post5086841
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.