This is actually something that concerns me greatly. I greatly dislike the idea of fleets that are highly formal with lots of mandatory stuff. Having those around for those who enjoy them is fine, but the thought of having to be in one to get the most out of Starbases troubles me.
In fact, the entire Starbase schema feels like it's just setting up people for a lot of drama and heartache. My experience with Internet stuff over the past 15 years is that most of the time you're going to get screwed over when involving other people, so I'd like to be able to go solo. Having large amounts of the content locked away like this does not, IMO, count as 'solo' (and I don't consider PUGs 'solo' either).
For instance, the Sovereign-R is a ship I want rather badly, but if it goes to Starbase-only or something equally bad, I'm probably not going to get it. The thought of it actually being Starbase-only makes me shudder, as it seems like it will be months of grinding combined with being stabbed in the back (or front) and possibly requiring that you yourself do some stabbing, just to get a /chance/ at the ship, and having to do it time after time on every toon I want it on. I've in fact held off on picking up more alt slots because I shudder at the idea of repeating it for every toon. That alone makes me want to stay away from Starbases, and has me considering cancelling my subscription if it ends up that way.
Incidentally, devs, since I know at least one has responded to this thread... PLEASE have the Sovereign-R as an C-Store account-wide unlock, and consider this for other ships along these lines. I really want to get it, but having to deal with the very thing I came to STO to get AWAY from makes it seem like getting what you want from STO is going to have most of the fun drained out of it and end up being a quagmire of squabbling and fruitless toil. I also shudder at the potential outcomes for fans of other ships that end up Starbase-only.
I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt because it seems like Starbases will have a lot of great stuff to them, but... seems like they might be outweighed by the bad stuff, or the effective (even if not literal) manditoriness, that will result. I'm hoping for the best, but also hoping the devs listen in case it doesn't turn out that way.
This is actually something that concerns me greatly. I greatly dislike the idea of fleets that are highly formal with lots of mandatory stuff. Having those around for those who enjoy them is fine, but the thought of having to be in one to get the most out of Starbases troubles me.
In fact, the entire Starbase schema feels like it's just setting up people for a lot of drama and heartache. My experience with Internet stuff over the past 15 years is that most of the time you're going to get screwed over when involving other people, so I'd like to be able to go solo. Having large amounts of the content locked away like this does not, IMO, count as 'solo' (and I don't consider PUGs 'solo' either).
For instance, the Sovereign-R is a ship I want rather badly, but if it goes to Starbase-only or something equally bad, I'm probably not going to get it. The thought of it actually being Starbase-only makes me shudder, as it seems like it will be months of grinding combined with being stabbed in the back (or front) and possibly requiring that you yourself do some stabbing, just to get a /chance/ at the ship, and having to do it time after time on every toon I want it on. I've in fact held off on picking up more alt slots because I shudder at the idea of repeating it for every toon. That alone makes me want to stay away from Starbases, and has me considering cancelling my subscription if it ends up that way.
Incidentally, devs, since I know at least one has responded to this thread... PLEASE have the Sovereign-R as an C-Store account-wide unlock, and consider this for other ships along these lines. I really want to get it, but having to deal with the very thing I came to STO to get AWAY from makes it seem like getting what you want from STO is going to have most of the fun drained out of it and end up being a quagmire of squabbling and fruitless toil. I also shudder at the potential outcomes for fans of other ships that end up Starbase-only.
I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt because it seems like Starbases will have a lot of great stuff to them, but... seems like they might be outweighed by the bad stuff, or the effective (even if not literal) manditoriness, that will result. I'm hoping for the best, but also hoping the devs listen in case it doesn't turn out that way.
Squabbling and fruitless toil keep people logging in as they depend on RNG and Lockbox Megamillions to aquire the latest equipment and ships. Cause you gotta keep up with the Jonses. C-Store ships provide great burst once and done revenue but not the sustained revenue over time of lockbox key gambling.
yes, you have to be in a fleet to build a starbase.
No, there is nothing stopping you from being a fleet of one. Or a fleet of only you and your alts.
But I would hope it would encourage players to play with other players. There are plenty of casual/smaller fleets out there, that won't require you to be on at certain times, or for a certain duration.
sadly though i can imagine the actual outcome being something along the lines of people being in a fleet for a group star base then using one of their own alts to create their "own" starbase since there isnt any houseing and whatnot that can be customized.... and so they can get the ships/gear/equipment that can only be used by a handful of people from each starbase etc etc.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
with certain projects will they need lock boxes? if so i have around 950 give or take you guys are going to regret not picking them up
Personally, I think that the big worry among some people (myself included) is that they might get screwed over in the way of the ships you can get from fleet requisitions due to fleet politics. Or inactive fleet officers (who I presume are the ones who have to hand out the new ships). Or someone sniping the ship before they can get it like its an ebay auction with a Buy Now price.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
Honestly I think the biggest problem is people dealing with other people, and not sure there's anything devs can do about that. I'm a loner, not in a fleet, probably never will be, but not feeling particularly alienated. They'll get their cool clubhouse to do their social stuff, I'll pick a random star and set a course and leave em all behind. Only real alienation will be if the perks of fleet stuff, in my mind the ships mostly, start affecting all the non-social stuff and change the dynamic that fleets become required. Would I love all the stuff for free? Certainly, but I understand this is a business. Likewise I understand that if you lower the bar too much, make the stuff too accessible, then the big fleets will finish every possible project overnight and start complaining about lack of content again. Maybe take all this less as dev criticism (though some people will always whine, heck with em), and more just players debating other players as to the merits and drawbacks in anticipation of the new release.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
From the info out so far it seems like Heretic has done a great job balancing everything on a conceptual level. I'll leave the specifics for when I get a better handle on it in Tribble over the next few weeks.
I have a hard time trying to think of a more optimal solution that handles fleets as diverse as 1 player to those 500 strong.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do? ............
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Don't take this the wrong way, I am very happy the way fleets and the proposed Starbases are going to work, But here are some ideas because you asked.
Simplify the system to provide access to Starbases for solo players with certain restrictions;
1) Restructure the Fleet system to rank up based on size...
Unit : 1-5 Players
Wing : 6-10 Players
Task Force : 11-20 Players
Fleet : 20+ players
2) The more players the more bank space & other features.
3) The more advanced a fleet the larger the Starbase
Size, Function, TBD
4) Remove the limit for a team of 5 to create a fleet
There is no point to this anymore
5) Introduce the mechanic for 'Alliances' between small fleets.
eg. An alliance of 2x Units creates a Fleet-Wing; each separate Unit gaining the benefits of a Wing.
On topic: I find it a somewhat sad thing that, to date, there is very little content that is intended to be done by a persistent community because, ultimately, it is the friends I make that keep me invested into a MMO. It's why I'm not likely to return to EQ1 (the community I was a part of there scattered to the four winds) and why I'm likely to return to EVE-Online at some point.
An alternative, of course, is for the producers to decide to completely change STO to be a "churn and burn" game; not worry too much about retaining more established players as they don't generate the ARPM (Average Revenue Per Month) as newer players do.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
Could do something like the Hideout feature from Champions Online for anti-fleeters. Setup "apartment" starbases for non-fleeters where they can design their apartment as they see fit. The apartment starbase could have some features that fleet starbases have, but the more useful items like the fleet shipyard is restricted to fleet starbases.
Could do something like the Hideout feature from Champions Online for anti-fleeters. Setup "apartment" starbases for non-fleeters where they can design their apartment as they see fit. The apartment starbase could have some features that fleet starbases have, but the more useful items like the fleet shipyard is restricted to fleet starbases.
Certainly, that's an option for the future. . . but that's not what this is. These are intended for fleets.
Yup, Starship Interiors are our Hideout equivalent. Some more function/growth would be nice.
This, this, a thousand times this. I could handle not getting the ship I want because it's gated by months of fleet play far better if I could actually customise my own ship to my own tastes. Hell, if nothing else, I'd settle for bridges and corridors that don't have ludicrously cavernous dimensions.
This, this, a thousand times this. I could handle not getting the ship I want because it's gated by months of fleet play far better if I could actually customise my own ship to my own tastes. Hell, if nothing else, I'd settle for bridges and corridors that don't have ludicrously cavernous dimensions.
I think, maybe it was Dan, was saying that Foundry tech they expect to get from NWN around the end of this year or so might open up the possibilities to allow us to customize our interiors a lot more then just placing some trophies in 2 rooms.
I think, maybe it was Dan, was saying that Foundry tech they expect to get from NWN around the end of this year or so might open up the possibilities to allow us to customize our interiors a lot more then just placing some trophies in 2 rooms.
DStahl, the man who's job it is to say things which sound cool but which have no solid foundation in reality, said that we "might" have "the possibility" of customised ship interiors to some unspecified degree "around the end of this year". I say the following with the least possible snark and sarcasm:
Ohhhh my, I am SOOOO sold on this, and there is absolutely NO chance whatsoever that Cryptic will fail to deliver on this brilliantly clear and unequivocal content proposal :rolleyes:
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
I feel for you Tumerboy, I really do. This is perhaps the most exasperating thread currently on the forums.
STO Community: "Fleets are irrelevent! There is no incentive to be in a fleet other than bank space! This game isn't 'social' at all!
Heretic et al: "I have designed a system that not only supports fleets but engages them in an exciting way and is accessible to all fleet sizes including fleets of even just one. People needn't worry about being exploited, the more you contribute to your fleet, the more fleet credits you earn and the fleet credits can be spent at ANY fleet."
STO Community: B-B-But...you are FORCING us into fleets! I don't wanna! I want a fleet all to myself! I don't want to play with other people. Give me all the fleet goodies but don't make me actually play with other people!
I agree with you, Tumer, in that here you go and make a feature that people wanted, then you get blasted because people don't want to be in a fleet. You even offer a star base option for single (one-person) fleets and still you get blasted.
The only thing I can think of is personal housing for single folks, and if you're in a fleet, you're housing will be on your base. If you're solo, you'd get to choose what planet you live on. Or, Jupiter station, ds9, etc. but this option would not be available to fleeters. Their starbase is their home.
Then fleeters would complain about not being able to live where single folks live.
Have you guys ever talked about in-game housing? I know we all have captain quarters on our ship but, there's nothing to do there.
I feel for you Tumerboy, I really do. This is perhaps the most exasperating thread currently on the forums.
STO Community: "Fleets are irrelevent! There is no incentive to be in a fleet other than bank space! This game isn't 'social' at all!
Heretic et al: "I have designed a system that not only supports fleets but engages them in an exciting way and is accessible to all fleet sizes including fleets of even just one. People needn't worry about being exploited, the more you contribute to your fleet, the more fleet credits you earn and the fleet credits can be spent at ANY fleet."
STO Community: B-B-But...you are FORCING us into fleets! I don't wanna! I want a fleet all to myself! I don't want to play with other people. Give me all the fleet goodies but don't make me actually play with other people!
Devs: *epic facepalm*
Yup. Feel the same as you.
Do we not remember the crying on these boards regarding STF loot? The "oh-noes. you mean I have to GROUP to get the cool shinies? Nooooo. You can't FORCE us to group. I want to play solo"
Now we have the same thing happening again except with fleets. Personally, I find all the complaining old and tiresome. There is nothing wrong with having something for everyone. The vast majority of the content is playable for solo players. There SHOULD be some stuff just for fleets. Just like there SHOULD be some stuff for team play (STFs). An MMO is like a buffet. There's something for everyone, and you get to pick what you like. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't be available to those that do like it.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
So why have this arbitrary restriction to creating a fleet at all?
So why have this arbitrary restriction to creating a fleet at all?
Because its ridiculous to think that starfleet would build a base for a single person. At least you have a named fleet that is supposedly contributing something to the war effort. Keeping the notion of having a fleet is more appropriate, even if under the surface it's only one person.
It is unfair to attack them from both angles. I think there's a vocal contingent in the game that recognizes it's a single-player experience and likes it that way. Most of us who play MMOs will strongly disagree (even if STO does have a pretty abysmal community) but what can you do.
I'm curious as to what some of you would have us do?
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
Preach it, brother Taco! .... You are saying it quite well.
I'm rather pleased with what I've heard regarding fleets as the concept seems to be trying to balance itself among these almost impossible statistics.
My applause to those who have been working on this as I know many who feel like small fleets and independent players were not as left behind in this as they might have been.
You do not have anything to worry about. Those individuals who which to remain single players will be able to do so. That is never going to change in STO. Fleet starbases will simply be another level of content that one can choose to partake in or not. As for the experience you had in a previous fleet. Sorry you had a bad experience. Like all things, there are good and bad apples. Feel free to look me up in game, should you ever decide to give a fleet a try again.
Thank you for your kind and reassuring comments.
I have no objection to Fleets or Fleet related content and I'm glad Cryptic is doing something for the Fleet community (the IDIC philosophy). I just don't want to see STO turn into an EVE Online where single players are eaten alive and you have to join a guild just to survive. Please understand that I'm still a bit gun shy about Fleets after my experience and I want to see how Season Six develops. But if I do decide to again give a Fleet a try I'll certainly keep you in mind.
Don't take this the wrong way, I am very happy the way fleets and the proposed Starbases are going to work, But here are some ideas because you asked.
Simplify the system to provide access to Starbases for solo players with certain restrictions;
1) Restructure the Fleet system to rank up based on size...
Unit : 1-5 Players
Wing : 6-10 Players
Task Force : 11-20 Players
Fleet : 20+ players
2) The more players the more bank space & other features.
3) The more advanced a fleet the larger the Starbase
Size, Function, TBD
4) Remove the limit for a team of 5 to create a fleet
There is no point to this anymore
5) Introduce the mechanic for 'Alliances' between small fleets.
eg. An alliance of 2x Units creates a Fleet-Wing; each separate Unit gaining the benefits of a Wing.
And lock out small fleets from the goods ... or ... create an environment where they are forces away from a path of development that would be unique to them while creating a playing field for drama and politics between fleets who are allied and might begin fighting over what path that sharied starbase will go in.
No thank you. .... Cryptic is already on a descent path from what we have seen ... so far.
Comments
In fact, the entire Starbase schema feels like it's just setting up people for a lot of drama and heartache. My experience with Internet stuff over the past 15 years is that most of the time you're going to get screwed over when involving other people, so I'd like to be able to go solo. Having large amounts of the content locked away like this does not, IMO, count as 'solo' (and I don't consider PUGs 'solo' either).
For instance, the Sovereign-R is a ship I want rather badly, but if it goes to Starbase-only or something equally bad, I'm probably not going to get it. The thought of it actually being Starbase-only makes me shudder, as it seems like it will be months of grinding combined with being stabbed in the back (or front) and possibly requiring that you yourself do some stabbing, just to get a /chance/ at the ship, and having to do it time after time on every toon I want it on. I've in fact held off on picking up more alt slots because I shudder at the idea of repeating it for every toon. That alone makes me want to stay away from Starbases, and has me considering cancelling my subscription if it ends up that way.
Incidentally, devs, since I know at least one has responded to this thread... PLEASE have the Sovereign-R as an C-Store account-wide unlock, and consider this for other ships along these lines. I really want to get it, but having to deal with the very thing I came to STO to get AWAY from makes it seem like getting what you want from STO is going to have most of the fun drained out of it and end up being a quagmire of squabbling and fruitless toil. I also shudder at the potential outcomes for fans of other ships that end up Starbase-only.
I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt because it seems like Starbases will have a lot of great stuff to them, but... seems like they might be outweighed by the bad stuff, or the effective (even if not literal) manditoriness, that will result. I'm hoping for the best, but also hoping the devs listen in case it doesn't turn out that way.
Squabbling and fruitless toil keep people logging in as they depend on RNG and Lockbox Megamillions to aquire the latest equipment and ships. Cause you gotta keep up with the Jonses. C-Store ships provide great burst once and done revenue but not the sustained revenue over time of lockbox key gambling.
sadly though i can imagine the actual outcome being something along the lines of people being in a fleet for a group star base then using one of their own alts to create their "own" starbase since there isnt any houseing and whatnot that can be customized.... and so they can get the ships/gear/equipment that can only be used by a handful of people from each starbase etc etc.
Fleets exist in the game. Some of those fleets are tiny (1-5 people) some of them are huge 300 + people.
Solo players exist in game.
People who don't want to be in a fleet are in game.
As many have pointed out, we haven't done much to support fleets lately. What we have put out has largely been easily accessible to solo players.
Do you feel that we simply shouldn't support fleets?
Is there anything we could uniquely give to fleets without alienating you anti-fleeters?
IMO we've made starbases nearly as solo-accessible as they could possibly be without making them entirely trivial for larger fleets. I think Heretic has done a fine job of figuring out that whole system.
You can be in a fleet of one, and have your own starbase. There is a VERY low barrier to entry in the acquiring of 4 friends/total strangers to help you form your fleet. Then you can continue on your singular little way.
I guess I just get a feeling of damned if you do, damned if you don't here. Though admittedly that's the feeling I get 90% of the time.
with certain projects will they need lock boxes? if so i have around 950 give or take you guys are going to regret not picking them up
Personally, I think that the big worry among some people (myself included) is that they might get screwed over in the way of the ships you can get from fleet requisitions due to fleet politics. Or inactive fleet officers (who I presume are the ones who have to hand out the new ships). Or someone sniping the ship before they can get it like its an ebay auction with a Buy Now price.
Honestly I think the biggest problem is people dealing with other people, and not sure there's anything devs can do about that. I'm a loner, not in a fleet, probably never will be, but not feeling particularly alienated. They'll get their cool clubhouse to do their social stuff, I'll pick a random star and set a course and leave em all behind. Only real alienation will be if the perks of fleet stuff, in my mind the ships mostly, start affecting all the non-social stuff and change the dynamic that fleets become required. Would I love all the stuff for free? Certainly, but I understand this is a business. Likewise I understand that if you lower the bar too much, make the stuff too accessible, then the big fleets will finish every possible project overnight and start complaining about lack of content again. Maybe take all this less as dev criticism (though some people will always whine, heck with em), and more just players debating other players as to the merits and drawbacks in anticipation of the new release.
From the info out so far it seems like Heretic has done a great job balancing everything on a conceptual level. I'll leave the specifics for when I get a better handle on it in Tribble over the next few weeks.
I have a hard time trying to think of a more optimal solution that handles fleets as diverse as 1 player to those 500 strong.
Cake or Death?
Cake pls.
Don't take this the wrong way, I am very happy the way fleets and the proposed Starbases are going to work, But here are some ideas because you asked.
Simplify the system to provide access to Starbases for solo players with certain restrictions;
1) Restructure the Fleet system to rank up based on size...
2) The more players the more bank space & other features.
3) The more advanced a fleet the larger the Starbase
Size, Function, TBD
4) Remove the limit for a team of 5 to create a fleet
There is no point to this anymore
5) Introduce the mechanic for 'Alliances' between small fleets.
eg. An alliance of 2x Units creates a Fleet-Wing; each separate Unit gaining the benefits of a Wing.
Very well! Give him cake.
Cake. It's a made up drug.
On topic: I find it a somewhat sad thing that, to date, there is very little content that is intended to be done by a persistent community because, ultimately, it is the friends I make that keep me invested into a MMO. It's why I'm not likely to return to EQ1 (the community I was a part of there scattered to the four winds) and why I'm likely to return to EVE-Online at some point.
An alternative, of course, is for the producers to decide to completely change STO to be a "churn and burn" game; not worry too much about retaining more established players as they don't generate the ARPM (Average Revenue Per Month) as newer players do.
Could do something like the Hideout feature from Champions Online for anti-fleeters. Setup "apartment" starbases for non-fleeters where they can design their apartment as they see fit. The apartment starbase could have some features that fleet starbases have, but the more useful items like the fleet shipyard is restricted to fleet starbases.
I've encountered a few of these and exterminated its previous owners.
Can't I just keep it for myself?
Certainly, that's an option for the future. . . but that's not what this is. These are intended for fleets.
Yup, Starship Interiors are our Hideout equivalent. Some more function/growth would be nice.
This, this, a thousand times this. I could handle not getting the ship I want because it's gated by months of fleet play far better if I could actually customise my own ship to my own tastes. Hell, if nothing else, I'd settle for bridges and corridors that don't have ludicrously cavernous dimensions.
I think, maybe it was Dan, was saying that Foundry tech they expect to get from NWN around the end of this year or so might open up the possibilities to allow us to customize our interiors a lot more then just placing some trophies in 2 rooms.
DStahl, the man who's job it is to say things which sound cool but which have no solid foundation in reality, said that we "might" have "the possibility" of customised ship interiors to some unspecified degree "around the end of this year". I say the following with the least possible snark and sarcasm:
Ohhhh my, I am SOOOO sold on this, and there is absolutely NO chance whatsoever that Cryptic will fail to deliver on this brilliantly clear and unequivocal content proposal :rolleyes:
I feel for you Tumerboy, I really do. This is perhaps the most exasperating thread currently on the forums.
STO Community: "Fleets are irrelevent! There is no incentive to be in a fleet other than bank space! This game isn't 'social' at all!
Heretic et al: "I have designed a system that not only supports fleets but engages them in an exciting way and is accessible to all fleet sizes including fleets of even just one. People needn't worry about being exploited, the more you contribute to your fleet, the more fleet credits you earn and the fleet credits can be spent at ANY fleet."
STO Community: B-B-But...you are FORCING us into fleets! I don't wanna! I want a fleet all to myself! I don't want to play with other people. Give me all the fleet goodies but don't make me actually play with other people!
Devs: *epic facepalm*
The only thing I can think of is personal housing for single folks, and if you're in a fleet, you're housing will be on your base. If you're solo, you'd get to choose what planet you live on. Or, Jupiter station, ds9, etc. but this option would not be available to fleeters. Their starbase is their home.
Then fleeters would complain about not being able to live where single folks live.
Have you guys ever talked about in-game housing? I know we all have captain quarters on our ship but, there's nothing to do there.
Yup. Feel the same as you.
Do we not remember the crying on these boards regarding STF loot? The "oh-noes. you mean I have to GROUP to get the cool shinies? Nooooo. You can't FORCE us to group. I want to play solo"
Now we have the same thing happening again except with fleets. Personally, I find all the complaining old and tiresome. There is nothing wrong with having something for everyone. The vast majority of the content is playable for solo players. There SHOULD be some stuff just for fleets. Just like there SHOULD be some stuff for team play (STFs). An MMO is like a buffet. There's something for everyone, and you get to pick what you like. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't be available to those that do like it.
So why have this arbitrary restriction to creating a fleet at all?
Because its ridiculous to think that starfleet would build a base for a single person. At least you have a named fleet that is supposedly contributing something to the war effort. Keeping the notion of having a fleet is more appropriate, even if under the surface it's only one person.
Preach it, brother Taco! .... You are saying it quite well.
I'm rather pleased with what I've heard regarding fleets as the concept seems to be trying to balance itself among these almost impossible statistics.
My applause to those who have been working on this as I know many who feel like small fleets and independent players were not as left behind in this as they might have been.
Thank you for your kind and reassuring comments.
I have no objection to Fleets or Fleet related content and I'm glad Cryptic is doing something for the Fleet community (the IDIC philosophy). I just don't want to see STO turn into an EVE Online where single players are eaten alive and you have to join a guild just to survive. Please understand that I'm still a bit gun shy about Fleets after my experience and I want to see how Season Six develops. But if I do decide to again give a Fleet a try I'll certainly keep you in mind.
And lock out small fleets from the goods ... or ... create an environment where they are forces away from a path of development that would be unique to them while creating a playing field for drama and politics between fleets who are allied and might begin fighting over what path that sharied starbase will go in.
No thank you. .... Cryptic is already on a descent path from what we have seen ... so far.