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Klingon BATTLE Cruisers
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Klingon Battle Cruisers.
Klingon BATTLE Cruisers.
None of which have a LtC BATTLE bridge officer slot.
While a Fed Cruiser (Excelsior) has. It's more capable of BATTLE than any Klingon BATTLE Cruiser.
(And no, the Battle Cruiser's +5 weapon power over the Cruiser's weapon power doesn't make up for the fact that no Klingon BATTLE Cruiser can never, ever, fire Beam Overload III or High Yield III).
And the KDF flagship, a BATTLE Cruiser I presume? Does it have a LtC BATTLE bridge officer slot? It should, at least, since you would think the flagship would be the most powerful (KDF powerful = guns) ship...
I'm posting about this long-standing problem now because PW is giving C the resources to finally beef up the KDF. So might as well make long-needed improvements to the KDF while the iron's hot.
(Speaking of KDF improvements... what about the two-month old QIN pivot point fix promise?)
Klingon BATTLE Cruisers.
None of which have a LtC BATTLE bridge officer slot.
While a Fed Cruiser (Excelsior) has. It's more capable of BATTLE than any Klingon BATTLE Cruiser.
(And no, the Battle Cruiser's +5 weapon power over the Cruiser's weapon power doesn't make up for the fact that no Klingon BATTLE Cruiser can never, ever, fire Beam Overload III or High Yield III).
And the KDF flagship, a BATTLE Cruiser I presume? Does it have a LtC BATTLE bridge officer slot? It should, at least, since you would think the flagship would be the most powerful (KDF powerful = guns) ship...
I'm posting about this long-standing problem now because PW is giving C the resources to finally beef up the KDF. So might as well make long-needed improvements to the KDF while the iron's hot.
(Speaking of KDF improvements... what about the two-month old QIN pivot point fix promise?)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Seriously dude, a Lt.Cmdr tactical slot would make them seriously overpowered to the extreme when paired with a tactical captain.
Quad cannons are going to be the norm for escort-class vessels. Klingon battle cruisers will not be able to mount or use quad cannons...and I do think that quad cannons are more than just cosmetic. I suspect that there is a damage boost in there.
That means that although KDF cruisers can mount cannons, they will fall far short of what an escort , destroyer, or light cruiser can dish out...saying that, I would not be surprised if one of the cruiser refits -- and my guess right now is with the Neghvar Refit that is on the schedule -- as having a LCDR Tac slot.
Now...will that make that particular ship OP in regards to the Federation cruiser class? Some folks are bound to say so...but right now the Excelsior is the most battle-capable cruiser in the game because of that LCDR Tac slot. The KDF has no parity when it comes to the Excelsior. That is the plain and simple truth. The reality is that the Excelsior, in the right hands, is OP.
The KDF should at least have parity...and considering the emphasis on battle and conflict, not having a cruiser with a LCDR Tac slot in the KDF ship stable is unnatural and unexpected - especially since the peace-loving Federation has exactly that.
Like I said, I sort of expect a future KDF cruiser to have a LCDR Tac slot -- now...how Cryptic will balance that? I don't know...but I am sure that they have some good ideas....
Oh and that fed cruiser that has a LTCMDR tac? It turns just as well as ours do.
Wait what about a Negh'var refit? Where was this announced?
This... or a K'tinga. The tinga's basically the same era as the excel, and both continued their service well past DS9.
Either ship (kvort or ktinga) would be awesome to have. They're icons for pete's sake. We're geeks who love the iconic ships we've seen in the shows.
Why don't they? That would be because Cryptic designed the game and Cryptic does things in a very cryptic way.......go figure....
But in all seriousness, the game's BO and ship setups are flawed on fundamental levels that inhibit expansion of the game, it's almost as if the game was only designed to last a few years with minimal expansion.
In order for the game to improve and move forward, the combat system needs to be either rebuilt from the ground up or completely redesigned. Grim outlook, but I've played enough MMOs and games in general to realize that this game was not built to last for a prolonged period of time. They're patching up part of it by redesigning the skill sheet, but damn do they have a LONG way to go before this game can really improve......hell we'd all be better off if this game was still in the oven and scheduled for release two years from now....
.......wow I got off track.....moving on
They have less fluff and rather simplistic conditions for the crew as a consequence the Klingons can build ships that can compete with Federation vessels roughly twice their mass
Constitution refit 210000 tons
K't'inga 120000 tons
Galaxy class 4500000 tons
Vor'cha 2238000 tons
as a result they are easier to build and gain an advantage in agility.
The Negh'var as it appeared in DS9 was an exception but then again that Negh'var turned like a brick and had massive firepower that could do with one salvoe what an entire fleet of regular ships could not do: know out the shields of a space station so it was not really comparable to the Negh'var we have in this game.
However this does not mean everything on them should be geared towards tactical functions, we do know Kang had a science officer aboard his D7.
In addition this game assigns ships of certain classes specific functions and Klingon battlecruisers have the same function as their Federation counterparts.
There is another problem associated with an LtC on a cruiser of any kind:
There is aleady the criticism of OPness of the Excelsior out there.
I do not think it would be a wise course of action to compund this by changing an exisitng Klingon ship into something similar or even more OPed.
It would not rebalance the sides when there is something equally OPed available to both, it would only mean that anyone who does not want to gimp himself will end up flying either of these ships while anything else is obsolete.
That's not balance, that rubbish.
I know this is suggestion is likely going to cause a storm of...****...heated responses.
But a cruiser-type ship with a reduced armament in general but an LtC Tactical would IMO be the more balanced way to go.
I think that would have been the prober way to deal with the Excelsior as well: limit it to less armament than the 4/4 of ships of ships like the Galaxy, Sovereign and Negh'var which are not only 80 or more years younger but also about twice her size.
As for making the two current factions and their ship distinct without resorting to anything over the top my proposal would be to give the ships on both sides bonus consoles based on their racial background.
As a result, unlike now, even ships with identical setups would be different.
The K'Vort as an excelsior counterpart would be, IMO, the best way and had be suggestet several times.
By the way, I'd love it to have kind of a "siege mode" console.... better hull and low turn rate when wings up, less hull and higher turn rate when wings down...
Sure the K'vort has only been seen with wings up on screen, but the whole BOP construction does not make much sense with imobile wings.
Well, we do know that even Star Trek ships still have to get rid of excess heat
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Heat_dissipation_unit
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs32/f/2008/234/5/5/Enterprise_D_Cutaway_by_DerShishaGott.jpg
(on the cutaway point number "31" is "heat dissipation vents" which are the dark "stripes" on the forward part of the nacelle pylons) so my guess is the can still have a reasonable function on such a ship: giant heat radiators for the giant guns...bigger than a K't'inga's warp nacelles.:)
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2869/klingonbopktingacomp.jpg
I play both factions and PvP on a regular basis thank you very much.
Ensign Tac
LTC Tac
LT Eng
LT Sci
LTC Eng
would be too much to ask or be unbalanced for KDF play.
Especially in view of the AHCRs set-up of ;
Ensign Eng
LT Eng
COM Eng
LTC tac
LT Sci
Frankly the OP KDF stigmata is a myth that refuses to die and I'm tired of it being used to gimp the faction when it comes to balance.
Though it does tickle me that the 82% feds think that the 18% KDF are OP becuase of thier ships and not based on thier individual skill of gameplay and the fact that this "belief" still exists after all the new consoles added to the game recently.
Its time to stop the gimping of the KDF based off of old out dated beliefs that hold no merit.
I would still suggest that the KDF cruisers turn rate advantage and ability to mount Dual and Heavy Cannons are a real asset for the KDF. Excelsiors are limited to beams and single cannons and the Gal-X doesnt really turn well enough to take advantage of Dual and Heavy Cannons it can mount (its kind of like mounting a GAU-30 on the front of a school bus).
Quite, my Vor'cha has heck of a lot more bite than my excelsior.
But then again when I play Klingon I'm more in for doing attack runs rather than slugging it out.
Point of order.
Mounting a GAU-30 on a school bus actually sounds quite fun.
And could lead to its use on other municipal vehicles as well.
I imagine that more people would clear a way for ambulances and emergency service vechiles if this was true.
Sure, the KDF doesn't have a counterpart to the Excelsior-R, the MVAE, and the D'Kyr/Nebula-R, but with exclusive access to carriers and battle cloaking raiders, we don't need them.
By "vessels of the line" surely you mean the Vo'Quv... very surviable, LtC slot... best ship in game
Actually I was reflecting on the ideology of design differences between the federation and the KDF as seen in the genre and how it often portrays the KDF as Tactical first followed by a firm engineering and then science undertones in thier vessel designs.
The Vo'Quv didn't cross my mind becuase I have only found it interesting until late, in leui of its enhancements after a long buff/nerf/ buff process. Nor do I include the Kar'fi.
mainly I was thinking just Battle Cruisers do not reflect the war-ready state that the KDF is often accussed of being single minded in.
Most of the screaming of OP for KDF ships has a great deal more to do with the players operating them then the ships them selves.
KDF ships have an entirely different design concept then Federation ships.
BOP's are not escorts.. hey are a Generalist ship with supurb manuverability and OPERATIONAL flexibility.. (thats operational in the military concept of Operational.. it fills in for the lack of many specialized ship classes.. not quite as good as a dedicated class, but it makes up for its lacks in flexibility)
Raptors are not excorts.. if the fill any role slot it is Attack/Strike light cruiser/heavy destroyers but they strongly differ from Federation escort classes in a number of subtle ways.
KDF Battlecruisers are definattly not a counterpart to Federation cruisers. They're more of a hybrid shiop optimized for attack. The iconic D-7/K't'inga with its 4 forward weapon mounts and high manuverability is the template from which ALL KDF battlecruiser should draw on with firepower concentrated forward.
I always thought the Vor'cha should have had 5 forward weapons and 3 aft with a LtC tas BO and dropping the second lower ranked engineering BO entirely. Its supposed to be a ship optimised to attck, attack, ATTACK! a war ship pure and simple. KDF Battlecruisers are not supposed to be TANK ships. The entire concept simply doesn't jibe with KDF ship concepts untill you get to the Carriers.
KDF Carriers are ment to dominate the battlespace, and form the core of a battle group. These are the tank/mobile fortresses of the KDF lineup. They mount a smaller weapons suite which is primarily for self defence.. the Fighters/BOP's they carry is the real firpower of the carriers but unlike wet navy carriers KDF carriers accompany thier launched craft into the battle providing support to the attack with SCI abilities. They pay for their advantages with very poor manuverability and agility. They have several glaring weaknesses which can be exploited by a canny player. But they're still hard to kill. but no worse then any Federation t-5 cruiser in the hands of a competent engineer captain.
Most importantly KDF ships are not ment to mirror federation ships and most definatly should not do so. They're ment to be different. They have weakness and strengths. AT the lower tiers these are strongly seen, and emphisized due to primarily where in the past players who were playing KDF tended to have strong ship combat skill. This factor pretty much put paid to lower tier PvP even though the Federation does have some absolutly excellent lower tier ships, especially the T-2,3,and 4 Science ships which tend to get overlooked by many palyers with thier excellent manuverabilty, solid weapons suite, and heavier shields then thier same tier cruiser counterparts (that 120% shields modifier to SCI ships is rather sweet)
The Klingons have a very old saying "Ships move, tactics are real. Speed is life" and thats not just movement.. thats the ability to act and react. The KDF Honor Guard ship sets reflect this concept strongly.. Very heavy covarient shield, ability to recover from hold situations with engine hot start, increased stealth, increased defence.. and a few other goodies. All of the attributes of the Honor Guard set accentuate the strengths of KDF ships. The Kelrun sets accentuate in a differing fashion and may be THE set to mount for Raptors and BOP's while the Honor Guard set is more appropriate for Battle Cruisers and Carriors, The Pardyme is reflected in the Elite Force set for the Federation and how the Kelrun set effects ship abilities for federation ships.
SO, let get mode "real" and have those LtCommander TAC Bridge Officers on KDF Battle Cruisers..
...........
Where they've always belonged.
Khemaraa Iron Hand
Klingon Black Fleet.
Est. 2000
Well. It was only a matter of time!
How about THIS for going against the grain....
Take the LTC Tac slot OFF of the Excelsior and replacing it with maybe a LTC Sci slot? That LTC Tac slot does not belong there...it makes the ship OP in its class, and it is a contradiction for the "peace-loving" Federation! But , maybe giving it a Sci slot is more in line with what the Federation is all about, right?
Yep. Thought so. Way too many people enjoy the advantages that the current Excelsior bridge officer layout provides. Besides, Cryptic is unlikely to change it now - it is already "spilled milk." I guess adding a LTC Tac to a KDF vessel...which makes logical sense given the nature of the KDF fleet, the Klingon culture of conflict, and the purpose of the KDF fleet, sort of makes sense, eh?
Check out the F2P Dev Blog #10. In that blog is a chart with ships listed -- both the ones that are in-game, and the ones that are coming. A Neghvar Refit is on that chart -- it is in italics, which means it is in the planning/development stages.
I say let them keep it and the KDF gets a vessel with a LTC tac slot.
How about this, the Vorcha can get the Excelsior station setup, and the Excelsior can have two Dual/ Heavy Cannon slots in the front.
Now, a couple of days after your post, we can honestly say it is confirmed this is not the case.
http://content.screencast.com/users/Slowsky/folders/Jing/media/ce3eae58-e29a-470f-b038-4e4bb79fb4ae/Ning_Tao.png
"The Quad Disruptor Cannons scale in effectiveness with your Rank and Grade and may be equipped on any ship that can equip cannons."
I'd rather see the Souvereign getting the excelsior setup (or may be slitghtly changed by making the ensign - eng another tac), the Vor'Cha should have... prety much the same... the Negh'va should get the current souvereign setup.... thats at least my opinion..
Either way I would certainly not object to several of the large cruisers getting LtC slots. It is logical, and it makes great sense. But sorry, that excelsior is going to have to stick with not mounting dual and quad cannon forward.
*evil grin* Don't worry Starfleet, you can handle it.