What if anything do you actually like about the current PvP system ?
Im not asking what you dont like, just if there is anything that you do like about it.
I really love being able to gather a Federation Taskforce to combat the Klingons. (FvK PVP)
Overall however, my favorite PVP experience under the current system is perhaps the warzones (Kerrat).
Nothing give me more joy in PVP, than simply sitting back about 10km trailing an allied Federation Vessel awaiting for some poor Klingon to attempt an attack run. I then de-cloak my Dreadnaught Cruiser, first providing heals for my ally and then a Phaser lance to the Enemy ship with a welcoming volley of Torpedos.
I like the sheer amount of build variance and power combinations that work. Many of them depend on piloting skills, builds, and team composition. This helps mitigate the boredom that often can set in during an MMO. Respecs should be cheaper fyi especially since pvp is so dependent on them.
I like that knowing how to fly a ship well and outmaneuver an opponent is often a hugely overlooked piece in winning a team match.
But mostly I like how in team play (5v5) team builds always beat a kirk (solo) build. The gestalt of team play is extremely potent and rewards players that go in with a team mindset. MMOs should reward team play. Hell I'd love to see set bonuses based on what sets people in your group have.
Unfortunately many players don't want to play as a team. This is what leads them to getting roflstomped in pug matches even when you only have 2 or 3 people on the opposite side who have coordinating build/powers/pvp methodologies.
Yes Ker'rat. DStahl said one day that it was going to be nuked... I was sad and I'd much rather see it fixed. Most importantly faction specific spawn points and making sure that NPC's do not get stuck in the sides of other objects thus making them untargetable while they can target you. Variation of PVE goals would be great as well. I would go there more often if I didn't have borg Sphere's stuck in things.
MORE MORE MORE...
I agree, I love Ker'rat. I hang out there all the time. I love just cloaking and hanging out, doing 1vs1, killing borg, or helping my fed brothers kill klinks. Please keep Ker'rat!
That is my favorite part of the current PvP system
Ker'rat. I love the place - it's that simple. I love being able to come and go as often as I please, and while it's lawless, buggy, and at times a place of great vitriol, it's still far more accessible than the queues.
It's just a shame there aren't other open PVP systems in the game.
Hell - I'll even make that a request: "More open PVP"
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
What if anything do you actually like about the current PvP system ?
1. Kerrat was where I started enjoying PVP a lot in STO even with the epeen flexing/ disregard for spelling/grammar and downright insults sometimes. The worst thing apart Kerrat? The zoning! Why can't we have more than what, 15 players?
2. Its a good space combat PvP sim as far as star trek goes. (IMO)
3. I like the customisation pre-battles, through class type/ ship choice/ ship consoles/weapons / Boffs and Doffs, there's a lot of choice.
Ker'rat is, for all it's flaws, still one of the best things STO ever did.
FvK
When people don't ignore Target: $target
Good level of sportsmanship from most regular players
Helpful community
Close matches; with a 15/14 end score you feel like you earned it, winning 15/0 is only marginally more fun than losing 15/0.
Also, Please keep FVF and KVK. If it is only 100% cross faction PVP, then PVP will die.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Aytanhi of TSI, TSI fleet founder and leader OrganizedPVP channel Admin Feel free to ask me about PVP or starship strategies. "No, I am not Borg!" /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match
i was honestly stumped by the question and coudlnt answer for a while, only things i could think of was the Fed vs Klingon, the only thing that reminded me that feddos and klingons were at actually in a state of cold war, also the fact that i can make people in C-Store ships cry when i kill them with a non C-store ship with no C-Store fittings ^_^.
My favorite part of PvP is fighting ships that use their skills and abilities. It's a challenge, but an equal challenge. The AI in the game doesn't use their abilities effectively and it is much more fun to play against something that "thinks".
Thanks for the feedback folks. I don't think there will be a new PvP update thread for this week. For now I'll just post another question for you in this thread.
If you had to pick one of these two options Option (A), or Option (B), what would you choose?
Option (A)
A PvP system that was primarily made for level capped players, basically a end game activity.
Option (B)
A PvP system that could be used as an alternative path for leveling new characters.
Please don't read into this question. I'm not saying that a PvP system can't do both things, I'm just trying to get a feel for what you would prefer IF you had to choose between the two.
A PvP system that was primarily made for level capped players, basically a end game activity.
This, though maybe something like the Red Alerts. Though then I suppose that the team with the lower level players would be a little gimped. Basically, as someone said a little while ago, everyone has a Vice Admiral now and if they don't a little DOFFing will fix that.
(A) is the clear choice. The trip to max level is quite short, especially using the DOff system. The game is in dire need of things to do at end game, not while leveling.
Any content designed for prior to end game will be briefly consumed then forgotten about for the following months/years.
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I would prefer to be able to choose the level at which I PvP - e.g., once I'm at max level, I can PvP at Commander level if I choose. City of... has PvP zones that scale players to their level, which is pretty cool, as well as arenas where you can choose what level to play at.
However, I would lean towards A of those two options, because max level is where you're able to play with all your abilities, and while leveling through PvP only may be nice for some, I like doing missions as my primary method of leveling, with PvP on the side.
I think option A) is my preference. Though I think PvP at lower tiers is interesting and has some advantages, thanks to less abilities in play and requiring more sacrifices.
Some "hidden" assumptions" I may have here:
1) If it's designed as an endgame activity, it means the PvP endgame system will be designed to be more varied and have more long-term motivations in it.
2) At the same time, I hope it still retains its low gear barrier to entry - I don't want to feel forced to grind through endgame PvP just to gain some uber gear sets before I can start to compete with he long-term players. (The STF Sets are the maximum of gear advantage I would be willing to accept.*)
*) Even though I already find them problematic. They seem a little too required, and the biggest issue is that they make other very rare gear entirely obsolete. I think the sets ruin itemization a lot by being simply better - even piece for piece - than standard items.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Option B will just cause STO PVP to die even further, but it is a good afterthought after end-game pvp is improved.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Aytanhi of TSI, TSI fleet founder and leader OrganizedPVP channel Admin Feel free to ask me about PVP or starship strategies. "No, I am not Borg!" /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match
If you had to pick one of these two options Option (A), or Option (B), what would you choose?
Definitely (A) if restricted to just one. Especially since I have leveled most of my characters with shoddy, random equipment.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
i remember tier 2 and 3 pvp to be really fun, haven't leveled up a character in quite a wile though, don't know how long the wait is to que up, or if its realistic to try to focus on it at all. you level and move on from it quickly. sometimes i wish i could have a permanent tier 2 or 3 character just so i can pvp with it.
end game pvp is the be all end all, the most important. i think a store for pvp gear would be a good idea, and the items in it be purchased with pvp trophies, basically a chunk of an enemy ship. would be the same thing as borg salvage basically.
in it there thought be x3 gear, be it acc3, dam3 or cap3. also deflectors with 3 of the same mods, deflectors that focus on subspace decompilers should get a x3 mod buffing that, deflectors with hull repair should get x3 mod for hull repair. impulse engines with turn3. stuff that would actually be a legitimate alternative to the must have set equipment that you could only get from pvp tokens.
I'd like to say (B), but I reluctantly admit the game is probably better served by focusing on max level.
HOWEVER... IF there were a good way to train novice PvP'ers on how to do it effectively, then I'd rather see (B).
How would that work?
Well, a live Tutorial in PvP probably wouldn't work all that well, right?
But what if there were a series of optional Solo and queued Team PvE missions that emulated PvP and taught some basics about ship handling, equipping, and skills? Maybe temporarily putting players into preset ship configurations for some of them?
Scenarios:
Escort Handling (w DPS focus)
Cruiser Handling (w Heal/Tank focus)
Science Vessel Handling (w Buff/CC focus)
Escort/Cruiser/Science Teamwork 3v3
Each scenario would basically be a chain of objectives with a bit of dialog to explain what's about to happen and what to do.
If that's too much to swallow, and I suspect that it is way out of scope, then you might as well throw everybody into the deep end of the pool.
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Option (A) I don't do much PvP yet, but I almost always wait till I have a max level character, that way it's more fair as everyone has the roughly the same abilitiy level.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." Jean-Luc Picard
I would say Option A....but I have to ask what would happen to the PVP system designed for end-game, when the level cap increases...will the PVP requirement increase as well?
I agree with (A), but one issue is that not all L50's are alike. Outside of differing captain ability, there's ship, consoles, and +1 consoles to consider. Think about how the new player-driven PvP league is working - assign points to certain ships, consoles, weapons etc, and create PvP tiers based on that. As an example, say
Mk X items are worth 0 points (weapons and consoles)
Mk XI are worth 5 points
MK XII are worth 10 points
Each grade is worth an additional 5 points (since a Mk X green is essentially a Mk XI common)
Each additional set piece is worth 5 additional points
Escort carriers are 120 points (these numbers are complete fabrications, salt to taste)
Escorts are worth 100 points
Full Carriers are 80 points
Flight Deck Cruisers are 60
Cruisers are 60 points
Science ships are 50 points
(another option would be to assign points based on ship tier)
+1 universal consoles (single ship) are worth 20
+1 universal consoles (any ship) are worth 40
Unique consoles (assimilated console, etc) are worth 40
So a Defiant vs a Karfi, both with full Mk XII purple weapon loadouts
100 + 7*(10+15) = 275 (Defiant)
80+ 7*(10+25) = 255 (Kar'Fi)
Defiant has Cloaking Device, +20, Assimilated Console +40 = 335
Karfi has a Phase Shift Generator, +20, and Aceton Assimilator, +40 = 315
Assuming all the extra consoles are Mk XII Blue
335 + 7*(10+10) = 475
315 + 7*(10+10) = 455
And arrange tiers as
0-250
255-450
455 +
So an ill-equipped ship would only fight another ship of similar configuration, and as you get better gear, you would progress to fighting harder opponents. I suppose you could Exchange yourself into T3, or bank your XII purple gear and run with X common, but at least the difference between ships would be purely based on build and skill.
Then there would be separate tier queues for pugs, and private matches could run tier queues or total point queues, with each side allocated a certain number of points.
All that being said, really the problem with PvP is that PvE does so little to prepare you. What needs to happen is a series of PvE based PvP training missions that discusses
- tanking via armor and BOFF abilities
- co-ordinating an alpha strike via team chat (Boldly they Rode would have have been awesome for this, with Shon calling out targets in team chat - see (1) below)
- boosting damage via specialization in weapons (ie, no skittles boats)
- buffing/debuffing/rotating buffs (EPtS, Tac Team, Ep2SIF, etc)
- tips on better BOFF abilities
- tips on better DOFF abilities
I've thought about trying to write Foundry missions to teach these topics, but the necessary parts are difficult to wrangle. A Feature Episode series could be made out of these, with spiffy non-OP PvP related loot for each mission (say Mk XII blue neutronium for example for finishing the tanking mission).
(1)
"The Enterprise is hailing us!"
"Captain TRIBBLE, we can't break through their shields firing at random targets! We need to focus our fire!"
Help window - Open your chat window to the Team tab and follow the commands from the Enterprise!
[team] Open fire on the Jem Hadar Battleship! Select my ship, then press (assist keybind) to target it!
Comments
I really love being able to gather a Federation Taskforce to combat the Klingons. (FvK PVP)
Overall however, my favorite PVP experience under the current system is perhaps the warzones (Kerrat).
Nothing give me more joy in PVP, than simply sitting back about 10km trailing an allied Federation Vessel awaiting for some poor Klingon to attempt an attack run. I then de-cloak my Dreadnaught Cruiser, first providing heals for my ally and then a Phaser lance to the Enemy ship with a welcoming volley of Torpedos.
I like the sheer amount of build variance and power combinations that work. Many of them depend on piloting skills, builds, and team composition. This helps mitigate the boredom that often can set in during an MMO. Respecs should be cheaper fyi especially since pvp is so dependent on them.
I like that knowing how to fly a ship well and outmaneuver an opponent is often a hugely overlooked piece in winning a team match.
But mostly I like how in team play (5v5) team builds always beat a kirk (solo) build. The gestalt of team play is extremely potent and rewards players that go in with a team mindset. MMOs should reward team play. Hell I'd love to see set bonuses based on what sets people in your group have.
Unfortunately many players don't want to play as a team. This is what leads them to getting roflstomped in pug matches even when you only have 2 or 3 people on the opposite side who have coordinating build/powers/pvp methodologies.
I agree, I love Ker'rat. I hang out there all the time. I love just cloaking and hanging out, doing 1vs1, killing borg, or helping my fed brothers kill klinks. Please keep Ker'rat!
That is my favorite part of the current PvP system
besides the fact that it's the only place where i can shoot at other players?
uuuuh....
hmmm...
no...
maybe....
no...
mmmmh...
no, i really think: nothing
Ker'rat. I love the place - it's that simple. I love being able to come and go as often as I please, and while it's lawless, buggy, and at times a place of great vitriol, it's still far more accessible than the queues.
It's just a shame there aren't other open PVP systems in the game.
Hell - I'll even make that a request: "More open PVP"
1. Kerrat was where I started enjoying PVP a lot in STO even with the epeen flexing/ disregard for spelling/grammar and downright insults sometimes. The worst thing apart Kerrat? The zoning! Why can't we have more than what, 15 players?
2. Its a good space combat PvP sim as far as star trek goes. (IMO)
3. I like the customisation pre-battles, through class type/ ship choice/ ship consoles/weapons / Boffs and Doffs, there's a lot of choice.
Also;
PVP is the reason I play STO.
FvK
When people don't ignore Target: $target
Good level of sportsmanship from most regular players
Helpful community
Close matches; with a 15/14 end score you feel like you earned it, winning 15/0 is only marginally more fun than losing 15/0.
Aytanhi of TSI, TSI fleet founder and leader OrganizedPVP channel Admin
Feel free to ask me about PVP or starship strategies. "No, I am not Borg!"
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match
apart from that, i cant think of anything.
If you had to pick one of these two options Option (A), or Option (B), what would you choose?
Option (A)
A PvP system that was primarily made for level capped players, basically a end game activity.
Option (B)
A PvP system that could be used as an alternative path for leveling new characters.
Please don't read into this question. I'm not saying that a PvP system can't do both things, I'm just trying to get a feel for what you would prefer IF you had to choose between the two.
Leveling through PVP would be a nice bonus if I didn't read further into your question.
This, though maybe something like the Red Alerts. Though then I suppose that the team with the lower level players would be a little gimped. Basically, as someone said a little while ago, everyone has a Vice Admiral now and if they don't a little DOFFing will fix that.
Any content designed for prior to end game will be briefly consumed then forgotten about for the following months/years.
Lock Boxes: The true value - (thread link)
Jem'Hadar Bug Odds - (thread link)
Galor Creation Rate - (thread link)
Find me in TSW - TSW Chronicle Profile
However, I would lean towards A of those two options, because max level is where you're able to play with all your abilities, and while leveling through PvP only may be nice for some, I like doing missions as my primary method of leveling, with PvP on the side.
Some "hidden" assumptions" I may have here:
1) If it's designed as an endgame activity, it means the PvP endgame system will be designed to be more varied and have more long-term motivations in it.
2) At the same time, I hope it still retains its low gear barrier to entry - I don't want to feel forced to grind through endgame PvP just to gain some uber gear sets before I can start to compete with he long-term players. (The STF Sets are the maximum of gear advantage I would be willing to accept.*)
*) Even though I already find them problematic. They seem a little too required, and the biggest issue is that they make other very rare gear entirely obsolete. I think the sets ruin itemization a lot by being simply better - even piece for piece - than standard items.
Option B will just cause STO PVP to die even further, but it is a good afterthought after end-game pvp is improved.
Aytanhi of TSI, TSI fleet founder and leader OrganizedPVP channel Admin
Feel free to ask me about PVP or starship strategies. "No, I am not Borg!"
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match
Definitely (A) if restricted to just one. Especially since I have leveled most of my characters with shoddy, random equipment.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
end game pvp is the be all end all, the most important. i think a store for pvp gear would be a good idea, and the items in it be purchased with pvp trophies, basically a chunk of an enemy ship. would be the same thing as borg salvage basically.
in it there thought be x3 gear, be it acc3, dam3 or cap3. also deflectors with 3 of the same mods, deflectors that focus on subspace decompilers should get a x3 mod buffing that, deflectors with hull repair should get x3 mod for hull repair. impulse engines with turn3. stuff that would actually be a legitimate alternative to the must have set equipment that you could only get from pvp tokens.
HOWEVER... IF there were a good way to train novice PvP'ers on how to do it effectively, then I'd rather see (B).
How would that work?
Well, a live Tutorial in PvP probably wouldn't work all that well, right?
But what if there were a series of optional Solo and queued Team PvE missions that emulated PvP and taught some basics about ship handling, equipping, and skills? Maybe temporarily putting players into preset ship configurations for some of them?
Scenarios:
Escort Handling (w DPS focus)
Cruiser Handling (w Heal/Tank focus)
Science Vessel Handling (w Buff/CC focus)
Escort/Cruiser/Science Teamwork 3v3
Each scenario would basically be a chain of objectives with a bit of dialog to explain what's about to happen and what to do.
If that's too much to swallow, and I suspect that it is way out of scope, then you might as well throw everybody into the deep end of the pool.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
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Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
Mk X items are worth 0 points (weapons and consoles)
Mk XI are worth 5 points
MK XII are worth 10 points
Each grade is worth an additional 5 points (since a Mk X green is essentially a Mk XI common)
Each additional set piece is worth 5 additional points
Escort carriers are 120 points (these numbers are complete fabrications, salt to taste)
Escorts are worth 100 points
Full Carriers are 80 points
Flight Deck Cruisers are 60
Cruisers are 60 points
Science ships are 50 points
(another option would be to assign points based on ship tier)
+1 universal consoles (single ship) are worth 20
+1 universal consoles (any ship) are worth 40
Unique consoles (assimilated console, etc) are worth 40
So a Defiant vs a Karfi, both with full Mk XII purple weapon loadouts
100 + 7*(10+15) = 275 (Defiant)
80+ 7*(10+25) = 255 (Kar'Fi)
Defiant has Cloaking Device, +20, Assimilated Console +40 = 335
Karfi has a Phase Shift Generator, +20, and Aceton Assimilator, +40 = 315
Assuming all the extra consoles are Mk XII Blue
335 + 7*(10+10) = 475
315 + 7*(10+10) = 455
And arrange tiers as
0-250
255-450
455 +
So an ill-equipped ship would only fight another ship of similar configuration, and as you get better gear, you would progress to fighting harder opponents. I suppose you could Exchange yourself into T3, or bank your XII purple gear and run with X common, but at least the difference between ships would be purely based on build and skill.
Then there would be separate tier queues for pugs, and private matches could run tier queues or total point queues, with each side allocated a certain number of points.
All that being said, really the problem with PvP is that PvE does so little to prepare you. What needs to happen is a series of PvE based PvP training missions that discusses
- tanking via armor and BOFF abilities
- co-ordinating an alpha strike via team chat (Boldly they Rode would have have been awesome for this, with Shon calling out targets in team chat - see (1) below)
- boosting damage via specialization in weapons (ie, no skittles boats)
- buffing/debuffing/rotating buffs (EPtS, Tac Team, Ep2SIF, etc)
- tips on better BOFF abilities
- tips on better DOFF abilities
I've thought about trying to write Foundry missions to teach these topics, but the necessary parts are difficult to wrangle. A Feature Episode series could be made out of these, with spiffy non-OP PvP related loot for each mission (say Mk XII blue neutronium for example for finishing the tanking mission).
(1)
"The Enterprise is hailing us!"
"Captain TRIBBLE, we can't break through their shields firing at random targets! We need to focus our fire!"
Help window - Open your chat window to the Team tab and follow the commands from the Enterprise!
[team] Open fire on the Jem Hadar Battleship! Select my ship, then press (assist keybind) to target it!