So we know that STFs are being remastered and from what I've read so far, they look like they're going to be nerfed and be a lot easier. Now there's a part of me that understands why this is happening, because certain players don't have the time nor want to put in the effort to completing these missions. I completely understand wanting to go through these missions, reading the text, etc. without having to deal with finding finding team mates, playing one mission for an hour or more, etc. STFs can be headaches, I can see that.
However, there's a huge part of me that loves the idea that the Borg set is almost like a trophy. To me,. when I see someone with the borg set, it says "Yeah, I beat all the borg STFs because I'm awesome", those players stand out to me. Other trophies don't feel like real trophies, because a.) you don't really show them off since they're in your ship interiors and b.) those trophies are achieved by stupid things like flying through a hole in a rock.
People flying around with the borg set says that these players really worked hard and used team cooperation and strategy to achieve these, it says something about the player. But after the STF revamp they're going to be viewed just as meaningless as FE rewards: "Oh cool, you took a few minutes out of your time to do something everybody else can do easily."
I know my post sounds somewhat condescending and I apologize greatly for that, that's not my intention. i completely understand that people have lives and don't have time to mess around with the STFs as they currently are. But I personally like to be able to show off my achievements for my hard work and like to see the hard work of others as they fly through space. If you think that the STFs are too hard or difficult and not worth the borg set, then fine, don't do them.
It would be like if you and I worked at the same company, same position, but you worked twice as hard as me but we both got raises. Why should you work hard or challenge yourself when it really doesn't make a difference?
But there's more to it than just rewards and trophies, it's the fact that the completion of these missions is what separates the men from boys.
I'm not saying don't continue with remastering these missions, I'm just saying the really good, hard working players should be compensated for their efforts, and playing on Elite doesn't cut for that for a few reasons. The main reason why Elite doesn't do that justice is because your chances of getting something worth playing elite is zero to none, most of the time I just find stuff that's just like "Yeah, I guess I could sell this for a few thousand on the exchange".
If your going to make STFs easier, thus nerfing it, then you should nerf the rewards, make them uncommon. Make the VA STFs as difficult as they are now but with the purple versions.
My whole rant here isn't just towards STFs though, I think we should have a lot of events (including the upcoming borg) that really pushes player's skills and make them work with others.
About a year ago i beat the CE, and honestly, it was the most epic thing I've ever done in STO. It took a long time, there were over 30 players of different ranks pounding on this thing, the CE actually felt like it threatened the galaxy and starfleet had sent every ship possible to try to stop this thing. I love the FEs, the STFs came close to this kind of epicness, but this is by far one of my best times in STO. I love this game but I feel the challenge dropping more and more, not because of experience, because everything is being made easier. I feel there is no difference from a player who plays an hour or two a day compared to someone who really grinds and takes the biggest challenges and plays for hours on end.
The only thing that disappointed me about the CE is I got NOTHING to show except for a weapon battery.
In summary, I want to see more epic events that draw everyone together, hopefully the borg would do this. Honestly, I hope there will be a new borg cube that I'm going to fight alongside dozens of other players, KDF and starfleet alike, and I hope iust takes at least an hour to defeat. However, I think we should get some kick *** rewards for doing so, something that says "I was there, and I fought long and hard!"
On Normal they're supposedly slightly easier; on Elite they're supposedly much harder then they are currently. Pick your poison (And I always play Elite myself - and will do so on the revamped STFs whenever possible.)
Well as far as I know drops do scale with difficulty, but the rewards don't.
I'm honestly not against them nerfing the missions, but I am against the idea of players getting the same rewards from the STFs as people who work for them.
I don't see the purpose of making an easy and difficult versions of these missions, hardly anybody is going to play the harder ones, why? Because there's no reason to if they can get the same reward on easy, it's the same reason why hardly anybody plays the VA version of the STFs. It's going to be nearly impossible for players such as myself to find a team that's want to do the harder versions.
Again, I'm not against making these missions easier, I'm just against the easy version having the same scale of rewards, and no drops don't count. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't care about 90% of the things I find in drops, even on Advanced or Elite. I can craft things that are better than those drops.
With the way things are going, I'll soon have no incentive to do those missions.
STFs were always considered as the mother of all mission types to me, and that';s getting ruined.
I realise that you've been fairly reasonable about presenting your opinion here, but I'm going to pick on you regardless. Picture, for a moment, your least favourite aspect of MMO gameplay; the thing that makes you groan inwardly every time you're forced to do it in order to progress. Got that feeling in your mind? OK, now all the best gear in the game is gated behind that gameplay.
Now, can you understand that quite a lot of people feel the same way about "raid"-style gameplay? Can you also understand that if you gate the best gear behind only a single type of content, players who wish to compete in other areas such as PvP are required to engage in that content, and this frustrates them?
There should always be multiple different methods of acquiring an item in any game, one for every play style; and if one play style is "easier" than another, and you hardcore, badass, hoo-ah jocky-jock types don't like it, I'll say to you what you say to everyone else in other games; tough, suck it up, deal with it etc.
I realise that you've been fairly reasonable about presenting your opinion here, but I'm going to pick on you regardless. Picture, for a moment, your least favourite aspect of MMO gameplay; the thing that makes you groan inwardly every time you're forced to do it in order to progress. Got that feeling in your mind? OK, now all the best gear in the game is gated behind that gameplay.
Now, can you understand that quite a lot of people feel the same way about "raid"-style gameplay? Can you also understand that if you gate the best gear behind only a single type of content, players who wish to compete in other areas such as PvP are required to engage in that content, and this frustrates them?
There should always be multiple different methods of acquiring an item in any game, one for every play style; and if one play style is "easier" than another, and you hardcore, badass, hoo-ah jocky-jock types don't like it, I'll say to you what you say to everyone else in other games; tough, suck it up, deal with it etc.
Who cares? If they want the best gear they can work for it like everyone else. To get the best gear in the Final Fantasy Games, I've put over 100 hours into getting it per game. I'd do the same thing on WoW if my idiot brothers' would stop deleting my character.
I've done the STFs multiple times as team leader and as a member of a team, and I've had and seen people quit because the STF wasn't done in 45 minutes to an hour. I led one Infected RA run that had everyone, except me, quitting before we even destroyed the Transwarp Gate. Reason: It's taking too long. Boo Hoo. You want the best gear? Then work for it, and follow the leads orders because he/she knows how to get you through it fast.
Who cares? If they want the best gear they can work for it like everyone else. To get the best gear in the Final Fantasy Games, I've put over 100 hours into getting it per game. I'd do the same thing on WoW if my idiot brothers' would stop deleting my character.
I've done the STFs multiple times as team leader and as a member of a team, and I've had and seen people quit because the STF wasn't done in 45 minutes to an hour. I led one Infected RA run that had everyone, except me, quitting before we even destroyed the Transwarp Gate. Reason: It's taking too long. Boo Hoo. You want the best gear? Then work for it, and follow the leads orders because he/she knows how to get you through it fast.
Deja Vu. This was discussed to death a while back. Seems people still want to be given free rewards with little work it seems.
Too bad Cryptic will most likely cave and nerf STFs. Sigh. If anything - for those that "supposedly" want a nerf to STFs for the story (rolls eyes) and not the rewards (yeah, right), Cryptic should make an easy mode where they get a green item as final loot reward, and not borg piece. That way, those that want the story can see it, while the people that actually work for it get rewarded, since the Borg set remains only winnable with current or even harder difficulty STFs.
Cryptic, don't take the one only semi-challenging thing in the game, please.
I think the pug version rewards should be superior or blue. The elite setting should have epic rewards or purple. It doesn't seem right that the rewards would be the same. After people play the normal versions enough they could move up to elite STF's.
ive got to say i agree with the OP, i have the full borg set and it took me months to get it (PuG's can be a pain).
Now if they NERF stf's and players get the full reward simply by being there well thats a slap in the face for everyone who sat there with patience learned how to beat the missions and lost a lot of time.
sure make it easier but change the reward! things like the borg set are cool so make it on the hardest setting you get the sets or even have a different set for the difficulty you get the best one on hard a blue on medium and a basic on easy.
I cant help but feel this could really wreck the stf's if done wrong for those who have finished them remember the feeling when you first beat cure i remember it well it was epic the pug i was with was happy as laughing and joking.
If they became easier cause of haters who dont want to give some effort welll.... stf's were meant to be the end level game for experienced player groups not something you can solo
i have done them they are not hard at all and i am not one of those elite players
i have lead teams in all of them
i do understand braking them apart for players who dont have the time to run the hold misson,
but i dont want to pick 4 or 5 missons to run one of these.
the rewards for the highest setting should be way better than any of the other rewards
and yes i do think that rewards in (hard) missons should be way better than any other rewards
Here I thought I unsubbed from wow and its legions of...well better stop there.
I do not know the state of pvp nor do I particularly care except for this: some people are good at pvp and abysmal at pve. Some are great at space combat and abhorrent at ground combat. Some people are just kickass players in every aspect. Now explain to me why I should have to run a pve elite ground map so I can be on equal footing for pvp or to trick out my ship? So you can feel special? What you need mommy to give you a gold star to know you're good? You don't need a big flashy sign over your head for the people that matter to know your good.
No I haven't run the stf's. I'm too busy/ lazy to join a fleet and give it the dedication it deserves. I don't care if I never see my Borg set because my aegis is good enough for me.
Christ, at least wait and see what gozer does to them before you QQ
Here I thought I unsubbed from wow and its legions of...well better stop there.
I do not know the state of pvp nor do I particularly care except for this: some people are good at pvp and abysmal at pve. Some are great at space combat and abhorrent at ground combat. Some people are just kickass players in every aspect. Now explain to me why I should have to run a pve elite ground map so I can be on equal footing for pvp or to trick out my ship? So you can feel special? What you need mommy to give you a gold star to know you're good? You don't need a big flashy sign over your head for the people that matter to know your good.
No I haven't run the stf's. I'm too busy/ lazy to join a fleet and give it the dedication it deserves. I don't care if I never see my Borg set because my aegis is good enough for me.
Christ, at least wait and see what gozer does to them before you QQ
Who says you have to run Elite PvE to be good at PvP? You can go through PvP with Green Mk X gear and do fine. Throw on the Aegis set (which you can easily buy or have someone craft for you), and you're even better off.
I don't PvE at all (beyond running the STFs to get the Borg gear once on each toon), and I do fine at PvP.
If there's one problem at Cryptic, it's that everything in-game is poorly communicated.
The devs are great--on the forums--but the game itself (from tool-tips, to mission/currency data, to something as simple as boss fight "tells" are either bugged or insufficiently documented).
Hopefully, Gozer's pass on these STFs fixes issues where the designer's intent isn't being conveyed well to the players.
Yes this is accurate. I'll give an example: the other day...I mean 4 days ago, literally...I was able to claim the free shuttle from Tribble testing SEASON 3 because I didn't know I had it.
It wasn't until they upgraded the CStore that I saw the item sitting there waiting for me to take it.
Example:
"i will give you $x amount of money to run 5 miles."
"oh you can't run 5 files, just walk through that door and i will give you the same amount of money."
(please note: I know people are outside the box on what i am about to say. i know not every one does what i am about to say. thank you)
This is something i have been dreading since before the game launched.
allot of players in this game (not all but allot) are Startrek fans first. and This is a good thing but Startrek fans play single player games and know / like the Single player game style. but this is a MMORPG. it requires Grouping, teamwork, Study, thinking, and a goal to drive to. how ever people with the single player game mind set. don't group, as a result don't like teamwork or will not work in a team.
I built my Fleet with allot of help from my friends and fleet mates. with out them my fleet would not exist. with out my fleet that i help and got help from, I would not have the full borg set. I find that my fleet (and fleets in general) are a good social / game play help dynamic.
I understand people have bad experiences with grouping and being in a fleet. but when you find the right place. it is the best thing in the gaming word to me. and i used to be a solo "i hate grouping" player before i got sick of it and sucked it up and started grouping and i never looked back.
Thank you for you time. i don not intend to put any one down or say thay are doing it wrong becouse they are not. it is your $15 do with it as you please. i am just saying my views, how i enjoy my game time.
Yes this is accurate. I'll give an example: the other day...I mean 4 days ago, literally...I was able to claim the free shuttle from Tribble testing SEASON 3 because I didn't know I had it.
It wasn't until they upgraded the CStore that I saw the item sitting there waiting for me to take it.
Here's a clearer example:
The upcoming LFG group features, in part, addresses the poor UI design that hides the social pane which, itself, was poorly designed and implemented. Burying a feature deep in the interface is not a great call and one that's been looked into since launch.
Even the queues could've been separate tabs within the same window, taken out from the GUI's drop-down arrow and made available for everyone on the top level of the UI. Some people don't even realize that drop-down menu queues exist--they still think you need to fly to the planets to enter the Queue.
The interface is a low priority with the game's need for content but it seems like merging some of these items and pulling out from submenus in submenus would be greatly appreciated.
Cryptic designed STO for "casual players" to "casually enjoy". These "casual players" make up the majority of the player base that continue to subscribe to "casually" play STO. If you chase away these "casual" players because you push to have the game made longer, more challenging or even too difficult for them then you run the risk of alienating a majority of the player base which leads to no more STO.
Please bear this in mind when asking for changes to STO. Don't denigrate the "casual" players (like PuGs) who thru their subscriptions help to provide you with the game that you're asking to have changed.
I fully understand the "raider mentality" of "working" for your "epic lewtz" but just remember that there are others that just "play" STO for the fun of it.
Cryptic designed STO for "casual players" to "casually enjoy". These "casual players" make up the majority of the player base that continue to subscribe to "casually" play STO. If you chase away these "casual" players because you push to have the game made longer, more challenging or even too difficult for them then you run the risk of alienating a majority of the player base which leads to no more STO.
Please bear this in mind when asking for changes to STO. Don't denigrate the "casual" players (like PuGs) who thru their subscriptions help to provide you with the game that you're asking to have changed.
I fully understand the "raider mentality" of "working" for your "epic lewtz" but just remember that there are others that just "play" STO for the fun of it.
i understand what your saying, and im not asking for the whole game to be uber hard work for your loot style. The STF's are the only thing thats remotely challenging (apart from CE but thats another story) and comprises maybe 3% of actual game play. So the "casual player" has plenty to keep them entertained and the "raider mentality" people are kept happy too whats wrong with that? Just as you stated there are others that play STO too..........not just the casual player
Note: Im a casual player i only log on for a bit of fun every once in a while and decided i wanted the borg loot which is why i dedicated my time to the stf's
I don't mind a challenge, I crave one a lot of the time, but there's a challenge and there's finding out the enemy is something like 27 or more grades above you and being salughtered within seconds.
I don't want to become easier, but I don't want it to become harder either. A nice balance where the game's challenge will adjust to your level and how well you've doing is fine with me.
i dont think anyone wants the stf's to be harder. i just dont want them to be another mission you go through but something that you remember as a challenge.
This is a mob AI discussion more than anything else; that's what needs to be sorely upgraded. The challenge should lay in the adversary's intelligence more so than his hitpoint pool and/or DPS capabilities.
This is a mob AI discussion more than anything else; that's what needs to be sorely upgraded. The challenge should lay in the adversary's intelligence more so than his hitpoint pool and/or DPS capabilities.
There's only so much AI that you can code into a "fun" "game" and still manage to keep it "playable" by "humans".
And no matter what level of AI game programmers would come up with, "players" would come up with a plan of action to defeat the AI and share it with the world, (posting the tactics and hints in YouTube videos or on the forums or just take everyone as baggage on a fleet run-thru) making the upgraded AI useless. So why bother with coded AI?
Just make it the ultimate AI and assign "humans" as OpFor, in the case of the STF - Borg. That would basically turn the STF's into the ultimate PvP match which would then be followed by all the associated calls for "nerf" this and "buff" that to skills and abilities available to the OpFor.
Cryptic designed STO for "casual players" to "casually enjoy". These "casual players" make up the majority of the player base that continue to subscribe to "casually" play STO. If you chase away these "casual" players because you push to have the game made longer, more challenging or even too difficult for them then you run the risk of alienating a majority of the player base which leads to no more STO.
Please bear this in mind when asking for changes to STO. Don't denigrate the "casual" players (like PuGs) who thru their subscriptions help to provide you with the game that you're asking to have changed.
I fully understand the "raider mentality" of "working" for your "epic lewtz" but just remember that there are others that just "play" STO for the fun of it.
This is what people don't get...
Nobody is asking for the STFs to not be made easier, in fact i think it's great they're doing that. What I'm asking is for the players who play the harder version to get a special reward for it. Personally, I don't think people who plays the easier version of the missions should get Borg gear, and if they do it should only be a white or green version.
Edit: Also there's only 5 STFs throughout the whole game, that's not even a quarter of the content. Yeah the majority of the playerbase are only casual players and the game should be geared towards them, however, there's a large portion of hardcore sto players as well, should they not have sopmething to cater to them?
Unfortunately, you make a game hard and people wont play it.
Thats the business facts in the MMO world. You have to give options for everyone.
If you make something incredibly awesome and less than 10% of the people that can experience it, do, then you need to sit down and figure out what is wrong with what they have and fix it.
I've been playing this game since beta. I've tried to run STFs with seasoned hard core raiders. (Myself having ran hardmode raiding in WoW and other games). I've seen the same hardcore raiders quit this game because of how bad the layouts are on the STFs and the insane mundane tediousness of just getting to the boss fights in what are STOs version of Heroic Instances from WoW.
These are not raids. They are not laid out like them. They dont have the girth of bosses that require days to complete. Yet they have the difficulty of them.
They arent even really hard. Its just one slip up and there is zero forgiveness. These are just the trash mobs too. Boss fights are ok.
They really need two modes of play for these. Using the difficulty slider or something. I wouldnt mind being able to do these on a regular basis and I cant because picking up a pug on these is masochism.
Having various difficulties with the STFs would keep everyone happy. You would have your zergfest on hard. And everyone else would be able to experience the content.
I couldn't really care about the 'challenge level' of a mission, but I'm getting really sick of the lack of story driven content once we hit VA. TRIBBLE the foundry. I'm sure there are plenty of fun missions which may or may not work since season four, but I don't think as a near two-year subscriber that I'm asking too much for the devs to give us some "professionally" created content instead of Shlocking it off to a fan base which can be waaaay too much hit or miss.
This is becoming far more frustrating to me than a lack of challenge found anywhere in the game.
Unfortunately, you make a game hard and people wont play it.
Thats the business facts in the MMO world. You have to give options for everyone.
If you make something incredibly awesome and less than 10% of the people that can experience it, do, then you need to sit down and figure out what is wrong with what they have and fix it.
I've been playing this game since beta. I've tried to run STFs with seasoned hard core raiders. (Myself having ran hardmode raiding in WoW and other games). I've seen the same hardcore raiders quit this game because of how bad the layouts are on the STFs and the insane mundane tediousness of just getting to the boss fights in what are STOs version of Heroic Instances from WoW.
These are not raids. They are not laid out like them. They dont have the girth of bosses that require days to complete. Yet they have the difficulty of them.
They arent even really hard. Its just one slip up and there is zero forgiveness. These are just the trash mobs too. Boss fights are ok.
They really need two modes of play for these. Using the difficulty slider or something. I wouldnt mind being able to do these on a regular basis and I cant because picking up a pug on these is masochism.
Having various difficulties with the STFs would keep everyone happy. You would have your zergfest on hard. And everyone else would be able to experience the content.
i have no problem with having a slider (as long as it works!) but the rewards should vary depending on difficulty
i have no problem with having a slider (as long as it works!) but the rewards should vary depending on difficulty
Why?
I've seen people recommend greater rewards for greater challenge many times before but I've never really seen the actual logic behind it.
If you want the challenge then the greater rewards will work against that and make the game easier for you. And since you're playing at a harder difficulty level then you're probably better at the game and don't need an edge.
If you stink at the game and are getting smashed by enemies at the lower levels and actually need the help provided by those better items... you aren't getting them because you're playing at those lower levels.
I understand wanting to be rewarded for hard work, though this is a game. It probably shouldn't be work and if you're viewing it like that then there's probably some fundamental flaw there. Now, if you enjoy that hard work... well, why would you want to be rewarded for it? Isn't the hard work it's own reward since you enjoy it, and wouldn't those rewards which give you an edge then lessen the challenge and reduce your enjoyment?
Now, if were talking about, say, trophies then I could see it. If you're a competitive person and want to "show off your wins" then yeah, that makes sense. Some purely visual tokens that allow you your bragging rights but no real advantage in play makes sense. But these aren't the rewards we're talking about, are we? We're talking about gear. It's not like if you're playing basketball and your team is ahead at halftime anyone expects the opposing team's net will be replaced with one twice the size, making it easier for you to score against them as a reward for thumping them up until this point...
I've seen people recommend greater rewards for greater challenge many times before but I've never really seen the actual logic behind it.
If you want the challenge then the greater rewards will work against that and make the game easier for you. And since you're playing at a harder difficulty level then you're probably better at the game and don't need an edge.
If you stink at the game and are getting smashed by enemies at the lower levels and actually need the help provided by those better items... you aren't getting them because you're playing at those lower levels.
I understand wanting to be rewarded for hard work, though this is a game. It probably shouldn't be work and if you're viewing it like that then there's probably some fundamental flaw there. Now, if you enjoy that hard work... well, why would you want to be rewarded for it? Isn't the hard work it's own reward since you enjoy it, and wouldn't those rewards which give you an edge then lessen the challenge and reduce your enjoyment?
Now, if were talking about, say, trophies then I could see it. If you're a competitive person and want to "show off your wins" then yeah, that makes sense. Some purely visual tokens that allow you your bragging rights but no real advantage in play makes sense. But these aren't the rewards we're talking about, are we? We're talking about gear. It's not like if you're playing basketball and your team is ahead at halftime anyone expects the opposing team's net will be replaced with one twice the size, making it easier for you to score against them as a reward for thumping them up until this point...
This. I'm also fine with better drop rates and/or more drops for higher difficulty, but not better drops or rewards.
you know what i dont care anymore. I felt like i had really achieved something and was rewarded for the time effort and frustration (PuG's are a 2 edged sword) that it took to complete the stf's. but hey instead of having mission rewards why dont we just give people everything they want on starting :cool: no need to work or try just rock up and here have your dream ship the end :rolleyes:
but eh.... nerf em go ahead i wont say anthing more against them
I donno about you but i think that almost all of each STF is junk. Ive played and beat them all many times on 3 diff toons. Heres what it boils down to, if you get a group that doesnt listen the STF is completely and utterly impossible.
The lack of respawn points is a massive oversight that is just idiotic, why do we have to spend 2 mins jogging back to where we were, 1min is tollerable, 2-3 is just *8@(. As others have said just massing borg together doesnt make it a challenge.
Borg do not hide their nodes under a rock! Ok maybe they are part squirl and we just found that out. Only thing that was any good in the STFs was the puzzles. The bosses ranged from decent to omfg lame. Seriously force field domes that launch you 100m accross the map to your death?!
Also, the amount of time you have to sink into one STF run is over board for the loot you get. 2 hours or so for a standard cure run with a good team, and thats bypassing 1/2 the borg you could fight. STF need to take 45min-1hour on average with a decent team.
All fights need to be acomplishable by a team that has no sci/eng/tac. A group of 5 tacs should be able to complete it just the same as a group of 2 eng 1 sci 2 tac. The space part on the STF's can be solo'd which turns out to be a good thing sadly because people often drop from group or get dc'd and have to do the whole space part over again while the team waits.
STFs need massive overhaul from the ground up. Personally i think gozer should have let them finish the redo of borg space combat, aka borg ships adapting. I enjoy the stf's with friends but they can be a brutal a**kicking punishment sometimes, its not fun, its not challenging, its just bleeding fustrating.
Make them simple, and yet challenging, not long and fustrating.
Edit: Also there's only 5 STFs throughout the whole game, that's not even a quarter of the content. Yeah the majority of the playerbase are only casual players and the game should be geared towards them, however, there's a large portion of hardcore sto players as well, should they not have sopmething to cater to them?
i agree Taking away all good end game gear (or puting end game gear in other places as well) is the reverse of puting it all in endgame.
Subjectively, someone might not like rock-paper-scissors but you can objectively look at the balance there. The same cannot be said about pleasing people.
I dunno. I've always felt rock is OP. It needs a nerf.
Comments
On Normal they're supposedly slightly easier; on Elite they're supposedly much harder then they are currently. Pick your poison (And I always play Elite myself - and will do so on the revamped STFs whenever possible.)
I realise that you've been fairly reasonable about presenting your opinion here, but I'm going to pick on you regardless. Picture, for a moment, your least favourite aspect of MMO gameplay; the thing that makes you groan inwardly every time you're forced to do it in order to progress. Got that feeling in your mind? OK, now all the best gear in the game is gated behind that gameplay.
Now, can you understand that quite a lot of people feel the same way about "raid"-style gameplay? Can you also understand that if you gate the best gear behind only a single type of content, players who wish to compete in other areas such as PvP are required to engage in that content, and this frustrates them?
There should always be multiple different methods of acquiring an item in any game, one for every play style; and if one play style is "easier" than another, and you hardcore, badass, hoo-ah jocky-jock types don't like it, I'll say to you what you say to everyone else in other games; tough, suck it up, deal with it etc.
Who cares? If they want the best gear they can work for it like everyone else. To get the best gear in the Final Fantasy Games, I've put over 100 hours into getting it per game. I'd do the same thing on WoW if my idiot brothers' would stop deleting my character.
I've done the STFs multiple times as team leader and as a member of a team, and I've had and seen people quit because the STF wasn't done in 45 minutes to an hour. I led one Infected RA run that had everyone, except me, quitting before we even destroyed the Transwarp Gate. Reason: It's taking too long. Boo Hoo. You want the best gear? Then work for it, and follow the leads orders because he/she knows how to get you through it fast.
Deja Vu. This was discussed to death a while back. Seems people still want to be given free rewards with little work it seems.
Too bad Cryptic will most likely cave and nerf STFs. Sigh. If anything - for those that "supposedly" want a nerf to STFs for the story (rolls eyes) and not the rewards (yeah, right), Cryptic should make an easy mode where they get a green item as final loot reward, and not borg piece. That way, those that want the story can see it, while the people that actually work for it get rewarded, since the Borg set remains only winnable with current or even harder difficulty STFs.
Cryptic, don't take the one only semi-challenging thing in the game, please.
Now if they NERF stf's and players get the full reward simply by being there well thats a slap in the face for everyone who sat there with patience learned how to beat the missions and lost a lot of time.
sure make it easier but change the reward! things like the borg set are cool so make it on the hardest setting you get the sets or even have a different set for the difficulty you get the best one on hard a blue on medium and a basic on easy.
I cant help but feel this could really wreck the stf's if done wrong for those who have finished them remember the feeling when you first beat cure i remember it well it was epic the pug i was with was happy as laughing and joking.
If they became easier cause of haters who dont want to give some effort welll.... stf's were meant to be the end level game for experienced player groups not something you can solo
i have lead teams in all of them
i do understand braking them apart for players who dont have the time to run the hold misson,
but i dont want to pick 4 or 5 missons to run one of these.
the rewards for the highest setting should be way better than any of the other rewards
and yes i do think that rewards in (hard) missons should be way better than any other rewards
I do not know the state of pvp nor do I particularly care except for this: some people are good at pvp and abysmal at pve. Some are great at space combat and abhorrent at ground combat. Some people are just kickass players in every aspect. Now explain to me why I should have to run a pve elite ground map so I can be on equal footing for pvp or to trick out my ship? So you can feel special? What you need mommy to give you a gold star to know you're good? You don't need a big flashy sign over your head for the people that matter to know your good.
No I haven't run the stf's. I'm too busy/ lazy to join a fleet and give it the dedication it deserves. I don't care if I never see my Borg set because my aegis is good enough for me.
Christ, at least wait and see what gozer does to them before you QQ
Who says you have to run Elite PvE to be good at PvP? You can go through PvP with Green Mk X gear and do fine. Throw on the Aegis set (which you can easily buy or have someone craft for you), and you're even better off.
I don't PvE at all (beyond running the STFs to get the Borg gear once on each toon), and I do fine at PvP.
Yes this is accurate. I'll give an example: the other day...I mean 4 days ago, literally...I was able to claim the free shuttle from Tribble testing SEASON 3 because I didn't know I had it.
It wasn't until they upgraded the CStore that I saw the item sitting there waiting for me to take it.
Example:
"i will give you $x amount of money to run 5 miles."
"oh you can't run 5 files, just walk through that door and i will give you the same amount of money."
(please note: I know people are outside the box on what i am about to say. i know not every one does what i am about to say. thank you)
This is something i have been dreading since before the game launched.
allot of players in this game (not all but allot) are Startrek fans first. and This is a good thing but Startrek fans play single player games and know / like the Single player game style. but this is a MMORPG. it requires Grouping, teamwork, Study, thinking, and a goal to drive to. how ever people with the single player game mind set. don't group, as a result don't like teamwork or will not work in a team.
I built my Fleet with allot of help from my friends and fleet mates. with out them my fleet would not exist. with out my fleet that i help and got help from, I would not have the full borg set. I find that my fleet (and fleets in general) are a good social / game play help dynamic.
I understand people have bad experiences with grouping and being in a fleet. but when you find the right place. it is the best thing in the gaming word to me. and i used to be a solo "i hate grouping" player before i got sick of it and sucked it up and started grouping and i never looked back.
Thank you for you time. i don not intend to put any one down or say thay are doing it wrong becouse they are not. it is your $15 do with it as you please. i am just saying my views, how i enjoy my game time.
The upcoming LFG group features, in part, addresses the poor UI design that hides the social pane which, itself, was poorly designed and implemented. Burying a feature deep in the interface is not a great call and one that's been looked into since launch.
Even the queues could've been separate tabs within the same window, taken out from the GUI's drop-down arrow and made available for everyone on the top level of the UI. Some people don't even realize that drop-down menu queues exist--they still think you need to fly to the planets to enter the Queue.
The interface is a low priority with the game's need for content but it seems like merging some of these items and pulling out from submenus in submenus would be greatly appreciated.
Please bear this in mind when asking for changes to STO. Don't denigrate the "casual" players (like PuGs) who thru their subscriptions help to provide you with the game that you're asking to have changed.
I fully understand the "raider mentality" of "working" for your "epic lewtz" but just remember that there are others that just "play" STO for the fun of it.
i understand what your saying, and im not asking for the whole game to be uber hard work for your loot style. The STF's are the only thing thats remotely challenging (apart from CE but thats another story) and comprises maybe 3% of actual game play. So the "casual player" has plenty to keep them entertained and the "raider mentality" people are kept happy too whats wrong with that? Just as you stated there are others that play STO too..........not just the casual player
Note: Im a casual player i only log on for a bit of fun every once in a while and decided i wanted the borg loot which is why i dedicated my time to the stf's
I don't want to become easier, but I don't want it to become harder either. A nice balance where the game's challenge will adjust to your level and how well you've doing is fine with me.
There's only so much AI that you can code into a "fun" "game" and still manage to keep it "playable" by "humans".
And no matter what level of AI game programmers would come up with, "players" would come up with a plan of action to defeat the AI and share it with the world, (posting the tactics and hints in YouTube videos or on the forums or just take everyone as baggage on a fleet run-thru) making the upgraded AI useless. So why bother with coded AI?
Just make it the ultimate AI and assign "humans" as OpFor, in the case of the STF - Borg. That would basically turn the STF's into the ultimate PvP match which would then be followed by all the associated calls for "nerf" this and "buff" that to skills and abilities available to the OpFor.
This is what people don't get...
Nobody is asking for the STFs to not be made easier, in fact i think it's great they're doing that. What I'm asking is for the players who play the harder version to get a special reward for it. Personally, I don't think people who plays the easier version of the missions should get Borg gear, and if they do it should only be a white or green version.
Edit: Also there's only 5 STFs throughout the whole game, that's not even a quarter of the content. Yeah the majority of the playerbase are only casual players and the game should be geared towards them, however, there's a large portion of hardcore sto players as well, should they not have sopmething to cater to them?
thats not a challange that';s just tiresome
Thats the business facts in the MMO world. You have to give options for everyone.
If you make something incredibly awesome and less than 10% of the people that can experience it, do, then you need to sit down and figure out what is wrong with what they have and fix it.
I've been playing this game since beta. I've tried to run STFs with seasoned hard core raiders. (Myself having ran hardmode raiding in WoW and other games). I've seen the same hardcore raiders quit this game because of how bad the layouts are on the STFs and the insane mundane tediousness of just getting to the boss fights in what are STOs version of Heroic Instances from WoW.
These are not raids. They are not laid out like them. They dont have the girth of bosses that require days to complete. Yet they have the difficulty of them.
They arent even really hard. Its just one slip up and there is zero forgiveness. These are just the trash mobs too. Boss fights are ok.
They really need two modes of play for these. Using the difficulty slider or something. I wouldnt mind being able to do these on a regular basis and I cant because picking up a pug on these is masochism.
Having various difficulties with the STFs would keep everyone happy. You would have your zergfest on hard. And everyone else would be able to experience the content.
This is becoming far more frustrating to me than a lack of challenge found anywhere in the game.
i have no problem with having a slider (as long as it works!) but the rewards should vary depending on difficulty
Why?
I've seen people recommend greater rewards for greater challenge many times before but I've never really seen the actual logic behind it.
If you want the challenge then the greater rewards will work against that and make the game easier for you. And since you're playing at a harder difficulty level then you're probably better at the game and don't need an edge.
If you stink at the game and are getting smashed by enemies at the lower levels and actually need the help provided by those better items... you aren't getting them because you're playing at those lower levels.
I understand wanting to be rewarded for hard work, though this is a game. It probably shouldn't be work and if you're viewing it like that then there's probably some fundamental flaw there. Now, if you enjoy that hard work... well, why would you want to be rewarded for it? Isn't the hard work it's own reward since you enjoy it, and wouldn't those rewards which give you an edge then lessen the challenge and reduce your enjoyment?
Now, if were talking about, say, trophies then I could see it. If you're a competitive person and want to "show off your wins" then yeah, that makes sense. Some purely visual tokens that allow you your bragging rights but no real advantage in play makes sense. But these aren't the rewards we're talking about, are we? We're talking about gear. It's not like if you're playing basketball and your team is ahead at halftime anyone expects the opposing team's net will be replaced with one twice the size, making it easier for you to score against them as a reward for thumping them up until this point...
This. I'm also fine with better drop rates and/or more drops for higher difficulty, but not better drops or rewards.
but eh.... nerf em go ahead i wont say anthing more against them
The lack of respawn points is a massive oversight that is just idiotic, why do we have to spend 2 mins jogging back to where we were, 1min is tollerable, 2-3 is just *8@(. As others have said just massing borg together doesnt make it a challenge.
Borg do not hide their nodes under a rock! Ok maybe they are part squirl and we just found that out. Only thing that was any good in the STFs was the puzzles. The bosses ranged from decent to omfg lame. Seriously force field domes that launch you 100m accross the map to your death?!
Also, the amount of time you have to sink into one STF run is over board for the loot you get. 2 hours or so for a standard cure run with a good team, and thats bypassing 1/2 the borg you could fight. STF need to take 45min-1hour on average with a decent team.
All fights need to be acomplishable by a team that has no sci/eng/tac. A group of 5 tacs should be able to complete it just the same as a group of 2 eng 1 sci 2 tac. The space part on the STF's can be solo'd which turns out to be a good thing sadly because people often drop from group or get dc'd and have to do the whole space part over again while the team waits.
STFs need massive overhaul from the ground up. Personally i think gozer should have let them finish the redo of borg space combat, aka borg ships adapting. I enjoy the stf's with friends but they can be a brutal a**kicking punishment sometimes, its not fun, its not challenging, its just bleeding fustrating.
Make them simple, and yet challenging, not long and fustrating.
i agree Taking away all good end game gear (or puting end game gear in other places as well) is the reverse of puting it all in endgame.
I dunno. I've always felt rock is OP. It needs a nerf.