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Ever fixing the Raptor turn Axis?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
This was brought up awhile ago and I thought it was something that Cryptic was looking to fix. As we all know probably the biggest problem with the Raptor is that its turn axis is at the rear of the ship instead of the middle. As far as I know it is the only ship in the game that suffers from this miserable handicap. Sure would be nice to hear some kind of update as to what, if anything, is being done. Thanks!
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Does make it rather a pain in combat and dog fighting. Doesn't it?
Oh, I fully agree about that. I loved how my Qin looked, but couldn't stand the pivot point so far back. It felt like flying a dragster among sports cars.
well, duh... It *is* the KDF forum... I don't even know what *I* was doing here to begin with...
It would be bad in a dogfight if it packed more punch to make up for its inability to actually dogfight.
Where we expected a Warthog for ariel high-turning dogfighting combat we got a SR71 Blackbird instead. Both excellent planes just not suited to the same purpose.
People tried that before.
Stuff just gets moved to the KD forums without any comment.
When we ask why the answer is usually that it only concerns a specific part of the playerbase.
That's also why stuff that only affects the Federation side is okay to post in the general threads while ours gets moved...
18% bias?????
if STO had yaw/Pitch it wouldn't be so bad as one could roll through tight turns.....
I dont know about that though Roach tbh. Even on a KDF Cruiser which is fairly elongated the axis point seems to be more in the center of the ship dont you think?
where the pivot point is does make sense in a way, on klingon ships their impulse engines are on the very back of the ship, were their pivot point is. federation ships have their impulse engines in their middle, and as a result have their pivot point there.
id call that working as intended if it didn't create such a dog fighting disadvantage to the raptor. maybe if their base turn rate was buffed a point or 2 and they got a bonus to reverse speed? that could make up for their disadvantage, without turning them into fed ship clones.
Eh, I don't know. It's not consistent with any of the other ships. they all seem to have their pivot points much closer to center. The Vor'cha doesn't seem to have a pivot point way back that I've noticed. All the ships should be relatively similar and have their pivot points between the 1/2 and 3/5 point I'd say.
The variance of the ships should be their turn *rate*, not their turn *point*.
In addition would this mot mean the Defiant should turn like a Raptor too?
Her impulse engines are also at the rear, even more so than the Raptor's.
Ebsence of evidence is no evidence of absence.
I'm not sure whether thrusters on Klingon ships are actually visible on any ship model yet episoes like "Soldiers of the Empire" clearly state they exist.
Worf: "Bow thrusters ahead one half."
Impulse engines are usually vectorised that is not something unique to the Raptors.
The TNG Technical Manual for example states that in seperated mode, since the center of mass of the stardirve section is in a different location, the impulse engine is directed a few degrees off the axis it's normally directed.
We also know from "Relics" what an impulse engine can be reversed (however that is supposed to work) and last not least, this is what the Defiant's impulse engine looks like inside:
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/firstcontacthd/firstcontacthd0214.jpg
that's also a vectorised engine.
In addition, physics are clear: center of mass is center of mass, no matter where you put the engine.
i wasn't advocating for the way it is now, i was just trying to come up with an explanation for it. actually fixing the pivot point would proboly require a decompile of the ship model(s) and lots of details like hard points may need to be rebuilt. not sure, been quite a wile since i dealt with importing game models and working on them. i just don't see it ever getting fixed if its that much work, that's why i put out ideas for bandaids.
its center of mass is proboly in the most rear third of the ship, so if its maneuvering at speed it seems to me like it should handle more like a rear wheal drive car that's prone to oversteer, kind of like the vorcha maneuvers. at least then its nose, and cannons, would be easier to point.
They did they called it the Jem'Hadar Escort. :P
Actually every ship has this hence why ships turn better in reverse than forward. KDF ships are more of a triangular geometry where as Fed ships are more circular or ovoid.
I actually think the math used to calculate turn rates is like "Fuzzy" math. I do not know if its the specific code cryptic uses but all ships should have the same axis with the turn rate measured at the farthest point from the turn axis. The raptor turns somewhere between a FE and a Vorcha and is useless against defiants and MVAM in a dog fight.
No, the Qin raptor turns like *no other ship* that I've tried. I can't even fly it because it's so annoying to watch it turn. Every other ship in the game feels like a 'water craft' of some kind - whether a battleship, cruiser, or even PT boat (the BoPs). Real ships have a rudder at the rear of the ship, yet their 'pivot points' are usually near midships. The Qin (especially) feels like a rear engine dragster because I'd imagine they turn exactly the same way just from their looks (the front wheels are way at the front and the rear wheels, which would be their pivot point, are at the extreme rear).
Logan did mention he was going to adjust things, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm thinking it was a low priority fix that got forgotten with all the new C-store ships he was working on. It needs to be fixed though, because the ship is terrible currently (even though I love how it looks otherwise).
Sorry, doesn't wash. If that were the case, it'd have a low turn radius like carriers and cruisers.
Until Logan says the pivot point is where it's supposed to be, I'm still considering it a bug he was going to look at as he said.
I agree but you have to the best you can with a bad turning ship. On a side note the raptor really isn't an escort I think it was meant to be more of a frigate. Take more pounding and dish out a pounding. It was cool the raptor turned like TRIBBLE when the KDF had the BoP that could turn better than all ships but MVAM disrupted that advantage.
As far as I'm aware, STO does not derive turn rate from things like center of mass and power, etc. it is simply a given statistic like shield strength. It can be modified by things like consoles and engine speed, but geometry is not one of them.
This means it doesn't actually take longer for a raptor to turn than a fed escort. They have the same turn rate, therefore they cover the same angular distance in the same time period. It doesn't matter how long the clock's minute hand is, it still takes an hour to turn completely around.
Now with that said, it definitely is more awkward to fly a raptor because of the pivot point, but I have never noticed any actual disadvantage.