test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Are Noobs Logical?
rdm1958
Member Posts: 822 Arc User
first let me make it perfectly clear that i don't like the term "noob", but i am an advocate of free speech, so use the term if you must. i prefer "new player".
i ask if "noobs" are logical because when i first started playing i was using logic. i was eager to play the game and did not know there was a star trek wiki or this vast forum full of information. i just wanted to play.
i would see players state comments like "10%". my logic told me to destroy the damn gate and things would quit coming through. people would holler and scream at me, calling me noob and making all kinds of bad remarks. no one ever took time to explain the 10% to me, but i was being logical.
i had a rainbow ship at one time; again perfectly logical. i was ready for anything. no one told me i was being ignorant, they just called me a noob. using logic i noticed not a lot of people used rainbows and something was not right, so i started thinking about it. finally some kind soul explained it to me along with the fact that this sto wiki existed and the forum.
i think many noobs, new players, are using logic as i was. i would like to see a playing environment where rather than call a new player "noob" and curse them; i would like to see players explain why the "noob's" logic is wrong.
the logical guys says "live long and prosper".
i ask if "noobs" are logical because when i first started playing i was using logic. i was eager to play the game and did not know there was a star trek wiki or this vast forum full of information. i just wanted to play.
i would see players state comments like "10%". my logic told me to destroy the damn gate and things would quit coming through. people would holler and scream at me, calling me noob and making all kinds of bad remarks. no one ever took time to explain the 10% to me, but i was being logical.
i had a rainbow ship at one time; again perfectly logical. i was ready for anything. no one told me i was being ignorant, they just called me a noob. using logic i noticed not a lot of people used rainbows and something was not right, so i started thinking about it. finally some kind soul explained it to me along with the fact that this sto wiki existed and the forum.
i think many noobs, new players, are using logic as i was. i would like to see a playing environment where rather than call a new player "noob" and curse them; i would like to see players explain why the "noob's" logic is wrong.
the logical guys says "live long and prosper".
Post edited by rdm1958 on
0
Comments
Personally, I distinquish between "newb" and "n00b".
A newb is really green, but is interested in learning.
"N00b" covers any of a variety of woes: From someone that just wants to derp around and/or grief for lulz, to a self-proclaimed "Elite" player that still has no idea what they're doing, but cops an attitude if anyone questions them.
Everyone has been a newbie once, but there's no excuse for being an eternal n00b.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
With regards to rainbow beams, the penny dropped with me around level 30 or so that it was handicapping my DPS. To be honest, it really should've dropped a lot sooner because at the time there were energy-type specific skills. I was belatedly logical about it, I suppose. Honestly, I probably didn't read everything properly at the time, or think about the fact I had limited skill points.
I've not had the experience of learning the current STFs as a new player. But I agree that people, if they don't explain what 10% means, should check that everyone understands it. I don't form groups myself anymore, but when I did in ISEs, I usually asked "does everyone understand 10%?" before loading the maps. I still in CSE groups, when the group leader says 'rmmrl', type it out long-hand to make sure everyone gets it. That said, if you see "10%" in chat and don't understand it, what's to stop you from asking? Or for new players to say "I'm new to STFs, what do I need to do?" which I've never seen happen, even though I've done a few where someone was quite clearly lost. Maybe it's fear of abuse, but surely it's better to ask than to not ask and make mistakes?
That doesn't excuse abuse, obviously.
Free speech has nothing to do with the rules of a private forum, and the forum rules state you may not make any derogatory comment regarding a player's veteran status.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
After a while, us froobs enbraced it and proudly wore our fr00b t-Shirt! (actual item in game)
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC]
Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
Fixed. I look forward to seeing that enforced because I don't think it is.
edit: To answer the original post, I dont like either term. I prefer new player as well.
That is incorrect.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
As far as I;m concerned it is.
We were suffering from poor dps and lots of deaths. Noticed one person was using a Lirpa. I said Lirpa = Bad. They said why? I said its poor dps - you should use a gun.
They said Borg adapt to guns and I'd have to remodulate, that takes time. I said, that's just being lazy. You'd do better damage using a gun. They said, it's not lazy - it's a Logical Choice.
Then after looking at them more closely I said - if you examine your Lirpa it's actual an Energy Weapon (Nanopulse). You've been doing a whopping 1 Damage this whole time! Tell me if that's Logical?
I did not have to call this person a n00b or any such names but they switch to a gun after this little chat. :P
And thats fine. However that has nothing to do with my post
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Who on earth would be that dense? Sure, you don't have to remodulate a Bat'leth, but it is not like the Borg are coming out of the woodwork, even on Elite. I've hardly ever found a time when I couldn't step aside and remodulate.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
I used to eat Frubes or "Froobs" for breakfast. */Shooter-McGavin Voice
Just to note a couple of things (that will certainly make you not want to team with me
I very rarely start a game by searching for guides and wikis. Why? Because it sucks all the fun out of the game experience.
The notion that "If you join a STF, you are expected to know what you are doing" is one reason why I have never joined an STF and probably never will. They are only fun the first time when nobody knows what's coming. Knowing what you are doing before you ever get there means you never experience the sense of discovery, of actually thinking through and experimenting with different tactics until you find something that works. You lose the Wow! moment of satisfaction when you finally figure it out and defeat the mission.
There is nothing "reasonable" about seeking out such information. The idea that players are using their own imagination in outfitting their ships and playing the game is what playing a game is all about. I don't want to go into any game preprogrammed to be "the best."
The perspective you are advocating is that only the original players should have a fully fleshed out game experience. Everyone else is supposed to just read up and follow the "correct" program thereafter.
I do use wikis on occasion to make sure I know how powers/consoles, etc. work (but only if I'm not making much headway on my own). But I rarely read strategy guides for specific missions or min-max perfect builds, or whatever FOTM traiting is current. I'd rather play, experiment, and learn. You know, like the players who originally defeated the STFs at the outset. Why should they have all the fun?
That said, I hadn't played for two months or so, but since I started again it's my impression that the situation has gotten much better than when I left. Small sample size I know, but it seems to me most F2P starters either learned how it works by now or quit after failing too often. From 15 STFs in the last 3 days I think I only failed one and nearly all of the other runs succeeded with optional.
I only blew up a generator early once on ISE, and even then it wasn't a big problem because someone used gravity well to save it and I waited to 10% on the next transformer.
Or re-run missions for up to mk XI blues (in beams, I think the cannons you can only get in green), which is cheaper, but more time consuming.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
On the part of the adviser? Yes.
Sounds like this was KA and he/she was advocating a 10% rule there, a move that makes no sense on any level.
That is wilful ignorance: parroting a stupid tradition without critically examining it.
Listening to advice is one thing, following it blindly is another; one shouldn't assume advice always comes from a qualified source.
OP, if you receive advice on:
1. Your build:
Take a spreadsheet and verify the claim made: if someone tells you "rainbows are inefficient", it's easy to check that said person is, indeed, correct.
If someone tells you "you absolutely need to run a Quantum Torpedo on your Escort, it's non-negotiable", it's also not too hard to realise he/she's talking baloney.
2. Strat:
Read the objectives, familiarise yourself with spawns and the behaviour of the enemy then examine critically if the advice was sound or not.
Sometimes it's perfectly sound (10% rule in ISE), sometimes it's impossibly stupid (10% rule in KASE).
Tl;dr: always check for yourself.
There are two types of people. Those that do research on things (be it through wikis, forums or asking other players) and those that don't. The first group really isn't the problem here and the second won't care for your advice.
I'm not saying you are wrong, it's absolutely the best course of action. But it rarely happens unfortunately.
Agreed. A clue was put out; if one doesn't understand the clue, asking would be the logical course of action. Of course, in this instance, it appears that errors were made on both sides.
One of the reasons why the first words out of my chat after hello is "10% right?"
The first time I went into an elite, I knew nothing about the 10% rule and got a lot of garbage when I blew away the Duke Power um Borg transformer thingie. Someone did explain though after it happened.
And ever since then I still have yet to have a STF work where we've gotten down to 10% and all stopped. *sigh*
Where's that thread about laziness about the second group....
We have a "I want to be spoonfed" mentality now a days.
Your first point is perfectly valid. Your second, unfortunately, is not; had you checked and thought about it, you'd have noticed that consoles for a single damage type have a larger bonus then general ones, which I did.
Unforunately, that one is a two-edged sword. I don't want to be "spoonfed" all the information up front so that there is no challenge in figuring out how to defeat the encounter.
On the other hand, asking questions and learning how your skills work are important factors in that process.
The first time I run a mission -- whether it is a standard mission or STF -- I don't want to know how to defeat it up front. I don't want to go into robot mode and just follow the prescribed path the first time. I want the challenge and excitement of defeating it, just like the players who created the guides did.
To me, reading a "how to defeat this raid" guide before you play can be the ultimate in spoonfeeding. I don't feel like I have to use my own wits or instincts anymore; someone else did the thinking for me.
Caveat: If the context in question is Elite STFs vs. running STFs in general, I agree that players should some idea of what they're doing when they get there. Hopefully from having run non-Elite STFs and gaining experience, but that's going to depend on the individual.
I just don't think players should be prejudged as lazy or stupid because they don't read walkthrough guides ahead of time. Sometimes they forgo said guides *because* they are NOT lazy and want to be challenged.
This is a great post. STO should be a fun game experience, but many rude and hateful players do all they can to prevent that. Fortunately, there are a lot of really decent players too that do help make the game fun.
But you gotta understand too, in a PuG it is likely that 4 out of 5 players just want the EDC/chance for a tech drop and the dilithium. You can't expect them to purposefully play as if they didn't know the mission to help a new player discover things.
Since these are coop missions, the best and only way to do this would be to team up with 4 other beginners and run it together. I don't see how to do it differently without pissing at least some people off. Someone always gets the short stick, be it the veterans or the beginners. The only solution is groups were everyone is on the same page.
I hate to say it (and I;m trying not to be negative and this isn;t directed towards you) but in real life, it;s called training. You are expected to learn before doing. Or at the very least have some soft of general knowledge on how to do a task before doing it.
Be it documentation or a walkthrough or help from other employees or something along those lines.
And this is exactly why solo missions are better, in my opinion. When you're running on a "team", the expectation is that everyone needs to contribute and do things "the right way" so the team succeeds. There's very little opportunity for trial and error, or taking your time to figure things out. There's never an opportunity to explore the environment and reading dialog is considered to be a waste of time.
Running forced team missions is all about how fast and "perfect" the run can be, that's the challenge and the fun it seems. Hopefully Sesason 7 brings about some more content I can run with my BOs and take time to explore and read the storyline of the mission... I'm tired of racing through the STFs and spamming "looking for 2 more" to do the hard missions on Defera.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
That's sound advice for the workplace or an educational setting, but it doesn't really apply to a video game. STO for the majority is about having fun, taking a break from documentation and training, and enjoying an escapist environment. The moment a game becomes just another piece of work, it isn't really a game anymore.
If you play any other video game you don't start reading precise walkthroughs and tactics, you play and learn through doing. If you make a mistake in one STF, it's unlikely that person is going to make that same mistake again. Well, hopefully they don't.