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Devs, please keep giving us challenges and don't give in to players who want it easy
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
So we know that STFs are being remastered and from what I've read so far, they look like they're going to be nerfed and be a lot easier. Now there's a part of me that understands why this is happening, because certain players don't have the time nor want to put in the effort to completing these missions. I completely understand wanting to go through these missions, reading the text, etc. without having to deal with finding finding team mates, playing one mission for an hour or more, etc. STFs can be headaches, I can see that.
However, there's a huge part of me that loves the idea that the Borg set is almost like a trophy. To me,. when I see someone with the borg set, it says "Yeah, I beat all the borg STFs because I'm awesome", those players stand out to me. Other trophies don't feel like real trophies, because a.) you don't really show them off since they're in your ship interiors and b.) those trophies are achieved by stupid things like flying through a hole in a rock.
People flying around with the borg set says that these players really worked hard and used team cooperation and strategy to achieve these, it says something about the player. But after the STF revamp they're going to be viewed just as meaningless as FE rewards: "Oh cool, you took a few minutes out of your time to do something everybody else can do easily."
I know my post sounds somewhat condescending and I apologize greatly for that, that's not my intention. i completely understand that people have lives and don't have time to mess around with the STFs as they currently are. But I personally like to be able to show off my achievements for my hard work and like to see the hard work of others as they fly through space. If you think that the STFs are too hard or difficult and not worth the borg set, then fine, don't do them.
It would be like if you and I worked at the same company, same position, but you worked twice as hard as me but we both got raises. Why should you work hard or challenge yourself when it really doesn't make a difference?
But there's more to it than just rewards and trophies, it's the fact that the completion of these missions is what separates the men from boys.
I'm not saying don't continue with remastering these missions, I'm just saying the really good, hard working players should be compensated for their efforts, and playing on Elite doesn't cut for that for a few reasons. The main reason why Elite doesn't do that justice is because your chances of getting something worth playing elite is zero to none, most of the time I just find stuff that's just like "Yeah, I guess I could sell this for a few thousand on the exchange".
If your going to make STFs easier, thus nerfing it, then you should nerf the rewards, make them uncommon. Make the VA STFs as difficult as they are now but with the purple versions.
My whole rant here isn't just towards STFs though, I think we should have a lot of events (including the upcoming borg) that really pushes player's skills and make them work with others.
About a year ago i beat the CE, and honestly, it was the most epic thing I've ever done in STO. It took a long time, there were over 30 players of different ranks pounding on this thing, the CE actually felt like it threatened the galaxy and starfleet had sent every ship possible to try to stop this thing. I love the FEs, the STFs came close to this kind of epicness, but this is by far one of my best times in STO. I love this game but I feel the challenge dropping more and more, not because of experience, because everything is being made easier. I feel there is no difference from a player who plays an hour or two a day compared to someone who really grinds and takes the biggest challenges and plays for hours on end.
The only thing that disappointed me about the CE is I got NOTHING to show except for a weapon battery.
In summary, I want to see more epic events that draw everyone together, hopefully the borg would do this. Honestly, I hope there will be a new borg cube that I'm going to fight alongside dozens of other players, KDF and starfleet alike, and I hope iust takes at least an hour to defeat. However, I think we should get some kick *** rewards for doing so, something that says "I was there, and I fought long and hard!"
However, there's a huge part of me that loves the idea that the Borg set is almost like a trophy. To me,. when I see someone with the borg set, it says "Yeah, I beat all the borg STFs because I'm awesome", those players stand out to me. Other trophies don't feel like real trophies, because a.) you don't really show them off since they're in your ship interiors and b.) those trophies are achieved by stupid things like flying through a hole in a rock.
People flying around with the borg set says that these players really worked hard and used team cooperation and strategy to achieve these, it says something about the player. But after the STF revamp they're going to be viewed just as meaningless as FE rewards: "Oh cool, you took a few minutes out of your time to do something everybody else can do easily."
I know my post sounds somewhat condescending and I apologize greatly for that, that's not my intention. i completely understand that people have lives and don't have time to mess around with the STFs as they currently are. But I personally like to be able to show off my achievements for my hard work and like to see the hard work of others as they fly through space. If you think that the STFs are too hard or difficult and not worth the borg set, then fine, don't do them.
It would be like if you and I worked at the same company, same position, but you worked twice as hard as me but we both got raises. Why should you work hard or challenge yourself when it really doesn't make a difference?
But there's more to it than just rewards and trophies, it's the fact that the completion of these missions is what separates the men from boys.
I'm not saying don't continue with remastering these missions, I'm just saying the really good, hard working players should be compensated for their efforts, and playing on Elite doesn't cut for that for a few reasons. The main reason why Elite doesn't do that justice is because your chances of getting something worth playing elite is zero to none, most of the time I just find stuff that's just like "Yeah, I guess I could sell this for a few thousand on the exchange".
If your going to make STFs easier, thus nerfing it, then you should nerf the rewards, make them uncommon. Make the VA STFs as difficult as they are now but with the purple versions.
My whole rant here isn't just towards STFs though, I think we should have a lot of events (including the upcoming borg) that really pushes player's skills and make them work with others.
About a year ago i beat the CE, and honestly, it was the most epic thing I've ever done in STO. It took a long time, there were over 30 players of different ranks pounding on this thing, the CE actually felt like it threatened the galaxy and starfleet had sent every ship possible to try to stop this thing. I love the FEs, the STFs came close to this kind of epicness, but this is by far one of my best times in STO. I love this game but I feel the challenge dropping more and more, not because of experience, because everything is being made easier. I feel there is no difference from a player who plays an hour or two a day compared to someone who really grinds and takes the biggest challenges and plays for hours on end.
The only thing that disappointed me about the CE is I got NOTHING to show except for a weapon battery.
In summary, I want to see more epic events that draw everyone together, hopefully the borg would do this. Honestly, I hope there will be a new borg cube that I'm going to fight alongside dozens of other players, KDF and starfleet alike, and I hope iust takes at least an hour to defeat. However, I think we should get some kick *** rewards for doing so, something that says "I was there, and I fought long and hard!"
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I'm all for having rewards unlocked by achievements (whether PvP, Exploration, STFs, Foundry, etc.) but there are many reasons why STFs are less-desirable, even to experienced raiders/instancers from other MMOs.
The devs are great--on the forums--but the game itself (from tool-tips, to mission/currency data, to something as simple as boss fight "tells" are either bugged or insufficiently documented).
Hopefully, Gozer's pass on these STFs fixes issues where the designer's intent isn't being conveyed well to the players.
Hmm yeah maybe what they could do is have Infected (easy) Infected (Medium) Infected (Hard) and only the hard gives the set part whel the Easy gives Very stuff and the Medium gives embalems or somthing, also what may work is make the set avalable for marks of valor (the STF coursence I think I got the name right) and not for the missions so if you play the missions alot you get the set not for a run tho on easy
The playerbase would likely ask for OP weapons and ships... seeing as how most of them don't understand the "nerf" of FAW or why Pengs need changed.
Agreed.
Designers have to understand they're making a balanced game first and pleasing fans second, not the other way around.
Unfortunately, that appears to be lost in translation as we've had glaring balance issues for months, yet the C-Store keeps popping out Costumes like [insert witty metaphor here].
Disclaimer for the Sensitive:
You are right, in capnlogans case as much as we want him to keep just posting, (and slowly delivering things) he obviously can't write code, or missions. We know this because simple posters on the forums obviously have no good ideas about the game, they are after all, just posters.
You see what I did there?
Really?
I could be wrong, and apologize for it, I after all don't hang out with them or know them and their capabilities first hand. Enlighten us more, we would ever be so much grateful....
Through achievements the way they are now as a result of Foundry grinds? Don't think so. It takes no challenge to auto-click kills in a map that spawns enemies over and over. So I say no to sets for accolades. And by this I mean the kill count accolades. Now, if they give accolades for completing missions more complex than pew pew pew...by all means reward that. But sets for kill counts? Never.
i disagree , the game should have been made for the fans who have been loyal to the IP for like 40 years now ,game balance is a falecey no mmorpg in existance can claim balance , well maybe wow but blizzard made everyone the same =p
What i mean by time is simply this if a stf is hard, but it only takes one hour to do, i can fail multiple times. Failing multiple times means i can learn from my mistakes and improve. Now if a stf is hard but takes 2 to 3 hours or more to do, then frankly thats a pointless item in the game that virtually no one will bother with, that has a RL.
The other aspect of the time element is, how long does it take a noob group to do? Meaning if it takes a noob group 2 to 3 hours or more to do then its still pointless. So hard or easy makes no difference, the concern is time.
I would also like to say i see someone with a ship full of Borg technology, it means vary little to me lol. I can go craft something that comes close. Thats the way i like it.
Isnt this going on with alot of aspects of the game these days? Everything is getting so easy that its not a challenge anymore to do anything in this game.
- Everyone can get the best stuff/gear without moving his butt. (I do not discourage people from getting nice gear, but if there is no challenge to it, why have Very rare items in the game? I mean, why not just remove it and keep ourselves with the commons. Uncommon isnt worth anything and can be thrown away out of the airlock.
- STF's are becoming crappily easy, no more fun in finishing a (challenging) where you can be proud of.
- Fleet actions are rediculously easy, some can even be solo'ed. (SB24 anyone?)
On top of that we get purple drops when we win the STF (Especially escorts with high dmg can easily win from the rest)
I'd say we go back to the old days.
For me having fun is having a challenge of doing something and get rewarded for doing my best. I hate to see users complain that STF's are too hard, etc etc.
Same for nerfing. People cannot win, people die too fast, reason is because of inexperience, solution -> Nerf.
What's next?
However, it's a lot easier to balance a game than it is to please all the fans--who love and hate alternating series, plot-lines, tones, actors, etc. The fans are far more fickle than the mechanics at work.
Subjectively, someone might not like rock-paper-scissors but you can objectively look at the balance there. The same cannot be said about pleasing people.
At no point in my post did I mention accolades. What I meant is completion of selected content, such rewards for the melee PvP areas coming soon or developer choice Foundry missions or Featured Series missions.
Ostensibly, completion of missions for gear is an accolade, in everything but the name.
i still disagre that balance can be achieved in a mmorpg . anyway the point is that fans should be given what they want aslong as there is a fun factor , i dont particulary care if its balanced , aslong as its not an i win button its fine with me =p
p.s. yay i am lifer
The STFs are just fine and changing them for a small minority that complains that they can't get the Borg set because they're too lazy to put in the time is stupid.
i dont think its lazyness man . more that alot of people dont want to put up with inevitable (oo my god you guys suck . i hate you all /ragequit) from immature players that comes with trying to pug it . me im 42 years old now and played games for best part of 13 years (mostly mmorpg) and i really dont want to hear that TRIBBLE getting pitched again lol
This. I'm waiting to see the end result of the STF redesign.
Well, if they at least make it so that on advanced in these STF's that death causes damages like in Advanced in other missions, I'd say then they are on to something. Heh Heh...where is my evil grin emote when I need one.:D
Most people don't have dozens of hours to spend on one mission and just want to have fun, don't punish them.
Some people have the time and want some challenge, satisfy them.
Come on Cryptic, it's not even that hard to do!
Well as far as I know drops do scale with difficulty, but the rewards don't.
I'm honestly not against them nerfing the missions, but I am against the idea of players getting the same rewards from the STFs as people who work for them.
I don't see the purpose of making an easy and difficult versions of these missions, hardly anybody is going to play the harder ones, why? Because there's no reason to if they can get the same reward on easy, it's the same reason why hardly anybody plays the VA version of the STFs. It's going to be nearly impossible for players such as myself to find a team that's want to do the harder versions.
Again, I'm not against making these missions easier, I'm just against the easy version having the same scale of rewards, and no drops don't count. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't care about 90% of the things I find in drops, even on Advanced or Elite. I can craft things that are better than those drops.
With the way things are going, I'll soon have no incentive to do those missions.
STFs were always considered as the mother of all mission types to me, and that';s getting ruined.
This. The difficulty slider needs to mean something as well, not just epeen points, which i do not care for.