I want you to remember this moment. I am a paying customer, and I am about to walk out the door.
How the hell do you solve that problem?
I followed the rules, and I ended up losing.
I am a casual single-player.
When I gave it a shot at joining a fleet, I ended up losing out at the end.
I was basically told, "You get paid in fleet marks, so you should be happy with just getting them."
You guys gave power to one group of players, and you ended up alienating another group in the process.
If I have the money on the table (while meeting certain requirements), how did another player just determine how I use my resources?
Why are other players (and gates) standing in the way of me making a purchase?
my fleet is around 200 ppl, only bout 30 active, but were getting our projects started pretty good now, but with that said, i refuse to tell my fleet who is allowed to buy fleet ships when they become available.
its first come first serve. and my fleet seems to be thankful about this policy
we may not be getting base levels as fast as super fleets but there is no fighting
if you dont like your fleet and wanna join mine contact tank@spacetank ( thats me) in game
I'm pretty sure what your players are trying to tell you is; they don't like this answer. When you start getting into the larger fleet sizes, policing contribution rates is nearly impossible, lots of work, and ultimately not fun. Especially if it's a day in and day out affair like this is. It also breeds irritation and resentment within the fleet itself.
This is where Fleet Politics come in -- since the officers (read: fleet ranks with the right permission settings) are able to see the projects, Fleet Leaders, and the fleet as a whole, may want to agree on setting some ground rules for donating. I'll pass along the feedback, but I think you answered your own question in your post Cheers, Brandon =/\=
Doesn't that also contradict the nature of "Star Trek"? I thought "Star Trek" was about promoting unity?
We live in a world where politics is ripping everything apart. Why would you want to make a digital atmosphere where people quit, argue, and rage?
Why would you also want to put other players in the way of another individual's ability to buy something? Why are you folks alienating people? If someone has the cash in hand, you should not make them jump through hoops. Let people buy stuff without all these obstacles.
Do you want people to stay united? Do you want people to make a purchase?
Where do you draw that line?
This is a game based upon the series "Star Trek", right?
Where is the logic?
A lot has changed in the past 300 years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy. ~ Picard; Episode: The Neutral Zone
Maybe Picard is right.
Maybe its time to eliminate my desire to accumulate new game elements; thus, removing any of my temptations to buy stuff from the c-store (zen store).
The only way I see right now to help players that are overlooked in their larger fleets (when it comes to the ability to get ships and other goodies) is setting up a channel (if it wasn't done already - I've already mentioned it a couple times) where small, or alts, fleets can offer their surplus provisions for whatever they need (I can imagine mostly fleet marks, dilithium).
Yes, it couldn't be perfect, there would always be people who just "rob the stores" of the too trusting fleet, or unscrupulous fleet owners who would wait for the newcomers to fill all projects yet later deny them the possibility to buy "stuff". All I can do is hope that the "bad players" get known, as well as the honorable little fleets.
That's the proposition I have, and unless the devs decide to change the current system, the only feasible.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
How I would fix this system:
(1) Make more fleet mark missions available to casual and single players.
(2) Make a way for a single player to be able to turn those marks in for fleet credits (without worrying about joining a fleet).
(3) Keep the module and fleet credit requirements in place, but remove the tier requirements to accommodate 'independent' players.
(4) Remove the ability to buy the modules from the exchange, so people are forced to buy them with the purchase of zen.
If someone walks up to you with the required fleet credits and modules, they should have instance access to these high level ships. Anything else creates division and alienation. You also risk losing a chance to make a currency based sale.
And as a single player, I'd definitely have anything against your points 1 and 3. Only it would make the SB construction worthless, if not for aesthetic purpose.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Fleet marks are given as reward in new missions, and then used in fleet projects. From contributing them (as well as everything else needed) you finally get Fleet credits.
And those Fleet credits are the actual currency you can them buy stuff with in Fleet stores.
And as a single player, I'd definitely have anything against your points 1 and 3. Only it would make the SB construction worthless, if not for aesthetic purpose.
Fixed. Can you remove the quoted aspect of your post, so that people will not be confused? Thanks.
When I was referring to currency, I was talking about actual money.
Oh, forgot to add, I disagree with your 4th point. As it is, it's easier for me to get the modules from the exchange than from the C-Store.
And finally, for the second point: If all you need is Fleet credits, I'll gladly invite you temporarily to my solo fleet, heck, I'll even start a project of your choice for you alone to fill, if you wish. That's part of the usefulness of the channel I suggested.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
(4) Remove the ability to buy the modules from the exchange, so people are forced to buy them with the purchase of zen.
Why? Someone still has to pay zen for the module in order to put it on the exchange, but it lets people who don't want to spend money directly still have access to the fleet ships. PWE still gets their money and you can still buy the modules with zen to avoid that part of the fleet ship grind, so what is the issue?
_________________________ TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz- Svarog | Veles | et al.
Back to the OP, as the one who is setting up the projects for our fleet, I agree with your point that all players should be able to see the projects that are in the pipeline. It helps with overall planning for everyone.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I'm in a large fleet, and it's not practical to give everyone the option to see/select the next upcoming project. Why? Simple, projects require different things. We had someone choose a project where we had to contribute 25 refugees. Refugees are tough to come by and it took us awhile to overcome that objective.
I don't understand why there is an option to not allow fleet members to contribute.
I'm in a large fleet, and it's not practical to give everyone the option to see/select the next upcoming project. Why? Simple, projects require different things. We had someone choose a project where we had to contribute 25 refugees. Refugees are tough to come by and it took us awhile to overcome that objective.
I don't understand why there is an option to not allow fleet members to contribute.
Selecting the next project is for sure something that should be erstricted, but not been able to see the next project makes no sence, more so when they sometimes require harder to get resources.
Another idea would be to restrict contributions to blocks, for example, if a project requires 10,000 dilithium, players should only be able to contribute it 500 maybe 1000 at a time (a bit like particles traces, althoguh tbh I think they shouldbe in blocks of 10, not 1 at a time!). That way more people get a chance to contribute instead of one person been able to fill up the entire contribution in 1 click. This immediatly solves the issue of who clicks first wins and gives more people a chance.
The way our fleet has distributed loot, is that we have made each memeber select a main char, each char is allowed to buy '1' ship and the items to equip it, as well as a set of ground items for themselves (not thier BoFF's). We then assign permissions to buy the stuff as needed and moniter the purchases. Once everyones mains are sorted out we'll be reviewing the resources we have and make adjustments as needed so people can begin to equip thier BoFF's and alts. To be honest though, I hate the idea of limited items in the store, all it does is cause friction in the fleet.
My prediction for how it will all unfold eventually is how some raid guilds worked in WoW. You'll get a few fleets with T5 starbases, they will then invite people to the fleet to make high tier purchases (assuming they have the lfeet credits) and charge them a premium for doing so (maybe in the form of C-point gift vouchers). My guild in WoW used to sell raid spots in raids we had on farm status to casual players so they could buy the raid loot them wanted, pretty sure the same will happen in STO eventually as smaller fleets fall behind.
Add a voting mechanic the fleet leader can toggle for certain ranks to be eligible to vote on what upcoming project to place in the oven. Voting ends after a given time. Alt/trial protection via rank permissions.
Fleets that want to avail of such a system can do so, others can stick with the top-down approach, others can discuss on private forums etc. Asking Cryptic to address communication and decision issues within the group of people you freely choose to be with... is silly.
The system is designed to allow people to leave fleets they feel are incompatible and keep their fleet credits (effort they input) intact. You can -only- lose out be spending your time with people who are incompatible (won't let you see/discuss the projects, won't put you in line for a starship, snipe the easy consumables etc.)
As the Fleet Admiral of a smallish 30-odd member fleet (with fewer than that who are active), I for one try to make a point to include everyone who is interested in doing so, in this process. If anyone has an issue with not being able to contribute, I would hope that they would bring it to my attention so that the fleet as a whole can make sure they are getting the credits they desire.
In short, nobody in our fleet has any rivalries, nobody is trying to one-up anyone else, and if anyone persisted in doing so, they wouldnt belong to our fleet for long.
I guess my point is that to everyone in this thread who is having these kinds of issues - the way this system is set up is not creating these issues within your fleets, its just exposing them. Sounds to me like a good reason to leave and find a friendlier and perhaps smaller fleet who is more interesting in helping rather than hindering your progress.
How about you add a system where the leaders of the Fleets can place their own caps if they desire them. I'm in a small Fleet.. capping contributions will only cripple us...
I really like the fleet im in. However i would like to see what project is coming up next along with the resources required so i know and could stock up or not put all of the resource into a doff mission. Im not asking to be able to set the project, i just think that everyone in the fleet should be able to see the next project in line along with the resources required for it.
I really like the fleet im in. However i would like to see what project is coming up next along with the resources required so i know and could stock up or not put all of the resource into a doff mission. Im not asking to be able to set the project, i just think that everyone in the fleet should be able to see the next project in line along with the resources required for it.
That might be a nice feature. For my members to see what is going to happen next. So it would not be a bad idea.
A big problem with "fleet politics" being the basis for controlling projects is that there is no way to chastise someone for misbehavior short of ejecting him or her from the fleet, and no way to protest short of leaving the fleet yourself. Unless you are one of the "big spenders" who is the cause of the issue in this thread, choosing to withhold your contributions will hurt you more than it does the fleet.
I would like to propose requiring a minimum quota of players to contribute at least a token amount to a project in order for it to complete--say, ten percent of all fleet members. No project would then be able to complete on just one or two people's contributions.
Comments
its first come first serve. and my fleet seems to be thankful about this policy
we may not be getting base levels as fast as super fleets but there is no fighting
if you dont like your fleet and wanna join mine contact tank@spacetank ( thats me) in game
join date: Jan. 2012
I was hoping that the leaderboard was more for a fleet Vs fleet pvp or something along those lines.
Starbases are nice and all, but beyond all the shiny new stuff it is just another boring old grind.
PvP needs some lovin'
(Sorry for hijacking the thread)
I'm pretty sure what your players are trying to tell you is; they don't like this answer. When you start getting into the larger fleet sizes, policing contribution rates is nearly impossible, lots of work, and ultimately not fun. Especially if it's a day in and day out affair like this is. It also breeds irritation and resentment within the fleet itself.
We live in a world where politics is ripping everything apart. Why would you want to make a digital atmosphere where people quit, argue, and rage?
Why would you also want to put other players in the way of another individual's ability to buy something? Why are you folks alienating people? If someone has the cash in hand, you should not make them jump through hoops. Let people buy stuff without all these obstacles.
Do you want people to stay united? Do you want people to make a purchase?
Where do you draw that line?
This is a game based upon the series "Star Trek", right?
Where is the logic?
Maybe Picard is right.
Maybe its time to eliminate my desire to accumulate new game elements; thus, removing any of my temptations to buy stuff from the c-store (zen store).
I have a lot of things to think about.
Yes, it couldn't be perfect, there would always be people who just "rob the stores" of the too trusting fleet, or unscrupulous fleet owners who would wait for the newcomers to fill all projects yet later deny them the possibility to buy "stuff". All I can do is hope that the "bad players" get known, as well as the honorable little fleets.
That's the proposition I have, and unless the devs decide to change the current system, the only feasible.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
(1) Make more fleet mark missions available to casual and single players.
(2) Make a way for a single player to be able to turn those marks in for fleet credits (without worrying about joining a fleet).
(3) Keep the module and fleet credit requirements in place, but remove the tier requirements to accommodate 'independent' players.
(4) Remove the ability to buy the modules from the exchange, so people are forced to buy them with the purchase of zen.
If someone walks up to you with the required fleet credits and modules, they should have instance access to these high level ships. Anything else creates division and alienation. You also risk losing a chance to make a currency based sale.
And as a single player, I'd definitely have anything against your points 1 and 3. Only it would make the SB construction worthless, if not for aesthetic purpose.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
When I was referring to currency, I was talking about actual money.
And finally, for the second point: If all you need is Fleet credits, I'll gladly invite you temporarily to my solo fleet, heck, I'll even start a project of your choice for you alone to fill, if you wish.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Why? Someone still has to pay zen for the module in order to put it on the exchange, but it lets people who don't want to spend money directly still have access to the fleet ships. PWE still gets their money and you can still buy the modules with zen to avoid that part of the fleet ship grind, so what is the issue?
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I don't understand why there is an option to not allow fleet members to contribute.
Selecting the next project is for sure something that should be erstricted, but not been able to see the next project makes no sence, more so when they sometimes require harder to get resources.
Another idea would be to restrict contributions to blocks, for example, if a project requires 10,000 dilithium, players should only be able to contribute it 500 maybe 1000 at a time (a bit like particles traces, althoguh tbh I think they shouldbe in blocks of 10, not 1 at a time!). That way more people get a chance to contribute instead of one person been able to fill up the entire contribution in 1 click. This immediatly solves the issue of who clicks first wins and gives more people a chance.
The way our fleet has distributed loot, is that we have made each memeber select a main char, each char is allowed to buy '1' ship and the items to equip it, as well as a set of ground items for themselves (not thier BoFF's). We then assign permissions to buy the stuff as needed and moniter the purchases. Once everyones mains are sorted out we'll be reviewing the resources we have and make adjustments as needed so people can begin to equip thier BoFF's and alts. To be honest though, I hate the idea of limited items in the store, all it does is cause friction in the fleet.
My prediction for how it will all unfold eventually is how some raid guilds worked in WoW. You'll get a few fleets with T5 starbases, they will then invite people to the fleet to make high tier purchases (assuming they have the lfeet credits) and charge them a premium for doing so (maybe in the form of C-point gift vouchers). My guild in WoW used to sell raid spots in raids we had on farm status to casual players so they could buy the raid loot them wanted, pretty sure the same will happen in STO eventually as smaller fleets fall behind.
Fleets that want to avail of such a system can do so, others can stick with the top-down approach, others can discuss on private forums etc. Asking Cryptic to address communication and decision issues within the group of people you freely choose to be with... is silly.
The system is designed to allow people to leave fleets they feel are incompatible and keep their fleet credits (effort they input) intact. You can -only- lose out be spending your time with people who are incompatible (won't let you see/discuss the projects, won't put you in line for a starship, snipe the easy consumables etc.)
In short, nobody in our fleet has any rivalries, nobody is trying to one-up anyone else, and if anyone persisted in doing so, they wouldnt belong to our fleet for long.
I guess my point is that to everyone in this thread who is having these kinds of issues - the way this system is set up is not creating these issues within your fleets, its just exposing them. Sounds to me like a good reason to leave and find a friendlier and perhaps smaller fleet who is more interesting in helping rather than hindering your progress.
There doesn't need to be a change just choose your fleet wisely.
Valdus | Charn | Costello | Typhus | Thyran
Join a Fleet that isn't a totalitarian Dictatorship or make your own fleet, they are free.
Seems simple to me.
That might be a nice feature. For my members to see what is going to happen next. So it would not be a bad idea.
Jim
I would like to propose requiring a minimum quota of players to contribute at least a token amount to a project in order for it to complete--say, ten percent of all fleet members. No project would then be able to complete on just one or two people's contributions.