All I have to say is, how can you actually expect an improvement when they only jsut realized that the Academy uniform was the first ever Klingon-only uniform?
Opening Klingon play at level 25 is designed to make the grind shorter, not improve game play.
The latest statements have the Klinks starting play around 18, and leaving Qu'nos at 21 in a T3 ship - but that is still subject to change.
And there is nothing wrong with making the grind shorter. I have a Brig Gen 2 who has sat idle for months and months simply because I do not have the strength to grind out the rest of the levels. It is just not worth it when it is not fun.
The latest statements have the Klinks starting play around 18, and leaving Qu'nos at 21 in a T3 ship - but that is still subject to change.
Still a bad idea. It doesn't fix the problem. They know what the problem is. They've known what the problem is for ages. They continue to not fix the problem.
After playing a Klingon to about Commander and heard this bit of news. I am not astonished, am I furious... no not really, Do I feel the KDF has been castrated by the development team? Yes, by the head mans asking I did look at his track record and it isn't good he can try and pretty it up all he wants but it is still a known and reviled fact. This is a one faction game and this new update just did lop important parts off the KDF, Do you think the Horde in WoW has this kind of thing no. Take a page and make them a enjoyable faction not some Bonus feature. This whole thing just shouts LAZY!!!
If now is a good time to start abusing the Bloodwine then i dunno what time to do so.
May the KDF get an honorable end not just some half baked moronic idea.
This was my point. I was thinking they were going to make KDF side better.
They are. But there are only X number of people and Y number of hours in day - and for the last 6 months all those Xs and Ys have been focused on one thing: FTP transition.
They are. But there are only X number of people and Y number of hours in day - and for the last 6 months all those Xs and Ys have been focused on one thing: FTP transition.
You left out Section 31 uniforms, Bajoran uniforms, the Rhode Island, Combat Horta.
You left out Section 31 uniforms, Bajoran uniforms, the Rhode Island, Combat Horta.
Many of which items were outsourced or done by 1 person at Cryptic rather then a team of people.
There is no doubt we were given the Mission Content shaft. Since May, when the PW purchase was first announced - and even prior to that when we did not even know about the sale but it was still going on - Cryptic has been focusing on the FTP shift. That decision screwed the 18% who play Klinks and the 82% who play Feds. There is nothing we can do about that so continuing to waste energy harping about is is akin to continuing to waste energy complaining about how TNG was cancelled. It accomplishes nothing. We have to deal with what is here today and coming tomorrow. Not deal with what happen 6 months ago - even though it changed our lives today. That ship has sailed.
Many of which items were outsourced or done by 1 person at Cryptic rather then a team of people.
Outsourced? I find that hard to believe given the financial constraints they now, after the fact, say they were under. Too many contradictory statements really to know what to believe anymore. All that we the players can know for sure is ... the entire time the development team had no cups in the kitchen, the c-store was A-OK and kept chugging along.
Outsourced? I find that hard to believe given the financial constraints they now, after the fact, say they were under.
I can only recall statements in which they stressed they would have a better budget now than under Atari, repeatedly. And that the new publisher, unlike Atari, would like the KDF to be on equal footing.
And really, given the choice between 43 levels of barren spell and boring grind with only the occasional cool mission in-between or 30 levels with one sweet assignment after the other - I know what I'd prefer. And as another player pointed out before, given the speed at which people are leveling, what matters most is endgame. It's not as if the game stops at LtG, is it? For if you think that way, the issue is far bigger and affects the Feds as well.
What exactly are we going to lose in those 13 levels, anyways? Don't tell me you are going to miss Empire Defense.
Removing the levels as they plan will still leave a boring grind in there. I've played the content that's there. It's not enough to cover what they're doing either.
Maybe. I also hope that, in addition to removing some of the levels, they will add content to the ones that remain. Either way, it will get more bearable and less ... "demotivating", as someone else has put it, to new players who are taking a look at the KDF to see if it's any fun.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that a bit of optimism doesn't hurt. At least it's more fun than doom and gloom.
Optimism isn't warranted with this change. New players won't even see the KDF until they're level 25.
I don't think there is a call for optimism here either, the only thing that I'm seeing with these changes is an influx of players who are going to be gimped because they don't want to pay for essential parts of gameplay (like with the bridge officer restrictions).
People are talking about how this game is going to be so much better off under the freemium model but so far I fail to see it, I just see more of the same with Cryptic having fewer excuses due to the 'bigger' budget.
It's simple mathematics. If people feel gimped because, instead of paying $10-15 every month they would have to invest ~$5 for an additional BO slot once, that's ... well, I guess it's always possible to go "the glass is half empty", I'm just saying you're robbing yourself of the fun you could have with a more light-hearted approach. This is supposed to be entertainment, after all.
And I maintain it's better to see a proper, content-filled KDF at level 25 than the bare-bones version we have now at level 7. Curiosity (and the KDF-limited character slot) will bring people to check it out, regardless of at what level it will become possible. What matters is will they stay?
I think this is a really really bad idea. The feature episodes were starting to make leveling a Klingon much better and we are going to have them added almost weekly according to recent statement (yeah right). I really don't understand why they've backtracked on thier statement of having both factions available to play immediatly and altered it this way. I really don't get why they chose lvl 25 either, surely lvl 21 makes more sence.
The way I see it, they are going to have to make drastic changes to how the KDF faction is right now to push these changes, and then will in the future, have to make massive changes again to put it back. why not simply stop remastering the federation episodes (which are all meant to be done by the end of this year from what they said earlier this year) and instead work on making more missions for the KDF faction?
I know there is a lack of content for Klingons and for players in general, but reducing the ammount of levels to try and hide that fact just seems really weak to me and still doesn't address the fact that once a player gets to max level (which will be faster now), there still isn't really anything to do. I'm genuinely curious how they are going to revamp all the KDF content to make this change.
Could you imagine how WoW would of turned out if you could only play the Horde if you goto level 30, lol
It's simple mathematics. If people feel gimped because, instead of paying $10-15 every month they would have to invest ~$5 for an additional BO slot once, that's ... well, I guess it's always possible to go "the glass is half empty", I'm just saying you're robbing yourself of the fun you could have with a more light-hearted approach. This is supposed to be entertainment, after all.
Maybe so, but having to pay to win doesn't sit well with me under any circumstance.
And I maintain it's better to see a proper, content-filled KDF at level 25 than the bare-bones version we have now at level 7. Curiosity (and the KDF-limited character slot) will bring people to check it out, regardless of at what level it will become possible. What matters is will they stay?
That's just it though, starting at level 25 is another massive mistake that they're making in the name of time. They can say that they'll bring the faction up to par with the Federation, but if they do this then we'll still only have half a faction. The Romulans will likely be done the same way too, unlocked at lvl 25 with their content.
You're only happy with it because it's better than what we've been having to deal with for the past year and a half. But half of the experience won't keep people around when the Federation has almost everything to offer that we do and more....:(
You're only happy with it because it's better than what we've been having to deal with for the past year and a half.
That's exactly it. Of course it is not perfect, oh no - but given that it's still better than the current situation I think it is a step forward, however small. And as long as we are moving forward at all, I think it's good.
Of course one might take a look at the Federation and get jealous. Myself, I'm rather looking back at how the KDF looked when this game started, and compare that to what we have right now. Regardless of the announcements hinting at a change regarding that, the Klingon faction is still the stepchild of STO. But still, there was a development and continuous improvement.
Yeah, it's hard to gauge how people will react, but I *think* the KDF-limited second character slot will at least make people consider it. More than they do now, anyways.
I mean, at this very moment, you could not start a Klingon right away, too. You'd have to play until "Stop the Signal" at least. People who know they want to play KDF right from the moment they install the game will wait until they can, regardless at what level they unlock them. It's the people who are "just curious" that make the difference. These, too, will try out KDF whenever they get the option ... it's just that currently there isn't much of an incentive to stick around. And I think there's a good chance this may change.
Maybe it won't, who knows, but I hardly think it would get worse. And as I said, personally I'm having way more fun imagining that there's a silver lining at the horizon rather than bemoaning the possibility of dark clouds. Things could go either way, and I may be wrong, but there's no reason to stir up a bad mood about it just for the sake of ... well, stirring up a bad mood - especially with as little information as we have at this point of time regardine the fine details.
Maybe it won't, who knows, but I hardly think it would get worse. And as I said, personally I'm having way more fun imagining that there's a silver lining at the horizon rather than bemoaning the possibility of dark clouds. Things could go either way, and I may be wrong, but there's no reason to stir up a bad mood about it just for the sake of ... well, stirring up a bad mood - especially with as little information as we have at this point of time regardine the fine details.
I and others aren't just trying to stir up a bad mood. I think that is a cheap way of ignoring most of the discussion and the points that many people have made. The Devs have said in their matrix and FAQ that they will make adjustments based on community feedback, and well, we are giving them feedback. Stormshade himself acknowledged that this will be rough on the Klingons.
We have a concern, which I think has been fairly well outlined. And at this point, the fine details don't make much of a difference. They have outlined most of the major points. A) Klingons unlock at level 25, b) Klingon characters will start at level 18-20, C) there will be some big Klingon update a later time, currently scheduled for 2012. What fine details can you imagine that would change things?
Yeah, sure there is a silver lining. Now new Klingon players will have less grind aggravation. However, do any of the other plans that the Devs have disclosed make sense to you? For instance, why have Klingons unlock at level 25 and then penalize the Klingon character 5-7 levels at generation? Why choose an arbitrary number like 25?
Second, if they are going to make a new tutorial for the Federation, why can't they go ahead and do one for the Klingons while they are at it?
Klingon development keeps getting pushed back for other projects. I don't for a second believe that they will get a Klingon update out in a timely fashion in order to help the KDF. They won't even commit to a season for it. Yet, they want our patience again. In the meantime, the Federation will continue to have a more developed, more well rounded faction with a ton more stuff in the C-Store. New players have no choice even but to make a Federation player, etc.
Bah, why am I repeating myself? If you don't want to be part of the discussion and feedback for the Devs, then don't. However, please refrain from mischaracterizing us as just stirring up a bad mood just for the sake of stirring up a bad mood. There are plenty of legitimate concerns floating around out there.
For instance, why have Klingons unlock at level 25 and then penalize the Klingon character 5-7 levels at generation? Why choose an arbitrary number like 25?
Can you elaborate on that "penalization"?
Also, I don't think the number was chosen arbitrarily - If they would allow to create a level 20 KDF character right away, many people could skip Fedplay because lots of players think that skipping levels is cool and the faster they get to endgame, the better. That said, right now, the Klingon faction still doesn't offer as much content as the Federation (and this won't change for at least a year I think, even if their announced intentions are accurate), so it makes sense that Cryptic may have a certain preference for new players looking at the UFP first and Klingons second.
Second, if they are going to make a new tutorial for the Federation, why can't they go ahead and do one for the Klingons while they are at it?
Prioritization. I know it feels bad, but we are still a minority. And frankly, I'd rather have more stuff to do at endgame than some tutorial that I wish I could skip after having been forced through once. At least that's how I felt about the Fed one.
Still, apparently it is on their ominous list. Personally, I think there's more important stuff to address, and I do hope they'd get to do that first.
If you don't want to be part of the discussion and feedback for the Devs, then don't. However, please refrain from mischaracterizing us as just stirring up a bad mood just for the sake of stirring up a bad mood. There are plenty of legitimate concerns floating around out there.
There's also plenty of hearsay and the creation of false claims that other people may take seriously - an example being that post where it was suggested that KDF players would have to pay for their content.
I am part of this community as well, and my approval of these changes is feedback, too. If you think I should not be allowed to voice it so that your concerns will evoke a stronger reaction from both other players as well as the devs, then this just strenghtens my point.
I am all for voicing criticism and have done so in the past, but in my personal opionion, this here is not constructive. However, I will honour your wish and leave this topic alone for now. I realize my input won't change your mind, and at the end of the day it's up to all of us individually on how we deal with the recent announcements.
Also, I don't think the number was chosen arbitrarily - If they would allow to create a level 20 KDF character right away, many people could skip Fedplay because lots of players think that skipping levels is cool and the faster they get to endgame, the better. That said, right now, the Klingon faction still doesn't offer as much content as the Federation (and this won't change for at least a year I think, even if their announced intentions are accurate), so it makes sense that Cryptic may have a certain preference for new players looking at the UFP first and Klingons second.
The penalty is this: 1) new playes have to wait until level 25 to unlock the KDF, 2) they then start a new KDF character at level 18 or so. They new Klingon character is penalized 7 levels. Why? If they start at level 18, then unlocking them at level 25 is arbitrary. It makes more sense for Klingons to start at the same level they unlock. The stated reason for the level 25 unlock is because of the lack of Klingon content, but then they seem to be confident that there is enough to level from 18 to 45. Therefore, there doesn't seem to be a real reason to delay unlocking Klingons at level 25. It could be done at level 18. Does that make sense?
Prioritization. I know it feels bad, but we are still a minority. And frankly, I'd rather have more stuff to do at endgame than some tutorial that I wish I could skip after having been forced through once. At least that's how I felt about the Fed one.
Still, apparently it is on their ominous list. Personally, I think there's more important stuff to address, and I do hope they'd get to do that first.
I get the prioritization point. However, it was enough of a priority earlier this year that we were supposed to get a tutorial over the summer. And I didn't want the tutorial for myself. I wanted it for new players that could have come in and started a KDF character right off the bat without the unlock. The Feds arleady have a tutorial and it is sufficent. They could have just tweaked it, if need be, and then made one for the Klingon faction. I feel like it is a misallocation of resources. But, that is just my opinion.
There's also plenty of hearsay and the creation of false claims that other people may take seriously - an example being that post where it was suggested that KDF players would have to pay for their content.
A fair point, and no denying that. However, your post seemingly dismisses EVERYONE's comments as stirring up a bad mood just for the sake of stirring up a bad mood. There is plenty of constructive criticism, suggestions, and feedback for the Devs. Just because feedback is not in agreement doesn't make it stirring up a bad mood just for the sake of stirring up a bad mood.
I am part of this community as well, and my approval of these changes is feedback, too. If you think I should not be allowed to voice it so that your concerns will evoke a stronger reaction from both other players as well as the devs, then this just strenghtens my point.
I am all for voicing criticism and have done so in the past, but in my personal opionion, this here is not constructive. However, I will honour your wish and leave this topic alone for now. I realize my input won't change your mind, and at the end of the day it's up to all of us individually on how we deal with the recent announcements.
1) I never denied you were part of the community. 2) I never denied you your right to offer positive feedback. 3) Nowhere did I say you shouldn't be allowed to voice your positive feedback. To argue otherwise mischaracterizes anything I have said on these forums.
In my view, your post was dismissive of any negative feedback and written off as having no purpose other than stirring up a bad mood for the sake of stirring up a bad mood. That is hardly fair.
I do not agree with leaving the KDF until level 25 to unlock it and certainly leaving it so that you start at level 18...
This is the fix they have to a side that has little content and lots of grind?...are they afraid that when F2P players come in and see that the low-level KDF have a serious lack of missions that they won't play?...apparently that is not the case as we have Klingon fans and they will definitely play just to get themselves a high-level Klingon....we have players now who grind and grind multiple toons just because they like the KDF faction....I don't see the logic apart from buying them more time and making it look like the KDF is in a better condition that it really is.....
Couldn't agree more with you.
Cryptic just wants to hide in what bad shaope KDF is from new customers until they, perhaps if ever, can fix them. I doubt that will happen any time soon or even next year as Cryptic will have more to do to create new ways to create revenue after going F2P.
Just thought about making a topic in the mainforum with ideas for KDF content.
Here are some of my concluding thoughts on this topic:
I think the conclusion to take from the plan is that they want new players to come in and try out the well rounded faction and grow to like the game rather than risk having them try out the KDF first and decide it is horrible and quit. They are a business, and I can understand the logic in that.
However, if they just left it at a level 25 unlock, it would still create a content problem for the Klingons with levelling. Therefore, we have the level 18/20/25 (depending on what source you look at) starting point for new KDF characters. Coupled with that is a promise of a Klingon update/expansion that will fill in the lower levels, add a tutorial, and make the KDF the complete faction that the Devs and Players have always wanted it to be.
I've noted my concerns in a bunch of places. Those include not being part of the initial wave of new players that join the game, having new players get settled in to playing the Federation (by joining Fed fleets, buying Fed items in the C-Store, and being exposed to KDF perks, all before they have the chance to try the KDF), and not starting a KDF player at the level they actually unlock at. The Devs haven't really responded to them or similar concerns voiced by others other than to say that they know this isn't ideal, but it gives them a great opportunity, PWE wants to fully develop the faction, they want to develop the faction, and it is going to happen.
Given the track record, I'm skeptical. The KDF has been...promised might not be the right word, but at least lead to believe on multiple occassions that a lot of work was being done on the faction only to find out later that the intended work fell down the priority list. I'm thinking of Klingon patrol missions or DSEs in all sectors, the Klingon tutorial, being able to make a Klingon at level 1, new Klingon ships, additional Klingon missions, remastered Federation missions to be played on the KDF side, remodelled Qo'noS, the Klingon Academy, an equivalent to the Diplomacy system, Klingon costumes, the new Gorn models, etc.
Granted we got some of those (Qo'nos, the remodelled Gorn, some new Klingon ships, Klingon costumes, etc.), but usually well after the Federation got their version and rarely within the timeframe that was discussed by the Devs. Others (such as the Klingon academy, more Klingon ships, etc.), we are on the verge of getting, but again, well after we were lead to believe we would see them. Our Marauder system is tied to the DOff system, which we should see in testing any day now, but I'm not sure it really is an equivalent to the Diplomacy system. The diplomacy system had missions released with it. It does not appear the Marauder system will. Other things appear to be in the distant future, namely the Klingon tutorial, starting at level one, Klingon patrols and DSEs, etc.
Now I'm concerned that the Klingon update and expansion won't be all that it is being hyped up to be. The longer people have to wait for something, the more they expect out of the finished project. This long delay to create missions for Klingons is raising my expectations that they will all be of the quality of the FEs and the remastered episodes. Otherwise, I can't see why it would take so long to do them. In addition, they keep saying that the opportunity to release an update or expansion will fill out the KDF. To me that says they are adding more episodic missions, DSEs and patrols, more social hubs, etc. In other words, the whole nine yards that the Federation has. Not to mention, words like "expansion" imply huge releases of content. If they keep talking like that, and they don't deliver, the result could be disastrous.
I hope they are farther along than I think they are in creating this Klingon update/expansion. I hope they are really going to come through for the KDF. I hope we aren't finding out at this time next year that it isn't as big as they wanted, or that it is still in design discussion.
At any rate, those are my thoughts and my feedback to the Devs summarized in one place. I'm not going to discuss the topic much further anymore unless the Devs release more details about it or change the plan. The Devs seem to have made up their mind about the course for the KDF even taking into account the feedback they have received from the community. I'm going to try to enjoy the content that is out there and hope for the best for the KDF.
Well, I think what might be lost in the conversation, and one of my larger complaints is how this cheapens the efforts I've had in earning all the Lt. Generals I have. Furthermore, it nullifies the efforts of the MANY commanders I have earned. I've actually quit playing all but one of my KDF toons because of this... its sapped the life out of it for me. I don't know what other people are doing, but that's how I feel.
Personally I think they should find a way to reward us for having gone through the hellish KDF grind, and then do their level shift thing. That would be fair. That way it is now, they've nullified months of my personal efforts and That I do not like.
Tangentially, It annoys me that I've bought all the character races, and now they're going free. I don't understand what they're thinking. By nullifying the value of so many things I've done, they're actually making me less likely to put any money into the future.
Well, I think what might be lost in the conversation, and one of my larger complaints is how this cheapens the efforts I've had in earning all the Lt. Generals I have. Furthermore, it nullifies the efforts of the MANY commanders I have earned. I've actually quit playing all but one of my KDF toons because of this... its sapped the life out of it for me. I don't know what other people are doing, but that's how I feel.
Personally I think they should find a way to reward us for having gone through the hellish KDF grind, and then do their level shift thing. That would be fair. That way it is now, they've nullified months of my personal efforts and That I do not like.
Tangentially, It annoys me that I've bought all the character races, and now they're going free. I don't understand what they're thinking. By nullifying the value of so many things I've done, they're actually making me less likely to put any money into the future.
They better give those of us that sank the money into getting the character races something special. AS much as I'd love to say Liberated Borg, I honestly think that those should remain with the LTS people, as badly as I want to get one myself.
I need nothing special for having played KDF for so long. Its my passion and I would have played anyways.
What we need is the fullfillment of the promise that the L25 change for F2p is temporary and only in place until the Devs deliver a full KDF factinal experience that does not leave one wondering why even bother playing KDF.
If that fullfillment never happens or is greatly pushed back again, they might as well put a bullet in the faction as the fans will no longer trust Cryptic again.
have no illusions though, it will still be less than fun and a condensed version of the grind we have until said reformation arrives. That is the thing that may push the new players away from the KDF for a time.
Just a guess, but looking at the speed and lack of speed with new content, as well as the delays to content that should have been in 4.0, I guess a full Klingon experience might come about 8 to 12 months after free to play, if resources are alloted to it. In forsight that means a potential Romulan faction will be pushed back even further, I would guess into end of 2012 or even 2013.
I have to agree with Roach though. KDF is also my passion. If KDF isn't brought into a full faction mode within a year or so, it will be very easy to disbelieve Cryptic. And though shorter, the grind will still be a grind.
Comments
And there is nothing wrong with making the grind shorter. I have a Brig Gen 2 who has sat idle for months and months simply because I do not have the strength to grind out the rest of the levels. It is just not worth it when it is not fun.
Still a bad idea. It doesn't fix the problem. They know what the problem is. They've known what the problem is for ages. They continue to not fix the problem.
This was my point. I was thinking they were going to make KDF side better.
If now is a good time to start abusing the Bloodwine then i dunno what time to do so.
May the KDF get an honorable end not just some half baked moronic idea.
You left out Section 31 uniforms, Bajoran uniforms, the Rhode Island, Combat Horta.
There is no doubt we were given the Mission Content shaft. Since May, when the PW purchase was first announced - and even prior to that when we did not even know about the sale but it was still going on - Cryptic has been focusing on the FTP shift. That decision screwed the 18% who play Klinks and the 82% who play Feds. There is nothing we can do about that so continuing to waste energy harping about is is akin to continuing to waste energy complaining about how TNG was cancelled. It accomplishes nothing. We have to deal with what is here today and coming tomorrow. Not deal with what happen 6 months ago - even though it changed our lives today. That ship has sailed.
Outsourced? I find that hard to believe given the financial constraints they now, after the fact, say they were under. Too many contradictory statements really to know what to believe anymore. All that we the players can know for sure is ... the entire time the development team had no cups in the kitchen, the c-store was A-OK and kept chugging along.
And really, given the choice between 43 levels of barren spell and boring grind with only the occasional cool mission in-between or 30 levels with one sweet assignment after the other - I know what I'd prefer. And as another player pointed out before, given the speed at which people are leveling, what matters most is endgame. It's not as if the game stops at LtG, is it? For if you think that way, the issue is far bigger and affects the Feds as well.
What exactly are we going to lose in those 13 levels, anyways? Don't tell me you are going to miss Empire Defense.
Just something to keep in mind.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that a bit of optimism doesn't hurt. At least it's more fun than doom and gloom.
I don't think there is a call for optimism here either, the only thing that I'm seeing with these changes is an influx of players who are going to be gimped because they don't want to pay for essential parts of gameplay (like with the bridge officer restrictions).
People are talking about how this game is going to be so much better off under the freemium model but so far I fail to see it, I just see more of the same with Cryptic having fewer excuses due to the 'bigger' budget.
And I maintain it's better to see a proper, content-filled KDF at level 25 than the bare-bones version we have now at level 7. Curiosity (and the KDF-limited character slot) will bring people to check it out, regardless of at what level it will become possible. What matters is will they stay?
That's not optimism.
The way I see it, they are going to have to make drastic changes to how the KDF faction is right now to push these changes, and then will in the future, have to make massive changes again to put it back. why not simply stop remastering the federation episodes (which are all meant to be done by the end of this year from what they said earlier this year) and instead work on making more missions for the KDF faction?
I know there is a lack of content for Klingons and for players in general, but reducing the ammount of levels to try and hide that fact just seems really weak to me and still doesn't address the fact that once a player gets to max level (which will be faster now), there still isn't really anything to do. I'm genuinely curious how they are going to revamp all the KDF content to make this change.
Could you imagine how WoW would of turned out if you could only play the Horde if you goto level 30, lol
Maybe so, but having to pay to win doesn't sit well with me under any circumstance.
That's just it though, starting at level 25 is another massive mistake that they're making in the name of time. They can say that they'll bring the faction up to par with the Federation, but if they do this then we'll still only have half a faction. The Romulans will likely be done the same way too, unlocked at lvl 25 with their content.
You're only happy with it because it's better than what we've been having to deal with for the past year and a half. But half of the experience won't keep people around when the Federation has almost everything to offer that we do and more....:(
You're assuming they even roll a KDF.
But I agree, that's what matters most. Retention.
Of course one might take a look at the Federation and get jealous. Myself, I'm rather looking back at how the KDF looked when this game started, and compare that to what we have right now. Regardless of the announcements hinting at a change regarding that, the Klingon faction is still the stepchild of STO. But still, there was a development and continuous improvement.
Yeah, it's hard to gauge how people will react, but I *think* the KDF-limited second character slot will at least make people consider it. More than they do now, anyways.
I mean, at this very moment, you could not start a Klingon right away, too. You'd have to play until "Stop the Signal" at least. People who know they want to play KDF right from the moment they install the game will wait until they can, regardless at what level they unlock them. It's the people who are "just curious" that make the difference. These, too, will try out KDF whenever they get the option ... it's just that currently there isn't much of an incentive to stick around. And I think there's a good chance this may change.
Maybe it won't, who knows, but I hardly think it would get worse. And as I said, personally I'm having way more fun imagining that there's a silver lining at the horizon rather than bemoaning the possibility of dark clouds. Things could go either way, and I may be wrong, but there's no reason to stir up a bad mood about it just for the sake of ... well, stirring up a bad mood - especially with as little information as we have at this point of time regardine the fine details.
I and others aren't just trying to stir up a bad mood. I think that is a cheap way of ignoring most of the discussion and the points that many people have made. The Devs have said in their matrix and FAQ that they will make adjustments based on community feedback, and well, we are giving them feedback. Stormshade himself acknowledged that this will be rough on the Klingons.
We have a concern, which I think has been fairly well outlined. And at this point, the fine details don't make much of a difference. They have outlined most of the major points. A) Klingons unlock at level 25, b) Klingon characters will start at level 18-20, C) there will be some big Klingon update a later time, currently scheduled for 2012. What fine details can you imagine that would change things?
Yeah, sure there is a silver lining. Now new Klingon players will have less grind aggravation. However, do any of the other plans that the Devs have disclosed make sense to you? For instance, why have Klingons unlock at level 25 and then penalize the Klingon character 5-7 levels at generation? Why choose an arbitrary number like 25?
Second, if they are going to make a new tutorial for the Federation, why can't they go ahead and do one for the Klingons while they are at it?
Klingon development keeps getting pushed back for other projects. I don't for a second believe that they will get a Klingon update out in a timely fashion in order to help the KDF. They won't even commit to a season for it. Yet, they want our patience again. In the meantime, the Federation will continue to have a more developed, more well rounded faction with a ton more stuff in the C-Store. New players have no choice even but to make a Federation player, etc.
Bah, why am I repeating myself? If you don't want to be part of the discussion and feedback for the Devs, then don't. However, please refrain from mischaracterizing us as just stirring up a bad mood just for the sake of stirring up a bad mood. There are plenty of legitimate concerns floating around out there.
Also, I don't think the number was chosen arbitrarily - If they would allow to create a level 20 KDF character right away, many people could skip Fedplay because lots of players think that skipping levels is cool and the faster they get to endgame, the better. That said, right now, the Klingon faction still doesn't offer as much content as the Federation (and this won't change for at least a year I think, even if their announced intentions are accurate), so it makes sense that Cryptic may have a certain preference for new players looking at the UFP first and Klingons second.
Prioritization. I know it feels bad, but we are still a minority. And frankly, I'd rather have more stuff to do at endgame than some tutorial that I wish I could skip after having been forced through once. At least that's how I felt about the Fed one.
Still, apparently it is on their ominous list. Personally, I think there's more important stuff to address, and I do hope they'd get to do that first.
There's also plenty of hearsay and the creation of false claims that other people may take seriously - an example being that post where it was suggested that KDF players would have to pay for their content.
I am part of this community as well, and my approval of these changes is feedback, too. If you think I should not be allowed to voice it so that your concerns will evoke a stronger reaction from both other players as well as the devs, then this just strenghtens my point.
I am all for voicing criticism and have done so in the past, but in my personal opionion, this here is not constructive. However, I will honour your wish and leave this topic alone for now. I realize my input won't change your mind, and at the end of the day it's up to all of us individually on how we deal with the recent announcements.
The penalty is this: 1) new playes have to wait until level 25 to unlock the KDF, 2) they then start a new KDF character at level 18 or so. They new Klingon character is penalized 7 levels. Why? If they start at level 18, then unlocking them at level 25 is arbitrary. It makes more sense for Klingons to start at the same level they unlock. The stated reason for the level 25 unlock is because of the lack of Klingon content, but then they seem to be confident that there is enough to level from 18 to 45. Therefore, there doesn't seem to be a real reason to delay unlocking Klingons at level 25. It could be done at level 18. Does that make sense?
I get the prioritization point. However, it was enough of a priority earlier this year that we were supposed to get a tutorial over the summer. And I didn't want the tutorial for myself. I wanted it for new players that could have come in and started a KDF character right off the bat without the unlock. The Feds arleady have a tutorial and it is sufficent. They could have just tweaked it, if need be, and then made one for the Klingon faction. I feel like it is a misallocation of resources. But, that is just my opinion.
A fair point, and no denying that. However, your post seemingly dismisses EVERYONE's comments as stirring up a bad mood just for the sake of stirring up a bad mood. There is plenty of constructive criticism, suggestions, and feedback for the Devs. Just because feedback is not in agreement doesn't make it stirring up a bad mood just for the sake of stirring up a bad mood.
1) I never denied you were part of the community. 2) I never denied you your right to offer positive feedback. 3) Nowhere did I say you shouldn't be allowed to voice your positive feedback. To argue otherwise mischaracterizes anything I have said on these forums.
In my view, your post was dismissive of any negative feedback and written off as having no purpose other than stirring up a bad mood for the sake of stirring up a bad mood. That is hardly fair.
This is the fix they have to a side that has little content and lots of grind?...are they afraid that when F2P players come in and see that the low-level KDF have a serious lack of missions that they won't play?...apparently that is not the case as we have Klingon fans and they will definitely play just to get themselves a high-level Klingon....we have players now who grind and grind multiple toons just because they like the KDF faction....I don't see the logic apart from buying them more time and making it look like the KDF is in a better condition that it really is.....
This of course is my opinion....
Cryptic just wants to hide in what bad shaope KDF is from new customers until they, perhaps if ever, can fix them. I doubt that will happen any time soon or even next year as Cryptic will have more to do to create new ways to create revenue after going F2P.
Just thought about making a topic in the mainforum with ideas for KDF content.
I think the conclusion to take from the plan is that they want new players to come in and try out the well rounded faction and grow to like the game rather than risk having them try out the KDF first and decide it is horrible and quit. They are a business, and I can understand the logic in that.
However, if they just left it at a level 25 unlock, it would still create a content problem for the Klingons with levelling. Therefore, we have the level 18/20/25 (depending on what source you look at) starting point for new KDF characters. Coupled with that is a promise of a Klingon update/expansion that will fill in the lower levels, add a tutorial, and make the KDF the complete faction that the Devs and Players have always wanted it to be.
I've noted my concerns in a bunch of places. Those include not being part of the initial wave of new players that join the game, having new players get settled in to playing the Federation (by joining Fed fleets, buying Fed items in the C-Store, and being exposed to KDF perks, all before they have the chance to try the KDF), and not starting a KDF player at the level they actually unlock at. The Devs haven't really responded to them or similar concerns voiced by others other than to say that they know this isn't ideal, but it gives them a great opportunity, PWE wants to fully develop the faction, they want to develop the faction, and it is going to happen.
Given the track record, I'm skeptical. The KDF has been...promised might not be the right word, but at least lead to believe on multiple occassions that a lot of work was being done on the faction only to find out later that the intended work fell down the priority list. I'm thinking of Klingon patrol missions or DSEs in all sectors, the Klingon tutorial, being able to make a Klingon at level 1, new Klingon ships, additional Klingon missions, remastered Federation missions to be played on the KDF side, remodelled Qo'noS, the Klingon Academy, an equivalent to the Diplomacy system, Klingon costumes, the new Gorn models, etc.
Granted we got some of those (Qo'nos, the remodelled Gorn, some new Klingon ships, Klingon costumes, etc.), but usually well after the Federation got their version and rarely within the timeframe that was discussed by the Devs. Others (such as the Klingon academy, more Klingon ships, etc.), we are on the verge of getting, but again, well after we were lead to believe we would see them. Our Marauder system is tied to the DOff system, which we should see in testing any day now, but I'm not sure it really is an equivalent to the Diplomacy system. The diplomacy system had missions released with it. It does not appear the Marauder system will. Other things appear to be in the distant future, namely the Klingon tutorial, starting at level one, Klingon patrols and DSEs, etc.
Now I'm concerned that the Klingon update and expansion won't be all that it is being hyped up to be. The longer people have to wait for something, the more they expect out of the finished project. This long delay to create missions for Klingons is raising my expectations that they will all be of the quality of the FEs and the remastered episodes. Otherwise, I can't see why it would take so long to do them. In addition, they keep saying that the opportunity to release an update or expansion will fill out the KDF. To me that says they are adding more episodic missions, DSEs and patrols, more social hubs, etc. In other words, the whole nine yards that the Federation has. Not to mention, words like "expansion" imply huge releases of content. If they keep talking like that, and they don't deliver, the result could be disastrous.
I hope they are farther along than I think they are in creating this Klingon update/expansion. I hope they are really going to come through for the KDF. I hope we aren't finding out at this time next year that it isn't as big as they wanted, or that it is still in design discussion.
At any rate, those are my thoughts and my feedback to the Devs summarized in one place. I'm not going to discuss the topic much further anymore unless the Devs release more details about it or change the plan. The Devs seem to have made up their mind about the course for the KDF even taking into account the feedback they have received from the community. I'm going to try to enjoy the content that is out there and hope for the best for the KDF.
Personally I think they should find a way to reward us for having gone through the hellish KDF grind, and then do their level shift thing. That would be fair. That way it is now, they've nullified months of my personal efforts and That I do not like.
Tangentially, It annoys me that I've bought all the character races, and now they're going free. I don't understand what they're thinking. By nullifying the value of so many things I've done, they're actually making me less likely to put any money into the future.
They better give those of us that sank the money into getting the character races something special. AS much as I'd love to say Liberated Borg, I honestly think that those should remain with the LTS people, as badly as I want to get one myself.
What we need is the fullfillment of the promise that the L25 change for F2p is temporary and only in place until the Devs deliver a full KDF factinal experience that does not leave one wondering why even bother playing KDF.
If that fullfillment never happens or is greatly pushed back again, they might as well put a bullet in the faction as the fans will no longer trust Cryptic again.
have no illusions though, it will still be less than fun and a condensed version of the grind we have until said reformation arrives. That is the thing that may push the new players away from the KDF for a time.
I have to agree with Roach though. KDF is also my passion. If KDF isn't brought into a full faction mode within a year or so, it will be very easy to disbelieve Cryptic. And though shorter, the grind will still be a grind.