test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Bortas, brief and to the point.
System
Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
It only took two PvP matches to convince me that this ship/ configuration does not suit my game style.
For me it was a complete and utter let down. Even before the ship was Cryptified, I was already somewhat ambivalent. After the direction Cryptic decided to go, I was convinced.
Tried it. Tossed it. If this is how you entice your c-store customers, then there is nothing more to say really. I won't be buying it. I don't care if it is the next best thing - this experience has soured my exprience of STO, and especially in my interpretation of some of the developers attitude of "it is so because we say so". I got better performace from my carrier or Negh'Var in all respects.
In my reality games are supposed to be fun. Whats fun about nearly every single ship chaining RSP, Eject Warp Core and endless circles of FAW ... yawn.
Well done on raising the dead in PvP. Zombie Cruisers Online - all this may do is further alienated some of the community towards certain aspects of the game. Not going to mention what, because that would just cause another pointless debate of the "thems" vs. "us".
For me it was a complete and utter let down. Even before the ship was Cryptified, I was already somewhat ambivalent. After the direction Cryptic decided to go, I was convinced.
Tried it. Tossed it. If this is how you entice your c-store customers, then there is nothing more to say really. I won't be buying it. I don't care if it is the next best thing - this experience has soured my exprience of STO, and especially in my interpretation of some of the developers attitude of "it is so because we say so". I got better performace from my carrier or Negh'Var in all respects.
In my reality games are supposed to be fun. Whats fun about nearly every single ship chaining RSP, Eject Warp Core and endless circles of FAW ... yawn.
Well done on raising the dead in PvP. Zombie Cruisers Online - all this may do is further alienated some of the community towards certain aspects of the game. Not going to mention what, because that would just cause another pointless debate of the "thems" vs. "us".
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
It's funny when I fought the Bortas in the Odyssey on all 3 Federation characters, it was cake. But when I fought the Odyssey on my Bortas, it was a major piece of............ well you get the idea.
With my KDF Cruiser Captain, I'm sticking to the Negh'var. It's far superior.
Since I'm currently very low on time for anything amusing I have yet to try the Fed mission but one of my first encounters with the Odyssey went like this:
15 seconds into the fight, Odyssey turns towards me
Odyssey makes 13k phaser crit to forward shield
Odyssey makes 53k tricobalt crit to hull
BOOM!
I honestly wonder if it's the ship or if it's just that they misdesigned the mission annoying us to no end.
I've been thinking about the BortaS' purpose the last few days and maybe someone can confirm or point his index finger and laugh at my theory:
In the latter stages of WW2 battleships were used to provide escort to carriers.
To me it seems the purpose of the Klingon flagship is actually to operate in tandem with a carrier.
The BortaS has a rather limited turnrate which makes Beam Arrays an interesting prospect to use and she tanks and maneuvers similar to a carrier.
The carrier has a whole lot of support capabilities and relies on its pets for concentrated firepower while its own allround firepower is limited.
BortaS with 6-8 beams/torps/mines can supplement the carrier's limited close-range firepower with its own additional weapons and can benefit from the support of the carrier and if necessary the carrier pets can provide additional concentrated firepower against enemy units.
Has anyone tried to use the two ships in tandem yet?
The carrier as a support/concentrated firepower base with the BortaS as its "keep away from the carrier or I'll fry your ship" escort?
Heh, I heard of others had that happen to them. Seems like they purposely overpowered the Odyssey on purpose on the Bortas Mission.
Interesting thought. In concept I think it would be feasable as part of a strong support team. But unless its supporting the Bortas while it's using the LTC for Tactical, you're better off with a Vor'cha or Negh'var.
Glad I wasn't the only one...
So, in the Fed Mission, the Odyssey quickly takes care of the Bortas.. in the KDF mission, the Odyssey quickly takes care of the Bortas... It seems like it's working to me...
On a serious note though, it all depends on the level of character. My low level KDF characters had zero issue with the Odyssey, while my LGs had a much rougher time.
The Bortas has 2500 crew vs the 1000 of the Odyssey
The Bortas not only has beams and torpedoes, but unlike the Odyssey it can also mount cannons.
The Bortas has cloak, the Odyssey don't.
The Bortas has 4 tactical consoles, the Odyssey has 2, though it does have more science consoles.
Now, combine the posibilites. Using the Lt. Cmdr universal on the Bortas for a tactical officer grant you 5 Engineer abilities, 5 tactical abilities and 2 science abilities. While the Odyssey has similar bridge crew setups it cannot combine this with cannons and cloaking. Though who is crazy enough to put cannons on the Bortas? I am!
To counter the slow turn rate my science officer use tractor beam and tractor beam repulsors. I also got the Magnetometric Generator from the C-Store (This is placed in the single science console station). Another push. I also use a single RFC console, though I normally would never put this on a cruiser. The tactical consentrates on torpedoes and cannons, including rapid fire. The five engineer abilities consentrate on the tanking aspect of the cruiser, though this is in effect not a tanking cruiser anymore. It is a pve cruiser that mauls borg and undine alike.
Not sure I would have taken the cannon build into pvp. While I can easily keep a pve npc ship in front of me, a player is smarter and would counter with abilities of his own.
But I like the Bortas.
Cannons = reduced rate of fire = pointless on a ship of this class.
The marginal hull str. incr. means nothing in terms of all the sacrifices. Nothing.
1 science console = hamstrung
-5 power to something ...
So tell me really what does this ship really have going for it???
Did you notice the test Borti had both U-slots? Quite possibly what we have is the basic model and the Cstore will be the un-altered version we remember from Tribble and the first Stats posting.
If that is the case then I look forward to the +1 being released.
I still found the free model quite nice for a cruiser and even capable when flown with my Tactical captain using the LTC slot for tac in the quick PvP in took part in.
It is tanky and slow but not a bad vessel, though it is a battle Cruiser and will be best suited to Engineers.
This though has always been the case of any cruiser used in STO and is so common place as to be expected much like Science ships using GW+TB+SNB to snare-kill escorts.
Granted Fans of Raptors and BoPs will not enjoy the BortaS as much as the fast moving lifestyle the former offer, so hoepfully we will get a T5 refit on both eventually, but I do not find the BortaS (base model) to be a bad vessel and look forward to the +1.
Its a cruiser with a universal console. At lt cmdr no less. Its a cruiser with 4 tactical consoles. It has +15 Power to Weapons, +5 Power to Engines. It doesn't have -5 to anything so scratch that. No negative value.
So you don't like the ship? I do. And I do not complain when I recieve gifts. For this ship is a gift. You get it for almost no effort. And if you don't like it, ok, at least you didn't pay for it. If you do like it, you get something you liked for free!
This ship has lots of stuff going for it.
Yeah, the universal BOff station is nice, but not nicer than my Vor'Cha. The hull is nice, but I found that once you get that point, it is only going get a couple more seconds than a Negh'Var.
I think I am taking in Engineer back. I want (need?) more maneuverabilty and turning than what this ship is offering.
The cloak is only 80% effective (something I do dislike but can live with if it worked right)
The rest is true though and I do find the ship capable.
The Odysses vessel in the shakedown mission died so fast as to defy belief.
Yes. I didn't like flying either ship. They just didn't work very well at all. But the Bortas felt like I could harness it better for pretty much everything except a few weak science powers.
Neither ship will crack my roster to fly. But I found in shakedown mode the Bortas to have the edge.
I only tried the odyssey as a beam/torpedo boat. It felt a lot more nimble and far easier to duck in and out of arc for torpedo fire.
And that's using two builds heavily slanted towards aoe firepower for stf's. I also didn't spend a lot of time fine tuning the other Bridge powers. I did not pvp at all yesterday.
Overall I'd say that if you were happy flying a cruiser for your faction you would be happy with one of these.
They are free ships and regardless of any possible future c-store edition these two free versions are certainly viable for pve gaming.
But after reading this thread I'm going to hop back in game and rename my Bortas "Gyfft' oarse"
cheers!
5-7 km? No... try like 15-20km. The cloak is all but useless... that's a fact.
As to the ship itself, I like it except for the extremely low DPS. But I think that's more my setup than the ship itself (since I had similar dps on the Negh'var). Overall, I love the Bortas.
Either way... it's a free ship. Quit complaining people.
No effortI I've paid a subscription for two years and supported the game for two years, purchasing nearly the whole c-store, across multiple toons. I've promote this franchise. There's your effort.
Secondly, before you shut someone down and disagree as usual - check your facts.
I don't care what you do with gifts - if someone gives me rotten apples as a gift, I don't eat them.
Hopefully the +1 will have the two U-slots, freeing up 5 BOff positions for tactical and the remaining 7 for defense. You can make a decent 6/6 build but it will still crumble under focus fire from multiple attackers eventually.
In a 10vs10 PvP last night made of Great, good and possibly poor players I was able to go 38 kills / 4 deaths in a 50kill count arena. I'm no expert and may very well suck in the BortaS in a more pro level match, but that doesn;t seem too bad for the slow gunboat that it is.
The cloak is useless though and the missing +5 engines power was an unneeded nerf. The sideways nerf of the FE & SEA has made this vessel far weaker of a tanking gunboat than the Odysses, but it is still fun to play around in.
As Amidoingright points out though, I would not use it in a seriuos PvP match.
If there is anyone in the community that can honestly answer this question with a "No" then I will apologise, "Did Cryptic reduce the effectiveness of the Bortas?"
Ya, I really think the cloak is broken. I've been detected out to 20km with FULL aux.
Hell, a Oddy passed within 15Km of me and targeted me, and he was 15 seconds into full impulse.
Broken cloak is broken. I think the Bortas needs a longer shakedown cruise...
Yes, they reduced it s effectiness.
I have stated I dislike its cloak nerf, the loss of the ensign U-slot and the loss of that +5 to engines.
The FE & SEA console change screwed everybody with limited science consoles equally.
Overall though in PvE and very light PvP the BortaS is a fun vessel to play and for a free vessel its what I expect to see.
The +1 version that is going to cost me money to purchase is anotehr thing all together. I expect that vessel (since it has a price tag) to have that ensign U-slot, a 100% working cloak and the +5 engine put back in place. I have no idea how they can overcome the console nerf unless they change it to a;
4 tactical
3 engineering
2 science
console set-up.
Am I completely happy- no
Am I pleased we did seem to suffer more nerfs than the feds*, both by intention or indirectly - no
Am i surpised - hell no
Over all I still find the BortaS fun to play in PvE for a free vessel for its nerfing and I actually do not expect it to change.
* They lost a ensign U-slot and suffered less by console design under the FE & SEA change but gained a decent out of combat ability.
Or to use a famous quote, for a free vessel - We got what we paid for.
Besides where you really surprised that the fed whines got us nerfed?
Sounds reasonable enough. I admit that I am being sightly over zealous. My passion for the game is transparent.
Keep that passion, keep it going strong.
But remember we where never slated to even get a flagship for the KDF, that fact and that fact alone has tempered my anger over its nerfing since it was a gesture freely given us as fans.
and of course once I have to pay for the deluxe model, I expect all those nerfs to be reversed. If not then you will see me flame the forums with my displeasure ( not that it makes bit of difference in the face of fedwhine )
I fear all I have done is further alienate myself from the crowd... Gosh it gets lonely in an MMO being disliked so much.
It's probably only useful in a specific fleet environment where you can coordinate properly how to do it.
In such a situation, where the carrier supports the BortaS while the BortaS covers the carrier with its hull, an LtC TAC and
-Beam Arrays with FAW and possibly
- a dispersal pattern with nasty mines against anyone foolish enough to get close and/or behind either the carrier or BortaS
I could imagine that would be a niche for this ship otherwise I agree: for PUGS anything this specific is probably a pointless exercise.
I personally hold no dislike for you. Why would I?
Don't hang your head. Keep it up proud and eyes on teh enemy.
You are Klingon, we've been doing better with less for 2 years running.
The Stats we where origianally shown and had gotten used to in the brief time before the sudden changes where great and well balanced, imo, and exemplified Klingon design philosphy.
I miss them too. Hopefully they will be on the +1.
It may not even by the fault of the Devs that we got nerfed.
For all we know some higher up muckity muck at CBS is approving and pushing the KDF disparity to feed the hero complex of the fed fans in hopes that they will continue to play STO, safe in thier knowledge that they are the more powerful faction and the center of the STO universe.
I'll just finish with this, the BortaS is fun to play in PvE and will never be a true PvP boat due to its need for a tac in the LTC slot in order to be a effective gunboat, otherwise while tanky as grethor it brings no DPS to the match and is just a thick brick waiting to be eventually crushed.
The Support ideas for it though do sound intersting, as a carrier escort vessel.
Especially with tac consoles to maximise damage.
And this is flying her as a Tactical, hehe.
Gives me almost as much firepower as a raptor, but much less squishy.
I had no issuse with any of the missions to obtain the ships, other than the couple minutes at the start of each to assign officers, sort out the abilities and such on the hotbars, but once that was done I breezed thru mission.
Same for the Odessy version.
I find the Bortas to be a solid tank. I'm kinda surprised anyone would run a bunch of cannons on it with it's sluggish turn rate, but, hey, it's freedom of choice. I went with a beam boat with a couple of torps.
And I really like the overall look of the ship.
2 of my 5 KDF Lt Gen will fly it for an extended period.
As far as it's abilities being nerfed at the 11th hour...
IMOHPO...it was one of the most boneheaded thing I've seen Cryptic do, second only to the change to the 2 Eng consoles becoming Sci consoles "to add more value to sci slots".
Might as well not have a cloak at all. Who the heck cloaks in PvE anyway? In PvP a 80% effective is simply ridiculous.
Wait...their offices are in California, land of "Medical"..um..herbology....hmm...maybe their train of thought can be explained after all...:p
I think I'm getting a mental picture of their brainstroming sessions...:D
Hey man I'm upset by tha.......... uh what?
Seriuosly though, I doubt it was a factor during work hours.