The answer is not to increase the time needed to level but to better design and implement those systems that are put in place to allow players t learn.
Further regardless of how long it takes to level there will still eb players who do not take the time to learn the game. You should not punish all players for the failing of a few.
Better develope the tutroials and the game guides to allow those palyers to better learn the systems. But if you just arbitrarily increase the amount of time it takes to level you, and not imporve the experience and make it more enjoyable, you will simply lose players. Bothe good players and bad.
In all the MMO's I have played (and there have been many) the ultimate responsibility to elarn the system is on the player and to a greater extent the community at large. Complaints that players do not know what they are doing is common. Howver many times this is due to other players simply refusing to take the time to educate the new players and show them the ropes, a staple of the MMO genres, instead of how fast folks level.
The answer is not to increase the time needed to level but to better design and implement those systems that are put in place to allow players t learn.
Further regardless of how long it takes to level there will still eb players who do not take the time to learn the game. You should not punish all players for the failing of a few.
Better develope the tutroials and the game guides to allow those palyers to better learn the systems. But if you just arbitrarily increase the amount of time it takes to level you, and not imporve the experience and make it more enjoyable, you will simply lose players. Bothe good players and bad.
In all the MMO's I have played (and there have been many) the ultimate responsibility to elarn the system is on the player and to a greater extent the community at large. Complaints that players do not know what they are doing is common. Howver many times this is due to other players simply refusing to take the time to educate the new players and show them the ropes, a staple of the MMO genres, instead of how fast folks level.
a 4 year old could play this game it dose not take much learning to play it at all now if this is your first mmo ever then I could see learning come in to play but really even then dose take a rocket scientists to play this game world of warcraft takes more learning then sto eveonline takes way more then wow them game are not like sto like new kirk sits in a chair points finger pew pew pew and all blow up that is sto
I agree with a lot of what the OP states about leveling. But, in addressing leveling I think game companies need to ask one basic question " When does our game begin" Games that have quick leveling curves need tons of end game content. I remember leveling my first toon on WoW and realizing I didn't really know what the game was about until I hit level cap. Other games like Asheron's Call and City of Heroes where leveling was slower I felt very omni powerful at cap. I think STO is now in the same boat as Wow.. it's fast leveling. I'm OK with the leveling speed as long as end game content is being produced..
Hoepfully Dan's answers in the last Ask Cryptic provides some clues. It appears there will be a Tholian Invasion. Ideally that story content will deliver more STF's better fleet actions and more endgame content..
I don't mind levelling kinda quick, just now blink and oh miss a rank, I don't feel as if you spend any real time using any of the lower level items and ships oh get/buy , I just on Thursday bought the nx01 from the c-store and I'm glad I got that buy collection dilithium rather than paying for it. I would be to impressed had I actually payed for it and not getting any real use from it. I coulda ranked up in a night .
We've complained about this since the game launched, at least. Their response was to SPEED UP leveling.
We get FAR TOO MANY skill points for doing things, and skill points for things we probably shouldn't, on the order of TEN TIMES too much, at least.
My suggestion was, and IS, that they let us freeze our level. That is, suppose I want my character to stay a Commander. I can click a button to disable skill point gains. I'd still get other rewards, like items, dilithium and BO points, but my own skill points would not increase, and so my level would not increase. Of course, I wouldn't have access to higher level ships and gear, but that's part of the point, I think.
If this game was made a different way.... That I had this idea a long time...
A game where you don't captain a ship right away... But you join a ship acting as a duty officer, then become a bridge officer, and then become a captain. As the Captain you recruit other players to join your ship.
One of the problems of the idea is that not all players would be online on the ship.
You would have to have duties on the ship where your character has to research, work, repair, etc.
But if the ship is active and has good set of players. The high level officers would want the low level to work on the ship and do well on their job. Because the low levels could make the ship fight better in combat when they work on the ship.
Idea is good to make other players become a team on one ship and new player will have leaders and teachers to help them. The higher officer could trust these members in the crew and give them bonus away missions.
But that was a idea that would be hard to do for a game. No wonder about levels and learning would good.
Other than that, You could explore the whole ship.
I think before allowing anyone to join the PvE for very first time.
I think new players need to go to the holodeck and pass like 5 stages of training.
If this game was made a different way.... That I had this idea a long time...
A game where you don't captain a ship right away... But you join a ship acting as a duty officer, then become a bridge officer, and then become a captain. As the Captain you recruit other players to join your ship.
One of the problems of the idea is that not all players would be online on the ship.
You would have to have duties on the ship where your character has to research, work, repair, etc.
But if the ship is active and has good set of players. The high level officers would want the low level to work on the ship and do well on their job. Because the low levels could make the ship fight better in combat when they work on the ship.
Idea is good to make other players become a team on one ship and new player will have leaders and teachers to help them. The higher officer could trust these members in the crew and give them bonus away missions.
But that was a idea that would be hard to do for a game. No wonder about levels and learning would good.
Other than that, You could explore the whole ship.
I think before allowing anyone to join the PvE for very first time.
I think new players need to go to the holodeck and pass like 5 stages of training.
some of this sounds like the sto I was hopeing for like players could come on your ship take like the helm tac so also kinda like star trek bridge commander
some of this sounds like the sto I was hopeing for like players could come on your ship take like the helm tac so also kinda like star trek bridge commander
Star Trek Bridge Commander was a great game. Always wonder what it would be like as a MMO.
If this game was made a different way.... That I had this idea a long time...
A game where you don't captain a ship right away... But you join a ship acting as a duty officer, then become a bridge officer, and then become a captain. As the Captain you recruit other players to join your ship.
One of the problems of the idea is that not all players would be online on the ship.
You would have to have duties on the ship where your character has to research, work, repair, etc.
But if the ship is active and has good set of players. The high level officers would want the low level to work on the ship and do well on their job. Because the low levels could make the ship fight better in combat when they work on the ship.
Idea is good to make other players become a team on one ship and new player will have leaders and teachers to help them. The higher officer could trust these members in the crew and give them bonus away missions.
But that was a idea that would be hard to do for a game. No wonder about levels and learning would good.
Other than that, You could explore the whole ship.
I think before allowing anyone to join the PvE for very first time.
I think new players need to go to the holodeck and pass like 5 stages of training.
I think this would have been fun, you know your gonna get the *** the drops Sheilds for the fun or it because they work on that console lol even that would be a laugh lol,
Not to point fingers at any player from any nation. But when you get a player who don't speak your language in the game. You have a hard time teaching them than players from your own language.
Good that some could speak many languages and work in a team. But, the ones who can't and level up from the fast leveling. I feel that they don't understand or care for their other players from another nation.
It makes us expert players upset when they pull they same stunts or we can help them finish a mission.
That why having more training would help newer free players work better with us.
A fail missions too many times is a waste of time. I don't know if newer players understand this.
I think leveling should be removed entirely. MMOs still depend too much on the supposed 'character advancement' crutch, and it is twice as bad when that crutch is a pointless level system.
What would you replace it with, though? Levelling is a tried and true system for letting people learn the game and set up their character.
I started playing maybe, three, four weeks ago? I'm not entirely sure. While the 2800 missions were still special. Anyway, I finished leveling my first Fed 50 within a single week. I had no idea what I was doing at all, and hit the cap before my seventh day. Today, I've added two KDFs to that roster and am currently working on my second Fed. Since I actually have learned the game already (as in, play and win elite STFs) I enjoy that leveling is nice and quick for the new characters I make. Other games with far more classes to choose from take much longer to level and the grind is that much less fun, only now you're doing it on a tank/support class because you started on a DPS to learn game mechanics without breaking something.
That said? Leveling in STO is too fast, I agree. The entire time I've been playing, I've been playing with one to three other people I know from other games and play frequently online with. Being the most active gamer in our group, my leveling progress was even slowed since I repeatedly stop to either wait for a friend to get online or wait for them to catch up on their own and despite that, I'm already where I am with a 50 in each role. That doesn't seem like the right speed to me even though my alarmingly short attention span appreciated it.
Seeing people in STFs normal and elite alike that don't have experience or even bother to read the chat is enough reason in and of itself for me to want the leveling slope to be re-balanced a bit. (I understand it already was once, so, again please?)
I started playing maybe, three, four weeks ago? I'm not entirely sure. While the 2800 missions were still special. Anyway, I finished leveling my first Fed 50 within a single week. I had no idea what I was doing at all, and hit the cap before my seventh day. Today, I've added two KDFs to that roster and am currently working on my second Fed. Since I actually have learned the game already (as in, play and win elite STFs) I enjoy that leveling is nice and quick for the new characters I make. Other games with far more classes to choose from take much longer to level and the grind is that much less fun, only now you're doing it on a tank/support class because you started on a DPS to learn game mechanics without breaking something.
That said? Leveling in STO is too fast, I agree. The entire time I've been playing, I've been playing with one to three other people I know from other games and play frequently online with. Being the most active gamer in our group, my leveling progress was even slowed since I repeatedly stop to either wait for a friend to get online or wait for them to catch up on their own and despite that, I'm already where I am with a 50 in each role. That doesn't seem like the right speed to me even though my alarmingly short attention span appreciated it.
Seeing people in STFs normal and elite alike that don't have experience or even bother to read the chat is enough reason in and of itself for me to want the leveling slope to be re-balanced a bit. (I understand it already was once, so, again please?)
It's good to see even the newest players to the game thinks leveling is too fast. It's also good that you said " I had no idea what I was doing at all, and hit the cap before my seventh day." This mean many players like your self might feel the same way. Yes, having a slope rebalanced might solve some STF problems.
It's hard for a players to mature when there is a short time to know what they are doing. I myself realize the stories of each mission and the links to the series. I also learn about leveling and skills of my Bridge officers. I learn more about changing weapon from phasers to other types because of enemies weakness.
Where now... I ask a new player "Why you use that type of weapon and gear?"
The player answered... "It looks cool because its really white and shoot a red laser."
"I don't know. Just got any thing for my level."
I have only one question for you... How are you defining the term "Veteran" in your opening post of this thread. As far as I understand it in this game, Cryptic Defines the term Veteran as anyone who is willing to subscribe to their monthly, tri-monthly, bi-annual or lifetime membership. Realistically however a Veteran should be defined as someone who has been playing the game a relativistically speaking long time, or who has experience with similar types of games and knows what they are doing.
So the question ultimately is, how is it that you are defining the term.
If you are defining it the way that Cryptic Defines it, then your entire argument is null and void, because a person who started playing yesterday can just as easily purchase a subscription to the game and thereby be considered a "veteran" as far as Cryptic is concerned.
If you are referring to it in a more realistic way, then that argument has some validity, but is further complicated by the fact that just because a person is new to this game in particular does not mean that they don't have experience with other similar games (i.e. other MMORPG's) and thus they don't have the know how on how to play in teams of people or any of the other TRIBBLE that you complained about. Simply put you are inserting your foot into your mouth by complaining about this stuff when you apparently have very little experience with anything other than this one game.
I myself for example have played approximately at least 4 different MMORPG's for a relatively decent amount of time before starting this one. About the only things I had to get used to that were considerably different from those other MMORPG's were the mechanics employing guns (easy to get used to since it wasn't all that different from spellcasting in other games), and the mechanics of space flight (a tad bit harder to get used to as it was entirely new to me)... All in all I think I have adjusted fairly well and have become a fairly good contributor to the game world. Assuming that a person must suck just because the leveling curve is so darned high is a tad insulting to that person's intelligence.
I agree the leveling is too fast, but there are always going to be power levelers in any MMO. What Cryptic could do to nip this in the bud would be to tie a players rank into the C-Store which would make exp & skill points gained irrelevant.
Just think of the money Cryptic will raise if this system is implemented. Everybody will get endless content and probably several game expansions to boot!
Players don't want to pay up? No problem, they can easily farm around 39 million refined dilithium and get it for free.
I agree the leveling is too fast, but there are always going to be power levelers in any MMO. What Cryptic could do to nip this in the bud would be to tie a players rank into the C-Store which would make exp & skill points gained irrelevant.
Just think of the money Cryptic will raise if this system is implemented. Everybody will get endless content and probably several game expansions to boot!
Players don't want to pay up? No problem, they can easily farm around 39 million refined dilithium and get it for free.
No offence but that to me seems ridiculous, having to pay for your rank! Would it be better to have everyone join a fleet and fleet leaders give the promotion, I know you can be promoted within fleets as it is but maybe then we would all have to work for our ranks. So rather than Quinn dishing out ranks the feet leaders decide between themselves who's due a promotion.
Just chiming in here as a new player. I started playing a few weeks ago and had my first 50 within two weeks. I wasn't even finished the romulan story arc, and once I got to 50 and realized that there were no new free ships to get at that rank I pretty much just lost interest in the character.
I think the leveling speed is greatly emphasized in that, when getting your new ship you don't even bother looking at new gear for it because you know you're only going to have it for a few hours worth of play time.
Add to that that in the time playing I hadn't even made enough dilithium to buy a commander rank ship by the time I was level 50 and it all just seems kinda.... hollow. I mean, what's there to do once you get to 50? Grind STF's for better gear to do what? Grind STF's faster? PVP? I have no desire to even try that without some kinda of risk and reward type system in place.(I do pvp and enjoy it in other MMO's, I come from Eve Online which is pretty much all pvp all the time)
I also think that it is absolutely TRIBBLE that you cannot start a klingon character without A) getting to 25 in fed(wtf?), and starting at level 1. Seriously, why are there even lt and lt. commander rank ships there?
All that said, I think it's a fun game. I think it would be more fun if we weren't rushed through the game and given more choice throughout the game as to which arcs were wanted to play without them being tied to being a certain level. It would certainly make replayability better.
If you want to gate the elite level STFs because you don't want to play w/ noobs, then address that directly. There are many better ways of doing that. Extending the leveling process is not going to do a damn thing, other than make people not want to play alts.
You never see characters getting promoted more than 3 times
Between the Prime and Alternate Universes Kirk has been promoted at least 4 times, possibly 5 times in a total of 15 years. Further, as far as I know most Captains don't even make it to Admiralty, for example I am 90% certain that Picard never made it to the Admiral's chair, despite having an arguably more illustrious career than Kirk. Janeway however did make it to the Admiral's Chair, though it took her 7 years and the charting of the majority of the Delta Quadrant to achieve that feat.
I would agree. Leveling is now at a insane rate. It is at minimum 10 times faster than it should be. There have been so many threads/comments about this not only on the forums but in the game as well. Not a good idea PWE, you are cutting your own throat. Uh last I looked MMO's WANTED people to play the game longer, not shorter. Now I know this is going to be hard for you to understand. But when people play more and play longer, well you make more money. I'm sure you like to make money and your'e not just here because you are the worlds first Philantropist MMO company. Now I know I'm stretching it but well I'd suggest slowing the game down. Most people here do not want to make VA in 15 minutes. Thanks!!
I think you people are over-estimating the contribution that Perfect World Entertainment (and by proxy Wanmei) have on this game. If my understanding of the relationship between Wanmei, Perfect World Entertainment, and Cryptic is correct it is sort of akin to the relationship between the European Unions Central Government, Great Britains Government, and any individual city in England's Government. Basically while the European Union controls the vast majority of the International Politics and what not, it is ultimately up to the Parliament of Great Britain to determine their national laws, and in turn it is up to the local government to decide upon local laws and enforce all the national, international and local laws. I mean you can't expect the Royal Air Force or what have you to come to a small town in England and perform Police Duties, nor can you expect the equivalent there of from the European Union to do the same job.
In essence it is ultimately Cryptic Studio's who has final say in how the game is administrated, as well as how the game is produced. Sure, Perfect World Entertainment may have the final veto on any given aspect of the game, but I doubt they are going to go out of their way to specifically say that Cryptic Studio CANNOT Slow the leveling process of Star Trek Online down, especially considering the fact that the game "Perfect World International" requires something on the order of 2,000,000,000 to 3,000,000,000 Experience Points in order to reach the highest level in that game, and that the highest amount of experience that someone can expect to get on a regular basis from a quest or monster sits somewhere around 200,000 XP (and by regular basis I mean once a day). At that rate it would take approximately 15,000 days to reach max level in that game, thats the equivalent of 41 years... (this is of course assuming that you do nothing but that one quest, in reality the rate is actually closer to 1 to 2 years to reach maximum level under ideal circumstances, 2 to 3 under less than ideal circumstances. More than that under horrible circumstances).
My point being that if you want to see what slow leveling is like, then play some of the other Perfect World Entertainment Games... heck in Jade Dynasty once you get to max level, you get shot back down to level 1 and have to start climbing the level ladder all over again (granted the second time through you have some neat bonus features you didn't have the first time, but still). So basically before you complain that Perfect World Entertainment knows nothing about what Customers want when it comes to leveling slowly and methodically, I suggest doing some research on the topic.
Previously (with the old leveling system) -- we got players who tried out PVP only after they reached Level 51 (when they ran out of things to do) , ... and they often sucked at it because they had no experience .
That has also made them quit PVP fast for the very same reason .
Now we have a lot of players who get to Level 50 very fast , and they lack experience in a multitude of things ... -- from equipment issues to not knowing how to attach an item in the Mailing system .
And these are the very same ppl who try to do STF's on Elite .
(not that there is anything wrong with trying STF's -- I was just pointing to the state of some of the playerbase)
All that said, I think it's a fun game. I think it would be more fun if we weren't rushed through the game and given more choice throughout the game as to which arcs were wanted to play without them being tied to being a certain level. It would certainly make replayability better.
Rushing through the levels I don't mind. It's what to do when you reach 50 that I mind. There's just not enough to do. We have, what, STFs? With very few items worth acquiring? There's no endgame.
Level 50 is a real letdown, and that has nothing to do with leveling too fast. Even if it took twice as long you're still stuck with very little to do. Leveling speed is irrelevant when there's no endgame.
I'm a slow leveler. In Lord of the Rings Online (admittedly a somewhat slower leveling game), I spent nearly TWO YEARS at L26. I've been playing that game since BEFORE it launched, and I STILL don't have a character at the max level (though I have two past the original max level). I played Galaxies and City of Heroes for about 7 years each and never reached the max level.
Here, I reached max level in less than a month. That was back shortly after launch. Now I could do it in a week, perhaps two (and without wanting to).
I keep trying to AVOID doing missions because I don't want to level, but that means I'm not getting dilithium, which you HAVE to have to do pretty much anything in the game anymore.
For me it's not the fact that players don't know what they are doing ( as I can't talk , pretty sure there lots I don't know about yet) its that I think levelling si fast has taking the fun out of it, I started again so I can play coop with a friend of mine . I want to enjoy the lower class ships , I'd like it to be a bit of a challenge to get ranked up or Atleast a bit more time consuming .
I have only one question for you... How are you defining the term "Veteran" in your opening post of this thread. As far as I understand it in this game, Cryptic Defines the term Veteran as anyone who is willing to subscribe to their monthly, tri-monthly, bi-annual or lifetime membership. Realistically however a Veteran should be defined as someone who has been playing the game a relativistically speaking long time, or who has experience with similar types of games and knows what they are doing.
I myself for example have played approximately at least 4 different MMORPG's for a relatively decent amount of time before starting this one. About the only things I had to get used to that were considerably different from those other MMORPG's were the mechanics employing guns (easy to get used to since it wasn't all that different from spellcasting in other games), and the mechanics of space flight (a tad bit harder to get used to as it was entirely new to me)... All in all I think I have adjusted fairly well and have become a fairly good contributor to the game world. Assuming that a person must suck just because the leveling curve is so darned high is a tad insulting to that person's intelligence.
My term for Veteran is any one who paid for the game with subscription, before it was Free to play, and least played 6 to 8 week of the game.
Also am not going to do contest with you as who played the most in MMOs. I believe, I am much older and having more experiences than just 4 MMO games, and taken classes in Game Design from college. But I am not a major in Game Design and others could be more experience than I.
When I say "learning curve" doesn't mean that you have to dumb down the game for people to learn to play.
It means giving the player small hints and clues in what they should do during their quest. And with any thing else that is new, to show a example of a setup and how it works and give the player chance to work with the new item a few times...
Well, it not a MMO. But the Mega Man series has always given the player a great learning curve. You don't even know it's there.
Just chiming in here as a new player. I started playing a few weeks ago and had my first 50 within two weeks. I wasn't even finished the romulan story arc, and once I got to 50 and realized that there were no new free ships to get at that rank I pretty much just lost interest in the character.
I think the leveling speed is greatly emphasized in that, when getting your new ship you don't even bother looking at new gear for it because you know you're only going to have it for a few hours worth of play time.
Add to that that in the time playing I hadn't even made enough dilithium to buy a commander rank ship by the time I was level 50 and it all just seems kinda.... hollow. I mean, what's there to do once you get to 50? Grind STF's for better gear to do what? Grind STF's faster? PVP? I have no desire to even try that without some kinda of risk and reward type system in place.(I do pvp and enjoy it in other MMO's, I come from Eve Online which is pretty much all pvp all the time)
I also think that it is absolutely TRIBBLE that you cannot start a klingon character without A) getting to 25 in fed(wtf?), and starting at level 1. Seriously, why are there even lt and lt. commander rank ships there?
All that said, I think it's a fun game. I think it would be more fun if we weren't rushed through the game and given more choice throughout the game as to which arcs were wanted to play without them being tied to being a certain level. It would certainly make replayability better.
Yes, it could leave you confused and not have the best gear, ships, and dilithuim as other level 50s who leveled up before free to play. I could understand how you feel and new players need to tell Perfect World and Cryptic to "slow down the leveling" because I feel "rushed".
If your a new player or old player. Send a message to them. They might change it?
... You are the expert and others should follow your lead. Newer players thinking missions are the same as the early part of the game. That are less complex and the missions slowly get little complex in later missions and the few early low level PvE. Not doing some missions past Romulan missions is a big leap to DS9 and STF missions.
As the expert player in the mission... You have to lead and teach them how its done. But some newer players are bit self-center from the lack of doing any thing hard and not able to work with others in some early missions. When they reach something hard in the mission. They sometimes don't listen to the expert player, try to do it again with out a plan, not talking to their teammates, or just quitting leave other players upset.
Some these players have not even speak a word in chat.
Some people like to have their independence than being told what to do.
The fact is that you might need to be told what to do. I myself have to follow a guild leader and elder members to finish a mission in other games in life. Real life is like that too.
Some people don't have time to teach anyone now days and tell them go to a website.
It all crazy with problems... Some one needs to give some order in this disorder problems.
This is the problem in STFs. The ignorance imbued by the leveling speed is astounding. And, yes, I mean ignorance; for they are ignorant of how to do the STFs in a method that results in success. They are ignorant as to how to setup their ship loadouts and bridge officer powers. When to use and WHEN NOT TO USE those abilities. (I can't tell you how many nanite generators have been 'sploded ahead of schedule because jackwagon is indiscriminately using FAW.)
Unfortunately, most are as you indicate ... silent. Not only do they not follow guidance, they blatantly ignore it thinking they know better.
The answer is not to increase the time needed to level but to better design and implement those systems that are put in place to allow players t learn.
Further regardless of how long it takes to level there will still eb players who do not take the time to learn the game. You should not punish all players for the failing of a few.
Better develope the tutroials and the game guides to allow those palyers to better learn the systems. But if you just arbitrarily increase the amount of time it takes to level you, and not imporve the experience and make it more enjoyable, you will simply lose players. Bothe good players and bad.
In all the MMO's I have played (and there have been many) the ultimate responsibility to elarn the system is on the player and to a greater extent the community at large. Complaints that players do not know what they are doing is common. Howver many times this is due to other players simply refusing to take the time to educate the new players and show them the ropes, a staple of the MMO genres, instead of how fast folks level.
Yes, the answer IS to slow the leveling process. They have introduced a system that ADDs to the the speed ... Duty Officers. Yet, they did nothing to compensate for the "free" xp. Leveling speed was arbitrarily increase.
You cannot honestly believe that someone can develop the skill necessary to handle: 20+abilities, maneuvering, threat recognition, applied powers, timing, etc. in a couple of weeks. Not a chance in perdition's flame. Slowing the progression will give even casual players the time to hone these skills.
There are MANY of us veterans (daily gamers since launch and beta) who try to take the time to provide instruction and guidance. Hell, we write GUIDES to assist. Many players simply refuse to take the time to realize that they lack the experience (true experience) and think they are just another Kirk in Spaceland.
I've played MMOs where it took YEARS to reach level cap. There were no tutorials in those games beyond what is provided here.
I agree the leveling is too fast, but there are always going to be power levelers in any MMO. What Cryptic could do to nip this in the bud would be to tie a players rank into the C-Store which would make exp & skill points gained irrelevant.
Yes, there will always be power levelers, but they are not the problem. The power leveler is a small fraction of any playerbase. The problem is the casual player being wisked through to VA.
I think the leveling speed is greatly emphasized in that, when getting your new ship you don't even bother looking at new gear for it because you know you're only going to have it for a few hours worth of play time.
...
I also think that it is absolutely TRIBBLE that you cannot start a klingon character without A) getting to 25 in fed(wtf?), and starting at level 1. Seriously, why are there even lt and lt. commander rank ships there?
re:Ships, Exactly, why bother to learn when it's just going to be cast aside in a few hours. Sure LT sucks and the Centaur/Miranda is ungodly slow, but that level can be left quick. As a player progresses the speed of that progression needs to be curbed ... a lot.
Best way to learn something is to dive in headfirst. An extended leveling process is not going to make as big of a difference as that player just doing some entry level STFs, or running some PvP matches.
If you want to gate the elite level STFs because you don't want to play w/ noobs, then address that directly. There are many better ways of doing that. Extending the leveling process is not going to do a damn thing, other than make people not want to play alts.
Extending the leveling won't make playing Alts bad. Unless the only alts you roll are the same class, you have 2 additional opportunities to learn the game from a different angle. If you play both factions you can enjoy it 6 times. That kind of thinking is what leads to people thinking that a DPS Engineer can bot heal fantastic and fight fantastic at the same time. (Yes, I know, but Era is an exception to the casual rule.)
I was a rank Lieutenant in the normal leveling once before. I don't recall me thinking.... "This ship sucks."
I was more thinking about "whats next mission?", "Where to put these skill points?, and "Cool the voice of Spock!.
When you got promote to the next rank.... You was mostly ok about your ships and didn't hate it too death.
I been playing with some friends lately again. At Lieutenant rank... No one said that "their ship sucks".
They were all about the next mission.
Some how I think a few players who wasn't the normal group of players just ***** about every thing. They happened to been heard by some one who could change the game...
Now I think it's the many who is saying leveling is too fast and no one is listening to us who could do something.
I just hope some hears us now and slower do the leveling that is ok for every one. Ok leveling is better than crazy insane leveling.
My term for Veteran is any one who paid for the game with subscription, before it was Free to play, and least played 6 to 8 week of the game.
So then are you excluding people who have played the game for 6 to 8 weeks, but who only started playing after the game went free to play? If so, then that seems a teensy bit elitist if you ask me.
Also am not going to do contest with you as who played the most in MMOs. I believe, I am much older and having more experiences than just 4 MMO games, and taken classes in Game Design from college. But I am not a major in Game Design and others could be more experience than I.
Okay, lets break it down shall we?
I have been playing video games since I was around 9 to 10 years of age. Games I have played include:
The Original Sonic the Hedge Hog
The Original Mortal Kombat
An old Star Wars Video Game for the PC (which was where I first experienced Space Combat)
Every single Final Fantasy Game that was released on the Playstation 1, and the Playstation 2 as well as the first MMORPG Final Fantasy.
Guild Wars
Perfect World International
For a short time I played World of Warcraft
for a short time I played Jade Dynasty
for a short time I played Aion
Oh yeah and I have played The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess
And that isn't even a comprehensive list of the games I have played. I may not be a Video Game Major in college, nor have I taken Game Design Classes... but it is safe to say that I have experience with a wide variety of Video Games thank you very much.
When I say "learning curve" doesn't mean that you have to dumb down the game for people to learn to play.
It means giving the player small hints and clues in what they should do during their quest. And with any thing else that is new, to show a example of a setup and how it works and give the player chance to work with the new item a few times...
It is not the job of Cryptic Studio's or even Perfect World Entertainment to teach the player's of their games stuff that the other players of the game are more than capable of teaching people. The fact that people refuse to learn from other players, or that other players refuse to teach new players, is not the fault of Cryptic Studio's or Perfect World Entertainment.
So then are you excluding people who have played the game for 6 to 8 weeks, but who only started playing after the game went free to play? If so, then that seems a teensy bit elitist if you ask me.
Okay, lets break it down shall we?
I have been playing video games since I was around 9 to 10 years of age. Games I have played include:
The Original Sonic the Hedge Hog
The Original Mortal Kombat
An old Star Wars Video Game for the PC (which was where I first experienced Space Combat)
Every single Final Fantasy Game that was released on the Playstation 1, and the Playstation 2 as well as the first MMORPG Final Fantasy.
Guild Wars
Perfect World International
For a short time I played World of Warcraft
for a short time I played Jade Dynasty
for a short time I played Aion
Oh yeah and I have played The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess
And that isn't even a comprehensive list of the games I have played. I may not be a Video Game Major in college, nor have I taken Game Design Classes... but it is safe to say that I have experience with a wide variety of Video Games thank you very much.
It is not the job of Cryptic Studio's or even Perfect World Entertainment to teach the player's of their games stuff that the other players of the game are more than capable of teaching people. The fact that people refuse to learn from other players, or that other players refuse to teach new players, is not the fault of Cryptic Studio's or Perfect World Entertainment.
1. I think you misunderstood what I said.
2. I said; "I'm not having a contest with you" In what games we played or experience. It's pointless.
3. It's part of the job of game companies to teach the player how to play a game.
Comments
Further regardless of how long it takes to level there will still eb players who do not take the time to learn the game. You should not punish all players for the failing of a few.
Better develope the tutroials and the game guides to allow those palyers to better learn the systems. But if you just arbitrarily increase the amount of time it takes to level you, and not imporve the experience and make it more enjoyable, you will simply lose players. Bothe good players and bad.
In all the MMO's I have played (and there have been many) the ultimate responsibility to elarn the system is on the player and to a greater extent the community at large. Complaints that players do not know what they are doing is common. Howver many times this is due to other players simply refusing to take the time to educate the new players and show them the ropes, a staple of the MMO genres, instead of how fast folks level.
a 4 year old could play this game it dose not take much learning to play it at all now if this is your first mmo ever then I could see learning come in to play but really even then dose take a rocket scientists to play this game world of warcraft takes more learning then sto eveonline takes way more then wow them game are not like sto like new kirk sits in a chair points finger pew pew pew and all blow up that is sto
Hoepfully Dan's answers in the last Ask Cryptic provides some clues. It appears there will be a Tholian Invasion. Ideally that story content will deliver more STF's better fleet actions and more endgame content..
We get FAR TOO MANY skill points for doing things, and skill points for things we probably shouldn't, on the order of TEN TIMES too much, at least.
My suggestion was, and IS, that they let us freeze our level. That is, suppose I want my character to stay a Commander. I can click a button to disable skill point gains. I'd still get other rewards, like items, dilithium and BO points, but my own skill points would not increase, and so my level would not increase. Of course, I wouldn't have access to higher level ships and gear, but that's part of the point, I think.
But, they ignore all such suggestions.
A game where you don't captain a ship right away... But you join a ship acting as a duty officer, then become a bridge officer, and then become a captain. As the Captain you recruit other players to join your ship.
One of the problems of the idea is that not all players would be online on the ship.
You would have to have duties on the ship where your character has to research, work, repair, etc.
But if the ship is active and has good set of players. The high level officers would want the low level to work on the ship and do well on their job. Because the low levels could make the ship fight better in combat when they work on the ship.
Idea is good to make other players become a team on one ship and new player will have leaders and teachers to help them. The higher officer could trust these members in the crew and give them bonus away missions.
But that was a idea that would be hard to do for a game. No wonder about levels and learning would good.
Other than that, You could explore the whole ship.
I think before allowing anyone to join the PvE for very first time.
I think new players need to go to the holodeck and pass like 5 stages of training.
some of this sounds like the sto I was hopeing for like players could come on your ship take like the helm tac so also kinda like star trek bridge commander
Star Trek Bridge Commander was a great game. Always wonder what it would be like as a MMO.
I think this would have been fun, you know your gonna get the *** the drops Sheilds for the fun or it because they work on that console lol even that would be a laugh lol,
Good that some could speak many languages and work in a team. But, the ones who can't and level up from the fast leveling. I feel that they don't understand or care for their other players from another nation.
It makes us expert players upset when they pull they same stunts or we can help them finish a mission.
That why having more training would help newer free players work better with us.
A fail missions too many times is a waste of time. I don't know if newer players understand this.
What would you replace it with, though? Levelling is a tried and true system for letting people learn the game and set up their character.
If we have more skills? That will use skill points and won't need any levels.
Right now levels just limit skill points.
I started playing maybe, three, four weeks ago? I'm not entirely sure. While the 2800 missions were still special. Anyway, I finished leveling my first Fed 50 within a single week. I had no idea what I was doing at all, and hit the cap before my seventh day. Today, I've added two KDFs to that roster and am currently working on my second Fed. Since I actually have learned the game already (as in, play and win elite STFs) I enjoy that leveling is nice and quick for the new characters I make. Other games with far more classes to choose from take much longer to level and the grind is that much less fun, only now you're doing it on a tank/support class because you started on a DPS to learn game mechanics without breaking something.
That said? Leveling in STO is too fast, I agree. The entire time I've been playing, I've been playing with one to three other people I know from other games and play frequently online with. Being the most active gamer in our group, my leveling progress was even slowed since I repeatedly stop to either wait for a friend to get online or wait for them to catch up on their own and despite that, I'm already where I am with a 50 in each role. That doesn't seem like the right speed to me even though my alarmingly short attention span appreciated it.
Seeing people in STFs normal and elite alike that don't have experience or even bother to read the chat is enough reason in and of itself for me to want the leveling slope to be re-balanced a bit. (I understand it already was once, so, again please?)
It's good to see even the newest players to the game thinks leveling is too fast. It's also good that you said " I had no idea what I was doing at all, and hit the cap before my seventh day." This mean many players like your self might feel the same way. Yes, having a slope rebalanced might solve some STF problems.
It's hard for a players to mature when there is a short time to know what they are doing. I myself realize the stories of each mission and the links to the series. I also learn about leveling and skills of my Bridge officers. I learn more about changing weapon from phasers to other types because of enemies weakness.
Where now... I ask a new player "Why you use that type of weapon and gear?"
The player answered... "It looks cool because its really white and shoot a red laser."
"I don't know. Just got any thing for my level."
I hope you also agree to my point?
I have only one question for you... How are you defining the term "Veteran" in your opening post of this thread. As far as I understand it in this game, Cryptic Defines the term Veteran as anyone who is willing to subscribe to their monthly, tri-monthly, bi-annual or lifetime membership. Realistically however a Veteran should be defined as someone who has been playing the game a relativistically speaking long time, or who has experience with similar types of games and knows what they are doing.
So the question ultimately is, how is it that you are defining the term.
If you are defining it the way that Cryptic Defines it, then your entire argument is null and void, because a person who started playing yesterday can just as easily purchase a subscription to the game and thereby be considered a "veteran" as far as Cryptic is concerned.
If you are referring to it in a more realistic way, then that argument has some validity, but is further complicated by the fact that just because a person is new to this game in particular does not mean that they don't have experience with other similar games (i.e. other MMORPG's) and thus they don't have the know how on how to play in teams of people or any of the other TRIBBLE that you complained about. Simply put you are inserting your foot into your mouth by complaining about this stuff when you apparently have very little experience with anything other than this one game.
I myself for example have played approximately at least 4 different MMORPG's for a relatively decent amount of time before starting this one. About the only things I had to get used to that were considerably different from those other MMORPG's were the mechanics employing guns (easy to get used to since it wasn't all that different from spellcasting in other games), and the mechanics of space flight (a tad bit harder to get used to as it was entirely new to me)... All in all I think I have adjusted fairly well and have become a fairly good contributor to the game world. Assuming that a person must suck just because the leveling curve is so darned high is a tad insulting to that person's intelligence.
For example (all prices USD):
Ensign = $25 C-Store price
Lt. = $50 C-Store price
Lt. Cmdr = $100 C-Store price
Cmdr = $250 C-Store price
Captain = $500 C-Store price
Rear Admiral LH = $750 C-Store price
Rear Admiral UH = $1000 C-Store price
Vice Admiral = $1500 C-Store price
Just think of the money Cryptic will raise if this system is implemented. Everybody will get endless content and probably several game expansions to boot!
Players don't want to pay up? No problem, they can easily farm around 39 million refined dilithium and get it for free.
No offence but that to me seems ridiculous, having to pay for your rank! Would it be better to have everyone join a fleet and fleet leaders give the promotion, I know you can be promoted within fleets as it is but maybe then we would all have to work for our ranks. So rather than Quinn dishing out ranks the feet leaders decide between themselves who's due a promotion.
I think the leveling speed is greatly emphasized in that, when getting your new ship you don't even bother looking at new gear for it because you know you're only going to have it for a few hours worth of play time.
Add to that that in the time playing I hadn't even made enough dilithium to buy a commander rank ship by the time I was level 50 and it all just seems kinda.... hollow. I mean, what's there to do once you get to 50? Grind STF's for better gear to do what? Grind STF's faster? PVP? I have no desire to even try that without some kinda of risk and reward type system in place.(I do pvp and enjoy it in other MMO's, I come from Eve Online which is pretty much all pvp all the time)
I also think that it is absolutely TRIBBLE that you cannot start a klingon character without A) getting to 25 in fed(wtf?), and
All that said, I think it's a fun game. I think it would be more fun if we weren't rushed through the game and given more choice throughout the game as to which arcs were wanted to play without them being tied to being a certain level. It would certainly make replayability better.
I couldn't agree more.
Between the Prime and Alternate Universes Kirk has been promoted at least 4 times, possibly 5 times in a total of 15 years. Further, as far as I know most Captains don't even make it to Admiralty, for example I am 90% certain that Picard never made it to the Admiral's chair, despite having an arguably more illustrious career than Kirk. Janeway however did make it to the Admiral's Chair, though it took her 7 years and the charting of the majority of the Delta Quadrant to achieve that feat.
I think you people are over-estimating the contribution that Perfect World Entertainment (and by proxy Wanmei) have on this game. If my understanding of the relationship between Wanmei, Perfect World Entertainment, and Cryptic is correct it is sort of akin to the relationship between the European Unions Central Government, Great Britains Government, and any individual city in England's Government. Basically while the European Union controls the vast majority of the International Politics and what not, it is ultimately up to the Parliament of Great Britain to determine their national laws, and in turn it is up to the local government to decide upon local laws and enforce all the national, international and local laws. I mean you can't expect the Royal Air Force or what have you to come to a small town in England and perform Police Duties, nor can you expect the equivalent there of from the European Union to do the same job.
In essence it is ultimately Cryptic Studio's who has final say in how the game is administrated, as well as how the game is produced. Sure, Perfect World Entertainment may have the final veto on any given aspect of the game, but I doubt they are going to go out of their way to specifically say that Cryptic Studio CANNOT Slow the leveling process of Star Trek Online down, especially considering the fact that the game "Perfect World International" requires something on the order of 2,000,000,000 to 3,000,000,000 Experience Points in order to reach the highest level in that game, and that the highest amount of experience that someone can expect to get on a regular basis from a quest or monster sits somewhere around 200,000 XP (and by regular basis I mean once a day). At that rate it would take approximately 15,000 days to reach max level in that game, thats the equivalent of 41 years... (this is of course assuming that you do nothing but that one quest, in reality the rate is actually closer to 1 to 2 years to reach maximum level under ideal circumstances, 2 to 3 under less than ideal circumstances. More than that under horrible circumstances).
My point being that if you want to see what slow leveling is like, then play some of the other Perfect World Entertainment Games... heck in Jade Dynasty once you get to max level, you get shot back down to level 1 and have to start climbing the level ladder all over again (granted the second time through you have some neat bonus features you didn't have the first time, but still). So basically before you complain that Perfect World Entertainment knows nothing about what Customers want when it comes to leveling slowly and methodically, I suggest doing some research on the topic.
That has also made them quit PVP fast for the very same reason .
Now we have a lot of players who get to Level 50 very fast , and they lack experience in a multitude of things ... -- from equipment issues to not knowing how to attach an item in the Mailing system .
And these are the very same ppl who try to do STF's on Elite .
(not that there is anything wrong with trying STF's -- I was just pointing to the state of some of the playerbase)
Rushing through the levels I don't mind. It's what to do when you reach 50 that I mind. There's just not enough to do. We have, what, STFs? With very few items worth acquiring? There's no endgame.
Level 50 is a real letdown, and that has nothing to do with leveling too fast. Even if it took twice as long you're still stuck with very little to do. Leveling speed is irrelevant when there's no endgame.
Here, I reached max level in less than a month. That was back shortly after launch. Now I could do it in a week, perhaps two (and without wanting to).
I keep trying to AVOID doing missions because I don't want to level, but that means I'm not getting dilithium, which you HAVE to have to do pretty much anything in the game anymore.
The leveling is, frankly, broken.
My term for Veteran is any one who paid for the game with subscription, before it was Free to play, and least played 6 to 8 week of the game.
Also am not going to do contest with you as who played the most in MMOs. I believe, I am much older and having more experiences than just 4 MMO games, and taken classes in Game Design from college. But I am not a major in Game Design and others could be more experience than I.
When I say "learning curve" doesn't mean that you have to dumb down the game for people to learn to play.
It means giving the player small hints and clues in what they should do during their quest. And with any thing else that is new, to show a example of a setup and how it works and give the player chance to work with the new item a few times...
Well, it not a MMO. But the Mega Man series has always given the player a great learning curve. You don't even know it's there.
Yes, it could leave you confused and not have the best gear, ships, and dilithuim as other level 50s who leveled up before free to play. I could understand how you feel and new players need to tell Perfect World and Cryptic to "slow down the leveling" because I feel "rushed".
If your a new player or old player. Send a message to them. They might change it?
Yes, end game is extremely limited, but it has no relevance to leveling speed.
This is the problem in STFs. The ignorance imbued by the leveling speed is astounding. And, yes, I mean ignorance; for they are ignorant of how to do the STFs in a method that results in success. They are ignorant as to how to setup their ship loadouts and bridge officer powers. When to use and WHEN NOT TO USE those abilities. (I can't tell you how many nanite generators have been 'sploded ahead of schedule because jackwagon is indiscriminately using FAW.)
Unfortunately, most are as you indicate ... silent. Not only do they not follow guidance, they blatantly ignore it thinking they know better.
Yes, the answer IS to slow the leveling process. They have introduced a system that ADDs to the the speed ... Duty Officers. Yet, they did nothing to compensate for the "free" xp. Leveling speed was arbitrarily increase.
You cannot honestly believe that someone can develop the skill necessary to handle: 20+abilities, maneuvering, threat recognition, applied powers, timing, etc. in a couple of weeks. Not a chance in perdition's flame. Slowing the progression will give even casual players the time to hone these skills.
There are MANY of us veterans (daily gamers since launch and beta) who try to take the time to provide instruction and guidance. Hell, we write GUIDES to assist. Many players simply refuse to take the time to realize that they lack the experience (true experience) and think they are just another Kirk in Spaceland.
I've played MMOs where it took YEARS to reach level cap. There were no tutorials in those games beyond what is provided here.
Yes, there will always be power levelers, but they are not the problem. The power leveler is a small fraction of any playerbase. The problem is the casual player being wisked through to VA.
re:Ships, Exactly, why bother to learn when it's just going to be cast aside in a few hours. Sure LT sucks and the Centaur/Miranda is ungodly slow, but that level can be left quick. As a player progresses the speed of that progression needs to be curbed ... a lot.
Extending the leveling won't make playing Alts bad. Unless the only alts you roll are the same class, you have 2 additional opportunities to learn the game from a different angle. If you play both factions you can enjoy it 6 times. That kind of thinking is what leads to people thinking that a DPS Engineer can bot heal fantastic and fight fantastic at the same time. (Yes, I know, but Era is an exception to the casual rule.)
I was more thinking about "whats next mission?", "Where to put these skill points?, and "Cool the voice of Spock!.
When you got promote to the next rank.... You was mostly ok about your ships and didn't hate it too death.
I been playing with some friends lately again. At Lieutenant rank... No one said that "their ship sucks".
They were all about the next mission.
Some how I think a few players who wasn't the normal group of players just ***** about every thing. They happened to been heard by some one who could change the game...
Now I think it's the many who is saying leveling is too fast and no one is listening to us who could do something.
I just hope some hears us now and slower do the leveling that is ok for every one. Ok leveling is better than crazy insane leveling.
So then are you excluding people who have played the game for 6 to 8 weeks, but who only started playing after the game went free to play? If so, then that seems a teensy bit elitist if you ask me.
Okay, lets break it down shall we?
I have been playing video games since I was around 9 to 10 years of age. Games I have played include:
And that isn't even a comprehensive list of the games I have played. I may not be a Video Game Major in college, nor have I taken Game Design Classes... but it is safe to say that I have experience with a wide variety of Video Games thank you very much.
It is not the job of Cryptic Studio's or even Perfect World Entertainment to teach the player's of their games stuff that the other players of the game are more than capable of teaching people. The fact that people refuse to learn from other players, or that other players refuse to teach new players, is not the fault of Cryptic Studio's or Perfect World Entertainment.
1. I think you misunderstood what I said.
2. I said; "I'm not having a contest with you" In what games we played or experience. It's pointless.
3. It's part of the job of game companies to teach the player how to play a game.
This Star Trek world is not part of that world. Clearly you haven't the read history of the game.