Whislt PWE/Cryptic may be the only vendor selling virtual EV suits for STO, it's not the suits are a limited run (i.e. only 100 available) - they easily churn out more of these for at no cost to them.
Therefore, as has been stated, the supply is effectively infinite, but the pricing is ridiculous.
Welcome to EVgate.
Laws of thermodynamics as applied to life: 0 - You must play the game. 1 - You can't win. 2 - You can't break even. 3 - You can't quit.
You do not consider patented or copyrighted IPs 'scarce?'
Why do companies fight tooth and nail for strong patent and copyright laws if they provide no advantage? By being able to gain 100% (or nigh 100%) control over supply, they create scarcity.
If the IP in question was not thus scarce, anyone could produce it. I could, you could... PWE would have nothing to sell, since we would all just produce our own.
The inputs for the Mona Lisa were not scarce. Leonardo could have painted dozens of them if he so wished. He did not, and thus his painting is valued rather highly indeed, irrespective of the fact that he could have painted many of them.
I notice though that you are talking about 'within the game economy.' These are not goods solely within the game economy. The C store uses real money and thus is part of the entire economy. These purchases are not merely competing with what is for sale in STO but with everything else that money can be spent on.
Even within the game economy though they are also competing with other free (or effectively free) EVA suits, as well as other costume options and every other drop or C store item in game.
No offense, but it is pretty clear you have not even familiarized yourself with the basics of the terminology being discussed. Scarce resources does not mean rare resources. The materials that Leonardo used were scarce. Scarce means that:
1) The supply is not effectively infinite (for instance, for all intents and purposes breathable atmosphere is usually an infinite resource unless you are underwater or something).
2) The supply has value (dog TRIBBLE are a finite resource, but they have no value).
So yes, paint and canvas represent scarce products, because there is a finite amount of paint and canvas on Earth and it has value.
I am discussing the game's economy because that is what the OP was referring to. The economics of the game industry on the other hand would deal with games as a whole product and not individual microtransactions within a game.
I am trying to be polite, but I really dislike it when people try to argue about a subject without even doing the basic research to get a handle on what is being discussed with at least a high school level of understanding.
I mean, you are trying to argue about whether something is a scarce resource without bothering to spend ten minutes on wikipedia learning about what scarce means to economists and just assuming because you know how it is used colloquially that you are competent to extrapolate. It is like the people who say, "evolution is only a theory." Well, that is true, but so is gravity and the shape of the earth. Scientists use the word theory differently than how laymen tend to use it and economists use the term scarce differently than laymen as well.
If you guys feel that it's not worth 7 dollars. Then just don't buy it. Truth is it's called supply and demand. If there is not much demand for it, the price will go down. If you guys don't feel it's worth it to you, then just don't purchase it. Thats really the most effective way you guys can speak your mind. Making rants about it on forums is not really that effective.
Truth is it's called a rip off.
You don't really understand what supply and demand means do you?
Their supply is limitless, so according to supply and demand, according to your own apologist excuse making logic, the prices should be rock bottom, from the start.
2nd, How do you establish the demand by going over your previous prices for larger purchases? These suits cost more than some ships! You can get all of the Jupiter pieces for 500z. Account wide!
Truth is, most people will vote with their wallets, but that in no way, removes the value of speaking out as to why, and warning others to do the same. All you care about, is not having to resist the urge to read threads you don't like and decided to rant about ranting.
But thank you for taking a vocal stand against the wrong side. I'm sure PWE appreciates it.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
No offense, but it is pretty clear you have not even familiarized yourself with the basics of the terminology being discussed. Scarce resources does not mean rare resources. The materials that Leonardo used were scarce. Scarce means that:
1) The supply is not effectively infinite (for instance, for all intents and purposes breathable atmosphere is usually an infinite resource unless you are underwater or something).
2) The supply has value (dog TRIBBLE are a finite resource, but they have no value).
So yes, paint and canvas represent scarce products, because there is a finite amount of paint and canvas on Earth and it has value.
I am discussing the game's economy because that is what the OP was referring to. The economics of the game industry on the other hand would deal with games as a whole product and not individual microtransactions within a game.
I am trying to be polite, but I really dislike it when people try to argue about a subject without even doing the basic research to get a handle on what is being discussed with at least a high school level of understanding.
I mean, you are trying to argue about whether something is a scarce resource without bothering to spend ten minutes on wikipedia learning about what scarce means to economists and just assuming because you know how it is used colloquially that you are competent to extrapolate. It is like the people who say, "evolution is only a theory." Well, that is true, but so is gravity and the shape of the earth. Scientists use the word theory differently than how laymen tend to use it and economists use the term scarce differently than laymen as well.
So basically, your entire self congratulatory counter argument, is a strawman over semantics.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
Right. And one issue with this suit is that it isn't even self-competitive.
The value is lower than comparable C-Store items and in-game items.
If you want a good EV suit, sell 2 master keys on the exchange. Then buy a boatload of Tholian Reward Crate Advanced. Open them. You will get the full Tholian ground set and some change most likely.
Cryptic overvalued EV suits in the Dilithium Mining store and they're overvaluing them again with this item.
I think I get what they want:
They want a ground combat monetization stream as lucrative as ships.
That won't happen with an account unlock because the market won't bear $25 costume packs outside of the labor intensive bundles.
So they're looking at $7 per character unlocks.
The problem is that this isn't succeeding at being that. It fails to account for BOs. It isn't mechanically novel.
I TOTALLY think this game needs a ground monetization stream that rivals ships. I ABSOLUTELY do. But I think Cryptic is doing it wrong and needs to take some feedback here when virtually any proposal any player has come up with on here would be enough to sway some of the critics.
I'd be all for a 700 point per character bundle with a costume and a functional item that does something in-game items don't typically do. THAT is what the ground counterpart to ship sales would be.
The suit does not function as a costume because you have to wear it. It has no mechanical novelty. Therefore, it's NOT the counterpart to a ship that provides a costume and a special power console.
Which is what it needs to be at 700 ZEN per character.
I absolutely agree !
A ship is the other 50% part of your character, it has so much more value in terms of gameplay ( and all the things one does around his ship - style, equipment, bridges ) than one single EV suit.
It is pretty laughable that, after the fanbase raised hell over realizing that some Fleet ships would cost 2,000 Zen in Fleet Ship Modules and would be per-character unlocks, they proceed to release an EVA Suit that is 700 Zen and a per-character unlock/single item.
All of the active members in my little fleet have spent significant amounts of money on the game--all but one of the active members have lifetime memberships, purchased after F2P, and all of us have many C-Store ships unlocked. I have spent more money on STO than on any other single software, whether for business or for pleasure. Yet, it is highly unlikely that ANY of us are going to purchase this item.
I think a combination of forum comments AND "voting with our wallets" WILL send PWE a message. Words + Action = Making a Point.
*shrugs* It's an easy decision for me, anyway. I like the look of the EVA Suit, but not enough to spend 700 Zen.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
A ship is the other 50% part of your character, it has so much more value in terms of gameplay ( and all the things one does around his ship - style, equipment, bridges ) than one single EV suit.
Cheers,
Maledicus
I favor a 700 C-Point bundle.
With it, you get a box that can be sold or traded.
Open the box? You get a costume.
With that costume, you get:
An EV suit (bound).
A weapon (bound).
OR
A universal kit (bound).
I prefer x5 because if BOs can equip, you should get enough for your BOs.
It should have a stat or a use effect that is novel. On par with a ship special console or interesting ship build.
In general, for per character unlocks, my preference would be for kits + costume.
Imagine:
Dixon Hill costume with photonic tommygun that does physical damage as a ranged melee weapon. (Fedoras for species with a restricted head size. Heck, let people select fedora as a head type for aliens and restrict their headsize when they choose it.)
Dr. Crusher style medical lapcoat with uniform top. Comes with a kit that summons "Medical Team" (like Security Team but with the nurses that Nurse DOffs cause to spawn), a Medical Fabrication Bunker kit, Medical Generator Fabrication, and Hypospray - Cordrazine (which would act similar to the Science Hyposprays).
Gladiator pack. Comes with a Roman-style costume: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Welldoaspecial.jpg
Also comes with sword and shield (Ultra Rare quality) with a mix of exploit (sword), stun (shield), chance to deflect attacks, and mods on the weapon that are something like "Dmgx2, +HPP, +HP."
Ferengi pack. Comes with a proper Ferengi outfit, including big lapels. Comes with a purple quality energy whip with a stun effect and a device that acts as a ground version of the Azura comm code, summoning a Rom-like Ferengi in the creature pose who fetches things for you.
Pakled pack. Comes with a Pakled outfit. Includes a kit which revolves entirely around summoning engineers who help you out with effects that sometimes backfire. It's an engineering kit that is perfect for non-engineers.
Heck... I could see it being big if they just made each pack a combination of:
1. A costume.
2. A kit with the costume that would normally be class locked but the version that comes with the costume isn't and may have some cosmetic tweaking (ie. what the fabrications/security escorts look like). The kit itself doesn't have to be new except that the C-Store version is thematically named and has no class restrictions.
3. A weapon that ties into the costume.
I would easily pay 700 ZEN per character for a bundle with that combination in it or 2500 ZEN accountwide if it were well done.
No offense, but it is pretty clear you have not even familiarized yourself with the basics of the terminology being discussed. Scarce resources does not mean rare resources. The materials that Leonardo used were scarce. Scarce means that:
1) The supply is not effectively infinite (for instance, for all intents and purposes breathable atmosphere is usually an infinite resource unless you are underwater or something).
2) The supply has value (dog TRIBBLE are a finite resource, but they have no value).
So yes, paint and canvas represent scarce products, because there is a finite amount of paint and canvas on Earth and it has value.
So there is an infinite supply of IP rights with respect to Trek related merchandise? The value of the Mona Lisa is based almost entirely on Da Vinci's skill, not on the scarcity of the canvas or paints or brushes.
There are other paintings from that period that are valuable, but are not considered as valuable as the Mona Lisa, despite using the same paints and canvas.
I am discussing the game's economy because that is what the OP was referring to. The economics of the game industry on the other hand would deal with games as a whole product and not individual microtransactions within a game.
In other words, rather than actually respond to my counter, you are saying my argument does not fit the straw man the OP has set up.
I am trying to be polite, but I really dislike it when people try to argue about a subject without even doing the basic research to get a handle on what is being discussed with at least a high school level of understanding.
I mean, you are trying to argue about whether something is a scarce resource without bothering to spend ten minutes on wikipedia learning about what scarce means to economists and just assuming because you know how it is used colloquially that you are competent to extrapolate. It is like the people who say, "evolution is only a theory." Well, that is true, but so is gravity and the shape of the earth. Scientists use the word theory differently than how laymen tend to use it and economists use the term scarce differently than laymen as well.
And you are arguing that the value of the Mona Lisa has nothing to do with Leonardo's ability to paint or the fact he limited supply and is almost entirely based on the value of the paints and canvas used.
And as for theories, suggesting that economics can be fully understood just from Wikipedia presents an interesting theory, but I suggest you take some further courses. Or actual courses for that matter. Suggesting that monopolies are somehow immune to supply and demand due to a lack of scarcity is like saying that you have a monopoly that owns the right to breath the Earth's atmosphere. If there is no scarcity, there is no product over which there can be a monopoly.
By the way, how is the shape of the Earth 'theoretical?' We have satellite mapping now. Gravity is similarly only theoretical to the extent they are uncertain of the precise equations. They are certain there is some force they call 'gravity' but its precise nature remains theoretical.
Comments
Whislt PWE/Cryptic may be the only vendor selling virtual EV suits for STO, it's not the suits are a limited run (i.e. only 100 available) - they easily churn out more of these for at no cost to them.
Therefore, as has been stated, the supply is effectively infinite, but the pricing is ridiculous.
Welcome to EVgate.
No offense, but it is pretty clear you have not even familiarized yourself with the basics of the terminology being discussed. Scarce resources does not mean rare resources. The materials that Leonardo used were scarce. Scarce means that:
1) The supply is not effectively infinite (for instance, for all intents and purposes breathable atmosphere is usually an infinite resource unless you are underwater or something).
2) The supply has value (dog TRIBBLE are a finite resource, but they have no value).
So yes, paint and canvas represent scarce products, because there is a finite amount of paint and canvas on Earth and it has value.
I am discussing the game's economy because that is what the OP was referring to. The economics of the game industry on the other hand would deal with games as a whole product and not individual microtransactions within a game.
I am trying to be polite, but I really dislike it when people try to argue about a subject without even doing the basic research to get a handle on what is being discussed with at least a high school level of understanding.
I mean, you are trying to argue about whether something is a scarce resource without bothering to spend ten minutes on wikipedia learning about what scarce means to economists and just assuming because you know how it is used colloquially that you are competent to extrapolate. It is like the people who say, "evolution is only a theory." Well, that is true, but so is gravity and the shape of the earth. Scientists use the word theory differently than how laymen tend to use it and economists use the term scarce differently than laymen as well.
Truth is it's called a rip off.
You don't really understand what supply and demand means do you?
Their supply is limitless, so according to supply and demand, according to your own apologist excuse making logic, the prices should be rock bottom, from the start.
2nd, How do you establish the demand by going over your previous prices for larger purchases? These suits cost more than some ships! You can get all of the Jupiter pieces for 500z. Account wide!
Truth is, most people will vote with their wallets, but that in no way, removes the value of speaking out as to why, and warning others to do the same. All you care about, is not having to resist the urge to read threads you don't like and decided to rant about ranting.
But thank you for taking a vocal stand against the wrong side. I'm sure PWE appreciates it.
So basically, your entire self congratulatory counter argument, is a strawman over semantics.
I absolutely agree !
A ship is the other 50% part of your character, it has so much more value in terms of gameplay ( and all the things one does around his ship - style, equipment, bridges ) than one single EV suit.
Cheers,
Maledicus
All of the active members in my little fleet have spent significant amounts of money on the game--all but one of the active members have lifetime memberships, purchased after F2P, and all of us have many C-Store ships unlocked. I have spent more money on STO than on any other single software, whether for business or for pleasure. Yet, it is highly unlikely that ANY of us are going to purchase this item.
I think a combination of forum comments AND "voting with our wallets" WILL send PWE a message. Words + Action = Making a Point.
*shrugs* It's an easy decision for me, anyway. I like the look of the EVA Suit, but not enough to spend 700 Zen.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
I favor a 700 C-Point bundle.
With it, you get a box that can be sold or traded.
Open the box? You get a costume.
With that costume, you get:
An EV suit (bound).
A weapon (bound).
OR
A universal kit (bound).
I prefer x5 because if BOs can equip, you should get enough for your BOs.
It should have a stat or a use effect that is novel. On par with a ship special console or interesting ship build.
In general, for per character unlocks, my preference would be for kits + costume.
Imagine:
Dixon Hill costume with photonic tommygun that does physical damage as a ranged melee weapon. (Fedoras for species with a restricted head size. Heck, let people select fedora as a head type for aliens and restrict their headsize when they choose it.)
Dr. Crusher style medical lapcoat with uniform top. Comes with a kit that summons "Medical Team" (like Security Team but with the nurses that Nurse DOffs cause to spawn), a Medical Fabrication Bunker kit, Medical Generator Fabrication, and Hypospray - Cordrazine (which would act similar to the Science Hyposprays).
Gladiator pack. Comes with a Roman-style costume: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Welldoaspecial.jpg
Also comes with sword and shield (Ultra Rare quality) with a mix of exploit (sword), stun (shield), chance to deflect attacks, and mods on the weapon that are something like "Dmgx2, +HPP, +HP."
Ferengi pack. Comes with a proper Ferengi outfit, including big lapels. Comes with a purple quality energy whip with a stun effect and a device that acts as a ground version of the Azura comm code, summoning a Rom-like Ferengi in the creature pose who fetches things for you.
Pakled pack. Comes with a Pakled outfit. Includes a kit which revolves entirely around summoning engineers who help you out with effects that sometimes backfire. It's an engineering kit that is perfect for non-engineers.
1. A costume.
2. A kit with the costume that would normally be class locked but the version that comes with the costume isn't and may have some cosmetic tweaking (ie. what the fabrications/security escorts look like). The kit itself doesn't have to be new except that the C-Store version is thematically named and has no class restrictions.
3. A weapon that ties into the costume.
I would easily pay 700 ZEN per character for a bundle with that combination in it or 2500 ZEN accountwide if it were well done.
So there is an infinite supply of IP rights with respect to Trek related merchandise? The value of the Mona Lisa is based almost entirely on Da Vinci's skill, not on the scarcity of the canvas or paints or brushes.
There are other paintings from that period that are valuable, but are not considered as valuable as the Mona Lisa, despite using the same paints and canvas.
In other words, rather than actually respond to my counter, you are saying my argument does not fit the straw man the OP has set up.
And you are arguing that the value of the Mona Lisa has nothing to do with Leonardo's ability to paint or the fact he limited supply and is almost entirely based on the value of the paints and canvas used.
And as for theories, suggesting that economics can be fully understood just from Wikipedia presents an interesting theory, but I suggest you take some further courses. Or actual courses for that matter. Suggesting that monopolies are somehow immune to supply and demand due to a lack of scarcity is like saying that you have a monopoly that owns the right to breath the Earth's atmosphere. If there is no scarcity, there is no product over which there can be a monopoly.
By the way, how is the shape of the Earth 'theoretical?' We have satellite mapping now. Gravity is similarly only theoretical to the extent they are uncertain of the precise equations. They are certain there is some force they call 'gravity' but its precise nature remains theoretical.