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Gorn/Orion/Nausicaan ships to come (finally)
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Just found this little gem over here:
Rejoice!
Heretic wrote:No, the ships being worked on are a set of lower-tier non-Klingon KDF ships - Orion, Nausicaan and Gorn, two each. The Gorn ships being worked on are science vessels (unsurprisingly), whereas the Orion ships are light carriers, and the Nausicaan ships are closer to Raptors, though they have their differences.
Rejoice!
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http://twitpic.com/6enzrk
http://twitpic.com/6emuxz
Just linked these pics to a friend. He linked this back. Cannot unsee.
Also, bonus points for Logan's cool workplace and his title choice.
(is it just me or is it saying "Bger" on that wall? in-house reference to the new Borg/V'Ger boss?)
Hey!
That movie was *awesome*.
"Anybody else want to negotiate?!"
Oh well, maybe down the road perhaps. Just glad to see more non-Klingon ships getting added to the KDF
I concur, these species should at least feel like they have actual navies which means an assortment of different ship classifications.
Gee no wonder they lost their war with the Klingons, apparently they only make science ships for their fleet!
Come on people there is a reason that the Klingon faction has no science ships, it's because the races making up the KDF have no interest in science! Especially not the Gorn!
Anyone else agree with me?
-Quiiliitiila
Consider this:
The Gorn in TOS managed to overload Spock's tricorder by feeding its own impulses back into it.
"Science" in this game does not equal "research", it equals electronic warfare.
Also how many Gorn did we see?
Two.
One was the captain of what appeared to be a warship, the other was not actually a Gorn from our own universe but from one where even the protagonists enjoy torturing and backstabbing each other.
You want to base your conclusions on that?
Also here's the usual question when someone comes up with the usual "they are brutes/warrios/criminals not scientists/engineers" BS:
If the entire species consisted entirely of people like the one or two examples we ever saw of them, they'd still be sitting in caves or on trees trying to figure out how to sharpen a stick.
Quit the racial stereotyping based on "evil=dumb" or "non-Federation=dumb" will ya?
BTW: why should the fact that the ships the Gorn get right now represent their entire navy?
I've RP'ed a Gorn scientist since OB and I see no problem with it at all.
The problem I have is staring off a Gorn toon with 3 ground traits
It doesn't have to make sense (cents) to make dollars, and I'll be getting each. Great job guys! TYSVM
I think your interpretation of the Gorn might be a bit narrow minded. The Gorn are an intelligent civilized species more interested in self defense than aggressive conquest. "Fleet Support" vessels make sense for the Gorn, as they do for almost any civilized faction in the Galaxy.
Having said that, I'm a little annoyed that science vessels are the ONLY Gorn ships we see. Nausicaans being restricted to "escorts" I can sort of see, the "Nausicaan Navy" has never been a factor and the "Nausicaan Union" has never been a galactic player, but the Gorn Hegemony fought the Klingons to a stand still for years, which means a balanced, versatile navy capable of meeting the Klingons head on. It certainly means that they'll need more than Fleet Support ships.
You said it much better than I did, I suppose my annoyance is with the fact that the only Gorn ships players get to fly are science vessels, when I said it makes up their fleet, I meant it only in the fact that player ships are supposed to represent the most top of the line vessels in that particular factions arsenal.
I never said that the Gorn were stupid or narrow minded, I said that they were large, brutish and warlike, which is true as we hold it to STO and STOs take of the Gorn. The Gorn are my favorite species in the Star Trek world, I know they are intelligent and cunning, but they never struck me as a race that spends their time making top of the line ships intended for electronic or scientific warfare. Perhaps it would've been more prudent of me to say that the Gorn were not the best choice for the science aspect of the KDF.
Quiiliitiila
No, since they don't look like you they must be stupid?
Also the TOS Gorn had many weapons that they invented and even traded to the Feds TOS Era Weapons
I still want to see an actuall Klingon sci ship.
This is why Klingons essentially behave like wild barbaric vikings (in the eyes of other species) - their culture was "not yet ready" to develop a scientific spirit and spacefaring technology.
Orions on the other hand have already surpassed their old days of civilization, the entire society having devolved into a semi-barbaric state of decadence, then manipulation, then piracy, simply because their culture had long surpassed its peak and they were unable to consolidate what they once had.
Nausicaans are even less stable as a society, essentially being based around individual mercenary or pirate bands venturing forth from their homeworld in search for challenges and profit. From what little we have seen on screen, they are entirely disorganized - we can only speculate how they got their hands on spaceships in the first place, though it may have been a similar case as with the Klingons, or (given how many Nausicaans are found as mercenaries in the outfits of other species) they got their first ships from the Ferengi or some other potential employer.
The Gorn are really the first and foremost KDF-allied species where science ships would make sense (they are warlike and expansionist, yet they have already proven their scientific aptitude on screen in a much stronger way than any of the other KDF species including the Klingons), and I do understand Cryptic's decision to "fan out" ship types and create a bit of diversity here. Sure, they could have just as well made all Gorn ships replicas of Klingon battlecruisers, and it would have fit just as much, but this way the interest in these ships will probably be a bit greater.
As has been pointed out, this does not mean that all Gorn ships currently active in STO's timeline are science vessels (in fact, several NPC encounters already dispell this assumption), and neither does it mean that, maybe, at some point in the future we couldn't get more ship variants for other branches. I'm sure that everyone, including Cryptic, would agree that every single species having a selection of ships for all careers on every tier would be the best scenario. It just isn't possible to roll them out all at once, so let's take one step at a time here, shall we?
I don't have much of a problem with it. And in terms of gameplay, I'm far more excited that the KDF are going to have science ships to level in.
They also play baseball.
I don't really agree with that assessment. The Gorn are obviously scientists. I've seen episodes (notably an ENT episode) with Klingon scientists. There are definitely joined Trill scientists. I bet there are also Nausicaan scientists. We know from the Albino storyline that there are Klingon and Orion scientists in bio-engineering. I bet there's Lethean scientists too.
I don't think people you guy's realize that I love the Gorn, I admit that I did not know all of the background that you all have so forcibly displayed and it had a severe impact on my previous rant.
I however want to clear one thing up... I NEVER said the Gorn were stupid, or un-evolved, I said they were brutish and warlike; which both statements are true in one way or another. It's just that my knowledge of the Gorn at the time led me to believe that they would not be the best choice for the KDF race to have the science ships.
-Quiiliitiila
Big, sluggish, and armed to the teeth with more weapons pointing out of every direction than you could shake a stick at.
Why I want to make a Gorn Cruiser armed with Plasma Torpedoes
*Toasts his coffee mug at Quiiliitiila*
well then I seem to have gravely misunderstood you.
Still only two examples of an entire species is hardly a good basis to found your judgement on.
Neither are examples that are enraged because a foreign power built a base on a planet in your (their) space.
One of my favourite examples of how badly one might misjudge a species would be if an alien landed on earth or watched humans or tried to use our fiction as a basis and it watched...George C Scott's portrayal of Patton.
Not exactly the most peace-loving or most tender guy, nor the most scientifically inclined guy.
Imagine you wanted to judge all humans based him.
You'd end up with a badly distorted picture.
Same applies to the Gorn, when you go by our universe alone you have one of them who is, just like Kirk, not exactly the last to draw his fists to solve a problem either.
Compare Kirk with his science/first officer and you already have a drastically different picture of how Starfleet is made up.
Now imagine how very diffferent the Gorn captain's science officer from "Arena" could have been had he/she been shown (meaning they had had enough money for a second rubber suit).
Also please keep in mind how very different the Gorn castes are.
It's described in the Star Trek Online Novel that the people on Cestus 3 were rather dumbfolded by the appaerance of members of the tech-caste Gorn whose description said the were tall slender, muscular, dextrous (with two thumbs) and fast.
It reminded me of a cross between a Velociraptor and a Ninja Turtle.
No, I don't agree with you. It doesn't make any sense, true, that the Gorn would be running the science vessels other than the obvious reasons of course.
The agreement the Gorn made withe the Klingons could include a limit to what types and numbers of ships they would be.
Generally a conquered race doesn't get much say in the really important business... But put them on science dutys! Now that would free up real wariors to fight!
"Come on people there is a reason that the Klingon faction has no science ships, it's because the races making up the KDF have no interest in science!"
... Really?
... How did they make their ships again? How did they make their weapons again?
"Science officer was a standard position aboard space vessels. Starfleet, Arkonian, Klingon, Romulan, and Vulcan vessels all operated with science officers. (ENT: "Dawn", "Impulse"; TOS: "Day of the Dove"; TNG: "The Next Phase"; DS9: "Soldiers of the Empire")"
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Science_Officer
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mara
It would be the smart thing to do.
That is likely the official answer. The unofficial answer, I expect, is that they didn't want to hassle with balancing a cloaking science vessel, which I still think will be AWESOME with a few buffs, so they picked a minor race with no history of cloaking technology and went with it. And now they are probably aligning the subsequent Nausicaan and Gorn ships so that players can make a character and stick with their favorite races ships the whole way through without a huge change in play style. In fact, with talk of changing the Marauder's special ability into a single hangar, the same can be said with the Orion ships.
These rationales did, in fact, factor heavily into our decisions in this area. Ultimately, we hope to be able to expand the selection of both Klingon and non-Klingon KDF ships past narrow specialties.
The initial logic for the Varanus being a Gorn vessel was that despite the Gorn appearing monstrous to human eyes, in the original episode in TOS that they appeared, the Gorn ship pwned Kirk's Enterprise hardcore with their scientific and technological superiority. The Klingons, on the other hand, have a spotty history at best with regards to honoring scientific achievements among their own people, as per episodes in Enterprise, for example.
With the Varanus at the top tier, the first priority for Gorn ships then becomes to make it possible for a player to engage in that playstyle vertically through their character's career. Once that has been done, then when we can start looking into broadening the types of non-Klingon KDF ships at all tiers.
It's all very confusing right now.
The new ships being added are at the Commander and Captain rank, so no worries.
The new ships are at Commander and Captain, so this just means that as a KDF character you could acquire out of the gate an Orion, Nausicaan or Gorn ship. So, if you wanted to you could fly a pure Science ship or carrier for your whole career.
I was wonder why During the stoked interview only Command and Captain ships where mention. The F2P KDF changes make sense.
Well I would prefer a Full PVE KDF faction before the game went F2P. I know deep down that it would not happen. This new move to start 25 makes more sense and covers a major concern I had for the game.
However if we start at level 25 we miss half of Commander, as a result we lose out half of the ships flying time
Would it not be better to start at level 20, people would be more willing to buy a ship they can use for a full rank and not just 5-6 grades.