"The Quad Disruptor Cannons scale in effectiveness with your Rank and Grade and may be equipped on any ship that can equip cannons."
Yep.
And what's more, unless there are changes, the quad cannons are not going to be much of a game changer at endgame in any case. Evidently they only scale up to Mk X, and do less damage than Mk XI purples, and on top of that you can only mount one per ship, if I understand it all correctly.
So...unless there are changes, they are a non-issue -- a Vorcha with a LtC Tac slot mounting a quad cannon in it will actually do less damage than if it was mounting purple mk XI cannons instead.
However, the quad cannon issue does not invalidate the core issue -- which is to provide the KDF with a battlecruiser that has a LTC Tac slot.
I never understood why they used the UFP heavy Engineer then tactical design aproach to KDF cruisers without going the logical heavy TActical aproach first for us, the non-peace keeping armada.
Granted the feds only currently have one Cruiser with a LTC tac slot, the KDF has no Battle Cruisers but two Carriers that posses it. Hardly an balance of power or a fair representation of the Conquest minded faction.
I never understood why they used the UFP heavy Engineer then tactical design aproach to KDF cruisers without going the logical heavy TActical aproach first for us, the non-peace keeping armada.
Granted the feds only currently have one Cruiser with a LTC tac slot, the KDF has no Battle Cruisers but two Carriers that posses it. Hardly an balance of power or a fair representation of the Conquest minded faction.
Good concept, maybe experienced Klingon tactical officers are harder to come by (learn by doing, not by training), and the good Lt. Commanders instead of wording tactical positions get commander of thier own ships??? I always viewed Klingons as a quantity and aggresion over quality and superior engineering sort.
and the good Lt. Commanders instead of wording tactical positions get commander of thier own ships???
Why?
We know Klingons not only advance by killing their superior (and then only when that superior was incompetent) so how could someone who's a good 'tac end up in the Captain's chair by default?
And let's not forget that just because he/she is a good 'tac doesn't mean he/she is a good knife fighter.;)
I always viewed Klingons as a quantity and aggresion over quality and superior engineering sort.
Not sure what gave you that impression besides the "uphill" comparison Klingons always face because people always end up measuring non-main characters (some random KDF dude) against the always winning and sometimes infallible main chars (usually Starfleet).
When you compare them against characters of their own category (the proverbial redshirts for example) they're actually a pretty smart bunch that can do the usual engineering miracle once in a while.:)
Good concept, maybe experienced Klingon tactical officers are harder to come by (learn by doing, not by training), and the good Lt. Commanders instead of wording tactical positions get commander of thier own ships??? I always viewed Klingons as a quantity and aggresion over quality and superior engineering sort.
I just currently feel our quantity of agression is curtailed in reference to our conquest minded nature and there for reflected poorly in our Battle cruisers tactical BOff lay-outs.
Some LTC tactical BOff layouts Variants would help alieviate this delimna as far as the Battle Cruisers are concerned.
KDF advancement is not (normally) the same as a FED officer. In fact if one plays the Klingon Academy, you quickly learn that the academy students are the top of thier classes being trained for officer school.
So this lend creedence that one can become a Captain via the Academy or via siezing command from a incompetant officer.
As tac flying a Vor'cha i have to say, a better tac boff layout would be nice, but then the loss in eng boff slots will hurt more.
I would suggest something different, change the level of beam and cannon skills.
Captain skills:
FED: tier 2 beams, torpedoes, tier 3 cannons
KDF: tier 2 cannons, torpedoes, tier 3 beams
Basically given each faction their preferred, signature weapon type, beams for feds, cannons for kdf at the same tier, the lowest, and the opposing factions preferred weapons at the next higher tier. Torpedo on the higher tier as well, since with spread, high yield its a most formidable weapon.
We've also seen them do some pretty realistic combat drills in DS9:"Soldiers of the Empire" so they don't just train via life target practice.
Why?
We know Klingons not only advance by killing their superior (and then only when that superior was incompetent) so how could someone who's a good 'tac end up in the Captain's chair by default?
And let's not forget that just because he/she is a good 'tac doesn't mean he/she is a good knife fighter.;)
Not sure what gave you that impression besides the "uphill" comparison Klingons always face because people always end up measuring non-main characters (some random KDF dude) against the always winning and sometimes infallible main chars (usually Starfleet).
When you compare them against characters of their own category (the proverbial redshirts for example) they're actually a pretty smart bunch that can do the usual engineering miracle once in a while.:)
I never said Klingons were stupid, just different. I was hypothesizing why theres no mid level Klingon slots on cruisers. Klingons do have a spirit of "doing", and tend to not be satisfied by being second or third fiddle, they are motivated to rise above the ashes of thier competitors, even in careers.
They want the captains chair even more than the Fed's, another good reason to why there are so many B.O.P.'s. They have a better chance to show thier own skills in battle. This is why the Klingons have carriers in this game, they are more willing to risk thier life for glory and honor than a Fed' would. Thats why Most Fed's ride around in cruisers. I seriously doubt that Klingons would have a 401k or am IRA account.
Negh'var, and later refit Vor'cha, has always been enough for me. Feds have always wanted what we have, shouldn't be the other way around. Never had a lot of trouble making space dust out of Excelsiors... That extra tactical power can't be all it's cracked up to be.
And what's more, unless there are changes, the quad cannons are not going to be much of a game changer at endgame in any case. Evidently they only scale up to Mk X, and do less damage than Mk XI purples, and on top of that you can only mount one per ship, if I understand it all correctly.
So...unless there are changes, they are a non-issue -- a Vorcha with a LtC Tac slot mounting a quad cannon in it will actually do less damage than if it was mounting purple mk XI cannons instead.
However, the quad cannon issue does not invalidate the core issue -- which is to provide the KDF with a battlecruiser that has a LTC Tac slot.
I would still suggest that the KDF cruisers turn rate advantage and ability to mount Dual and Heavy Cannons are a real asset for the KDF. Excelsiors are limited to beams and single cannons and the Gal-X doesnt really turn well enough to take advantage of Dual and Heavy Cannons it can mount (its kind of like mounting a GAU-30 on the front of a school bus).
Eh, a lot of the KDF side where people say that KDF side is too OP or that its under powered comes from players who use strategies. With federation ships there is no real big strategy involved. However with KDF only missions, sorties for the most part require tactics and not just some pew pew and your done. As well as piloting and using skills like inertial dampeners that work best with KDF ships where as the KDF has no advantage with turn rates on our Battle Cruisers its the inertia properties that have the advantage. The cannons are an advantage but most of the time people who play the federation mostly do not know this or they listen to trolls that say cannons are worthless LOL.
Eh, a lot of the KDF side where people say that KDF side is too OP or that its under powered comes from players who use strategies. With federation ships there is no real big strategy involved. However with KDF only missions, sorties for the most part require tactics and not just some pew pew and your done. As well as piloting and using skills like inertial dampeners that work best with KDF ships where as the KDF has no advantage with turn rates on our Battle Cruisers its the inertia properties that have the advantage. The cannons are an advantage but most of the time people who play the federation mostly do not know this or they listen to trolls that say cannons are worthless LOL.
Cannons (especially DHC and duals) are most certainly not worthless, the problem lies in preferences and skill. My Excelsior has a good enough turn rate to fight enemies from its nose, so tight arced weapons dont bug me much. Singles still require using torps to finish the job. However, in a group one cruiser with alll singles in the front and turrets in the back can be an awesome fire support cruiser if the group he/she is working with have the torps to follow the shield stripping cannon weapons can do.:D
Take the LTC Tac slot OFF of the Excelsior and replacing it with maybe a LTC Sci slot? That LTC Tac slot does not belong there...it makes the ship OP in its class, and it is a contradiction for the "peace-loving" Federation! But , maybe giving it a Sci slot is more in line with what the Federation is all about, right?
Yep. Thought so. Way too many people enjoy the advantages that the current Excelsior bridge officer layout provides. Besides, Cryptic is unlikely to change it now - it is already "spilled milk." I guess adding a LTC Tac to a KDF vessel...which makes logical sense given the nature of the KDF fleet, the Klingon culture of conflict, and the purpose of the KDF fleet, sort of makes sense, eh?
Well, that's an idea. Here's another one. How about we remove the Voqov from the game completely, then we use it's stats and officer layout to make the "Typhon Class" mobile outpost and carrier ship as inspired by the soft canon Star Trek Invasion video game. I mean, there it is in soft canon, a Federation Carrier, but no mention of a Klingon carrier even in soft canon. Right? Right?
Nah, too many people enjoy all carriers being limited to the KDF. You see, what makes sense thematically doesn't apply to this discussion. It's about faction balance plain and simple. If you think the game is stronger for having some significant ship choices limited to the Klingon side of the game, than to be fair, you must accept some significant ship choices will be limited to the Federation side of the game. There's just the one cake, don't get mad when someone points out that you won't have it anymore while you're talking about eating it.
Wasn't the Excelsior originally planned to have a LTC Science power instead of Tactical when originally tested on Tribble? But it was deemed too powerful?
Wasn't the Excelsior originally planned to have a LTC Science power instead of Tactical when originally tested on Tribble? But it was deemed too powerful?
I believe so and then the players asked for a LTC tac instead and others still found it OP.
From further looking at STO archives, it appears that OP belief (LTC tac) was later debunked as being untrue.
Who can say?
I do think that if given the LTC SCienace BOff slot and ending up with this configuration;
It would make an excellent Zombie cruiser for Pve and PvP. Thats a lot of healing and defense
IMO it would cuase a whole new Sstorm of issues and complaints as nothing would ever kill it and it would only kill through attrition.
Comments
Yep.
And what's more, unless there are changes, the quad cannons are not going to be much of a game changer at endgame in any case. Evidently they only scale up to Mk X, and do less damage than Mk XI purples, and on top of that you can only mount one per ship, if I understand it all correctly.
So...unless there are changes, they are a non-issue -- a Vorcha with a LtC Tac slot mounting a quad cannon in it will actually do less damage than if it was mounting purple mk XI cannons instead.
However, the quad cannon issue does not invalidate the core issue -- which is to provide the KDF with a battlecruiser that has a LTC Tac slot.
Granted the feds only currently have one Cruiser with a LTC tac slot, the KDF has no Battle Cruisers but two Carriers that posses it. Hardly an balance of power or a fair representation of the Conquest minded faction.
Good concept, maybe experienced Klingon tactical officers are harder to come by (learn by doing, not by training), and the good Lt. Commanders instead of wording tactical positions get commander of thier own ships??? I always viewed Klingons as a quantity and aggresion over quality and superior engineering sort.
Then what's the academy there for?
We've also seen them do some pretty realistic combat drills in DS9:"Soldiers of the Empire" so they don't just train via life target practice.
Why?
We know Klingons not only advance by killing their superior (and then only when that superior was incompetent) so how could someone who's a good 'tac end up in the Captain's chair by default?
And let's not forget that just because he/she is a good 'tac doesn't mean he/she is a good knife fighter.;)
Not sure what gave you that impression besides the "uphill" comparison Klingons always face because people always end up measuring non-main characters (some random KDF dude) against the always winning and sometimes infallible main chars (usually Starfleet).
When you compare them against characters of their own category (the proverbial redshirts for example) they're actually a pretty smart bunch that can do the usual engineering miracle once in a while.:)
I just currently feel our quantity of agression is curtailed in reference to our conquest minded nature and there for reflected poorly in our Battle cruisers tactical BOff lay-outs.
Some LTC tactical BOff layouts Variants would help alieviate this delimna as far as the Battle Cruisers are concerned.
KDF advancement is not (normally) the same as a FED officer. In fact if one plays the Klingon Academy, you quickly learn that the academy students are the top of thier classes being trained for officer school.
So this lend creedence that one can become a Captain via the Academy or via siezing command from a incompetant officer.
I would suggest something different, change the level of beam and cannon skills.
Captain skills:
FED: tier 2 beams, torpedoes, tier 3 cannons
KDF: tier 2 cannons, torpedoes, tier 3 beams
Boff skills:
FED: ensign: beams, LT torpedoes, cannons
KDF: ensign cannon, LT, beams, torpedoes
Basically given each faction their preferred, signature weapon type, beams for feds, cannons for kdf at the same tier, the lowest, and the opposing factions preferred weapons at the next higher tier. Torpedo on the higher tier as well, since with spread, high yield its a most formidable weapon.
I never said Klingons were stupid, just different. I was hypothesizing why theres no mid level Klingon slots on cruisers. Klingons do have a spirit of "doing", and tend to not be satisfied by being second or third fiddle, they are motivated to rise above the ashes of thier competitors, even in careers.
They want the captains chair even more than the Fed's, another good reason to why there are so many B.O.P.'s. They have a better chance to show thier own skills in battle. This is why the Klingons have carriers in this game, they are more willing to risk thier life for glory and honor than a Fed' would. Thats why Most Fed's ride around in cruisers. I seriously doubt that Klingons would have a 401k or am IRA account.
See this:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=239353
IMO, perfect opportuny for a battlecruiser with a LTC tac slot. Make a huge K'vort.
Eh, a lot of the KDF side where people say that KDF side is too OP or that its under powered comes from players who use strategies. With federation ships there is no real big strategy involved. However with KDF only missions, sorties for the most part require tactics and not just some pew pew and your done. As well as piloting and using skills like inertial dampeners that work best with KDF ships where as the KDF has no advantage with turn rates on our Battle Cruisers its the inertia properties that have the advantage. The cannons are an advantage but most of the time people who play the federation mostly do not know this or they listen to trolls that say cannons are worthless LOL.
Cannons (especially DHC and duals) are most certainly not worthless, the problem lies in preferences and skill. My Excelsior has a good enough turn rate to fight enemies from its nose, so tight arced weapons dont bug me much. Singles still require using torps to finish the job. However, in a group one cruiser with alll singles in the front and turrets in the back can be an awesome fire support cruiser if the group he/she is working with have the torps to follow the shield stripping cannon weapons can do.:D
Well, that's an idea. Here's another one. How about we remove the Voqov from the game completely, then we use it's stats and officer layout to make the "Typhon Class" mobile outpost and carrier ship as inspired by the soft canon Star Trek Invasion video game. I mean, there it is in soft canon, a Federation Carrier, but no mention of a Klingon carrier even in soft canon. Right? Right?
Nah, too many people enjoy all carriers being limited to the KDF. You see, what makes sense thematically doesn't apply to this discussion. It's about faction balance plain and simple. If you think the game is stronger for having some significant ship choices limited to the Klingon side of the game, than to be fair, you must accept some significant ship choices will be limited to the Federation side of the game. There's just the one cake, don't get mad when someone points out that you won't have it anymore while you're talking about eating it.
I believe so and then the players asked for a LTC tac instead and others still found it OP.
From further looking at STO archives, it appears that OP belief (LTC tac) was later debunked as being untrue.
Who can say?
I do think that if given the LTC SCienace BOff slot and ending up with this configuration;
Ensign: Engineer
LT: Engineer
Commander: Engineer
LTC: Science
LT: Tactical
It would make an excellent Zombie cruiser for Pve and PvP. Thats a lot of healing and defense
IMO it would cuase a whole new Sstorm of issues and complaints as nothing would ever kill it and it would only kill through attrition.
Its fine and very deadly the way it is.
you mean like the need for teamwork?;)