Infinite Healing vs Infinite Damage - that'S STO balance model. Subnuke/Science is tie-breaker.
In PvE, it's
(Infinite Healing + Infinite Damage) vs (Pathetic Healing + Pathetic Damage). Subnuke/Science is to TRIBBLE off the player or bore him, depending on who uses it (player = boredom, NPC = TRIBBLE)
Mustrum "My first char was a Science Captain flying in a Science Vessel and I liked it." Ridcully
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Uhm. All he said was that it does not require much talent to move outside that defined pocket of damage values. Which is true, i mean, it's just pressing several buttons shortly after one another.
That does not even remotely imply that the people in that video did not have any skill or what else you people want to read into it.
You don't find anything wrong with the comment because you refuse to acknowledge the realities of this game. I spouted off because while you're a terrible pilot who nonetheless buys things from the C-Store so is a boon to STO, he's a dev who can change the course of the game. You can live in your giant hollowed out mushroom in a forest, yelling at the squirrels working your keyboard, without hurting this game. His misconceptions have actual implications for the future of STO.
He said that buff stacking, alpha strikes, and focus fire are not just moving outside the pocket, but almost completely ignoring it.
Buff stacking involves pressing several buttons shortly after one another. It also involves meta-gaming to choose which buffs to load. It involves choosing the time and target so the buffs aren't mitigated by defensive buffs (thereby causing the damage to stay "in the pocket").
Alpha strikes and focus fire involve situational awareness and communication. "Who just handed out their HE? Shoot that guy." That takes talent and effort.
I'm not surprised that you don't understand this. You refuse to acknowledge that the hand at the conn has anything to do with the result of a match.
I have a problem with anybody who watches that fight and makes a comment that there was little talent or effort. I saw one of the meanest furballs STO is likely to produce. Saying you saw anything else is disingenuous or means you're an amateur.
it's just pressing several buttons shortly after one another.
Quoted again for how much it says about you as a player. Your aversion to the word "piloting" would be a non-issue if you just didn't want to have your immersion broken. But you refuse to acknowledge that position, heading, firing arcs, time on target, and a dozen other factors are relevant to this game.
But then, maybe you're saying that all of STO is just pressing several buttons shortly after one another? Don't you have 5 people sitting at your keyboard pressing it for you?
I think I'm starting to see where you're coming from, soph. It's all 1's and 0's, right? So there's nothing to attribute to the person controlling the ship. It's really all just picking the right build and letting things play out. Is this like "There is no spoon"?
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
You're reading a bit too much redricky. I think it's true what he said - you click 4 buttons (provided they are CRF, APA, APB and BO or HYT) perhaps, and you beat the game's expected pocket of damage values. It's that easy.
Actually playing through PvP in this environment can be a bit more than just clicking 4 buttons - it depends on timing and coordination. But just these 4 buttons already will already leave those expected damage values, as evidenced by people one-passing Borg Cubes.
Contrast this with a game like The Old Republic (not because it's the best game to compare to, but it's the one I know abit) - if you fight NPCs there, you are actually expected to use most of your clickable abilities, and you will get hurt in the process. And against some harder monsters, you may even need to optimize your rotation a bit more than just firing off everything you have.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
No, but because I have parsed the text correctly. This has nothing to do with how the game works. All he said was, in my words: "It does not require talent to push the damage beyond certain thresholds".
Nothing is said in that post if (and if yes, then how much) skill is required to actually use that buffed damage in battle.
So why don't you all become a little bit more relaxed?
PvP is serious business. No time to be relaxed.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Im lazy with my keybinds that doesn't mean that there arn't people who use tac intiative and rapidfire 3 and then rapidfire 3 or more complex builds with bo and hiy, The fact is my ship was setup with glider and it makes no sence atm to run with torps because my damage is fine even if I dont power all buffs perfectly.
All he said was, in my words: "It does not require talent to push the damage beyond certain thresholds".
Nothing is said in that post if (and if yes, then how much) skill is required to actually use that buffed damage in battle.
Thank you for simply and eloquently clarifying this for me. It was never my intent to downplay the amount of skill and experience this community has with the game's mechanics, only to illustrate how easy it is to exceed design expectations.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I think the main reason for irritation was that this match - which was regarded as good and fun by everyone involved - was taken as an example of unintended mechanics.
Thank you for simply and eloquently clarifying this for me. It was never my intent to downplay the amount of skill and experience this community has with the game's mechanics, only to illustrate how easy it is to exceed design expectations.
Having followed balance and class design discussions on the TOR forums and the respective Dev statements over there - I always had the impression STO didn't even have any design expectations to begin with and everything was just made based on guesstimates. No offense is meant with that - I always had the impression a lot of game design worked like that. Or rather was done that way, I wouldn't speak of working.
Did you find some old document in the attic/old back-up server implying otherwise?
Just a fair warning (both for Devs and the players): Nerfing the engineering power buff consoles by 50 % is not even a start to get back to those design specs. (Personally, I think it may even be the wrong move in the first place. You need to nerf what power - specifically weapon power - does more than the ways to boost it.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I think the main reason for irritation was that this match - which was regarded as good and fun by everyone involved - was taken as an example of unintended mechanics.
Are you requesting this as a feature, or asking how to do it? Cryptic doesn't condone the use of third-party client mods, such as the one used in this video.
I think the main reason for irritation was that this match - which was regarded as good and fun by everyone involved - was taken as an example of unintended mechanics.
3 HOURS? I had a 1h15min match once, and my head hurt and my eyes were watering after that.
I have to salute to you and your endurance to finish a match that took that long.
Wouldn't want to be in one.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Vornek@oberlerchner123 - Join Date: July 2008
Thank you for simply and eloquently clarifying this for me. It was never my intent to downplay the amount of skill and experience this community has with the game's mechanics, only to illustrate how easy it is to exceed design expectations.
This is very true... with just 2-3 hits of the buttons ships go from 2% hull to 100%... and shields go from paper thing to 75% resist and back to 100%... often with the same 3 buttons. The skill involved is so taxing... and then you have to decide what to do with those buffs... I mean do you fly up or up or up some more. Its just so nerve racking. Luckily the system has enlarged the "pocket" in the last year and a half of patches so at least when that darn damage stacker uses Evasive and omega and that evil aux to damp to get up above me again I know I can push my other 3 buttons that will take me from 20%-100% hull again...
We will fly around like that for half an hour easy... it it wasn't for those darn Critz I think my enjoyment level would be much higher... Hey serious question time...
The borg don't get to crit anymore right... Why can players? It just doesn't seem right to me.
.The Spanish Inquisition. TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube) /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
Just wondering how did you get the different BO power icons to be different colors?
The current default annoys me i want different colors too
Skip
I guess nobody wants to answer this, but they are essentially overwriting the game textures with their own modified textures by availing of a local folder the game can read data from - and which Cryptic makes available for some reason. Some people also do this to display truer (color) LCARS images across computer displays in game as well.
All of these changes only effect what you see on your own client.
This may or may not be considered a breach of sections 9 and 21 of the PWE EULA/TOS, but since Cryptic have not removed the ability for people to do this, it remains ambiguous at best as to whether its permitted or not.
I would advise against doing this yourself unless you have more information from a Cryptic GM or Dev.
With such extremes in damage spikes against hull and shield buff/heals it is no wonder that in PvP sci captains and their Sub Nucs are the deal breakers.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Just wondering how did you get the different BO power icons to be different colors?
The current default annoys me i want different colors too
Skip
It requires modding of the local graphic files. There was a fellow about a year and a half ago that took the effort to make these modifications. He had a website where he distributed them for free but the site was quickly abandoned and the files were removed.
While the mod did not affect the mechanics of the game in any way and the changes were only visible client-side (i.e. to you only), Cryptic said that modding the game files is a no-no.
Never the less, the ability to place and use modded files is inherent in the game. So, make of that statement what you will. :cool:
I don't think it's ever been said that they completely disallow client modding, at least i have some quotes saying the opposite at my computer back home.
However, what has been said is that discussion about it on the forums is not allowed. So let's not do it!
.The Spanish Inquisition. TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube) /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
This video shows that pocket being almost completely ignored without much effort or talent being expended. That's how it is informative.
Hah!!! I can't believe he said that... Well.. I mean, I agree though. You guys all suck.
.The Spanish Inquisition. TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube) /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
...
It clearly illustrated some of the inconsistencies we currently experience with core combat mechanics. The game is designed to operate in a specific "pocket" of variables, but things like buff stacking, alpha strikes and focus fire make both damage and healing spike dramatically outside of those intended variables. It is a personal goal of mine to see the entire game - both PvE and PvP - brought closer to living inside the original design.
This video shows that pocket being almost completely ignored without much effort or talent being expended. That's how it is informative.
:eek: I can't believe it. Ole "quell the haters" has eloquently admitted that the game balance is ****ed up.
At least it's his personal goal to fix the systems. He's already put in a patch for the chronotons. Here's to more balance to come.
(...btw Borticus, you really should have "quell" in your sig instead of "play smart". Especially after that Massively issue, it would give you more character. :cool:
I guess nobody wants to answer this, but they are essentially overwriting the game textures with their own modified textures by availing of a local folder the game can read data from - and which Cryptic makes available for some reason. Some people also do this to display truer (color) LCARS images across computer displays in game as well.
All of these changes only effect what you see on your own client.
This may or may not be considered a breach of sections 9 and 21 of the PWE EULA/TOS, but since Cryptic have not removed the ability for people to do this, it remains ambiguous at best as to whether its permitted or not.
I would advise against doing this yourself unless you have more information from a Cryptic GM or Dev.
Indeed, its just simply overwriting/modifying game files, unextract packages, repack them, i.e.
I dont care whether this is forbidden or not, i do not use it myself because i have no trouble seperating Sci/Tac/Engi abilities on my tray really. I seriously dont care whether people use this. Its just a client side modification which does in no way affect anything else.
I think the main reason for irritation was that this match - which was regarded as good and fun by everyone involved - was taken as an example of unintended mechanics.
Haaa!! I loved that match. 2 bad i didnt reach 10M Dmg lol.
I wish the stats showed both Shield and Hull damage like heals are shown as both Shield and Hull. Thats why statistically healing always seems much more. But i think that the resistances that is TRIBBLE this PvP rather than the heal numbers itself. Because statistically I think if Shield damage was also counted in the statistics the dmg numbers would be pretty equal to the heal numbers.
Its also alot of extend that both parties use, like RSF (on engi captain skill) when properly specced and used on max shield power, almost nobody can punch tru it.
But yeh. I had pain in my back after that match.. I was about to faint away there hahaha
Comments
In PvE, it's
(Infinite Healing + Infinite Damage) vs (Pathetic Healing + Pathetic Damage). Subnuke/Science is to TRIBBLE off the player or bore him, depending on who uses it (player = boredom, NPC = TRIBBLE)
Mustrum "My first char was a Science Captain flying in a Science Vessel and I liked it." Ridcully
He said that buff stacking, alpha strikes, and focus fire are not just moving outside the pocket, but almost completely ignoring it.
Buff stacking involves pressing several buttons shortly after one another. It also involves meta-gaming to choose which buffs to load. It involves choosing the time and target so the buffs aren't mitigated by defensive buffs (thereby causing the damage to stay "in the pocket").
Alpha strikes and focus fire involve situational awareness and communication. "Who just handed out their HE? Shoot that guy." That takes talent and effort.
I'm not surprised that you don't understand this. You refuse to acknowledge that the hand at the conn has anything to do with the result of a match.
I have a problem with anybody who watches that fight and makes a comment that there was little talent or effort. I saw one of the meanest furballs STO is likely to produce. Saying you saw anything else is disingenuous or means you're an amateur. Quoted again for how much it says about you as a player. Your aversion to the word "piloting" would be a non-issue if you just didn't want to have your immersion broken. But you refuse to acknowledge that position, heading, firing arcs, time on target, and a dozen other factors are relevant to this game.
But then, maybe you're saying that all of STO is just pressing several buttons shortly after one another? Don't you have 5 people sitting at your keyboard pressing it for you?
I think I'm starting to see where you're coming from, soph. It's all 1's and 0's, right? So there's nothing to attribute to the person controlling the ship. It's really all just picking the right build and letting things play out. Is this like "There is no spoon"?
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Actually playing through PvP in this environment can be a bit more than just clicking 4 buttons - it depends on timing and coordination. But just these 4 buttons already will already leave those expected damage values, as evidenced by people one-passing Borg Cubes.
Contrast this with a game like The Old Republic (not because it's the best game to compare to, but it's the one I know abit) - if you fight NPCs there, you are actually expected to use most of your clickable abilities, and you will get hurt in the process. And against some harder monsters, you may even need to optimize your rotation a bit more than just firing off everything you have.
Thank you for simply and eloquently clarifying this for me. It was never my intent to downplay the amount of skill and experience this community has with the game's mechanics, only to illustrate how easy it is to exceed design expectations.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The truly problematic matches are ones like this: http://denkbassin.de/extern/sto/2012-05-19-TSI-Pandas-4v4-2h50.jpg
That match took nearly 3 hours and wasn't particularly enjoyable.
EDIT: Here is the log file of that match, if anyone's interested: http://denkbassin.de/extern/sto/2012-18-05-TSI-Pandas-2h50.zip
It's a 12MB zip that unpacks to a 200MB log file.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
Did you find some old document in the attic/old back-up server implying otherwise?
Just a fair warning (both for Devs and the players): Nerfing the engineering power buff consoles by 50 % is not even a start to get back to those design specs. (Personally, I think it may even be the wrong move in the first place. You need to nerf what power - specifically weapon power - does more than the ways to boost it.)
Almost 3 hour match? 18 Million Healing (one player only)?
I couldn't sit through that. I'd unequip shields or fake a heart attack. Or would never PvP again.
The current default annoys me i want different colors too
Skip
Name: Peewee28
Join Date: Nov 2009
Agreed!
Colour coding the power/weapons icons of the HUD would greatly assist focussing on certains abilities.
Another thing that would be helpful is giving the cooldown timer text more contrast against its icon in the HUD.
Commander, Starfleet Corps of Engineers • 7th Fleet
Commanding Officer, U.S.S. HEART OF OAK • NX-1759-B • Odyssey class Star Cruiser ( Lexington Tactical Configuration))
(Steam - feel free to follow/friend me : )
3 HOURS? I had a 1h15min match once, and my head hurt and my eyes were watering after that.
I have to salute to you and your endurance to finish a match that took that long.
Wouldn't want to be in one.
Vornek@oberlerchner123 - Join Date: July 2008
or is that just a byproduct of a larger screen?
Neverwinter Wiki
I run mine at around .80.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
This is very true... with just 2-3 hits of the buttons ships go from 2% hull to 100%... and shields go from paper thing to 75% resist and back to 100%... often with the same 3 buttons. The skill involved is so taxing... and then you have to decide what to do with those buffs... I mean do you fly up or up or up some more. Its just so nerve racking. Luckily the system has enlarged the "pocket" in the last year and a half of patches so at least when that darn damage stacker uses Evasive and omega and that evil aux to damp to get up above me again I know I can push my other 3 buttons that will take me from 20%-100% hull again...
We will fly around like that for half an hour easy... it it wasn't for those darn Critz I think my enjoyment level would be much higher... Hey serious question time...
The borg don't get to crit anymore right... Why can players? It just doesn't seem right to me.
larger is better! :DD
I run 1.00
TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube)
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
I guess nobody wants to answer this, but they are essentially overwriting the game textures with their own modified textures by availing of a local folder the game can read data from - and which Cryptic makes available for some reason. Some people also do this to display truer (color) LCARS images across computer displays in game as well.
All of these changes only effect what you see on your own client.
This may or may not be considered a breach of sections 9 and 21 of the PWE EULA/TOS, but since Cryptic have not removed the ability for people to do this, it remains ambiguous at best as to whether its permitted or not.
I would advise against doing this yourself unless you have more information from a Cryptic GM or Dev.
It requires modding of the local graphic files. There was a fellow about a year and a half ago that took the effort to make these modifications. He had a website where he distributed them for free but the site was quickly abandoned and the files were removed.
While the mod did not affect the mechanics of the game in any way and the changes were only visible client-side (i.e. to you only), Cryptic said that modding the game files is a no-no.
Never the less, the ability to place and use modded files is inherent in the game. So, make of that statement what you will. :cool:
However, what has been said is that discussion about it on the forums is not allowed. So let's not do it!
TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube)
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
Hah!!! I can't believe he said that... Well.. I mean, I agree though. You guys all suck.
TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube)
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
:eek: I can't believe it. Ole "quell the haters" has eloquently admitted that the game balance is ****ed up.
At least it's his personal goal to fix the systems. He's already put in a patch for the chronotons. Here's to more balance to come.
(...btw Borticus, you really should have "quell" in your sig instead of "play smart". Especially after that Massively issue, it would give you more character. :cool:
We can all look back on this and laugh, right?
http://www.cafepress.com/jupiterforce.439675271#
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPYF2p-cGx8
That's better.
Indeed, its just simply overwriting/modifying game files, unextract packages, repack them, i.e.
I dont care whether this is forbidden or not, i do not use it myself because i have no trouble seperating Sci/Tac/Engi abilities on my tray really. I seriously dont care whether people use this. Its just a client side modification which does in no way affect anything else.
Haaa!! I loved that match. 2 bad i didnt reach 10M Dmg lol.
I wish the stats showed both Shield and Hull damage like heals are shown as both Shield and Hull. Thats why statistically healing always seems much more. But i think that the resistances that is TRIBBLE this PvP rather than the heal numbers itself. Because statistically I think if Shield damage was also counted in the statistics the dmg numbers would be pretty equal to the heal numbers.
Its also alot of extend that both parties use, like RSF (on engi captain skill) when properly specced and used on max shield power, almost nobody can punch tru it.
But yeh. I had pain in my back after that match.. I was about to faint away there hahaha
These don't include resists, it's only raw damage output.