I guess it is more about their popularity. They are a quite rare sight.
Fleet Vor'cha looks like a good PvE ship to me. Is it mandatory to join a fleet to get one of these ships, or will they be available on the exchange ?
And regarding the Raptors, any chance we will see a T5 SuQob ? That is by far my favourite Raptor design.
Can only get the fleet retrofits from being in a fleet with a established starbase, I doubt the would be on the exchange even though the would be good revenue for the fleets.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Have the devs said the Fleet Ning'Tao will have Enhanced Battle Cloak? Because the B'Rel's EBC is not via a console, so you can't simply drag it over to the new ship. The B'Rel has no special console by itself.
No, from what they said, no Fleet ship will come with any special abilities. So at best the BoP's will retain their Battle Cloaks.
I could see them finally adding the K'Vort as an upgraded B'rel Refit. But personally, I rather see them change the ship system where Fleets upgrade our existing ships to the next level and let us choose the upgrades.
Like Raptors choosing Tactical or Engineering Ensign slot, or what console to add.
I've got to admit, I'd rather have seen the K't'inga retrofit have that layout, and the fleet one have the Excelsior boff loadout. They're comparable at tier 3, I don't see why the Excelsior and Nova would both be more tactical than a battle cruiser.
PWE/Cryptic just made it perfectly clear that they couldn't care less about the KDF having a proper max rank escort. The stats on those 2 Bop's are worthless, why even bother buying them? Wow!!! One of them actually gets a 4th Tactical console like the Defiant has had forever, but we still get screwed on rear weapon slots. Still only 2 rear firing slots for a max rank insane pve grind escort PWE/Cryptic? Have you people gone completely TRIBBLE, or are you just showing us you like the KDF having escort ships with less hull, shields, weapon slots, and device slots than the Feddies get? You must be trying to kill off the KDF faction is these are your ideas of "Balance".
PWE/Cryptic just made it perfectly clear that they couldn't care less about the KDF having a proper max rank escort. The stats on those 2 Bop's are worthless, why even bother buying them? Wow!!! One of them actually gets a 4th Tactical console like the Defiant has had forever, but we still get screwed on rear weapon slots. Still only 2 rear firing slots for a max rank insane pve grind escort PWE/Cryptic? Have you people gone completely TRIBBLE, or are you just showing us you like the KDF having escort ships with less hull, shields, weapon slots, and device slots than the Feddies get? You must be trying to kill off the KDF faction is these are your ideas of "Balance".
Not to say the Raptors are great but they are more comparable to fed escorts than the BoPs, second the BoPs have not only battle cloak but they are the only ships in the game where you can 100% customize your bridge officer choices.
No other ships in the game let you choose which type of boff you can have in the commander slot.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
No other ship ingame is as handicapped for its advantages as the BoP.
Since no other ships in game has such a big advantage thats to be expected. You want big advantages, expect a big smak over the head in exchange. you don't get free lunches.
Since no other ships in game has such a big advantage thats to be expected. You want big advantages, expect a big smak over the head in exchange. you don't get free lunches.
No, only the Feddies get to have those. The KDF is just supposed to grovel for scraps and be grateful for anything tossed our way.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Since no other ships in game has such a big advantage thats to be expected. You want big advantages, expect a big smak over the head in exchange. you don't get free lunches.
Who said I was looking for free lunches?
I was pointing out the fact that the BoP is heavily handicapped for those advantages.
A fact many feds seem to overlook when they bring up the BoP and its Universal slots and the BC or cry " BoPs are OP".
where my kar'fi retrofit almost all my toons fly this ship the ones that dont use lockbox ships.
hope the kar fi isnt getting left behind.
From what I gathered from the P1 podcast, the Kar'fi and the Gal-X will most likely come later as both of these vessels did not translate to the fleet system easily.
Who said I was looking for free lunches?
I was pointing out the fact that the BoP is heavily handicapped for those advantages.
A fact many feds seem to overlook when they bring up the BoP and its Universal slots and the BC or cry " BoPs are OP".
Exactly.
Having gone with the Defiant for a while in my Fed character, I can say that it just plain survives things that I couldn't imagine in my Hegh'ta. (My B'rel is a totally different animal)
You cannot slap a Battle Cloak into a Defiant "because cloaking device!!!" It simply does not work that way. Even with the Defiant Boff layout, the survivability of the Defiant is just so superior... it's an amazing little ship.
I love the Defiant, and I didn't expect to after running the Qin. I think maybe it's experience. I'm ready to give the basic Qin another shot...
The Ning'tao has to be the B'rel +1. The hull points don't make sense otherwise. The B'rel is already amazing, though I wouldn't mind adding APO1 or another big Torpedo skill to the mix. This would be the ship I'd want out of the list.
I wonder how popular it might be. The worst at running BoPs will inevitably poo-poo the thing, but if it's a B'rel +1, that would be the ideal ship for me.
The Hoh'sus BoP has to be a Hegh'ta +1. The turn rate is the same. Crew & hull are in the same ballpark.
Really, that Hoh'sus is our Defiant +1, isn't it? Between KHG & the Cloaking bonus to damage, that's the 5th tactical console. It forces you to run a BoP for the cloak, in a way.
Nothing about the Qin +1 seems all that exciting, and I actually like the Qin now. The 4th Eng console isn't that exciting to me.
It would be cooler if the Som'raw Raptor were the KDF MVAE with that 3rd Sci console... but as it is, I don't care about it as a Sci captain.
The Ning'tao has to be the B'rel +1. The hull points don't make sense otherwise. The B'rel is already amazing, though I wouldn't mind adding APO1 or another big Torpedo skill to the mix. This would be the ship I'd want out of the list.
I wonder how popular it might be. The worst at running BoPs will inevitably poo-poo the thing, but if it's a B'rel +1, that would be the ideal ship for me.
The Hoh'sus BoP has to be a Hegh'ta +1. The turn rate is the same. Crew & hull are in the same ballpark.
Really, that Hoh'sus is our Defiant +1, isn't it? Between KHG & the Cloaking bonus to damage, that's the 5th tactical console. It forces you to run a BoP for the cloak, in a way.
Nothing about the Qin +1 seems all that exciting, and I actually like the Qin now. The 4th Eng console isn't that exciting to me.
It would be cooler if the Som'raw Raptor were the KDF MVAE with that 3rd Sci console... but as it is, I don't care about it as a Sci captain.
The problem with the Som'raw is that it's shield multiplier is terrible. So the extra SCI console (which will be used for the 18% shield console 99% of the time) is just an bandaid for it's pathetically weak baseline shields. It's basically a completely inferior version of the Fleet Patrol Escort (granted the Fleet Patrol is an amazing ship, so the Som'raw isn't as bad as it sounds).
The Qin is a jack of all trades boat. Good shields, Great Hull, but then it pisses it away w/ a mediocre BO layout and a 15 base turn rate. Personally nothing makes me want to fly it. It's just boring and mediocre.
The real "star" out of the KDF escorts is the Fleet Scourge Destroyer Retrofit. With an extra SCI slot (3x 18% shields), a .92% shield modifier, and a sci ENS BO slot (for dual TS1s or PH), it should have the hardest shield tank to crack out of all the escorts when you combine it with a Plasmonic Leech console (running weapons and shields at +100) and KHG shields. On top of that is has the maneuverability of a Defiant and a favorable Tac BO layout. I've never run a Escort w/ an ENS SCI, so it'll be interesting to see how it's survivability compares to the ENS Engineer variant.
The Hoh'sus should be fun. I doubt the battle cloak will make up the damage from a 5th tac console, or really even come close. My main problem w/ BoPs in PvE is that their hull withers under fire when you load them up w/ an AoE load out, and Battle Cloaking becomes quite a gamble. In comparison, the only "saving grace" of the Defiant is that it's BO layout makes it inefficient to run all DHCs. If a Defiant could run all DHCs w/ 5 tac consoles and a fully utilized BO layout, it would be extremely OP.
K't'inga looks like it was made out of cardboard, but it's canon, so at least the ToS diehards can jerk off in it I suppose.
Why are all the cool looking c-store skins missing from KDF Fleet ships?
Dude, I don't even know.
They literally picked the TRIBBLE ugliests ship models as their fleet ships for KDF. It's not like there aren't some sharp looking Raptor models at the lower tiers (Qorgh & Pach) ... and they pick the Samraw and Qin
Actually, if you use parts from the Norgh and the Ning'Tao, I think those two anyhow, you can make some slick looking Birds of Prey. 16k hull though... *shudder*
Earlier in the post I expressed some misgivings about the hull strength on one of the new BoPs. I didn't feel I was "good enough" to captain a 16,000 hp ship in end game content with any degree of success.
I finally find a post where a better captain than I expresses concern so I feel somewhat validated. To put the numbers into perspective I sent a Fed VA window shopping for shuttles (there is a larger selection to check against)
Danube, Yellowstone, Delta, Yacht: 18000
TOS Shuttle and 8/10?(the free one): 10-12,000
Peregrine: 16500
I was done shopping before I checked out the stealth fighter so I didn't include it. This is just wrong. I don't think it's necessary to comment on the Danube and friends. A two seater fighter(piloted by a VA) has a higher base hull than a fleet ship intended for end game content.
I am very worried but maybe I should be looking forward to how I'll be a rockstar when I play shuttle events with my crazy bridge crew:rolleyes:
Earlier in the post I expressed some misgivings about the hull strength on one of the new BoPs. I didn't feel I was "good enough" to captain a 16,000 hp ship in end game content with any degree of success.
I finally find a post where a better captain than I expresses concern so I feel somewhat validated. To put the numbers into perspective I sent a Fed VA window shopping for shuttles (there is a larger selection to check against)
Danube, Yellowstone, Delta, Yacht: 18000
TOS Shuttle and 8/10?(the free one): 10-12,000
Peregrine: 16500
I was done shopping before I checked out the stealth fighter so I didn't include it. This is just wrong. I don't think it's necessary to comment on the Danube and friends. A two seater fighter(piloted by a VA) has a higher base hull than a fleet ship intended for end game content.
I am very worried but maybe I should be looking forward to how I'll be a rockstar when I play shuttle events with my crazy bridge crew:rolleyes:
Which is why it's so laughable when the smooth heads cry about OP the BoP is...
But a shuttle with more Hull than a T5 ship, well, what's so bad about that...? :rolleyes:
Lord Krueg
KBF CO We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
OP kbflordkrueg Which is why it's so laughable when the smooth heads cry about OP the BoP is...
But a shuttle with more Hull than a T5 ship, well, what's so bad about that...?
This is essentially the root of my disappointment with the disparity between the two factions that appears to be a continuing process. On one one hand the outcry around the Armitage and it's "inadequete" hull compared to ships of it's class(identifying it as an escort and ignoring it's role as a carrier) and tier(call it a five, the plus designation is superflous) necessitates a patch fix. On the other hand designing a BoP that lacks the hull of a shuttle is acceptable.
Someone please explain to me the difference between whining and what must be constructive criticism when development capitulates in the wake of it.
Earlier in the post I expressed some misgivings about the hull strength on one of the new BoPs. I didn't feel I was "good enough" to captain a 16,000 hp ship in end game content with any degree of success.
I finally find a post where a better captain than I expresses concern so I feel somewhat validated. To put the numbers into perspective I sent a Fed VA window shopping for shuttles (there is a larger selection to check against)
Danube, Yellowstone, Delta, Yacht: 18000
TOS Shuttle and 8/10?(the free one): 10-12,000
Peregrine: 16500
I was done shopping before I checked out the stealth fighter so I didn't include it. This is just wrong. I don't think it's necessary to comment on the Danube and friends. A two seater fighter(piloted by a VA) has a higher base hull than a fleet ship intended for end game content.
I am very worried but maybe I should be looking forward to how I'll be a rockstar when I play shuttle events with my crazy bridge crew:rolleyes:
I really didn't pay much attention but it really has less hull than some shuttles? Wow really getting shafted on that one. No lt cmdr slot is worth a tin can hull that will come apart if you sneeze on it.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
The wiki, as accurate as it is, shows the Delta with base hull of 6000, the To'duj with 5500... but these also scale with the character rank, so the effect may well be upwards of the Ning'tao.
Even with the B'rel Retrofit's hull rating, hull is not something to rely on with endgame content. It's not even a Hegh'ta in terms of hull. I still do Elite STFs with it, and I play a vital role, with the ability to dish out DPS and put out Commander Sci Boff CC. My Qin is way more survivable than either.
If I am too close to a Gate & get gate hate, then I die. If I steal agro too quickly with the Tac cube, and the cube has a bunch of torpedoes ready to shoot at me, then I also die pretty often. If I launch a HY Tricobalt too close to the enemy, then I die.
This would be improved with Engineering consoles to buff my kinetic resists, but I use Engineering slots for my Rule 62, Borg, and an RCS console. I am totally dedicated to my kill/cc role, and run nothing for survivability in Elite STFs.
I can't imagine getting anything else but the Ning'tao when I can do so with my fleet.
You know, in all honesty, I think the KDF gets the better deal out of season 6. Not only is the KDF starbase much more atmospheric (like a cross between a 1920s art deco coffee pot and a dieselpunk missile silo) The ships mostly seem to have better stats. a lot of the fed ships may LOOK better, but are essentially VA rank ships with stats the same or weaker than current free RA rank ships of the same type. Based on stats the only really impressive one is the fleet armitage.
The K'Tinga fleet retrofit is going to be a nightmare for the feds in PvP. It's got cruiser hull points on something that can out-turn most of their science ships, AND mount dual heavy cannons, oh yes, and it cloaks too!
The Tor'Khat's hard as nails too, The fleet Qin raptor has 3k more health, 4 engineer consoles and a .9 shield mod making it about as tough as some cruisers, and that Fleet Vo'Quv looks like being the ultimate tank.
46k hull AND two flight decks of BoP, it'll be a Juggernaut!
Oh give me a D7 cruiser
And a crew with lumps on the head
Oh Give me a D7 cruiser
And i'll knock the hell out the Feds
Oh give me a D7 Cruiser
its old and as cheap as can be
Oh give me a D7 cruiser
And one happy commander you will see.
Comments
Can only get the fleet retrofits from being in a fleet with a established starbase, I doubt the would be on the exchange even though the would be good revenue for the fleets.
No, from what they said, no Fleet ship will come with any special abilities. So at best the BoP's will retain their Battle Cloaks.
I could see them finally adding the K'Vort as an upgraded B'rel Refit. But personally, I rather see them change the ship system where Fleets upgrade our existing ships to the next level and let us choose the upgrades.
Like Raptors choosing Tactical or Engineering Ensign slot, or what console to add.
Still. They left out half the raptors and Birds of Prey for refitting, and at a glance the fed list looks more populated.
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
Eyap...
Well see you in game wildman. Looks like I will be doing more of that for me and get the wife to help too.
Not to say the Raptors are great but they are more comparable to fed escorts than the BoPs, second the BoPs have not only battle cloak but they are the only ships in the game where you can 100% customize your bridge officer choices.
No other ships in the game let you choose which type of boff you can have in the commander slot.
No other ship ingame is as handicapped for its advantages as the BoP.
R.I.P
Since no other ships in game has such a big advantage thats to be expected. You want big advantages, expect a big smak over the head in exchange. you don't get free lunches.
No, only the Feddies get to have those. The KDF is just supposed to grovel for scraps and be grateful for anything tossed our way.
Who said I was looking for free lunches?
I was pointing out the fact that the BoP is heavily handicapped for those advantages.
A fact many feds seem to overlook when they bring up the BoP and its Universal slots and the BC or cry " BoPs are OP".
R.I.P
hope the kar fi isnt getting left behind.
From what I gathered from the P1 podcast, the Kar'fi and the Gal-X will most likely come later as both of these vessels did not translate to the fleet system easily.
R.I.P
Exactly.
Having gone with the Defiant for a while in my Fed character, I can say that it just plain survives things that I couldn't imagine in my Hegh'ta. (My B'rel is a totally different animal)
You cannot slap a Battle Cloak into a Defiant "because cloaking device!!!" It simply does not work that way. Even with the Defiant Boff layout, the survivability of the Defiant is just so superior... it's an amazing little ship.
I love the Defiant, and I didn't expect to after running the Qin. I think maybe it's experience. I'm ready to give the basic Qin another shot...
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Thank you sooo much sweety for posting these! OMG *bounces!* I can not wait!!!!
^^
~Z
I wonder how popular it might be. The worst at running BoPs will inevitably poo-poo the thing, but if it's a B'rel +1, that would be the ideal ship for me.
The Hoh'sus BoP has to be a Hegh'ta +1. The turn rate is the same. Crew & hull are in the same ballpark.
Really, that Hoh'sus is our Defiant +1, isn't it? Between KHG & the Cloaking bonus to damage, that's the 5th tactical console. It forces you to run a BoP for the cloak, in a way.
Nothing about the Qin +1 seems all that exciting, and I actually like the Qin now. The 4th Eng console isn't that exciting to me.
It would be cooler if the Som'raw Raptor were the KDF MVAE with that 3rd Sci console... but as it is, I don't care about it as a Sci captain.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
I would prefer it if they would swap the ensign engi and lieutenant tac around, make the Lieutenant uni a science one if necessary.
Just my personall opinion
The problem with the Som'raw is that it's shield multiplier is terrible. So the extra SCI console (which will be used for the 18% shield console 99% of the time) is just an bandaid for it's pathetically weak baseline shields. It's basically a completely inferior version of the Fleet Patrol Escort (granted the Fleet Patrol is an amazing ship, so the Som'raw isn't as bad as it sounds).
The Qin is a jack of all trades boat. Good shields, Great Hull, but then it pisses it away w/ a mediocre BO layout and a 15 base turn rate. Personally nothing makes me want to fly it. It's just boring and mediocre.
The real "star" out of the KDF escorts is the Fleet Scourge Destroyer Retrofit. With an extra SCI slot (3x 18% shields), a .92% shield modifier, and a sci ENS BO slot (for dual TS1s or PH), it should have the hardest shield tank to crack out of all the escorts when you combine it with a Plasmonic Leech console (running weapons and shields at +100) and KHG shields. On top of that is has the maneuverability of a Defiant and a favorable Tac BO layout. I've never run a Escort w/ an ENS SCI, so it'll be interesting to see how it's survivability compares to the ENS Engineer variant.
The Hoh'sus should be fun. I doubt the battle cloak will make up the damage from a 5th tac console, or really even come close. My main problem w/ BoPs in PvE is that their hull withers under fire when you load them up w/ an AoE load out, and Battle Cloaking becomes quite a gamble. In comparison, the only "saving grace" of the Defiant is that it's BO layout makes it inefficient to run all DHCs. If a Defiant could run all DHCs w/ 5 tac consoles and a fully utilized BO layout, it would be extremely OP.
Qin Raptor is dull and ugly.
Somraw Raptor is dull and ugly.
Hoh'sus looks weak and pathetic.
K't'inga looks like it was made out of cardboard, but it's canon, so at least the ToS diehards can jerk off in it I suppose.
Why are all the cool looking c-store skins missing from KDF Fleet ships?
Dude, I don't even know.
They literally picked the TRIBBLE ugliests ship models as their fleet ships for KDF. It's not like there aren't some sharp looking Raptor models at the lower tiers (Qorgh & Pach) ... and they pick the Samraw and Qin
I finally find a post where a better captain than I expresses concern so I feel somewhat validated. To put the numbers into perspective I sent a Fed VA window shopping for shuttles (there is a larger selection to check against)
Danube, Yellowstone, Delta, Yacht: 18000
TOS Shuttle and 8/10?(the free one): 10-12,000
Peregrine: 16500
I was done shopping before I checked out the stealth fighter so I didn't include it. This is just wrong. I don't think it's necessary to comment on the Danube and friends. A two seater fighter(piloted by a VA) has a higher base hull than a fleet ship intended for end game content.
I am very worried but maybe I should be looking forward to how I'll be a rockstar when I play shuttle events with my crazy bridge crew:rolleyes:
Which is why it's so laughable when the smooth heads cry about OP the BoP is...
But a shuttle with more Hull than a T5 ship, well, what's so bad about that...? :rolleyes:
KBF CO
We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
This is essentially the root of my disappointment with the disparity between the two factions that appears to be a continuing process. On one one hand the outcry around the Armitage and it's "inadequete" hull compared to ships of it's class(identifying it as an escort and ignoring it's role as a carrier) and tier(call it a five, the plus designation is superflous) necessitates a patch fix. On the other hand designing a BoP that lacks the hull of a shuttle is acceptable.
Someone please explain to me the difference between whining and what must be constructive criticism when development capitulates in the wake of it.
Starfleet: "Pining" for obvious improvements.
KDF: Whining.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
I really didn't pay much attention but it really has less hull than some shuttles? Wow really getting shafted on that one. No lt cmdr slot is worth a tin can hull that will come apart if you sneeze on it.
Even with the B'rel Retrofit's hull rating, hull is not something to rely on with endgame content. It's not even a Hegh'ta in terms of hull. I still do Elite STFs with it, and I play a vital role, with the ability to dish out DPS and put out Commander Sci Boff CC. My Qin is way more survivable than either.
If I am too close to a Gate & get gate hate, then I die. If I steal agro too quickly with the Tac cube, and the cube has a bunch of torpedoes ready to shoot at me, then I also die pretty often. If I launch a HY Tricobalt too close to the enemy, then I die.
This would be improved with Engineering consoles to buff my kinetic resists, but I use Engineering slots for my Rule 62, Borg, and an RCS console. I am totally dedicated to my kill/cc role, and run nothing for survivability in Elite STFs.
I can't imagine getting anything else but the Ning'tao when I can do so with my fleet.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
The K'Tinga fleet retrofit is going to be a nightmare for the feds in PvP. It's got cruiser hull points on something that can out-turn most of their science ships, AND mount dual heavy cannons, oh yes, and it cloaks too!
The Tor'Khat's hard as nails too, The fleet Qin raptor has 3k more health, 4 engineer consoles and a .9 shield mod making it about as tough as some cruisers, and that Fleet Vo'Quv looks like being the ultimate tank.
46k hull AND two flight decks of BoP, it'll be a Juggernaut!
And a crew with lumps on the head
Oh Give me a D7 cruiser
And i'll knock the hell out the Feds
Oh give me a D7 Cruiser
its old and as cheap as can be
Oh give me a D7 cruiser
And one happy commander you will see.