test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Raptor manouverability... in need of a buff?
System
Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Raptors, for what survivability they have, seem far too cumsy to me. Fedside, my build's quite similar to what I'd use on the Raptor with my tac captain, but I've got more survivability AND more manouverability t keep cannons pointed where they need to be most of the time.
Am I "not getting" the point of the Raptor, or is it the ship that got left behind when turn rate buffs were handed out? The Defiant which is it's direct opposite has marginally less hull, and one less engineering console, but also has more shields. And that tends to be where an escort's survivability comes from as far as I can tell, that and not getting hit of course. Also, even with an RCS accelertor, I find the Raptor still doesn't turn as well as other escorts, except the Fleet escort which is obviously a much tougher ship.
Is there something I need to be doing to make the Raptor work? Would RCS accelerators stack?
Am I "not getting" the point of the Raptor, or is it the ship that got left behind when turn rate buffs were handed out? The Defiant which is it's direct opposite has marginally less hull, and one less engineering console, but also has more shields. And that tends to be where an escort's survivability comes from as far as I can tell, that and not getting hit of course. Also, even with an RCS accelertor, I find the Raptor still doesn't turn as well as other escorts, except the Fleet escort which is obviously a much tougher ship.
Is there something I need to be doing to make the Raptor work? Would RCS accelerators stack?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
seriously, tho.
I fly a Raptor with my Tac, with an all cannon/turret layout and have no trouble keeping the cannons in the 45 deg arc. Only vs the most manueverable of ships, like fighters, is there any problem.
It's kinda like any other ship, you really need to be spec'd out in it and it'll improve it's perfomance greatly.
And like any console, they'll stack, but with reduced effects per console.
and I don't use one....
raptor is 15, defiant is 17. but where the raptor pivots or turns is the very back of the ship were the impulse engines are so when your trying to point your nose at something it takes longer then a fed ship that had its pivot point in the middle of the ship. feels more like 13 or 14 because of that
all the escorts except the defiant have a turn rate of 15, but its that turn axis that makes or breaks its actual turning ability. as far as im concerned, that eng console the the defiant is missing is filled by an invisible mk XV turn rate console to account for its 17 rating, so really nothing is lost
When I first tried out the raptor, I was surprised at how well it turned, considering how much I've heard on the forums here that it turns so poorly.
The defiant might have more shields, but the raptor has more hull. Once again, it's a wash. I like flying the raptor more than the defiant because it does not have to pay for its cloak by losing an all important eng console; but instead, because it's a klingon ship, it gets cloak by default....and I love my cloaking devices.
Edit:
Not to mention, the raptor has more crew, but that advantage is probably marginal since crew don't seem to matter that much.
We're getting the pivot point on the raptor fixed, btw. I'll ping Logan about where that is on his schedule.
of course I have to Patch give me 5 min
I am turning at 3.0/sec
I am doing that by: (Drum Roll!!!!!)
Max points in
Starship command
Combat Manuevers
Battle Strat.
Quin Heavy Raptor
+25% Ftr from a Rcs
+18 Ftr from Hyper Eng.
Keep in mind that Both my eng. and RCS are lvl 8 (I know Klink ships get all the junk)
so I can get it lower prob. :eek:2.5 or 2.0
IF compare that to my maxed out Vice Adm. Star cruiser thats turing at 18/sec by the time it turns 15 degrees I am done a full 360 turn with 6 sec to spare.
Thanks
zevermoon
Very good to know, thank you.
There we go, everybody happy now? ^^
Logan was asking if by any chance you knew exactly which raptors this was happening on? That would speed it up a lot on his end.
Thanks!
Qin Raptor.
Though I dont think that the adjustment will be enough. I would consider bumping the turn rate up to 17 to match the defiant as well, otherwise I still dont think people will be using it, especially when they can easily just go fed and get the superior defiant. Its pretty much universally agreed upon that the Raptor is the worst escort in the game (in contention with the Garumba). At the very least it would be on par with the defiant, its fed equivalent.
well, basically all of them. i honestly kind of like that it pivots from the very back, those engines with the maneuvering fans look like they handle all the maneuvering and thrust so it pivoting there is kind of accurate.
i don't think that needs to be fixed really, but maybe something else like giving it (tier 5 qin i guess) a base 16 turn rate to make up for how much harder it is to point your nose at things, or maybe the best escort shields along with the best escort hull. every ship being a clone of each other is no fun, and giving everything different advantages is harder to balance, but i think better for game play in the end
Your way off by about 4.8 points try ah 28.2 at max speed.
I also messed up my posting for my star cruiser at max speed in the Vulcan system it was doing 12.2
Hey no ones perfect.
Edit:
It depends upon engine power too. My tac/defiant runs at 45 engine power, my eng/defiant & tac/raptor are both at 50 engine power.
I would be willing to lose that extra 3000 hull to have the same shields as a federation escort.
At the very least, changing the pivot point fixes the biggest problem that the raptor has.
For the time being I would fix the pivot, I say fix it incrementally do not over do it I would prefer and changes to buff keep it under performing then over because the push back to nerf it after it has been over buffed causes a fire storm.
The pivot (turn axis) tends to favor the feds the most because of the way those ships are built, up and over as opposed to out like the KDF ships.
In actuality the Raptor is almost more a frigate than a escort. But if its going to be classed an escort it needs to be somewhere between FE the which is more or less the console layout it uses and the defiant which is the Boff layout it uses.
I would even give the BoPs a once over on their turn axis point I still find it hard to believe the MVAM gamma section which is longer turns better than a BoP
I don't like to sit there and hammer a ship with a escort. I perfer hard strong front pass with Tac beam, rapid fire cannons, 4 torps, then a hard 180 turn with targett shield 2 followed by scatter fire, and more torps.
I tend to close out dmg ships in PVP so i'm really the last to decloak
I keep one cannon as a 180' just in case you can out turn me.
For example a defiant is above me at 7km and is fly at a down slop, Iam pointed up moving in reverse going at a downslop. The defiant can still fire cannons I can not.
Why is this we both have the same dual cannon arcs?
then throw in the longer radial distance and the thing turns slightly better than a sci ship on the fed side of course not including the nebulizer.
Oh, fantastic. The Raptors always felt odd to fly because of the weird pivot point being at the back of the ship and not center-ish.
Will this also apply to the Alpha section of the MVAE? That has it's 'pivot point' at the very aftmost point of the saucer, making it also feel very odd to fly.
IIRC, when it comes to the MVAM alpha problem, its because the pivot point is were it was on the whole combined ship, along with the shield ring too. apparently the alpha section pivot point cant be adjusted without adjusting were it is for the whole ship, so its unfixable currently.
I think that many outstanding pilots of Defiant like for example Hale or Yak would be pleased....and they would spend more time on the dark side
I do think bumping up to 16 on the turn rate would be fair, most of the survivability of a 'scort comes from the BO powers, not the base stats currently, and I really feel to warrant having just two eng and sci powers it needs manouverability almost as good as the defiant (but not *as* good because it's got the extra console), but better than the more durable escorts. This was my biggest issue, fighting Defiants. But it turns like an FE, but lacks that kind of survivability, and an ensign tactical slot really doesn't add much to the mix in my experience compared to the benefits of an additional enginer or sci power. I'd never fly Defiant for it's bof layout but because it can cloak and outmanouver anything that's not a BoP.
By comparison, the KDF Raptor, being the only free escort they have access to, is highly under used because it's got a bad reputation for it's handling, which may or may not be justified having read this thread. I'll spec into one on Tribble and let you guys know how it goes, I gotta admit, the benefits of speccing into a ship class slipped my mind momentarily when I posted this, but even then, it felt more sluggish than my AE which is also more manouverable, or certainly feels it.
That would be great. I don't know about the other tiers, but the tier 5 Raptor is the issue I am aware of.
I kind of agree with Captain Data that we should start with the pivot point first and see how that goes. I could see adding maybe 1 point, but to boost it up to the Defiant's turn rate without costing a console slot would be bogus.
The cloak on the defiant is its special ability. Feds are not "supposed" to have cloak, and the defiant pays for it through the console. I see no reason why the raptor should not be equivalent to the defiant + have the extra console - thats the bonus for being a klingon ship.