I dont know anymore.... I dont have fun in pvp much of late,,, and this is just one of the problems its so many things lately... mako shields then the bug shield then science resist fest and even before that there was something wrong with sci imo.
Anyhow Ill stay on vent and if anyone of tsi happens to be online you can ask them to ask ous to make a team.[/QUOTE
I kinda have to agree Ive just come back after a layoff and a lot of times its just not that fun in PvP but
I do have to admit every now and then the PvP gods look "up" at us and smile.
Had a pug today that just clicked today with Zor and I have to say it was a wonderful feeling just like old
times and the icing on the cake was we won 14/15 but even if we would have lost it wouldnt have taken
the luster off this match.
A worthy opponent is a beutiful thing thank you Zorena....
Removing dilithium from pvp is probably the dumbest thing I heard today, and I was on another forum before. Rather than that reporting afkers should be made easy and efficient, I don't see any other solution.
Tieing the reward to the outcome is against the spirit of good sportsmanship and ST in general since people should be motivated to play and compete and not to win, at least not in an virtual world of a better tommorrow, we have enough of that in everyday life.
Please don't demotivate people from playing pvp by removing the dilithium rewards.
i've posted this before but i'll quickly rehash my 'simple' idea to curb arena farming
Making the Dilithium reward a Pot - the victory pot (i dunno how much so let just say 5000k max for the winner 4k for losers.
I'm no math wiz but a formula could be derived that could take the average dps of the group and we could fairly extrapolate from that a participant baseline. The pots for both sides could then be divided up evenly among all remaining players as long as they approach a reasonable % of this participation baseline.
So just to make it easy i'll make up some after match numbers
we'll just pretend the dps and deaths approach what u'd expect on a winning and losing side.
So anyway, the way it would work is two fold
first anyone with 0 0 (like farmer dave above) would automatically be disqualified from getting dilithum and exp from being in the arena. that would instead be divided up and split among those who came - no participation [he wasnt really there so obviously the game should treat them as such. [i'm flexible with the foreiting dilithium idea vs having it distributed to the other remaining players who did] What's important is that the farmer get nada.
Next it would take an average of everyone with non zero dps and hmm i'm not sure at what % we could determine the difference between - hey has this guy tried vs this guy is just bad vs this farmer just flew in once or twice and pew pewed to avoid the 0 0 dilithium forfeit.
But i imagine there should be a sweet spot that could be determined. Maybe there is a simpler way to do it but this is the idea i've been liking so far. Maybe we should start up a discussion on possible solutions - between the lot of us i'm sure we can suss out a great idea.
Then we'll just have to wait for cryptic to get on board.
So lets start!
p.s. in the short term the best solution to this is clearly queuing with fleet and friends - hell even 2 friends queuing is more fun than solo. And dont worry about winning, that's decided after. I just focus on working on the teamwork between myself and my wingmen and try to have as much fun as possible - if the odds are stacked against u - for whatever reason, that's the time to hunt for personal glory. U dont owe those puggers anything - their in just like you are - trying to get a little dilithium and have a little fun with as little preparation as possible - they deserve no better than the luck of the draw imo. If their open to teamwork, go for it - if not you and ur bud do what you want - it'll be over before you know it.
If your serious about dilitihium and your any good - find a fleet or join that Opvp channel i've heard so much about and team up with them.
Still though i think making friends and growing together is the best way to have fun in pvp in the long run.
I still like the easiest fix. PvP Zero Dilithium. Que to fight not earn dilithium. If you don't have 30 min to go farm 8k in PvE all well... likley you didn't need anything the dilithium buys anyway.
I am not even kidding its the one solution that Cryptic is likely to implement... it is the only solution there likely to not TRIBBLE up making PvP unplayable for a week or more. You know I'm right. Just remove Dil the farmers go away and when you get a pop you know its likley to be a good match.
Husa.. did u even read the last few pages of posts?
zero pvp dilithium is highly counterproductive. The only people who advocate this position are people who truly dont enjoy pvp in the first place - imo
and if my theory is correct - it makes one wonder why you are here in the pvp gameplay forums at all if all you do is constantly get behind poorly thought up ideas.
Do yourself and the forum a favor, scroll up, read my first post. - If you dont wanna that's fine.
But for those with the memory of a poorly nourished dog - They already zeroed dilithium out in the war zone - It ruined the warzone pvp - and that choice is directly responsible for the current problem with arenas, and the catalyst for this very thread being created.
---
I'll let that sink in for a moment for those who have yet to realize this.
---
i know yourself and many others didn't/don't have the skill, the drive, the inclination or the 5 bucks to participate in war zone pvp but it was the MOST Fun iv'e had in an mmo in the last 8 years, hands down. Not since planetside have i had that much fun. And i'm not exaggerating.
But because of one dumb idea - zero dilithium - it's all over. hundreds of players on my server and many others no longer have access to this fun.. Cryptic also loses out on the potential revenue c-store purchases from compeitive pvpers who loved in the war zone may have contributed.
The idea is fail².
Please don't suggest it unless you have compelling arguments to back it up.
somehow i doubt you'll take my advice, but i'll hope anyway.
Husa.. did u even read the last few pages of posts?
zero pvp dilithium is highly counterproductive. The only people who advocate this position are people who truly dont enjoy pvp in the first place - imo
and if my theory is correct - it makes one wonder why you are here in the pvp gameplay forums at all if all you do is constantly get behind poorly thought up ideas.
Do yourself and the forum a favor, scroll up, read my first post. - If you dont wanna that's fine.
But for those with the memory of a poorly nourished dog - They already zeroed dilithium out in the war zone - It ruined the warzone pvp - and that choice is directly responsible for the current problem with arenas, and the catalyst for this very thread being created.
---
I'll let that sink in for a moment for those who have yet to realize this.
---
i know yourself and many others didn't/don't have the skill, the drive, the inclination or the 5 bucks to participate in war zone pvp but it was the MOST Fun iv'e had in an mmo in the last 8 years, hands down. Not since planetside have i had that much fun. And i'm not exaggerating.
But because of one dumb idea - zero dilithium - it's all over. hundreds of players on my server and many others no longer have access to this fun.. Cryptic also loses out on the potential revenue c-store purchases from compeitive pvpers who loved in the war zone may have contributed.
The idea is fail².
Please don't suggest it unless you have compelling arguments to back it up.
somehow i doubt you'll take my advice, but i'll hope anyway.
Do yourself a favor and grab a clue. I far from hate PvP... I don't need a bone to enjoy it. I could care 2 shakes if I get Dil for PvP... I will still be quing for PvP... will you ?
The warzone is dead in YOUR opinion. The warzone is free of AFK farmers... that is all. Last I was there I still got all the fight I wanted... from people that fought back. Crazy I know right... they didn't park while I beat them up. lol
Fact... Cryptic is not going to role back changes made to the warzone Dilithium Reward....
Fact... AFK Players will exist as long as there is a Dilithium Reward....
FACT... NO REAL PvPer gives a shake about Dilithium Rewards.... IMO
There for Remove the Dilithium Rewards... and People that want to farm Dilithium can go find some PvE Map somewhere to hang out in....
PvP People that only PvP for Rewards can go away as well... and those of us that PvP for the shear enjoyment of PvP can enjoy Quing for PvP again, instead of being forced to private que all night to get proper matches.
As far as the warzone goes.... I love Kerrat and I hate Kerrat.... lets honestly hope Cryptic has a replacement in the pipe so it can be nuked at last.
BTW there is only one server. Also I spent a year and a half in the warzone friend... I know you are newer to the game, trust me I have played it out and am quite sick of fighting people that offer ZERO challange. Which has described the warzone for long before Dilithum was a twinkle in the most greedy of the devs eyes.
it's odd that you say u love the war zone -given that in a recent post i read it was clear you barely pvped in the war zone at all - and mocked my position that it was fun from before.
I'll put aside your pyschic predictions about what cryptic is likely to do as they are neither here nor there.
You strike me as the type who doesnt read threads thoroughly so i'll recap for you.
Before the dilithium change there were easily 15 to 20 non full pvp zones from peak time to morning.
Now your lucky to have access to 1 populated zone with pvpers in it and not just the few who still want to farm the purple item rewards.
I never said there was no war zone pvp anymore. It happens, but when it does happen the 15 person cap can be hit instantly. and that's it. 15 ppl get to have fun the rest of us are *** out unless some action jumps off somewhere. It's hard to know how many capped zones their are unless the ppl in those zones are chatting in zone chat. - but i dont think it's fair to limit the fun to just the ppl who are lucky enough to be in a warzone before it's locked - maybe you do.
That's how it is now. You can pretend like nothing has changed but anyone who actually does the warzone frequently knows It has - For the worst.
before you could switch around find fights. After we would clear a zone of the scrubs we'd hit transfer and keep going around. Now? when people quit. That's it. Your done until more ppl show up - but most ppl arent there for pvp, they will join in if the fight looks like an easy win but for the most part only a select few are looking for a challenge.
Do yourself a favor and read my post on war zone improvements, it's a few pages back - has a dev post in it.
I know reading isnt your strong suit - but rest up, eat something healthy and try your best; who knows -maybe you'll learn something.
sadly You have it stuck in your head we who want rewards to remain in pvp 'need a bone.' we arent saying that. We just want to be rewarded equally for enjoying the game - just like the pvers do.
but not fair. that sorta change would be equally as detrimental as the 'simple' one regarding zero dilithum.
New people deserve to have some dilithum while their learning the ropes i think.
Guys there's nothing wrong with a slightly complex yet thorough solution to a problem.. srsly.
I get it - you want it done right and you want it done fast.
the thing is - those two things dont necessarily coincide.
I know you have it in your head cryptic wont do anything but the very most simple changes. But they can do so much more. I expect that from a company in the position to rake in cash off a game that's this good at it's core as this one.
I think you should too.
Unless you like where this game is currently - though if that were the case - you'd probably be playing it instead of coming here reading/posting about it.. one would imagine.
it's odd that you say u love the war zone -given that in a recent post i read it was clear you barely pvped in the war zone at all - and mocked my position that it was fun from before.
I'll put aside your pyschic predictions about what cryptic is likely to do as they are neither here nor there.
Yes I admit that I frequent the warzone less and less. Frankly I have over 4 MONTHS of in game time spent in kerrat. I am not saying I played there for 4 months... I am saying I spent 2500-3000 HOURS in Kerrat in the first year of STO. I enjoy Kerrat and when the right people are there it is the best PvP in STO. However I have to be honest about it as well... when the Dil reward was silly. There where 20 zones filled with Farmers. Nothing More. Yes some of them would fight back when you attacked them, make no mistake that they where not there for the PvP... as such they ran horrible builds... they often times didn't fight back... they where AFK more then they where present. 20 Zones... 19 of which where filled with junk. With the odd 1-2 hours of Real great PvP if you happened to get into the right zone.
We can debate the fact that it may have been better that way. The PvP may have been often lack luster, I will agree however that the zone did feel more alive.
Yes I would like to see a system in Arena and Cap and Hold where Only the winner is rewarded. Honestly though multiple devs have stated at various times in the past that such a system will never happen. Of course they could reverse that and they seem to forget what they say week to week anyway.
I don't really expect them to remove rewards from PvP... and I don't expect them to return Kerrat to its former Farmer Friendly nature either. They have not said they would never consider that, however I think we can all see that such a move (changing the warzone mission again to make it repeatable) is pretty much never going to happen.
The issue as I see it is thus.
Cryptic is not going to ever remove rewards for pacifist. (in there view such a thing would be un Trek).
Long Drawn out pool schemes... are complicated. I don't think Cryptic will choose an option that complicates things. (sure I'm guessing... pretty safe bet I think though)
So how many options does that leave us with....
- Reporting AFK player schemes... yes you can report them now and as we know not much happens... they could try to make that easier... of course I get the feeling Cryptic doesn't want to play Farmer Ref...
- Continuing on that idea you could look at automated Reporting ideas... like Team Vote Kick options that some games use... could work, could be abused.
So yes I throw out the just remove the dumb reward options. I am half kidden when I say it, if you didn't pick up on that. Really myself I would prefer they just removed it and the problem... I don't care if I get Dil for PvPing or not.
Still none of us have come up with a good solution that I think Cryptic and the Players can live with. Yes there should be a reward for PvPing... it is as valid a playstyle as PvEing all day. However not rewarding anyone is not going to be accepted by Cryptic... and I don't think they would accept an option like the vote kick that could cause abuse issues.
We can argue player to player all we want on the issue. Thing is nothing is going to change until Cryptic grows a set and Either moves to a Winner Reward... or Stronger Player Report / Boot System.
Here's an idea, remove dilithium rewards in arena/c&h, replace with pvp-centric rewards that are bound, and therefore untradable, such as tokens for some pvp-centric set items (utterly wishful thnking :P), or hell, I'd even accept even team batteries (but a bound version, usable by the receiver only).
Better yet make the reward just a number in the database linked to a ladder/ranking system and give pvp'ers the kind of reward we'd really like and value a whole lot more than Dilithium, bragging rights! :P
Guild Wars tried to do this for their random arenas in order to stop people AFKing and free-farming. Instead, all it did was make people come up with the plan of Red Resign - the red team would /resign or throw the match so that everyone could get it over quicker.
You can say that all of us in OPVP won't do it, but I don't trust the wider player base in STO not to come up with something similar.
Guild Wars tried to do this for their random arenas in order to stop people AFKing and free-farming. Instead, all it did was make people come up with the plan of Red Resign - the red team would /resign or throw the match so that everyone could get it over quicker.
Could you explain this a bit more? I think I don't quite understand what happened there.
If players keep forfeiting, they never win, so they never get rewards. How does this encourage forfeiting? I must be missing something here.
(And also: People are doing this already by suiciding without shields since ending the match as fast as possible (i.e. losing as fast as possible) is letting them earn their dilithium faster. Why would this become more commonplace when losing suddenly isn't a viable option anymore?)
The danger I see is that people ruin more matches than they do now because they have to AFK in more matches to finally AFK in a group that can win despite the AFKer.
Simply removing the dilithium rewards from PvP seems like it just moves the problem around. I don't like winner take all (for obious reasons) and I don't want to be pushed to PvE more to keep up with the things I need to remain competitive when I'd rather be PvPing. There is no substitution for a good Captain but the current business model is clearly emphasizing the importants of gear:(.
I'm not convinced you can base rewards on the score either since they can really only measure damage and healing. You can't account for a pug team being shut down by premades, a player being focused relentlessly, nor can you account for legitimate versus cheesy builds. I'd really hate to see the game start to incentivize the win at any cost mentality no matter how broken something is, more than the game already does.
Could you explain this a bit more? I think I don't quite understand what happened there.
If players keep forfeiting, they never win, so they never get rewards. How does this encourage forfeiting? I must be missing something here.
(And also: People are doing this already by suiciding without shields since ending the match as fast as possible (i.e. losing as fast as possible) is letting them earn their dilithium faster. Why would this become more commonplace when losing suddenly isn't a viable option anymore?)
The danger I see is that people ruin more matches than they do now because they have to AFK in more matches to finally AFK in a group that can win despite the AFKer.
He does have a point... depending how something like this was implemented. Kill trading could become an issue. In random ques I think it would be hard to setup 5 people willing to throw 3... with 5 people on the other side willing to throw the next 3... if Private ques rewarded this would happen. Don't see it happening in open ques though.
Many games that reward open world kills end up with Kill traders... anytime you reward kills instead of objectives this stuff will happen.
2 teams One is randomly put onto red team the other blue. Eventually you will be put on blue team. If I recall correctly the "red resign" stopped when they started watching and banning the resigners. (usually temp) myself included. *one of my 1st excursions into gw pvp and was told by team to resign * thought was norm. Learned my lesson.
Hmm....
How about: only the winning team get the reward for the PVP Daily?
You'd still run into the Red Resign problem. People on Red would resign knowing that the coin flip eventually puts them on Blue, where they'd win.
The Guild Wars solution of watching the PVP arenas and banning the resigners doesn't work here either because I doubt Cryptic has the manpower to watch these things, or review all the after-action logs for evidence of match-throwing.
I'm certainly in agreement that something should be done about the AFK farmers. I just want it to be well thought out so that we don't introduce something just as bad, or perhaps even worse.
If the potential for a stupid exploit exists - you can almost certainly guarantee players will find it!
Yes I admit that I frequent the warzone less and less. Frankly I have over 4 MONTHS of in game time spent in kerrat. I am not saying I played there for 4 months... I am saying I spent 2500-3000 HOURS in Kerrat in the first year of STO.
^ here's where you said it. so one could easily assume you havent been a serious pvper in the war zone for a year. if So you arent ina position to comment on war zone fun because you dont participate anymore. and a lot has changed i've heard.
^
i reread your post also.
so.. you pvp 3 to 4 hours... a week.
which is long enough to get your dilithium quest daily.
maybe. Assuming you do that everyday.. that's 30mins per day. Doesnt sound like you pvp anymore.
Even if you did pvp.. that's what, a 2 hour session on monday, 30 mins on wednesday.. and an hour on saturday and sunday? Definitely not the playtime of someone that loves - enjoys - wants to - pvp in the war zone. going from 8 to 10 hours a day to 3 to 4 a week is a pretty clear indictment on some critical mistake on cryptic's part. Unless you just got bored. forgive me if you answered this in your post above. I do bore easily of reading the same ole arguments.
I spent almost every night in the warzone from dusk till down for like a month and a half since F2P hit, and before their brilliant bugged daily dilithium warzone idea- just like u use to.. back a year ago, according to you. unless what you typed isnt to be believed.
I just wanted to add that, aside from the AFKers, the low tier ships and shuttles should be blocked from the public queues. There is one guy in particular who across however many characters he has, I've never seen in any queue with something other than a shuttle. How hard can it be to block out these guys, while leaving private queues as an option?
It's almost as obnoxious as ridiculously long drawn out character attacks on a forum.
I just wanted to add that, aside from the AFKers, the low tier ships and shuttles should be blocked from the public queues. There is one guy in particular who across however many characters he has, I've never seen in any queue with something other than a shuttle. How hard can it be to block out these guys, while leaving private queues as an option?
It's almost as obnoxious as ridiculously long drawn out character attacks on a forum.
Zing!
I've seen a lot of shuttles in STF's, and know a few players who enjoy doing it, but I have only seen 1 in PvP, ever. Still, it p'd me off when it happened. Seeing it frequently would probably send me into a nerd-rage of epic proportions.
^ here's where you said it. so one could easily assume you havent been a serious pvper in the war zone for a year. if So you arent ina position to comment on war zone fun because you dont participate anymore. and a lot has changed i've heard.
^
i reread your post also.
so.. you pvp 3 to 4 hours... a week.
which is long enough to get your dilithium quest daily.
maybe. Assuming you do that everyday.. that's 30mins per day. Doesnt sound like you pvp anymore.
Even if you did pvp.. that's what, a 2 hour session on monday, 30 mins on wednesday.. and an hour on saturday and sunday? Definitely not the playtime of someone that loves - enjoys - wants to - pvp in the war zone. going from 8 to 10 hours a day to 3 to 4 a week is a pretty clear indictment on some critical mistake on cryptic's part. Unless you just got bored. forgive me if you answered this in your post above. I do bore easily of reading the same ole arguments.
I spent almost every night in the warzone from dusk till down for like a month and a half since F2P hit, and before their brilliant bugged daily dilithium warzone idea- just like u use to.. back a year ago, according to you. unless what you typed isnt to be believed.
Say what you mean to say.
LOL
Kerrat is not the only PvP in STO.... I PvP 10-12 hours a week now in STO yes. Think about what I posted a sec.... (your argument is like saying a guy like Micheal Jorden would have nothing useful to say about basketball any more because he no longer hits the court every day... someone who plays the game as much as I did can keep up on the Small "or lack of any" changes by poking in for a few hours here and there yes)
in the first 12 MONTHS of launch... I spent a total of 4 MONTHS of REAL time in Kerrat.... I stated I don't spend that much time there any longer yes. I will spend 1-2 hours a week in kerrat these days... yes that is not alot when I would at one time spend entire days there. Reasons are 2 fold... one Yes I am sort of board of kerrat... really the main reason is its full of Sub Par PvPers and mainly I was board with the lack of PvP. The warzone farm reward was a joke... yes there was people there but there was not really any PvP... the farmers the zone was full of where a joke. At least now when I head there I will at times get a half way decent fight. Seriously though the games good PvPers don't go to kerrat they que for arenas... and even that is becoming less and less... sadly.
Comments
All we have to do is go afk and we still beat your fail fleet
KKTHX GG NOW I CHECK LOGS, NEED MOAR ASSIMILATORS AND LEECHES
Tieing the reward to the outcome is against the spirit of good sportsmanship and ST in general since people should be motivated to play and compete and not to win, at least not in an virtual world of a better tommorrow, we have enough of that in everyday life.
Please don't demotivate people from playing pvp by removing the dilithium rewards.
Making the Dilithium reward a Pot - the victory pot (i dunno how much so let just say 5000k max for the winner 4k for losers.
I'm no math wiz but a formula could be derived that could take the average dps of the group and we could fairly extrapolate from that a participant baseline. The pots for both sides could then be divided up evenly among all remaining players as long as they approach a reasonable % of this participation baseline.
So just to make it easy i'll make up some after match numbers
Team A
#1. BlasterMaster - 800k dps 300k healing 11 1
#2. Aegisdude - 600k dps 250k healing 7 5
#3. lawlzofFAWz - 555k dps 220k healing 7 5
#4. DewWutNao - 333k dps 124k healing 5 6
#5. FarmerDave - 0 dps 0 healing 0 0
Team B
#1. Tascort - 350k dps 223k healing 5 10
#2. PlasmaPete - 333k dps 290k healing 4 9
#3. Altorpsfour - 220k dps 190k healing 1 5
#4. Scrub 1 -178k dps 150k healing 0 6
#5. FarmerOrJusbad 88k dps 20k healing 0 3
we'll just pretend the dps and deaths approach what u'd expect on a winning and losing side.
So anyway, the way it would work is two fold
first anyone with 0 0 (like farmer dave above) would automatically be disqualified from getting dilithum and exp from being in the arena. that would instead be divided up and split among those who came - no participation [he wasnt really there so obviously the game should treat them as such. [i'm flexible with the foreiting dilithium idea vs having it distributed to the other remaining players who did] What's important is that the farmer get nada.
Next it would take an average of everyone with non zero dps and hmm i'm not sure at what % we could determine the difference between - hey has this guy tried vs this guy is just bad vs this farmer just flew in once or twice and pew pewed to avoid the 0 0 dilithium forfeit.
But i imagine there should be a sweet spot that could be determined. Maybe there is a simpler way to do it but this is the idea i've been liking so far. Maybe we should start up a discussion on possible solutions - between the lot of us i'm sure we can suss out a great idea.
Then we'll just have to wait for cryptic to get on board.
So lets start!
p.s. in the short term the best solution to this is clearly queuing with fleet and friends - hell even 2 friends queuing is more fun than solo. And dont worry about winning, that's decided after. I just focus on working on the teamwork between myself and my wingmen and try to have as much fun as possible - if the odds are stacked against u - for whatever reason, that's the time to hunt for personal glory. U dont owe those puggers anything - their in just like you are - trying to get a little dilithium and have a little fun with as little preparation as possible - they deserve no better than the luck of the draw imo. If their open to teamwork, go for it - if not you and ur bud do what you want - it'll be over before you know it.
If your serious about dilitihium and your any good - find a fleet or join that Opvp channel i've heard so much about and team up with them.
Still though i think making friends and growing together is the best way to have fun in pvp in the long run.
Meh, do what u wanna do.
dailys = officer reports, alhena, zibal, traelus, etc.
not other pvp or pve queues LMAO.
I am not even kidding its the one solution that Cryptic is likely to implement... it is the only solution there likely to not TRIBBLE up making PvP unplayable for a week or more. You know I'm right. Just remove Dil the farmers go away and when you get a pop you know its likley to be a good match.
Use a statistical model for the average. Throw out the high and low scores; then average. Anyone greater than -2deltas gets full dilithium.
Husa.. did u even read the last few pages of posts?
zero pvp dilithium is highly counterproductive. The only people who advocate this position are people who truly dont enjoy pvp in the first place - imo
and if my theory is correct - it makes one wonder why you are here in the pvp gameplay forums at all if all you do is constantly get behind poorly thought up ideas.
Do yourself and the forum a favor, scroll up, read my first post. - If you dont wanna that's fine.
But for those with the memory of a poorly nourished dog - They already zeroed dilithium out in the war zone - It ruined the warzone pvp - and that choice is directly responsible for the current problem with arenas, and the catalyst for this very thread being created.
---
I'll let that sink in for a moment for those who have yet to realize this.
---
i know yourself and many others didn't/don't have the skill, the drive, the inclination or the 5 bucks to participate in war zone pvp but it was the MOST Fun iv'e had in an mmo in the last 8 years, hands down. Not since planetside have i had that much fun. And i'm not exaggerating.
But because of one dumb idea - zero dilithium - it's all over. hundreds of players on my server and many others no longer have access to this fun.. Cryptic also loses out on the potential revenue c-store purchases from compeitive pvpers who loved in the war zone may have contributed.
The idea is fail².
Please don't suggest it unless you have compelling arguments to back it up.
somehow i doubt you'll take my advice, but i'll hope anyway.
Do yourself a favor and grab a clue. I far from hate PvP... I don't need a bone to enjoy it. I could care 2 shakes if I get Dil for PvP... I will still be quing for PvP... will you ?
The warzone is dead in YOUR opinion. The warzone is free of AFK farmers... that is all. Last I was there I still got all the fight I wanted... from people that fought back. Crazy I know right... they didn't park while I beat them up. lol
Fact... Cryptic is not going to role back changes made to the warzone Dilithium Reward....
Fact... AFK Players will exist as long as there is a Dilithium Reward....
FACT... NO REAL PvPer gives a shake about Dilithium Rewards.... IMO
There for Remove the Dilithium Rewards... and People that want to farm Dilithium can go find some PvE Map somewhere to hang out in....
PvP People that only PvP for Rewards can go away as well... and those of us that PvP for the shear enjoyment of PvP can enjoy Quing for PvP again, instead of being forced to private que all night to get proper matches.
As far as the warzone goes.... I love Kerrat and I hate Kerrat.... lets honestly hope Cryptic has a replacement in the pipe so it can be nuked at last.
BTW there is only one server. Also I spent a year and a half in the warzone friend... I know you are newer to the game, trust me I have played it out and am quite sick of fighting people that offer ZERO challange. Which has described the warzone for long before Dilithum was a twinkle in the most greedy of the devs eyes.
I'll put aside your pyschic predictions about what cryptic is likely to do as they are neither here nor there.
You strike me as the type who doesnt read threads thoroughly so i'll recap for you.
Before the dilithium change there were easily 15 to 20 non full pvp zones from peak time to morning.
Now your lucky to have access to 1 populated zone with pvpers in it and not just the few who still want to farm the purple item rewards.
I never said there was no war zone pvp anymore. It happens, but when it does happen the 15 person cap can be hit instantly. and that's it. 15 ppl get to have fun the rest of us are *** out unless some action jumps off somewhere. It's hard to know how many capped zones their are unless the ppl in those zones are chatting in zone chat. - but i dont think it's fair to limit the fun to just the ppl who are lucky enough to be in a warzone before it's locked - maybe you do.
That's how it is now. You can pretend like nothing has changed but anyone who actually does the warzone frequently knows It has - For the worst.
before you could switch around find fights. After we would clear a zone of the scrubs we'd hit transfer and keep going around. Now? when people quit. That's it. Your done until more ppl show up - but most ppl arent there for pvp, they will join in if the fight looks like an easy win but for the most part only a select few are looking for a challenge.
Do yourself a favor and read my post on war zone improvements, it's a few pages back - has a dev post in it.
I know reading isnt your strong suit - but rest up, eat something healthy and try your best; who knows -maybe you'll learn something.
sadly You have it stuck in your head we who want rewards to remain in pvp 'need a bone.' we arent saying that. We just want to be rewarded equally for enjoying the game - just like the pvers do.
Plz dont try and diminish that with your bs.
Solved, next.
S*D
Hard to argue... simple complete fix right there
Fancy schemes are exploitable... All or Nothing... or Nothing at all. Solves the issue.
but not fair. that sorta change would be equally as detrimental as the 'simple' one regarding zero dilithum.
New people deserve to have some dilithum while their learning the ropes i think.
Guys there's nothing wrong with a slightly complex yet thorough solution to a problem.. srsly.
I get it - you want it done right and you want it done fast.
the thing is - those two things dont necessarily coincide.
I know you have it in your head cryptic wont do anything but the very most simple changes. But they can do so much more. I expect that from a company in the position to rake in cash off a game that's this good at it's core as this one.
I think you should too.
Unless you like where this game is currently - though if that were the case - you'd probably be playing it instead of coming here reading/posting about it.. one would imagine.
Yes I admit that I frequent the warzone less and less. Frankly I have over 4 MONTHS of in game time spent in kerrat. I am not saying I played there for 4 months... I am saying I spent 2500-3000 HOURS in Kerrat in the first year of STO. I enjoy Kerrat and when the right people are there it is the best PvP in STO. However I have to be honest about it as well... when the Dil reward was silly. There where 20 zones filled with Farmers. Nothing More. Yes some of them would fight back when you attacked them, make no mistake that they where not there for the PvP... as such they ran horrible builds... they often times didn't fight back... they where AFK more then they where present. 20 Zones... 19 of which where filled with junk. With the odd 1-2 hours of Real great PvP if you happened to get into the right zone.
We can debate the fact that it may have been better that way. The PvP may have been often lack luster, I will agree however that the zone did feel more alive.
Yes I would like to see a system in Arena and Cap and Hold where Only the winner is rewarded. Honestly though multiple devs have stated at various times in the past that such a system will never happen. Of course they could reverse that and they seem to forget what they say week to week anyway.
I don't really expect them to remove rewards from PvP... and I don't expect them to return Kerrat to its former Farmer Friendly nature either. They have not said they would never consider that, however I think we can all see that such a move (changing the warzone mission again to make it repeatable) is pretty much never going to happen.
The issue as I see it is thus.
Cryptic is not going to ever remove rewards for pacifist. (in there view such a thing would be un Trek).
Long Drawn out pool schemes... are complicated. I don't think Cryptic will choose an option that complicates things. (sure I'm guessing... pretty safe bet I think though)
So how many options does that leave us with....
- Reporting AFK player schemes... yes you can report them now and as we know not much happens... they could try to make that easier... of course I get the feeling Cryptic doesn't want to play Farmer Ref...
- Continuing on that idea you could look at automated Reporting ideas... like Team Vote Kick options that some games use... could work, could be abused.
So yes I throw out the just remove the dumb reward options. I am half kidden when I say it, if you didn't pick up on that. Really myself I would prefer they just removed it and the problem... I don't care if I get Dil for PvPing or not.
Still none of us have come up with a good solution that I think Cryptic and the Players can live with. Yes there should be a reward for PvPing... it is as valid a playstyle as PvEing all day. However not rewarding anyone is not going to be accepted by Cryptic... and I don't think they would accept an option like the vote kick that could cause abuse issues.
We can argue player to player all we want on the issue. Thing is nothing is going to change until Cryptic grows a set and Either moves to a Winner Reward... or Stronger Player Report / Boot System.
Better yet make the reward just a number in the database linked to a ladder/ranking system and give pvp'ers the kind of reward we'd really like and value a whole lot more than Dilithium, bragging rights! :P
Udat / Dias / Syrad - Lafamilia
You have to be really careful about this one.
Guild Wars tried to do this for their random arenas in order to stop people AFKing and free-farming. Instead, all it did was make people come up with the plan of Red Resign - the red team would /resign or throw the match so that everyone could get it over quicker.
You can say that all of us in OPVP won't do it, but I don't trust the wider player base in STO not to come up with something similar.
If players keep forfeiting, they never win, so they never get rewards. How does this encourage forfeiting? I must be missing something here.
(And also: People are doing this already by suiciding without shields since ending the match as fast as possible (i.e. losing as fast as possible) is letting them earn their dilithium faster. Why would this become more commonplace when losing suddenly isn't a viable option anymore?)
The danger I see is that people ruin more matches than they do now because they have to AFK in more matches to finally AFK in a group that can win despite the AFKer.
I'm not convinced you can base rewards on the score either since they can really only measure damage and healing. You can't account for a pug team being shut down by premades, a player being focused relentlessly, nor can you account for legitimate versus cheesy builds. I'd really hate to see the game start to incentivize the win at any cost mentality no matter how broken something is, more than the game already does.
He does have a point... depending how something like this was implemented. Kill trading could become an issue. In random ques I think it would be hard to setup 5 people willing to throw 3... with 5 people on the other side willing to throw the next 3... if Private ques rewarded this would happen. Don't see it happening in open ques though.
Many games that reward open world kills end up with Kill traders... anytime you reward kills instead of objectives this stuff will happen.
are you admitting that you haven't pvped in kerrat since it went f2p? and that your impressions of the war zone are from over a year ago?
and your actually claiming you know how it is now? or did i not read that right.
i really hope i'm mistaken, otherwise, wow.
When did I say that ?
I said I used to be there Every day and I am no longer there every day...
I hang out in Kerrat 3-4 hours a week... at one time I hung out in kerrat 8-10 hours a day. lol
Re-Read the post.
2 teams One is randomly put onto red team the other blue. Eventually you will be put on blue team. If I recall correctly the "red resign" stopped when they started watching and banning the resigners. (usually temp) myself included. *one of my 1st excursions into gw pvp and was told by team to resign * thought was norm. Learned my lesson.
How about: only the winning team get the reward for the PVP Daily?
You'd still run into the Red Resign problem. People on Red would resign knowing that the coin flip eventually puts them on Blue, where they'd win.
The Guild Wars solution of watching the PVP arenas and banning the resigners doesn't work here either because I doubt Cryptic has the manpower to watch these things, or review all the after-action logs for evidence of match-throwing.
I'm certainly in agreement that something should be done about the AFK farmers. I just want it to be well thought out so that we don't introduce something just as bad, or perhaps even worse.
If the potential for a stupid exploit exists - you can almost certainly guarantee players will find it!
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
^
i reread your post also.
so.. you pvp 3 to 4 hours... a week.
which is long enough to get your dilithium quest daily.
maybe. Assuming you do that everyday.. that's 30mins per day. Doesnt sound like you pvp anymore.
Even if you did pvp.. that's what, a 2 hour session on monday, 30 mins on wednesday.. and an hour on saturday and sunday? Definitely not the playtime of someone that loves - enjoys - wants to - pvp in the war zone. going from 8 to 10 hours a day to 3 to 4 a week is a pretty clear indictment on some critical mistake on cryptic's part. Unless you just got bored. forgive me if you answered this in your post above. I do bore easily of reading the same ole arguments.
I spent almost every night in the warzone from dusk till down for like a month and a half since F2P hit, and before their brilliant bugged daily dilithium warzone idea- just like u use to.. back a year ago, according to you. unless what you typed isnt to be believed.
Say what you mean to say.
It's almost as obnoxious as ridiculously long drawn out character attacks on a forum.
Zing!
I've seen a lot of shuttles in STF's, and know a few players who enjoy doing it, but I have only seen 1 in PvP, ever. Still, it p'd me off when it happened. Seeing it frequently would probably send me into a nerd-rage of epic proportions.
LOL
Kerrat is not the only PvP in STO.... I PvP 10-12 hours a week now in STO yes. Think about what I posted a sec.... (your argument is like saying a guy like Micheal Jorden would have nothing useful to say about basketball any more because he no longer hits the court every day... someone who plays the game as much as I did can keep up on the Small "or lack of any" changes by poking in for a few hours here and there yes)
in the first 12 MONTHS of launch... I spent a total of 4 MONTHS of REAL time in Kerrat.... I stated I don't spend that much time there any longer yes. I will spend 1-2 hours a week in kerrat these days... yes that is not alot when I would at one time spend entire days there. Reasons are 2 fold... one Yes I am sort of board of kerrat... really the main reason is its full of Sub Par PvPers and mainly I was board with the lack of PvP. The warzone farm reward was a joke... yes there was people there but there was not really any PvP... the farmers the zone was full of where a joke. At least now when I head there I will at times get a half way decent fight. Seriously though the games good PvPers don't go to kerrat they que for arenas... and even that is becoming less and less... sadly.
Look at its awesome damage: http://denkbassin.de/extern/sto/2011-11-28-Golfball-Klingons.jpg