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"Star Trek Online dev not concerned with losing global playability..."
Archived Post
Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
So, recently I read a Very interesting post by someone from cryptic, that, well gave me the chills.
please note, this was on the Jupiter forums the link is HERE
Is this an official Cryptic view? Or is it a personal opinion. Given that on that forum he is listed as a Cryptic Dev, I'm not sure. What I do know is that if you are that willing to throw out an entire CONTINENT of players to keep your lock boxes, I will never ever look at you the same again.
IF this is a personal thought, it may behoove Cryptic to institute a policy that on non Cryptic forums employees not be allowed to use things that ID them as a DEV while speaking personally.
I can't speak for the EU folks but IF i was them I'd want this answered, officially. I personally find the dismissive, wording of the post to be, honestly offensive. The fact that even would potentially enter any of the Cryptic teams mind, to me, speaks greatly of what they consider more important.
So the question is, Is this an official view point or not?
I will leave the rest of the implications of it, out of this as it may not be one, but IF it is, I do want to retain the right, to ask a follow up.
once again that is from the Jupiter forums
here are the links to the article as well
Quote Originally Posted by XXXXXX View Post
Just imagine all that lost revenue from one of the richest areas in the world if this goes the worst case scenario.
Quote Originally Posted by @borticus View Post
Honestly? Probably less revenue than would be lost by not doing any more Lock Boxes.
please note, this was on the Jupiter forums the link is HERE
Is this an official Cryptic view? Or is it a personal opinion. Given that on that forum he is listed as a Cryptic Dev, I'm not sure. What I do know is that if you are that willing to throw out an entire CONTINENT of players to keep your lock boxes, I will never ever look at you the same again.
IF this is a personal thought, it may behoove Cryptic to institute a policy that on non Cryptic forums employees not be allowed to use things that ID them as a DEV while speaking personally.
I can't speak for the EU folks but IF i was them I'd want this answered, officially. I personally find the dismissive, wording of the post to be, honestly offensive. The fact that even would potentially enter any of the Cryptic teams mind, to me, speaks greatly of what they consider more important.
So the question is, Is this an official view point or not?
I will leave the rest of the implications of it, out of this as it may not be one, but IF it is, I do want to retain the right, to ask a follow up.
once again that is from the Jupiter forums
here are the links to the article as well
Post edited by Archived Post on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/15/star-trek-online-dev-not-concerned-with-losing-global-playabilit/
Yikes :eek:
***update***
BorticusCryptic's response here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=4216437#post4216437
Ty Nagus, My link fu, is not good, I hopefully got it fixed, this time
I honestly doubt Borticus is the one making the business decisions. Context here is key.
He's responding to lockboxes being investigated by local authorities. Some are under the impression that this would 'force' Cryptic to change the lockboxes, but he's saying that such an action wouldn't 'force' anything by economics alone. So it's more of a cautionary explanation of the gritty economic details from someone who doesn't decide such things but has a better insight into the variables than we do.
So there it is. It's not an opinion of the worth of a region of players. It's just a warning that if you're hoping that national legal decision will change the game, it might just hurt players from that country.
Star Trek has endured as a series for so long, because there's something in it for everyone. Even those that normally don't enjoy Science Fiction. What I, and many of my fellow Captains fear, is with the addition of big things like the lock boxes and even smaller stuff like the Compounding Respawn Timer, STO is slowly becoming more cutthroat.
Which is a scary proposition.
While Star Trek is "just a series", it is a series that means a lot to a great many people. I'm afraid that you guys are beginning to forget the entire point of Star Trek. This seems to be heading down the road of gaming elitism and we all know what's at the end of that business...
After all, if you forget Rules 57 and 76, we might as well be riding the mayday train.
Me not knowing any of the statistics would be able to say the same that the loss of a country of 6 million is nothing when they can still sell lock boxes to the rest of the MMO world . so he was making a valid point that is not dismissive .
So in the end relax and calm down there people like us with there own views and what he said is nothing more then his personal thoughts on the matter except he has seen the lockbox numbers and such from the other side
which is why I asked what I did, On said forums, he's identified as a Cryptic Dev. When you wear that title in public, things you say, can come back and bite you.
One thing the Military used to all ways tell us was that IF we were in uniform and we were asked anything that wasn't directly about our single person. we were to refer them to the PIO. My Current job in law enforcement goes even further with the fact we're not allowed to comment on anything other than to point then to the PIO.
I will understand it if its a personal opinion, I'll still have major issues with it, but I can understand it. IF and only IF it is a Cryptic standpoint, that is a whole new ball game.
Like I wrote when they first introduced them, these lotteries potentially violate federal anti-gambling laws as well as the laws of many States and nations, and to make it even worse, they are not disclosing the odds of winning the coveted prizes.
The more publicity it gets (not just PW but other gaming companies as well), the more likely some Attorney General or State Senator will take notice. For instance, here in California, lotteries are illegal. Is this a lottery as defined by State law? I wrote to the Attorney General asserting that it was and they wrote back thanking me for the information, but so far I have not heard of them taking any action.
However, the California legislature was concerned enough about illegal lotteries being conducted in the State to make sure that they specifically changed the law to make it clear that baseball card "grab bags" fell under the definition of illegal lotteries. With enough exposure, they might do the same for lotteries for virtual items.
It is pretty virgin legal territory at this point, but I really doubt that future action in legislatures and courts will be favorable to this type of gambling. I suspect that PW 's lawyers and accountants are telling them just to try to get as much money out of this type of thing while they can.
It is a tough economy out there, so I can understand why making a quick buck at the expense of people with serious gambling problems can seem like a good idea. I do not think it is ethical and I have serious doubts as to whether it is legal. When Cryptic gets rid of the lottery system, I will start spending money on the game, like I used to.
Heck, *any* job of sufficient size requires something like that. If a camera (gods forbid) gets shoved into my face I have to point people to the Office of Public Affairs and keep my damn mouth shut. When I was employed by a retail computer chain, I was expressly forbidden from identifying myself as an employee of that company in any social media outlet.
On the one hand, interacting with the developers of this game is something that not a lot of studios permit or do. It's refreshing in some ways. It makes them less of empty names or nameless faceless pitiless coders. On the other hand, we've had some real humdingers come out in forums and on twitter. It's unfortunate; I think Cryptic may not have had as comprehensive a 'social media policy' as some other companies have and goldnames who may not be ready or prepared or trained walk themselves right into a minefield. (ProTip: If you think you're ready... you aren't ready.)
Because for as many times as an account or screen-name might be tagged 'This is my personal opinion only, it does not reflect that of my employer,' that really doesn't matter. Your employer apparently considers you worthy enough to identify yourself as their employee. Weather they know you're posting images of you burning kittens is besides the point: People will see your name, a picture of you setting a kitten alight, and 'EMPLOYEE OF COMPANYNAME.' From there the connection is inevitable.
It's an unfortunate fact that the various social media outlets are causing a coagulation the various 'infodroppings' that we leave all over the net. If people do not like the fact that their name and what they say is associated with their employer, and vice versa, then the ones to complain to are the companies that are not only allowing this, but encouraging this. But I don't think Zuckerberg really gives a tinker's damn about that, do you?
Denmark makes laws for Denmark not anyone else
and Germany isn't in charge either (It just thinks it is)
Same goes for France
Europe is a collection of free democracys
and the EU is not all powerful.
Needless to say, I didn't give a very good review in the survey about the boxes.
Cryptic doesn't like it? Tough. I'm not saying "get rid of it", but what I *am* saying is don't annoy people with this "IN YOUR FACE" shovelling of them like what's happening now.
A man who makes sense
plus lock boxes are all over the www.
Hell i signed up for need for speed online the other day and the first thing they showed me before a CAR was a lock box to open
doesn't matter who made the business decisions in this case. he still made a disturbing comment
it would force changes if they wanted to continue operating within that country. it would also be seen by other countries who could carry out similar bans. know what happens if they get investigated and banned from doing this in the US?
indeed. and he wouldn't be the first dev to say something he shouldn't have in a public place.
that would be difficult to do considering they would be on the same server and the boxes would still physically drop. therefore they would still be involved in it to some degree
you know the EU can pass laws that apply to all the member countries right? its certainly the kind of thing they would do so with. not to mention if one country shuts something down it can have something of a domino effect
so are gambling sites. and they're starting to shut those down quite a bit
As long as people are stupid enough to buy the keys enmass... As long as they can lure people into the trap, and make money off the Grab bags its likely to produce positive numbers.
As I pointed out in another thread: Theres a minimum amount of black numbers on the bottom line, that defines if a product produces a worthwhile revenue...
It has to pay for the time put into the product... And while that is very little, it's not enough. It also has more than that, and encurage futher production of such a product.
My geuss is, that as long as its employeeTimePay + 5% (maybe 10%), its defined as worth while.
As for different laws in different countries, so be it. If they have to drop a number of players due to the laws of their country, that's not cryptics fault. They're just trying to make money, this process works.
I can't enter some competitions due to living outside of america, and that's fine. I pay more tax on subs for games than some other countries do, I can live with that. If the lockboxes were outlawed in my country, and cryptic said ok, well we can't let you play the game, because the boxes are vital to our income, then it's a shame, but that's life.
Of course, they could try to do a workaround, though I'm just sticking my finger in the air here. Maybe set up a separate server, where you pay a bit more to play, but has no boxes. How this would work I don't know though.
So when in battle and I torpedo spread a whole load of mines suddenly there are half a dozen of these thing in the way and I can't SEE to target the enemy
But apparanty lockboxes are a gold mine. Not exactly surprising to hear, but I think it should give any businessman pause - if it's too good to to be true, maybe it is wrong? If not legally _yet_, maybe it should be and eventually will be?
Leave and don't come back then
That was oddly my first thought as well. £300 would be quite handy right now.
Some one mentioned Holland earlier. Isn't that were the main transatlantic Internet link is based? I remember we had trouble with it a year or so back.
That will be intresting to see.
In fact, there are U.S. States where these exact kinds of contests were disallowed in the past. The games that operated there simply ran these contests until governments told them to stop and even then just disallowed sales of keys to accounts in those areas. And if a government, any government, would push harder, they'd simply take the game offline in that region.
Now, if we're talking the whole EU, that might be an issue. But I do suspect the bulk of EU playership is German and British (not sure which is bigger). And even then, US lockbox revenues probably do far exceed total revenues from the EU. And probably worth losing the 10 or so US States that would object the hardest if pushed.
What you have to understand is:
Jeremy (borticus) has no say in this decision. Identifying himself as a dev doesn't make his statements official. Stating this does not mean it is what he'd like to do himself. I really don't think he likes lockboxes, personally. He is simply stating what he knows about the revenue they bring in.
I think it costs them revenue too but that's one of those things Cryptic doesn't seem to know how to track and I'm sure it brings in more revenue than subscriptions used to but, again, I'm not sure that Cryptic ever had a great handle on how to make money with MMOs and any experience PWE has is very impressive to them. I think Cryptic probably misunderstands PWE's advice sometimes and follows what PWE did closer than what PWE requires them to do.
If they are really making Cryptic that much money, and therefore keeping the game afloat, that's fine by me. No-one is forcing me to buy keys for them and the drop frequency is nothing more than an Inconvenience.
As for the comments in the opening post - I haven't read the linked thread (from another board) but the comment from the dev appears to be a response to someone claiming that the Dutch authorities are looking into the legalities of the matter.
So far this thread has, mostly, revolved around the Dev's comment. Okay. But who was it who was shouting about Dutch legislation on such matters? Did this person speak on behalf of the appropriate authorities? Where did he or she obtain information pertaining to the decision making process regarding this matter?
This is the same reason why collection agencies continue to harass people despite government fines, and why companies continue producing goods and services even though they are in bankruptcy. Borticus statement, from a purely factual perspective, is correct.
I'll do what I like, not what you tell me, thank you.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/15/star-trek-online-dev-not-concerned-with-losing-global-playabilit/
Yikes :eek:
***update***
BorticusCryptic's response here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=4216437#post4216437
10
The only way to get them to go away is if the community stopped buying them, resulting in Cryptic needing to release their content another way to make back their development costs. That's the only way to vote here -- with the almighty dollar.