For a start, I do not know when these forums will come into effect, it could possibly be with the 2013 redesign, could be sooner, could be later. The reason the forums were changed is to integrate it into PWE. That's the bottom line and the main reason why they were changed. It wasn't going to be Cryptic forever.
It is your suggestion that these changes will be relatively soon and that changes are yearly.
Regardless, let's see... your response addresses... yeah, that's right; nothing that it's responding to.
Does answer why it's economically sound to work on changing this over now when you are already working on something to replace it? No.
And if you are working on a new website format that has apparently been in development for some time and will continue to take more than six months of development time (which is your suggestion) it certainly doesn't explain how wasting the resources on that is an excellent proposition added on top of the wasted resources used to make a change to a system that you are in the process of making obsolete.
Nor does it explain why it's an excellent idea to downgrade the outlier rather than upgrade the whole and provide a better product all around (especially if they do want to throw the type of resources you seem to be suggesting at web development).
I'm not longer engaging in that conversation, let's just get back to the matter at hand, I was stating one of my PERSONAL pet hates ("A pet peeve (or pet hate) is a minor annoyance that an individual identifies as particularly annoying to him or her, to a greater degree than others may find it.") and I never said nor implied that it was in effect on the old forums.
The problem is that... you did. Whether you meant to or not you did. The structure of your posts says that.
When someone says they don't like the changes, and you respond that signatures are restricted for a reason and then add your pet peeve into that same paragraph you link all of these things. That may not have been your intent but it was what you achieved. If it was not your intent then you communicated your message incorrectly. This is not a matter of opinion, this is objective fact.
I don't see how it's a downgrade on the old forums, if anything it's an upgrade. The old ones were a real eyesore.
You are obviously in the vast minority in thinking so. All of the displeasure should have tipped you off to that.
Beyond that, it's a downgrade for several reasons...
*No links in our sigs.
*Smaller sigs.
*No html in sigs.
*No custom avatars.
*No report button.
*No ignore button.
*No display of which posters are online.
*No "pay gate" to entry in general forums (I've already seen RMTers on these new boards, a problem we didn't have before).
*Indenting and listing functions don't work (still present as options... but don't do a damn thing).
*Much more of an eyesore (sure, it's not objective, but if it's valid enough for you to use... and I would seem to have the majority on my side).
There are not good things. We have objectively less functionality than we used to. We are being asked to accept less. When do customers ever appreciate that?
I don't see how it's a downgrade on the old forums, if anything it's an upgrade. The old ones were a real eyesore.
I don't have an issue with the look of this forum, just the loss of some function. I can't click on a name and 'View all Posts'. The 'reply with quote' seams to glitch and pickup a different post, Search does not work (database error). I can't ignore users, I can't report posts. And email subscriptions is not working for me. :frown:
The product they are selling is a game, not a forum. The forum still allows us to do what is intended: to talk about the game. I know it's cool to have an avatar, but is it really so important?
The product they are selling is a game, not a forum. The forum still allows us to do what is intended: to talk about the game. I know it's cool to have an avatar, but is it really so important?
Make no mistake that the forums are a part of the product. They are a part of the "game experience". An optional part sure, but a part all the same.
And the avatar is just one issue. But yes, it is very important as it gives a post (at it's very beginning) a visual distinctiveness. It helps to differentiate posts, and thus users and helps to foster a sense of community.
There have been several articles that actually laud the communities of both CO and STO (this includes by media sources which tend to openly revile the games themselves). Have you ever seen such praise for PWE games...? I haven't. Maybe if they tried to foster communities as well as Cryptic has they'd see something similar.
Customization is Cryptic's hallmark for their games. To take away customization where it once existed (like the forums), it tarnishes the hallmark of Cryptic Studios.
I suspect that the name "Cryptic Studios" will soon vanish.
??? Avatars and signatures are the least intensive offence to deal with. 1000 different posts by a user saying something requires 1000 responses by the staff. 1000 posts by a user with an improper avatar requires 1 response and the issue is entirely dealt with.
And a sense of uniformity isn't a good thing. This is supposed to be a community, and you can't foster a sense of community without individuality. People are less apt to form connections with faceless, disembodied names. We are, after all, a very visual species.
Which was NEVER possible. One signature image. 500x150 pixels. No animations. No more than five lines of text. 100x100 avatars. No animations.
None of what you're describing was part of the old forums. Did you never bother to visit them?
I remember seeing a huge signature not so long ago actually, I'm talking as big as your quote here, so you are mistaken.
Make no mistake that the forums are a part of the product.
You know, I'm going to change my mind and agree with you - that the forums are important - because I haven't logged a single STO hour in the last few months, but spend much more time on the forums...
Still, I kind of like the uniformity of the new forums. Just update the low res posting buttons and I'm good with it. It's like a public school that wears uniforms. No distractions.
Cryptic, I thought I was "merging" accounts, not having my old account thrown in the dust bin.
I want my signature, my avatar, my old display name, and my post history, and I want them now. You were well on your way to never getting any more of my money before you pulled this stunt.
Who was the genius behind stripping people from using avatars? Furthermore, who was the genius that decided white text over pure black backround was a good idea?
Who was the genius that thought a 1 pixel signature, no ability for transparency, was a good idea?
You guys have plenty of money, hell I've supplied a fair amount of that money, I know you have the bandwidth to handle a signature with transparency and decent quality. What kind of joke are you trying to pull on us?
Edit: oh look I joined STO forums "Jun 2012" Yeah uh no.
This guy is right. I PAID TO BE ABLE TO POST ON THE ORIGINAL FORUMS. I paid for that, and you have taken from me what I PAID for.
You pay for no PWE web service, including these forums, which are not the old forums. You've paid for the original forums, which have been shut down. And seeing as PWE owned those original forums, they were subject to their Terms of Service, which states they can shut down any service with or without compensation and at their sole digression.
The reason the forums were changed is to integrate it into PWE. That's the bottom line and the main reason why they were changed. It wasn't going to be Cryptic forever.
Who the hell is this schlub trolling legitimately pissed off paying customers?
Look bub, it was Cryptic before Atari. It was Cryptic under Atari. Why the hell shouldn't it be Cryptic under PWE? Your logic is stunted, and you clearly do not speak directly for Cryptic or PWE.
who was the genius that decided white text over pure black backround was a good idea?
I actually prefer white text on dark background for reading purposes (but that's because of my eyes), so I use Custom Stylesheets on a lot of pages on the web.
Some Browsers support it directly, or have the option via Addons (Stylish for example).
Somewhere on this forum is a thread jsut about that. Even if you don't know what CSS is, you can alter the colours with these.
You just need to find the right HEX-Code for the wished colours. Takes 10 Minutes to learn max.
No, no one had that or they got moderated because we were still restricted in image size (500x150 pixels) and to five lines of text.
So you're lying.
Stop that.
no no. i think not. yes the vast majority had decent sigs but there were a handful of forum monkeys that crammed every thing they could into their sigs.... you know the like the people who feel compelled to answer every comment like its thei rjob or directed at them.
Thats why i miss avatars.... I could quickly scroll past people I knew i thought were tools.
like i said, my rule of thumb is if your sig takes up more room than an average post its too damn big
Big Badly done image
Capt X USS Y, Capt A USS B, CAPT C USS D, CApt F USS E (in multi-colored fonts no less)
Janeway: Non Sequitor
Chakotey: Huh
Janeway: I know, Right. smily face
We lost our identities.
We lost our history.
We lost our board that we had just they way we wanted after years of fine-tuning.
PWE cares nothing for star trek or it's fans.
They just want your money.
They don't even want to give you anything for it. If they could do it legally, they would just rob you. They have proven that they have no respect for star trek or for us.
Who the hell is this schlub trolling legitimately pissed off paying customers?
Look bub, it was Cryptic before Atari. It was Cryptic under Atari. Why the hell shouldn't it be Cryptic under PWE? Your logic is stunted, and you clearly do not speak directly for Cryptic or PWE.
No, I do not speak directly for PWE or Cryptic and I can assure you, I am not trolling. You'll learn quickly in the world of free to play that paying means nothing. You're the same as every one else. Scary, isn't it "bub"?
Different companies do things different and frankly, if it wasn't for PWE, you'd probably have no game to play.
Everything was better before PWE got their claws into it.
Especially this forum.
You do realise Atari was selling Cryptic, right? No doubt they would've dropped the studio if PWE hadn't bought it. Consider yourself lucky it wasn't Aeria Games or gPotato... because, y'know, they're awesome! /sarcasm
PWE has it's flaws and likes to do things it's own way, which it's user base is used to by now, you'll eventually get used to it as well.
I suspect that the name "Cryptic Studios" will soon vanish.
I don't think so.
There's really no strong reason to and it is a brand name that is recognized by a lot of Western MMO gamers. I'd never given PW a second thought before they turned up to buy Cryptic.
There might also be a number of legal and financial reasons not to vanish the name.
Sure over time there might be more integration.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
There's really no strong reason to and it is a brand name that is recognized by a lot of Western MMO gamers. I'd never given PW a second thought before they turned up to buy Cryptic.
There might also be a number of legal and financial reasons not to vanish the name.
Sure over time there might be more integration.
Runic Games is another subsidiary development studio of Perfect World and they've kept their name all this time. Cryptic Studios is going nowhere.
I actually prefer white text on dark background for reading purposes (but that's because of my eyes), so I use Custom Stylesheets on a lot of pages on the web.
Some Browsers support it directly, or have the option via Addons (Stylish for example).
Somewhere on this forum is a thread jsut about that. Even if you don't know what CSS is, you can alter the colours with these.
You just need to find the right HEX-Code for the wished colours. Takes 10 Minutes to learn max.
I made a template file for the "Color That Site" Firefox add-on, it's at the bottom of this thread:
PWE has it's flaws and likes to do things it's own way, which it's user base is used to by now, you'll eventually get used to it as well.
On that subject, I hope they learn to adapt to their users more than it sounds like they typically do. Cryptic is actually pretty good at adapting to the users in comparison and we might see some viral changes over time.
US Americans, in particular, don't take well to being told to "deal with it". If something upsets a large number of users, they better pay attention. And I'm sure they're tracking what's going on... I just don't see them caving in when there's a good business reason for doing what they're doing.
The forum change is kind of radical compared to what we're used to, yes. And there's plenty not to like, that's true.
I accept it because I recognize that the two companies are trying to integrate. Ultimately it will be a more efficient use of resources. Since PWE is the bigger company and is the parent, Cryptic's processes are the ones that are going to change if it affects the larger community of customers. It was never going to be likely that PWE switched all its' users over to Cryptic's board system, or that Cryptic would be in a position to manage it if they did.
At the end of the day, it's not the game itself that got radically altered. It was a community board that may not even get used by a majority of their customers.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I can understand people not liking the new forums, but there's some overreaction here. Remember that these are free forums, you don't pay for them, you are not entitled to them. You will simply have to get used to them, even if you do t like being told that.
Hopefully BranFlakes will be able to fanagle a few of the nicer aspects of the old boards over here...
If more of us Kiss-up to him he might just feel like pushing a bit harder for us.
Course, never hurts to bribe him either...
<chuckle>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
While that may be so, you still have a vested interest in PWE. Of course you're going to defend whatever actions they take.
And it isn't change that many of us hate. It's having functions and features taken away for an inferior system that we hate.
ditto the above. I really, REALLY hate "change" when it is for the worse; when someone takes something that was working and swaps it for something inferior. :eek: Was holding out on switching to a PWE account because with a cryptic account you could buy c-points easily in-game. PWE account? Nope.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Comments
It is your suggestion that these changes will be relatively soon and that changes are yearly.
Regardless, let's see... your response addresses... yeah, that's right; nothing that it's responding to.
Does answer why it's economically sound to work on changing this over now when you are already working on something to replace it? No.
And if you are working on a new website format that has apparently been in development for some time and will continue to take more than six months of development time (which is your suggestion) it certainly doesn't explain how wasting the resources on that is an excellent proposition added on top of the wasted resources used to make a change to a system that you are in the process of making obsolete.
Nor does it explain why it's an excellent idea to downgrade the outlier rather than upgrade the whole and provide a better product all around (especially if they do want to throw the type of resources you seem to be suggesting at web development).
The problem is that... you did. Whether you meant to or not you did. The structure of your posts says that.
When someone says they don't like the changes, and you respond that signatures are restricted for a reason and then add your pet peeve into that same paragraph you link all of these things. That may not have been your intent but it was what you achieved. If it was not your intent then you communicated your message incorrectly. This is not a matter of opinion, this is objective fact.
You are obviously in the vast minority in thinking so. All of the displeasure should have tipped you off to that.
Beyond that, it's a downgrade for several reasons...
*No links in our sigs.
*Smaller sigs.
*No html in sigs.
*No custom avatars.
*No report button.
*No ignore button.
*No display of which posters are online.
*No "pay gate" to entry in general forums (I've already seen RMTers on these new boards, a problem we didn't have before).
*Indenting and listing functions don't work (still present as options... but don't do a damn thing).
*Much more of an eyesore (sure, it's not objective, but if it's valid enough for you to use... and I would seem to have the majority on my side).
There are not good things. We have objectively less functionality than we used to. We are being asked to accept less. When do customers ever appreciate that?
I don't have an issue with the look of this forum, just the loss of some function. I can't click on a name and 'View all Posts'. The 'reply with quote' seams to glitch and pickup a different post, Search does not work (database error). I can't ignore users, I can't report posts. And email subscriptions is not working for me. :frown:
Make no mistake that the forums are a part of the product. They are a part of the "game experience". An optional part sure, but a part all the same.
And the avatar is just one issue. But yes, it is very important as it gives a post (at it's very beginning) a visual distinctiveness. It helps to differentiate posts, and thus users and helps to foster a sense of community.
There have been several articles that actually laud the communities of both CO and STO (this includes by media sources which tend to openly revile the games themselves). Have you ever seen such praise for PWE games...? I haven't. Maybe if they tried to foster communities as well as Cryptic has they'd see something similar.
I suspect that the name "Cryptic Studios" will soon vanish.
Member since December 2009
I remember seeing a huge signature not so long ago actually, I'm talking as big as your quote here, so you are mistaken.
You know, I'm going to change my mind and agree with you - that the forums are important - because I haven't logged a single STO hour in the last few months, but spend much more time on the forums...
Still, I kind of like the uniformity of the new forums. Just update the low res posting buttons and I'm good with it. It's like a public school that wears uniforms. No distractions.
I want my signature, my avatar, my old display name, and my post history, and I want them now. You were well on your way to never getting any more of my money before you pulled this stunt.
This guy is right. I PAID TO BE ABLE TO POST ON THE ORIGINAL FORUMS. I paid for that, and you have taken from me what I PAID for.
Wʬ g+ fᵇ tᵂ
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You pay for no PWE web service, including these forums, which are not the old forums. You've paid for the original forums, which have been shut down. And seeing as PWE owned those original forums, they were subject to their Terms of Service, which states they can shut down any service with or without compensation and at their sole digression.
Who the hell is this schlub trolling legitimately pissed off paying customers?
Look bub, it was Cryptic before Atari. It was Cryptic under Atari. Why the hell shouldn't it be Cryptic under PWE? Your logic is stunted, and you clearly do not speak directly for Cryptic or PWE.
Wʬ g+ fᵇ tᵂ
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I actually prefer white text on dark background for reading purposes (but that's because of my eyes), so I use Custom Stylesheets on a lot of pages on the web.
Some Browsers support it directly, or have the option via Addons (Stylish for example).
Somewhere on this forum is a thread jsut about that. Even if you don't know what CSS is, you can alter the colours with these.
You just need to find the right HEX-Code for the wished colours. Takes 10 Minutes to learn max.
no no. i think not. yes the vast majority had decent sigs but there were a handful of forum monkeys that crammed every thing they could into their sigs.... you know the like the people who feel compelled to answer every comment like its thei rjob or directed at them.
Thats why i miss avatars.... I could quickly scroll past people I knew i thought were tools.
like i said, my rule of thumb is if your sig takes up more room than an average post its too damn big
We lost our history.
We lost our board that we had just they way we wanted after years of fine-tuning.
PWE cares nothing for star trek or it's fans.
They just want your money.
They don't even want to give you anything for it. If they could do it legally, they would just rob you. They have proven that they have no respect for star trek or for us.
Join Date: Sep 2008
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: CHANGE THE FORUMS BACK !!!
No, I do not speak directly for PWE or Cryptic and I can assure you, I am not trolling. You'll learn quickly in the world of free to play that paying means nothing. You're the same as every one else. Scary, isn't it "bub"?
Different companies do things different and frankly, if it wasn't for PWE, you'd probably have no game to play.
No.
Everything was better before PWE got their claws into it.
Especially this forum.
Join Date: Sep 2008
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: CHANGE THE FORUMS BACK !!!
You do realise Atari was selling Cryptic, right? No doubt they would've dropped the studio if PWE hadn't bought it. Consider yourself lucky it wasn't Aeria Games or gPotato... because, y'know, they're awesome! /sarcasm
PWE has it's flaws and likes to do things it's own way, which it's user base is used to by now, you'll eventually get used to it as well.
I don't think so.
There's really no strong reason to and it is a brand name that is recognized by a lot of Western MMO gamers. I'd never given PW a second thought before they turned up to buy Cryptic.
There might also be a number of legal and financial reasons not to vanish the name.
Sure over time there might be more integration.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Runic Games is another subsidiary development studio of Perfect World and they've kept their name all this time. Cryptic Studios is going nowhere.
Apparently a current/former PWE employee.
Rusty Hearts being another PWE game. :rolleyes:
Mine Trap Supporter
I made a template file for the "Color That Site" Firefox add-on, it's at the bottom of this thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=275711
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
I was never an employee of PWE, I was a moderator, hence why I worked on the forums. People really do hate change ._.
_____________________________________________________________
On that subject, I hope they learn to adapt to their users more than it sounds like they typically do. Cryptic is actually pretty good at adapting to the users in comparison and we might see some viral changes over time.
US Americans, in particular, don't take well to being told to "deal with it". If something upsets a large number of users, they better pay attention. And I'm sure they're tracking what's going on... I just don't see them caving in when there's a good business reason for doing what they're doing.
The forum change is kind of radical compared to what we're used to, yes. And there's plenty not to like, that's true.
I accept it because I recognize that the two companies are trying to integrate. Ultimately it will be a more efficient use of resources. Since PWE is the bigger company and is the parent, Cryptic's processes are the ones that are going to change if it affects the larger community of customers. It was never going to be likely that PWE switched all its' users over to Cryptic's board system, or that Cryptic would be in a position to manage it if they did.
At the end of the day, it's not the game itself that got radically altered. It was a community board that may not even get used by a majority of their customers.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
While that may be so, you still have a vested interest in PWE. Of course you're going to defend whatever actions they take.
And it isn't change that many of us hate. It's having functions and features taken away for an inferior system that we hate.
Mine Trap Supporter
More likely, I'll eventually spend my time and money on things that have nothing to do with PWE.
Wʬ g+ fᵇ tᵂ
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Your choice, have fun [:
Just to mention, this is the first time I haven;t had a problem with reading these forums with the white on black.
Too many users think a dark color on a dark background is a good idea. Unfortunately that is very unreadable to many with less than 20/20 vision.
Hopefully BranFlakes will be able to fanagle a few of the nicer aspects of the old boards over here...
If more of us Kiss-up to him he might just feel like pushing a bit harder for us.
Course, never hurts to bribe him either...
<chuckle>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
ditto the above. I really, REALLY hate "change" when it is for the worse; when someone takes something that was working and swaps it for something inferior. :eek: Was holding out on switching to a PWE account because with a cryptic account you could buy c-points easily in-game. PWE account? Nope.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher