This is something I have not seen people talk about very much.
Most of the chaos seems to be focused on the cost of ships and equipment and availability of dilithium.
But this is something that is equally important and directly impacts both the aforementioned subjects.
At present on Holodeck we use Merits/Honor to Respec, Buy Bridge Officers, Train Bridge Officers, Rename Bridge Officers and rename Ships.
Out of the lot the two most important uses are Respeccing and training Bridge Officers.
Those two are vital to the game, as your skill point allocation and which skills your Bridge Officers have ultimately determine wether you succeed or fail in the game.
What is also important to understand that Merits/Honor are rewarded by virtually ALL missions.
To respec as a Vice Admiral you may need to grind A LOT, but how you do it is all up to you, wether you replay Episodes or play new ones, do PvP, Exploration or Dailies, its ultimately all up to you.
The new Dilithium system is at its core a consolidation of all the Badges, Medals, Marks and Emblems in the game.
All of these are by nature limited currencies that are rewarded for completing a handful of very very specific tasks.
They are not given out for the normal progression through Episodes and Patrol missions like the Merits/Honor are.
And as such, Merits/Honor is simply one of those currencies that is by nature incompatible with being consolidated into Dilithium.
Now Dilithium as we all know by now is essentially the new "Emblems", it will be the main currency for obtaining high quality equipment as well as new ships.
And this is where the problem starts.
Because what once cost Merits/Honor now costs dilithium, it will now be a drain on the same currency you need for getting a new ship and equipment.
Your freedom of being able to experiment with different Bridge Officer layouts and skills as well as being able to change your playstyle or fondly change the name of your ship and crew is being taken away from you.
Because you will no longer be able to afford to do so, since these things will now draw from the Time-Limited currency that you already "need" to get new ships and equipment, and you will need to work that much harder and longer to obtain it if you do.
Cryptic, I both understand and support the need to scale down on the excessive amount of currencies currently in the game, currencies that quickly become obsolete as you move past them.
But the Merit/Honor currency is not one of them.
The Merit/Honor currency is unique, and fills a critical role in both lore and what is practical.
I mean c'mon, when have you ever seen a starfleet officer being bought with dilithium like some kind of slave? Buying an officer with "Influence" makes a lot more sense here.
So Cryptic, I implore you, DO NOT remove the Merit/Honor system from the game, we need it, now more than ever.
Agree 110%... for nothing being taken away from subscribers, why is that every time I turn around something is being taken away.
Currently I don't ask for anything in exchange when another player needs a BOff trained in, say, CRF3. I do it for free because I have the Merits and because I like to help people when I can.
If, however, I have to use dilithium to train new abilities, then I am far less likely (read: not at all likely) to be helpful in this manner.
While I generally support the currency merger, I also think things like BOff training and the current emblem stores should switch to energy credits to create a big sink there.
While I generally support the currency merger, I also think things like BOff training and the current emblem stores should switch to energy credits to create a big sink there.
You know what, Energy Credits wouldn't be too bad. My gripe is that with Dilithium having such significance and being capped at a daily amount it would make build swapping too difficult. This really could be a good Energy Credit sink.
You know what, Energy Credits wouldn't be too bad. My gripe is that with Dilithium having such significance and being capped at a daily amount it would make build swapping too difficult. This really could be a good Energy Credit sink.
I think I could see tying dilithium to PROMOTIONS for BOs as its a time measure and a progression gate of sorts.
Thing is... Skills are something that it's healthy for people to experiment with on BOs. And the gear for sale in the dilithium store?
It will be obsolete in just a few of the new half hour non-Elite STF runs. So while that may succeed in encouraging STFs, I think the reality is that people even those who don't like the current STFs, will outgear the gear sold for dilithium long before they have enough, making those stores pointless.
I'm not sure how active the Elite STFs will be but the regular mode versions will have a queue system, take 30 minutes, and be just a bit more difficult than a Featured Episode. Even most folks who hate STFs will gear up there much faster than the inferior dilithium gear will allow for.
So, y'know, just make everything between 750k and 3 million Energy Credits and put it up there. The time investment for that versus STFs would be more balanced while still giving STFs the edge by being maybe 5-10 times faster for earning gear. But you'd still be able to do it in a full day of play.
I'd also make all of the vendor gear be BoE and scale down to lower levels so people can buy it for friends or alts and to help drain the EC surplus down.
Currently I don't ask for anything in exchange when another player needs a BOff trained in, say, CRF3. I do it for free because I have the Merits and because I like to help people when I can.
If, however, I have to use dilithium to train new abilities, then I am far less likely (read: not at all likely) to be helpful in this manner.
Another good point. In a Dilithium restricted world, gone will be the days of helping each other out... without compensation.
^ Forgot to mention this in my original post, but your quote and addition gives me the perfect opportunity to add it: I think that helping people out like that without asking for compensation helps to foster community in the game. If I have to use dilithium to train another player's BOff in an ability, then I'm either not going to offer to help at all or I'm going to request compensation in exchange, and I think that both hinders those feelings of community.
they're tying the wrong things to the new currency. Get rid of all emblems and marks, consolidate it to Dilithium leave merits/honor out of the picture. then at most you have EC, GPL Dilithium, Merit/honor.
EC for Costume/ship changes AH use.
GPL for dabo
Dilithium for ship/equipment
Merit/honor for BOFF/DOFF use. as well as respec
its simple, easy and not hard to track you get rid of the problem with all the levels of marks/emblems down into one currency and allow for everything else to stay how it was. EC/GPL/ Merits were not that big of an issue. the badges/marks/emblems, were the problem
I too used to train folks Boff for free, Now, its not happening, it will cost you CPoints now. It will have a Real money Value.
they're tying the wrong things to the new currency. Get rid of all emblems and marks, consolidate it to Dilithium leave merits/honor out of the picture. then at most you have EC, GPL Dilithium, Merit/honor.
EC for Costume/ship changes AH use.
GPL for dabo
Dilithium for ship/equipment
Merit/honor for BOFF/DOFF use. as well as respec
its simple, easy and not hard to track you get rid of the problem with all the levels of marks/emblems down into one currency and allow for everything else to stay how it was. EC/GPL/ Merits were not that big of an issue. the badges/marks/emblems, were the problem
I too used to train folks Boff for free, Now, its not happening, it will cost you CPoints now. It will have a Real money Value.
From my experience it does not cost C-Points (i.e. real cash) to train a bridge officer with a skill your character has. Were you prompted to spend C-Points to train one of your BOs with a skill your character can train on tribble?
In addition, from my experience the NPC at ESD who trains your BOFFs with new skills only has an EC cost listed and did not show any DL cost at all that I could see.. Even though there may be a bug which charges DL.
Seeing how they have already done away with Merits/Honor on tribble, in my opinion it should just cost a small amount of EC to train a BO with a skill your player has.. Just like it seems (to me) to be intended with the NPC who trains BO skills at ESD.
they're tying the wrong things to the new currency. Get rid of all emblems and marks, consolidate it to Dilithium leave merits/honor out of the picture. then at most you have EC, GPL Dilithium, Merit/honor.
EC for Costume/ship changes AH use.
GPL for dabo
Dilithium for ship/equipment
Merit/honor for BOFF/DOFF use. as well as respec
its simple, easy and not hard to track you get rid of the problem with all the levels of marks/emblems down into one currency and allow for everything else to stay how it was. EC/GPL/ Merits were not that big of an issue. the badges/marks/emblems, were the problem
I too used to train folks Boff for free, Now, its not happening, it will cost you CPoints now. It will have a Real money Value.
I dont think "charging" CPoints would really help the issue, but to each is own.
I look at training BOFFs should be looked at the same way as crafting in other MMOs (I'll use WoW as the example)
In WoW, say you want a belt made but you are not a blacksmith nor have the time/money/patience to level it. So you spam trade "LF BS w/ Belt Pattern my mats will tip" you provide the mats, the blacksmith makes you the belt, and you give him 10g for his time.
I would hope that the BOFF system would be the same way. I provide the Dilithium, someone trains them (after all if I had the ability to do so myself, I wouldnt be asking for help) and I tip them 100 or so Dilithium for their time. But as I said to each is own, I personally wouldn't tip/pay someone in CPoints for something that cost Dilithium to learn.
And to get back on topic, it still doesn't solve the catch-22 of Dilithium (I think I posted it in this thread) letting players use EC or keep Mertis/Honor in game would solve it very nicely. After all, can't we pay colleges to learn things we didn't already know? so basically with ECs, we are paying our BOFFs to learn new abilities, makes sense.
I talked with The Team about this today. Merit and Honor are going to be gone for good. However, I beleive you'll be seeing a favorable change to the way boffs are trained very soon on Tribble.
I talked with The Team about this today. Merit and Honor are going to be gone for good. However, I beleive you'll be seeing a favorable change to the way boffs are trained very soon on Tribble.
I talked with The Team about this today. Merit and Honor are going to be gone for good. However, I beleive you'll be seeing a favorable change to the way boffs are trained very soon on Tribble.
Thanks,
Stormshade
is it Voodoo?
I mean...dilithium makes no sense. Merit and honor are gone.
It's voodoo, isn't it? Some guy with a skull face wearing a top hot is going to be the skill trainer and our BOFFs will magically aquire new skills. Finally, a change from F2P that I can get behind.
I talked with The Team about this today. Merit and Honor are going to be gone for good. However, I beleive you'll be seeing a favorable change to the way boffs are trained very soon on Tribble.
Thanks,
Stormshade
It would be nice if it had something to do with the Academy...and was, dare I say, free? Or even an assignment through the doff system?
You did see that part where I mentioned a "favorable change" to the way this works right?
This is an issue I can honestly say does not need the torch and pitchfork approach.
Thanks,
Stormshade
On the contary, everything that you are doing of late deserves the torch and pitchfork approach. Anything less and the 'vocal minoritory' is overlooked completely.
Unless there is fire and brimestone at stake, cryptic seems happy to steamroll over all, and any protests of its recent (much maligned) ideas.
Cryptic (of late) has created a community where we must take everything with a pinch of salt. If we give an inch we give a mile. Is that the kind of community you are hoping for?
I talked with The Team about this today. Merit and Honor are going to be gone for good. However, I beleive you'll be seeing a favorable change to the way boffs are trained very soon on Tribble.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Thank you for the update.
Personally they could probably do away with any cost for BO skill training since you are still sorta limited by:
1) How much BO XP you have at any given point (except end-game where you have tons of extra)
and
2) How many BO's you have total due to slots which are limited by level (but can be expanded via C-Store)
In my opinion making the NPC and player provided BO re-training free or inconsequential may motivate people to try more skills, which may require more BOs (due to not wanting to change existing BOs that "work"), which may provide a C-Store purchasing opportunity or two.
You did see that part where I mentioned a "favorable change" to the way this works right?
This is an issue I can honestly say does not need the torch and pitchfork approach.
Thanks,
Stormshade
You still have not mentioned anything about ship and bridge officer renaming, or how to obtain respecs in game in the future(which are bought for Merits/Honor)
I talked with The Team about this today. Merit and Honor are going to be gone for good. However, I beleive you'll be seeing a favorable change to the way boffs are trained very soon on Tribble.
Thanks,
Stormshade
I need 30k Honor now to Respec. With Honor now gone, how do I earn new Respecs in game?
You did see that part where I mentioned a "favorable change" to the way this works right?
This is an issue I can honestly say does not need the torch and pitchfork approach.
Thanks,
Stormshade
I don't know what the plan for Boff training is, but since you guys are looking for ways to have more of an EC sink to curb inflation, this is a great place to do it
I don't know what the plan for Boff training is, but since you guys are looking for ways to have more of an EC sink to curb inflation, this is a great place to do it
They have already curbed inflation on Tribble - no one can afford to buy anything. Problem solved.
I talked with The Team about this today. Merit and Honor are going to be gone for good. However, I beleive you'll be seeing a favorable change to the way boffs are trained very soon on Tribble.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Thanks. Looking forward to seeing what you guys have planned.
One of the major things that we at Cryptic, and the folks at PWE want to do is rework PvP a little more. This is going to start with that massive KDF update we keep talking about, and then more PvP awesomeness should follow.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Just look at your data, i m willing to bet that those players who primarily pvp, are also the biggest users of respecs. it kind of comes with the territory.
You did see that part where I mentioned a "favorable change" to the way this works right?
This is an issue I can honestly say does not need the torch and pitchfork approach.
Thanks,
Stormshade
"favorable change" as in "soon" or as in "ships prices going down"??
Let me rephrase: Respecs,how to do them? How much for gold, how much for silver??
thank you
Comments
Agree 110%... for nothing being taken away from subscribers, why is that every time I turn around something is being taken away.
If, however, I have to use dilithium to train new abilities, then I am far less likely (read: not at all likely) to be helpful in this manner.
You know what, Energy Credits wouldn't be too bad. My gripe is that with Dilithium having such significance and being capped at a daily amount it would make build swapping too difficult. This really could be a good Energy Credit sink.
I think I could see tying dilithium to PROMOTIONS for BOs as its a time measure and a progression gate of sorts.
Thing is... Skills are something that it's healthy for people to experiment with on BOs. And the gear for sale in the dilithium store?
It will be obsolete in just a few of the new half hour non-Elite STF runs. So while that may succeed in encouraging STFs, I think the reality is that people even those who don't like the current STFs, will outgear the gear sold for dilithium long before they have enough, making those stores pointless.
I'm not sure how active the Elite STFs will be but the regular mode versions will have a queue system, take 30 minutes, and be just a bit more difficult than a Featured Episode. Even most folks who hate STFs will gear up there much faster than the inferior dilithium gear will allow for.
So, y'know, just make everything between 750k and 3 million Energy Credits and put it up there. The time investment for that versus STFs would be more balanced while still giving STFs the edge by being maybe 5-10 times faster for earning gear. But you'd still be able to do it in a full day of play.
I'd also make all of the vendor gear be BoE and scale down to lower levels so people can buy it for friends or alts and to help drain the EC surplus down.
Manging and experimenting with BOff's should have the same freedom as it does now.
Another good point. In a Dilithium restricted world, gone will be the days of helping each other out... without compensation.
EC for Costume/ship changes AH use.
GPL for dabo
Dilithium for ship/equipment
Merit/honor for BOFF/DOFF use. as well as respec
its simple, easy and not hard to track you get rid of the problem with all the levels of marks/emblems down into one currency and allow for everything else to stay how it was. EC/GPL/ Merits were not that big of an issue. the badges/marks/emblems, were the problem
I too used to train folks Boff for free, Now, its not happening, it will cost you CPoints now. It will have a Real money Value.
From my experience it does not cost C-Points (i.e. real cash) to train a bridge officer with a skill your character has. Were you prompted to spend C-Points to train one of your BOs with a skill your character can train on tribble?
In addition, from my experience the NPC at ESD who trains your BOFFs with new skills only has an EC cost listed and did not show any DL cost at all that I could see.. Even though there may be a bug which charges DL.
Seeing how they have already done away with Merits/Honor on tribble, in my opinion it should just cost a small amount of EC to train a BO with a skill your player has.. Just like it seems (to me) to be intended with the NPC who trains BO skills at ESD.
I dont think "charging" CPoints would really help the issue, but to each is own.
I look at training BOFFs should be looked at the same way as crafting in other MMOs (I'll use WoW as the example)
In WoW, say you want a belt made but you are not a blacksmith nor have the time/money/patience to level it. So you spam trade "LF BS w/ Belt Pattern my mats will tip" you provide the mats, the blacksmith makes you the belt, and you give him 10g for his time.
I would hope that the BOFF system would be the same way. I provide the Dilithium, someone trains them (after all if I had the ability to do so myself, I wouldnt be asking for help) and I tip them 100 or so Dilithium for their time. But as I said to each is own, I personally wouldn't tip/pay someone in CPoints for something that cost Dilithium to learn.
And to get back on topic, it still doesn't solve the catch-22 of Dilithium (I think I posted it in this thread) letting players use EC or keep Mertis/Honor in game would solve it very nicely. After all, can't we pay colleges to learn things we didn't already know? so basically with ECs, we are paying our BOFFs to learn new abilities, makes sense.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Yes, keep us in suspense why don't you!!!
I was hoping that the dilithium being used to purchase BOs was a horrible mistake or a bug. /sigh
is it Voodoo?
I mean...dilithium makes no sense. Merit and honor are gone.
It's voodoo, isn't it? Some guy with a skull face wearing a top hot is going to be the skill trainer and our BOFFs will magically aquire new skills. Finally, a change from F2P that I can get behind.
It would be nice if it had something to do with the Academy...and was, dare I say, free? Or even an assignment through the doff system?
You did see that part where I mentioned a "favorable change" to the way this works right?
This is an issue I can honestly say does not need the torch and pitchfork approach.
Thanks,
Stormshade
And the free reskills that the Merits use to give us? Thouse are gone for good?
On the contary, everything that you are doing of late deserves the torch and pitchfork approach. Anything less and the 'vocal minoritory' is overlooked completely.
Unless there is fire and brimestone at stake, cryptic seems happy to steamroll over all, and any protests of its recent (much maligned) ideas.
Cryptic (of late) has created a community where we must take everything with a pinch of salt. If we give an inch we give a mile. Is that the kind of community you are hoping for?
Thank you for the update.
Personally they could probably do away with any cost for BO skill training since you are still sorta limited by:
1) How much BO XP you have at any given point (except end-game where you have tons of extra)
and
2) How many BO's you have total due to slots which are limited by level (but can be expanded via C-Store)
In my opinion making the NPC and player provided BO re-training free or inconsequential may motivate people to try more skills, which may require more BOs (due to not wanting to change existing BOs that "work"), which may provide a C-Store purchasing opportunity or two.
You still have not mentioned anything about ship and bridge officer renaming, or how to obtain respecs in game in the future(which are bought for Merits/Honor)
I need 30k Honor now to Respec. With Honor now gone, how do I earn new Respecs in game?
I don't know what the plan for Boff training is, but since you guys are looking for ways to have more of an EC sink to curb inflation, this is a great place to do it
They have already curbed inflation on Tribble - no one can afford to buy anything. Problem solved.
Thanks. Looking forward to seeing what you guys have planned.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/
Great for making a million builds and seeing how many points you'll spend and where you'll spend them.
Just look at your data, i m willing to bet that those players who primarily pvp, are also the biggest users of respecs. it kind of comes with the territory.
"favorable change" as in "soon" or as in "ships prices going down"??
Let me rephrase: Respecs,how to do them? How much for gold, how much for silver??
thank you