The fleet naausican escort is actually pretty badass. I plan on getting one, and I am naming it Death Piranha. (renaming my karfi to Death Catfish) actually I -really- like the fleet nausicaan ship.
Also the feds have plenty of garbage choices. Ever hear of the two galaxy cruisers, and starcruiser? :P
Then you have the DSSV which is trash compared to the other sci ships. (both kdf and fed)
Then there's the Fleet Cruisers the feds got which are Fucklulz every last one of them.
The Voquv imo is a slightly better carrier than the Atrox, as is the Karfi, to the Akira.
The klinks also have the best dps sci ships in the game... The Heghta and Brel. (no they aren't tac ships, I don't care how many good "one shotters" there are in bops. they could do that just as well, in a Raptor. They just don't want to deal with the ****ed turn axis! )
The fleet naausican escort is actually pretty badass. I plan on getting one, and I am naming it Death Piranha. (renaming my karfi to Death Catfish) actually I -really- like the fleet nausicaan ship.
Also the feds have plenty of garbage choices. Ever hear of the two galaxy cruisers, and starcruiser? :P
Then you have the DSSV which is trash compared to the other sci ships. (both kdf and fed)
Then there's the Fleet Cruisers the feds got which are Fucklulz every last one of them.
The Voquv imo is a slightly better carrier than the Atrox, as is the Karfi, to the Akira.
The klinks also have the best dps sci ships in the game... The Heghta and Brel. (no they aren't tac ships, I don't care how many good "one shotters" there are in bops. they could do that just as well, in a Raptor. They just don't want to deal with the ****ed turn axis! )
True the Naausican escort does look interesting, but it still subpar in stats, and I am a Klingon tac wanting a Klingon tac exprience in a BOP.
But, folks sorry to derail this thread. Hope you guys really have fun with the ship and see you all on the battlefield! Honk if you see Qeng!
the % of extra damage a 5th console ads is the most misleading measurement you can use in this case. the % increase from going from 2 tac consoles to 3 is much more dramatic, but because your damage per shot is SO much lower with that number of consoles.
a 4th sci console would be interesting, with 4 consoles buffing what you decide to put in the LTC sci station slot. i would prefer it having that too instead of it being the bug 2.0 with a sci LTC for the lulz.
the % of extra damage a 5th console ads is the most misleading measurement you can use in this case. the % increase from going from 2 tac consoles to 3 is much more dramatic, but because your damage per shot is SO much lower with that number of consoles.
a 4th sci console would be interesting, with 4 consoles buffing what you decide to put in the LTC sci station slot. i would prefer it having that too instead of it being the bug 2.0 with a sci LTC for the lulz.
at least the fleet naausican escort is a match for the non fleet defiant R :rolleyes:
I think it's more comparable to the fleet patrol ship actually. it's going to be healthily more agile.
I think it's more comparable to the fleet patrol ship actually. it's going to be healthily more agile.
That shield modifier could use some love though.
well, even being down on some hitpoints its still better then the fleet qin. not sure what they were trying to accomplish giving the retrofit and fleet version different ENS station from each other
well, even being down on some hitpoints its still better then the fleet qin. not sure what they were trying to accomplish giving the retrofit and fleet version different ENS station from each other
I blame the Somraw.
Whoever descided that needed to be in there, is why the Qin, and X Wing both are in the Suck For Life pile.
well thats totally wrong. each tactical console adds the same amount of damage, there are no diminishing returns. with each console the % of increase damage is less, because your total damage is that much higher, the goalposts of the equations changed. but the benefit from the console it additive. 1 console + 3 consoles gives just as much additional damage as 1 console + 4 consoles
TL;DR, ANOTHER 5 tac console escort is a BAD THING
Lol. We both are "Kinda" right but neither explained it too well. Diminishing returns are when whatever is over a specific value is lost, or significantly reduced (like a logarithmic growth), and this is not the case with consoles, so I was wrong using diminishing returns term. I have a bookmark somewhere on how output damage is calculated (the formula that shows the actual gain in output damage from 4 to 5 consoles), but I'll be damn, every time I look for a bookmark I can't find it. Bottom line is that the gain from the 5th console is very small and at least in my opinion won't be a big deal. Any other console (sci or engi) would be more useful, and most people would probably dump a universal console on 5th position since the gain is really not worth using 5 same consoles. Also, in the sense of fairness, when I did my test with Bortasqu I concluded that the sensor scan outscores big time the 5th console from the tac bortasqu. But that's another story...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Lol. We both are "Kinda" right but neither explained it too well. Diminishing returns are when whatever is over a specific value is lost, or significantly reduced (like a logarithmic growth), and this is not the case with consoles, so I was wrong using diminishing returns term. I have a bookmark somewhere on how output damage is calculated (the formula that shows the actual gain in output damage from 4 to 5 consoles), but I'll be damn, every time I look for a bookmark I can't find it. Bottom line is that the gain from the 5th console is very small and at least in my opinion won't be a big deal. Any other console (sci or engi) would be more useful, and most people would probably dump a universal console on 5th position since the gain is really not worth using 5 same consoles. Also, in the sense of fairness, when I did my test with Bortasqu I concluded that the sensor scan outscores big time the 5th console from the tac bortasqu. But that's another story...
i know what your talking about, its the same thing with the weapons energy analysis this guy did.
after a wile the benefit was just too tiny to be worth raising it higher. but in this case, the ship already does so much damage that it seems like the effect of 1 more console on top of it doesn't make much of a difference. but just worrying about the % of additional damage is misleading when you have so many things adding to the damage pot.
sensor analysis on the flagships is thrice damned as far as im concerned. every time a flag ship flys at me solo when im capping a point or something i check if its a sci version. if it is, i bug out, im not here for his amusement, not giving him a victory he didn't deserve. you cant kill one of those flagships solo in under a minute.
im sure the theory crafting and dps number crunching told you its a negligible increase, but in practice and during an alpha it starts being more damage then can be countered. theres a reason a well flown bug ship has twice the damage score of anyone else at the end of a match. bug ships, MVAM sections, only a bop has more cannon uptime then these escorts thanks to its mobility, and bops only have 3 tac consoles.
a 4 DHC escort going all out with a fully buffed alpha strike can defeat the shield transferring of TT, and the resists from EPtS and TSS. your hull is likely to take up to a quarter damage from such an attack.
the bug with its 5th consoles doing the same thing will leave you half dead with its TT defeating firepower. with TT working as hard as it can during these strikes, even my KHG shield is drained down to nothing and my hull is half gone by the time the alpha is over.
i can hold off the stranded 4 console escort alpha all day, but there is a clear back breaking difference in practice when it comes to what 5 tac consoles can do.
theres also several tac bortasqs running around using the same tactics those galaxy X 1 shooter use, only with the combination of 5 tac consoles, 4 DHC, and the auto cannons its the closest thing to an automatic 1 shot in game ive ever seen.
To address the "diminishing returns" thing...let's say you have a stack of phaser relays that are all the same value and they all say that you get "30% increase in phaser damage." Does that mean that each console increases your damage by 30% of your base stats? If that is the case, then each console does the same thing...but the increase in your damage looks less dramatic with each additional console.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
To address the "diminishing returns" thing...let's say you have a stack of phaser relays that are all the same value and they all say that you get "30% increase in phaser damage." Does that mean that each console increases your damage by 30% of your base stats? If that is the case, then each console does the same thing...but the increase in your damage looks less dramatic with each additional console.
yep thats how they work, every one of them makes a big difference. also added to the end damage is the buffs you receive from specing into weapons training and energy training skills. its just that the % of increased damage each console adds ends up being less each time, because the new total damage number increases so much with every console. even though its adding 30 damage each time, the % increase in damage each console is like so
people think the diminishing % of damage increases each console means more then 3 or 4 are a waist, but its NOT. they call this a misleading statistic. 30 more damage per shot is still 30 more damage per shot, just like when you put on console 1 through 4.
TL;DR 5 tac console escorts are just as bad as i said they were last time i said TL;DR
That's the theory, but bear in mind that for some bizarre reason it's called a "Fleet Advanced Escort" (just to confuse people for laughs at the dev office?) and if you look at the chart they posted on the blog, they haven't actually included the MVAM console as something that it can fit. I'd be very surprised if that really turned out to be the case, but honestly you never know.
Based on the name, I have always supposed that the "fleet advanced escort" was the "fleet version" of the advanced escort, not the MVAE.
The 5th console can be interesting, but I prefer the boff's layout of the advanced escort.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
I REALLY think that Cryptic need to stop giving ALL the best configurations to only one side of the equation. Seriously, please.
When is the KDF going to be receive an iota of escort-capable BOP's, upgraded to the new fleet ships. The current BOP's left the nest too soon. They will expire before the first rains.
While I fully agree the KDF could use a bit of love, I don't fully agree with BOPs.
BOPs I was always told are not supposed to be escorts, they're raiders. They uncloak rip the TRIBBLE off of whatever it's targetting then fly away and cloak again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
While I fully agree the KDF could use a bit of love, I don't fully agree with BOPs.
BOPs I was always told are not supposed to be escorts, they're raiders. They uncloak rip the TRIBBLE off of whatever it's targetting then fly away and cloak again.
True but lets be honest, with the SB ships, can they honestly fulfill that role even anymore?
I get that they are not escorts and can live with that, but would "Raiders" not be more aggressive seeing as they are ships designed to operate indept. behind enemy lines so to speak?
True but lets be honest, with the SB ships, can they honestly fulfill that role even anymore?
I get that they are not escorts and can live with that, but would "Raiders" not be more aggressive seeing as they are ships designed to operate indept. behind enemy lines so to speak?
With Sci Birds, yes. Let's also be honest here, the BOP was never a tac captains ship. Sure it did a decent job standing in as one during the chain stun days, but after that, there's a reason most of the tacs left the bop.
Also: 5th tac console yes is ridiculous on a bug or jemmy. but the thing to remember is they get much more impact out of it by having that lt cmdr be a tac slot.
A 4th sci console would boost TBR, dps (for example) by a very significant amount vs tac to weapons. It's something like a 60 dps increase per console, for particle gens IIRC.
True but lets be honest, with the SB ships, can they honestly fulfill that role even anymore?
I get that they are not escorts and can live with that, but would "Raiders" not be more aggressive seeing as they are ships designed to operate indept. behind enemy lines so to speak?
If one raider is not sufficient, why not have a partner? Two raiders, three or more?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
You know, it would be pretty cool if escort type, raider ships and so, instead of getting ever more powerful to obscene proportions, they get more ships instead.
So instead of a t6 defiant, you have two t4 defiants as quick example.
Comments
Also the feds have plenty of garbage choices. Ever hear of the two galaxy cruisers, and starcruiser? :P
Then you have the DSSV which is trash compared to the other sci ships. (both kdf and fed)
Then there's the Fleet Cruisers the feds got which are Fucklulz every last one of them.
The Voquv imo is a slightly better carrier than the Atrox, as is the Karfi, to the Akira.
The klinks also have the best dps sci ships in the game... The Heghta and Brel.
True the Naausican escort does look interesting, but it still subpar in stats, and I am a Klingon tac wanting a Klingon tac exprience
But, folks sorry to derail this thread. Hope you guys really have fun with the ship and see you all on the battlefield! Honk if you see Qeng!
a 4th sci console would be interesting, with 4 consoles buffing what you decide to put in the LTC sci station slot. i would prefer it having that too instead of it being the bug 2.0 with a sci LTC for the lulz.
at least the fleet naausican escort is a match for the non fleet defiant R :rolleyes:
I think it's more comparable to the fleet patrol ship actually. it's going to be healthily more agile.
That shield modifier could use some love though.
well, even being down on some hitpoints its still better then the fleet qin. not sure what they were trying to accomplish giving the retrofit and fleet version different ENS station from each other
I blame the Somraw.
Whoever descided that needed to be in there, is why the Qin, and X Wing both are in the Suck For Life pile.
Lol. We both are "Kinda" right but neither explained it too well. Diminishing returns are when whatever is over a specific value is lost, or significantly reduced (like a logarithmic growth), and this is not the case with consoles, so I was wrong using diminishing returns term. I have a bookmark somewhere on how output damage is calculated (the formula that shows the actual gain in output damage from 4 to 5 consoles), but I'll be damn, every time I look for a bookmark I can't find it. Bottom line is that the gain from the 5th console is very small and at least in my opinion won't be a big deal. Any other console (sci or engi) would be more useful, and most people would probably dump a universal console on 5th position since the gain is really not worth using 5 same consoles. Also, in the sense of fairness, when I did my test with Bortasqu I concluded that the sensor scan outscores big time the 5th console from the tac bortasqu. But that's another story...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
i know what your talking about, its the same thing with the weapons energy analysis this guy did.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Asu87Jb5VCBgdHFKbmdpZjlEMHk3YUhfNGRTbllNY0E&output=html
after a wile the benefit was just too tiny to be worth raising it higher. but in this case, the ship already does so much damage that it seems like the effect of 1 more console on top of it doesn't make much of a difference. but just worrying about the % of additional damage is misleading when you have so many things adding to the damage pot.
sensor analysis on the flagships is thrice damned as far as im concerned. every time a flag ship flys at me solo when im capping a point or something i check if its a sci version. if it is, i bug out, im not here for his amusement, not giving him a victory he didn't deserve. you cant kill one of those flagships solo in under a minute.
im sure the theory crafting and dps number crunching told you its a negligible increase, but in practice and during an alpha it starts being more damage then can be countered. theres a reason a well flown bug ship has twice the damage score of anyone else at the end of a match. bug ships, MVAM sections, only a bop has more cannon uptime then these escorts thanks to its mobility, and bops only have 3 tac consoles.
a 4 DHC escort going all out with a fully buffed alpha strike can defeat the shield transferring of TT, and the resists from EPtS and TSS. your hull is likely to take up to a quarter damage from such an attack.
the bug with its 5th consoles doing the same thing will leave you half dead with its TT defeating firepower. with TT working as hard as it can during these strikes, even my KHG shield is drained down to nothing and my hull is half gone by the time the alpha is over.
i can hold off the stranded 4 console escort alpha all day, but there is a clear back breaking difference in practice when it comes to what 5 tac consoles can do.
theres also several tac bortasqs running around using the same tactics those galaxy X 1 shooter use, only with the combination of 5 tac consoles, 4 DHC, and the auto cannons its the closest thing to an automatic 1 shot in game ive ever seen.
Something like this:
0 consoles: Phaser array does, say, 100 dmg
1 console increases dmg by 30% of base: 130 total dmg
2 consoles: 160
3 consoles: 190
4 consoles: 220
5 consoles: 250
Is that how it works, then?
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
yep thats how they work, every one of them makes a big difference. also added to the end damage is the buffs you receive from specing into weapons training and energy training skills. its just that the % of increased damage each console adds ends up being less each time, because the new total damage number increases so much with every console. even though its adding 30 damage each time, the % increase in damage each console is like so
1 23.0%
2 18.8% -4.2%
3 15.9% -2.9%
4 13.6% -2.3%
5 12.0% -1.6%
people think the diminishing % of damage increases each console means more then 3 or 4 are a waist, but its NOT. they call this a misleading statistic. 30 more damage per shot is still 30 more damage per shot, just like when you put on console 1 through 4.
TL;DR 5 tac console escorts are just as bad as i said they were last time i said TL;DR
Based on the name, I have always supposed that the "fleet advanced escort" was the "fleet version" of the advanced escort, not the MVAE.
The 5th console can be interesting, but I prefer the boff's layout of the advanced escort.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
While I fully agree the KDF could use a bit of love, I don't fully agree with BOPs.
BOPs I was always told are not supposed to be escorts, they're raiders. They uncloak rip the TRIBBLE off of whatever it's targetting then fly away and cloak again.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
True but lets be honest, with the SB ships, can they honestly fulfill that role even anymore?
I get that they are not escorts and can live with that, but would "Raiders" not be more aggressive seeing as they are ships designed to operate indept. behind enemy lines so to speak?
With Sci Birds, yes. Let's also be honest here, the BOP was never a tac captains ship. Sure it did a decent job standing in as one during the chain stun days, but after that, there's a reason most of the tacs left the bop.
A 4th sci console would boost TBR, dps (for example) by a very significant amount vs tac to weapons. It's something like a 60 dps increase per console, for particle gens IIRC.
If one raider is not sufficient, why not have a partner? Two raiders, three or more?
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Yeah, you mean like 2 or 3 Hegh'ta vs. 2 or 3 SB Defiants. I wonder who would win.
Please don't take me as a complainer, really I'm just dissappointed.
three letters....QEW
OP *is* the new balance, whether you know it or not! Gecko says so.
Season 7 - Exodus, available online. U buy nao!
http://seekingalpha.com/article/738221-monetizing-perfect-world-s-latest-update
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If I thought that particular gang wouldn't get offended, I've had serious thoughts of resurrecting their name.
I can't stop salivating that the sound of that ... say it again! "...QEW"
Maybe if I say their name thrice in a mirror they will return?
So instead of a t6 defiant, you have two t4 defiants as quick example.
QEW QEW QEW {Shakes mirror violently} "Its not working" QEEEEEEEWWWWW!!!!!!!
*gets some summoning candles, etches a pentagram into the mirror*
I do believe in KDF premades.
QEW
I do believe in KDF premades
*Lights candles*
QEW
I do believe in the KDF premade
*Turns lights off*
QEW
*Calls Cthulu by mistake*