So that was a 'No" on the cutting out the "moral outrage" part of your argument then?
Time to get back to reality here.
Cryptic isn't a government agency giving out aid, or a business hiring workers. They aren;t subject to Equal Opportunity when it comes to what sort of missions they develop for a freaking video game.
If you were ACTUALLY a minority in ANY WAY in real life, you couldn't possibly have the gall to make such an argument. Of all the people who have cause to rant about oppression of a minority, a video game fan ranks dead last.
Even worse, its not the "mean old feds" who are oppressing you. Some of us might try to talk some sense into you, but we don't make the decisions. Cryptic is a BUSINESS and as such they base their BUSINESS DECISIONS on what will keep the MAJORITY of their playerbase happy. If you don't think its LOGICAL to do that, you're completely out of touch. Its not only logical, its IMPERATIVE if a business wants to survive.
I wouldn't mind if they did a bunch of KDF missions. I LIKED the ones they did last year. But I do UNDERSTAND why they can't commit a lot of dev resources to KDF-only things, because I think about the situation reasonably, and not passionately.
This horse has been ridden into the ground, scooped up and strapped to a nuclear missile, launched into an asteroid. Then THAT ASTEROID crashed into a bigger asteroid, and then a volley of quantum torpedos was fired onto the remains. FInally, the tiny smear of the horse that remained was located and someone shot it with the new and improved Orbital strike.
The horse is dead, the question answered.
The content team will continue to focus Featured Episodes and the KDF will continue to receive as much extra dev time as they can fit in. Its what they have said for the past year now.
No Dedicated dev, no big push of KDF missions (until the schedule allows for it down the road) no miracle of content creation.
And not because the mean old Feddies say "No" - but because THAT is what makes sense to keep the largest percentage of players happy (and playing)
I don't expect "KDF players" to stop asking for more missions anymore than I expect the sun to rise in the west tomorrow. But I don't think its too unreasonable to expect it to be done without the doom-saying, the negativity, and the blame-game that so many of them gravitate towards.
So that was a 'No" on the cutting out the "moral outrage" part of your argument then?
Time to get back to reality here.
Cryptic isn't a government agency giving out aid, or a business hiring workers. They aren;t subject to Equal Opportunity when it comes to what sort of missions they develop for a freaking video game.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're equivalent, merely that there is in fact a moral argument to be made. Both in the majority vs minority comparison, and in the fact that we've paid (or are paying) just as much as you are. In fact, we're both paying for two Factions, and as of right now, we're not really getting what we've paid for.
If you were ACTUALLY a minority in ANY WAY in real life, you couldn't possibly have the gall to make such an argument. Of all the people who have cause to rant about oppression of a minority, a video game fan ranks dead last.
I am actually, in several ways. I'm not quite sure where the forum lines are on talking about this, so let's just say I'm covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (in two ways). So let me ask you this: has the oppressive majority ever been uncomfortable with their oppression, or is it always the minority who speaks up?
What would happen if it always took a majority for reforms to be made? I don't want to get political here, but I can't think of any major civil-rights legislation or ruling that came through because of a majority opinion, it was always a brave legislature or judge willing to do the right thing instead of the popular thing.
A majority does not gain moral standing by default. Never has, never will.
Even worse, its not the "mean old feds" who are oppressing you. Some of us might try to talk some sense into you, but we don't make the decisions. Cryptic is a BUSINESS and as such they base their BUSINESS DECISIONS on what will keep the MAJORITY of their player-base happy. If you don't think its LOGICAL to do that, you're completely out of touch. Its not only logical, its IMPERATIVE if a business wants to survive.
I wouldn't mind if they did a bunch of KDF missions. I LIKED the ones they did last year. But I do UNDERSTAND why they can't commit a lot of dev resources to KDF-only things, because I think about the situation reasonably, and not passionately.
You've laid the problem out then, haven't you? The majority will always preserve their status. every time the question of KDF content comes up, the Feds will shout it down.
No matter what the Feds get, there will always be more for them to demand. KDF players ask for leveling PvE, something vital for the survival of their Faction (and thus survival of the game), and the Feds can shout it down in favor of fluff, or a new ship, or some shiny new costumes.
No dedicated dev, no big push of KDF missions (until the schedule allows for it down the road) no miracle of content creation.
And not because the mean old Feddies say "No" - but because THAT is what makes sense to keep the largest percentage of players happy (and playing).
There has to come a point where you, as a Fed player, are told "No", told that for just a little while, you're going to wait so the KDF can get real content. Because if that doesn't happen, then the "schedule" will never allow for it. There will always be some other "thing" that Feds can demand for themselves in place of KDF content. Something they can insist is more important (because they're the big important majority).
Telling us to wait for the schedule to allow it is saying it will never come. And that's not acceptable.
Pure majority rule is mob rule, and mob rule is neither logical or just.
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Somebody pee in your coffee?
This is a video game, and I see nothing wrong with Katic's post. In fact, I whole-heartedly support it as thoughtful and professional...but your attacks and "shut the door" position on the topic really does dishearten me, because if that is how the Devs think (I do not think that they think this way, incidentally), then the game is in very dire straits.
Regardless of the player base, regardless of population numbers from a factional point of view, I have found Cryptic and the outstanding Devs that work there to be remarkably responsive to feedback. That is what Katic's post is - and it is not a rant about the KDF -- it is a thoughtful discussion about the future of the entire game.
In support of Katic's post, I would like to re-print one of the key questions that came up in the June 2011 "Ask Cryptic" post. I want to share it with those of you that may not have seen it because I think it clearly shows that Cryptic, and the Devs that are working Season 4 and Season 5 content recognize everything that Katic has stated, and that there does appear to be hope for the KDF. Here is the question/answer that caught my eye:
Q: Peregrine_Falcon Will the KDF get "anything" (paraphrasing) in 2011.
A (Mr. Stahl): The KDF are getting a remade starting Hub, a new KDF only Daily Ground and Space Fleet Action, Remade Gorn, exclusive KDF level 51 gear set (space and ground), their own form of assignments, their own unique duty officers, several new ships, and a releveled mission experience. Anything else is possible, but those are the tasks at the top of my priority list for KDF right now. The KDF slowly improves, but not as fast as the feds. The future could change this.
When people asked for Dabo it was a limited vocal group and the request was granted.
It was okay to ask and it was okay to get it ingame even though it was by far not everyone who wanted it.
When something like missions for the KDF are asked for it's not okay and the needs of the many
are mentioned are a logical reson against it.
What makes this request different from the other?
When people asked for Dabo it was a limited vocal group and the request was granted.
It was okay to ask and it was okay to get it ingame even though it was by far not everyone who wanted it.
When something like missions for the KDF are asked for it's not okay and the needs of the many
are mentioned are a logical reson against it.
What makes this request different from the other?
Content creators create content (missions, levels, maps, STFs, etc) and other people do minigames.
And it may have been a small amount ASKING for it, but its something new for each and every character (whether they use it or not)
Dev time spent on KDF is not something new for each character.
Read what I said carefully. Each Character, not each PLAYER.
Dabo: requested by maybe 5%, but useable by 100%
KDF mission: requested by 10%, useable by 10% (or 12, or whatever the ratio is now)
In short, you can't just consider the vocal fans, but the actual target audience of whatever you are creating.
I give up, keep playing the victim and blaming the mean ole feddies then.
You'll never get the support you want for a change like this. Keep trying though.
Don't know about you but this is the Klingon Gameplay Forum, the players that post on here are consumers and are not happy with the result, this game has been live for over a year, and instead of making content to appeal to both factions they have decided that the population on the FED side was bigger (becuase you have no choice but to play FED out of the gate) so they went with the path of least resistance.
Now how could someone with so much content look down at the KDF players when you infact would start a thread similar to Katic's if you as a FED player only had 18 missions and cookie cutter daily/exploration missions. What about if you didnt get your MVAM, Gal-X, Oberth, Vulcan ship, or your Multitude of uniforms. But instead we let you have the refits, vet awards, and gave you dual faction FE's to play.
Here we are in the alternate timeline of STO (From launch to now): STF/Dailes/FE's not included
KDF Content:
58 playable story line missions
Over 20 choices of uniforms and accessories
7 Shuttles (to include fighters)
29 Playable Ships (T1-T5)
FED Content:
18 Playable Story line mission
10 Choices of Uniforms
3 Shuttles (to include fighter)
19 Ships (T1-T5)
Now in that timeline you are a die hard feddie player, what do you think your reaction would be? Now we all know that you will shrug this off and pretty much try to make some kind of witty response, but be realistic you are a paying customer, and you want satisfaction.
Content creators create content (missions, levels, maps, STFs, etc) and other people do minigames.
And it may have been a small amount ASKING for it, but its something new for each and every character (whether they use it or not)
Dev time spent on KDF is not something new for each character.
Read what I said carefully. Each Character, not each PLAYER.
Dabo: requested by maybe 5%, but useable by 100%
KDF mission: requested by 10%, useable by 10% (or 12, or whatever the ratio is now)
In short, you can't just consider the vocal fans, but the actual target audience of whatever you are creating.
Except the target audience is every player. You think the devs want the KDF to stay a small portion of the player population? Of course they don't, they want as many players as possible. They want players to buy the game, a sub, and C-Store items.
I wouldn't mind if they did a bunch of KDF missions. I LIKED the ones they did last year.
Shows that people who desire KDF content number more than just the current KDF player Population.
How many KDF players have quit over the last year because there's nothing to do? How many potential players have looked into the game, seen the drought on the KDF side, and decided they weren't going to pay for two factions and receive 1 1/4? I know at least four. If they made Season 5 or 6 a KDF PvE extravaganza, I could bring in four more players the day it goes live, two of whom have said they'd go LTS.
Klingon content will bring old players back, and make the game that much more enticing to those on the fence, bringing new players in.
To Cryptic Dev's/EP's:
Want to create more KDF traffic create a KDF Q double XP week. That week will be for the KDF and KDF alone. If the PvE players do not wanna level by doing PvP, then offer that double XP week and watch the nebulas explode with T3 and below ships.
To Cryptic Dev's/EP's:
Want to create more KDF traffic create a KDF Q double XP week. That week will be for the KDF and KDF alone. If the PvE players do not wanna level by doing PvP, then offer that double XP week and watch the nebulas explode with T3 and below ships.
Excellent idea.
I know that during the One Year Anniversary and the double XP Weekend I saw more KDF lowbie toons around Qonos and the featured episode Sectors than ever before.
EDIT: I feel the need to clarify, it wasn't only lowbie toons, I saw quite a few ships of higher tiers going about as well, likely to build up Boff XP to retool their Boffs (just like the KDF player XP drought, it's hard to find Boff XP too).
Quick question for those who don't support the Goz working on the KDF in his spare time instead of mission revamps:
What would you support as a means of the KDF getting exclusive storyline PvE content?
The only reason I don't support Gozer working on kdf content in his spare time, is because I feel it's an issue that requires more attention than just the attention of 1dev's spare time.
Til we see kdf content get the dev attention it deserves, I'm supporting the Foundry. Kinda stings how we went from the "pvp faction"to the "make your own content" faction, but there's a lot of talented players making the best of it.
You want new kdf pve any time soon, that's where to look.
The only reason I don't support Gozer working on kdf content in his spare time, is because I feel it's an issue that requires more attention than just the attention of 1dev's spare time.
I agree completely, but as I've mentioned before, it's our last bastion of hope, everything else has been shot down, over & over.
Til we see kdf content get the dev attention it deserves, I'm supporting the Foundry. Kinda stings how we went from the "pvp faction"to the "make your own content" faction, but there's a lot of talented players making the best of it.
You want new kdf pve any time soon, that's where to look.
While your intent is good, I don't think the Foundry will help the KDF. Players that want to level a KDF are better off doing the same Mission Replay over & over again than going through three Foundry missions for a bare piddle of XP.
The foundry may add UGC Storyline, but it isn't proper leveling PvE.
So that was a 'No" on the cutting out the "moral outrage" part of your argument then?
Time to get back to reality here.
Cryptic isn't a government agency giving out aid, or a business hiring workers. They aren;t subject to Equal Opportunity when it comes to what sort of missions they develop for a freaking video game.
If you were ACTUALLY a minority in ANY WAY in real life, you couldn't possibly have the gall to make such an argument. Of all the people who have cause to rant about oppression of a minority, a video game fan ranks dead last.
Even worse, its not the "mean old feds" who are oppressing you. Some of us might try to talk some sense into you, but we don't make the decisions. Cryptic is a BUSINESS and as such they base their BUSINESS DECISIONS on what will keep the MAJORITY of their playerbase happy. If you don't think its LOGICAL to do that, you're completely out of touch. Its not only logical, its IMPERATIVE if a business wants to survive.
I wouldn't mind if they did a bunch of KDF missions. I LIKED the ones they did last year. But I do UNDERSTAND why they can't commit a lot of dev resources to KDF-only things, because I think about the situation reasonably, and not passionately.
This horse has been ridden into the ground, scooped up and strapped to a nuclear missile, launched into an asteroid. Then THAT ASTEROID crashed into a bigger asteroid, and then a volley of quantum torpedos was fired onto the remains. FInally, the tiny smear of the horse that remained was located and someone shot it with the new and improved Orbital strike.
The horse is dead, the question answered.
The content team will continue to focus Featured Episodes and the KDF will continue to receive as much extra dev time as they can fit in. Its what they have said for the past year now.
No Dedicated dev, no big push of KDF missions (until the schedule allows for it down the road) no miracle of content creation.
And not because the mean old Feddies say "No" - but because THAT is what makes sense to keep the largest percentage of players happy (and playing)
I don't expect "KDF players" to stop asking for more missions anymore than I expect the sun to rise in the west tomorrow. But I don't think its too unreasonable to expect it to be done without the doom-saying, the negativity, and the blame-game that so many of them gravitate towards.
you seem to missunderstand our goals, we do not want a dedicated KDF team and priority switch. What the KDF wants is for the Devs to temporarily switch focus from federation fluff items to new KDF content. in the time it took the Devs to make the jupiter uniforms they could have slapped together 1 or 2 KDF missions. It would take a few hours on the foundry, and they have the full version. you seem to think we want to be the focus of the Devs, "no" we do not we want them to shift a small amount of recources to finish the KDF so the game can move on.
you seem to missunderstand our goals, we do not want a dedicated KDF team and priority switch. What the KDF wants is for the Devs to temporarily switch focus from federation fluff items to new KDF content. in the time it took the Devs to make the jupiter uniforms they could have slapped together 1 or 2 KDF missions. It would take a few hours on the foundry, and they have the full version. you seem to think we want to be the focus of the Devs, "no" we do not we want them to shift a small amount of recources to finish the KDF so the game can move on.
We were told that other people do the c-store "fluff", if those were to make KDF "fluff", it would end up in the c-store. And truth be told I´d rather see some KDF stuff in the store than not at all.
We were told that other people do the c-store "fluff", if those were to make KDF "fluff", it would end up in the c-store. And truth be told I´d rather see some KDF stuff in the store than not at all.
Which is precisely why my proposal only asks for one content dev, Gozer, after he's done with the STF revamps.
Basically, I'm not asking to end the Featured Episodes, new Uniforms, new Ships, or anything else currently promised, I'm asking for Gozer to be assigned to create basic leveling KDF Storyline PvE instead of whatever Mission revamp he would do after his current tasks are finished.
Which is precisely why my proposal only asks for one content dev, Gozer, after he's done with the STF revamps.
Basically, I'm not asking to end the Featured Episodes, new Uniforms, new Ships, or anything else currently promised, I'm asking for Gozer to be assigned to create basic leveling KDF Storyline PvE instead of whatever Mission revamp he would do after his current tasks are finished.
I guess KDF PvE is needed the most (other people would say mini-skirts i guess ). It´s all about faction identity, to establish what it´s like to be a Klingon (or Orion, or Gorn etc. under "opression"). To show their view of things.
If they would do what you propose it could help. I´m still hoping for a hidden meaning in dStahls comment in the new Ask Cryptic, when he said "the future could change this". I can still dream, can´t I ?
How much further can we retreat? An intern? An unpaid intern? The Cryptic Studios Janitor?
I'm sorry, I don't think it's silly at all.
I heartily agree, just knowing that ONE DEV was being assigned to work on KDF exclusive missions AFTER he finishes his current assignments would be enough to satisfy the KDF players for awhile. Let this ONE DEV spend a month working on KDF content, then after it is released, take a look and see if the KDF player base changes.
I think what Cryptic could do to make investment into the KDF more useful would be to introduce some elements that require you a KDF character but also help your Fed char. If for example every time you achieve a new KDF (or any rank, actually), you get an accolade and some other benefit that you can use on any toon, some people would try out the KDF just to get that. JUst like people are now teaming up for Featured Episodes because they want that special team accolade.
It won't work for everyone, but it doesn't have to.
For example, gaining a new rank might give you access to some new faction specific trophies on all characters, and possibly even a few items you can claim at a trader (or simply a free C-Store unlockable). Heck, if you want to go very far, you could even give permanent acess to faction-specific ships on characters not on that faction (maybe requiring to complete a certain mission or mission wrapper - for example, "loot vessels" via PvP Win 3 FvK matches as a Fed, and you gain one KDF vessel of the highest KDF rank you have achived so far.)
I think what Cryptic could do to make investment into the KDF more useful would be to introduce some elements that require you a KDF character but also help your Fed char. If for example every time you achieve a new KDF (or any rank, actually), you get an accolade and some other benefit that you can use on any toon, some people would try out the KDF just to get that. JUst like people are now teaming up for Featured Episodes because they want that special team accolade.
It won't work for everyone, but it doesn't have to.
For example, gaining a new rank might give you access to some new faction specific trophies on all characters, and possibly even a few items you can claim at a trader (or simply a free C-Store unlockable). Heck, if you want to go very far, you could even give permanent acess to faction-specific ships on characters not on that faction (maybe requiring to complete a certain mission or mission wrapper - for example, "loot vessels" via PvP Win 3 FvK matches as a Fed, and you gain one KDF vessel of the highest KDF rank you have achived so far.)
And people who don´t want to play a KDF char feel like they are punished for it by missing out on stuff. I don´t like this idea, sorry.
Have to say I agree with the OP. I really don't see how it would be a drain on resources to take a few guys (or even one) from the staff and have them devote themselves to klingon missions. The Ask Cryptic was encouraging, though, imo.
Wow, this was so obnoxious I had a more reasonable response typed out but now I can't help but address this one first.
Okay, I'm going to fix this up for you so it more accurately represents the player base we see.
We ask for a Season dedicated to the KDF, and we're told by Feds, "I'm getting bored of limited end game content too, I'm already thinking of dropping my sub and now you want me to wait a whole season without anything new to do?"
We ask for two things for the KDF for every three the Feds get, and we're told by Cryptic, "I'm sorry, but Federation ideas are easier to implement and in the case of the C-Store, can be sold to a much wider audience."
We ask for long-overdue animation fixes (Fed Tricorders? Huh?), costume options, or ship customization, and we're told by the developers, "We can't cater exclusively to 12% of the game population but we're doing what we can."
We ask for one thing for every two the Feds get, and we're told by the Feds, "I'm getting bored of limited end game content and am seriously considering cancelling my subscription and am less likely to invest in C-store purchases."
We ask for bug fixes for issues that have plagued us since launch (scanning errors, the infamous cloak bug), and we're told by the Developers, "Those bugs are harder to fix than you imagine, we're investing what time we can."
We ask for ONE dev to be dedicated to basic KDF PvE after he's finished with everything we know is on his plate right now, and we're told by Feds, "I'm getting bored of limited end game content and am less likely to continue my subscription or purchase new C-Store products."
When you straw man your opponents position so aggregiously you leave your readers trying to decide if you're really this dense or willing to creatively rephrase reality in order to fit your narrative. Either one makes a rational person less likely to consider discussion with you worth the effort and so you end up getting less rational replies and more irrational ranting.
On to, what I think, is the core flaw to your argument.
Im talking about the step-faction. The KDF. No game that I am aware of has succeeded on the market (with any kind of economic model) with 1 1/4 factions. The main reason stated so often by people who dont play on the KDF is that theres nothing to do over there that cant be done just as well on the Fed side.
I can think of three, off the top of my head, that succeed with 1 faction or no factions at all and that fit the STO financial model better. So I do not think you've properly proven your premise, "The rot of stagnation will kill this game entirely if the KDF is not fixed."
That isn't to say I don't want to see the KDF fixed, I play almost exclusively on the KDF and I hated running Colosseum over and over again at each rank, even if it was a spot better than the long grind through nameless Federation ships that scared me away at launch. To have a positive benefit from dramatic doubling the KDF population they still need to lose less than one Fed in five and this is already in a fairly stagnant game that has very limited options for end game.
I have alot of hope for the work being done on STF's. If it creates an end game experience that's enjoyable for groups it can help people build those relationships and find those goals that keep players engaged at level cap. If that's done well, maybe it'll take the pressure off to free up even a team of developers to risk time invested on the Klingon faction, given that it's an MMO though, I actually expect there to be a few game breaking bugs at first launch of these fixes, that require fixes of their own.
So in closing, no, I don't think we're going to get Gozer exclusively after the next patch and I don't think it's good for the overall health of the MMO if we do. I'm sorry, but the current work on the STF's and the inevitable fixes that will require is just more important for the longhaul. In the short term, they're not putting out Featured Episodes fast enough as it is.
I think what Cryptic could do to make investment into the KDF more useful would be to introduce some elements that require you a KDF character but also help your Fed char. If for example every time you achieve a new KDF (or any rank, actually), you get an accolade and some other benefit that you can use on any toon, some people would try out the KDF just to get that. JUst like people are now teaming up for Featured Episodes because they want that special team accolade.
It won't work for everyone, but it doesn't have to.
For example, gaining a new rank might give you access to some new faction specific trophies on all characters, and possibly even a few items you can claim at a trader (or simply a free C-Store unlockable). Heck, if you want to go very far, you could even give permanent acess to faction-specific ships on characters not on that faction (maybe requiring to complete a certain mission or mission wrapper - for example, "loot vessels" via PvP Win 3 FvK matches as a Fed, and you gain one KDF vessel of the highest KDF rank you have achived so far.)
I'm all for encouraging players to roll & level KDF toons, for luring them over to the KDF, but I want it to be by the KDFs own merits. Rewarding Feds for playing KDF might be effective, but it would cross an ethical line, one which I think would do more harm than good. I can easily imagine a portion of the playerbase purposefully boycotting the KDF rather than be blackmailed into playing one.
If we are to gain, let us gain by honorable means, in ways we can proudly relate in story and song to those who come after.
Lets show the MMO community that minority Factions can gain ground, even in the face of great resistance.
As someone who backs homogenization, I don't give your opinion any weight whatsoever. I'm not going to waste my time. You are not my ally, nor my friend, and I have better things to do then show point by point why you're wrong.
When you straw man your opponents position so aggregiously you leave your readers trying to decide if you're really this dense or willing to creatively rephrase reality in order to fit your narrative.
I'm sorry, but the current work on the STF's and the inevitable fixes that will require is just more important for the longhaul. In the short term, they're not putting out Featured Episodes fast enough as it is.
Which is precisely why my proposal only asks for one content dev, Gozer, after he's done with the STF revamps.
Basically, I'm not asking to end the Featured Episodes, new Uniforms, new Ships, or anything else currently promised, I'm asking for Gozer to be assigned to create basic leveling KDF Storyline PvE instead of whatever Mission revamp he would do after his current tasks are finished.
I think what Cryptic could do to make investment into the KDF more useful would be to introduce some elements that require you a KDF character but also help your Fed char. If for example every time you achieve a new KDF (or any rank, actually), you get an accolade and some other benefit that you can use on any toon, some people would try out the KDF just to get that. JUst like people are now teaming up for Featured Episodes because they want that special team accolade.
It won't work for everyone, but it doesn't have to.
For example, gaining a new rank might give you access to some new faction specific trophies on all characters, and possibly even a few items you can claim at a trader (or simply a free C-Store unlockable). Heck, if you want to go very far, you could even give permanent acess to faction-specific ships on characters not on that faction (maybe requiring to complete a certain mission or mission wrapper - for example, "loot vessels" via PvP Win 3 FvK matches as a Fed, and you gain one KDF vessel of the highest KDF rank you have achived so far.)
I dunno, it's a good idea but then they'd have to do the same thing for the other side. Create accolades and bonuses for the KDF that can only be obtained by playing on the Federation side. And sure, while most Klingons have Federation toons they play we still run the risk of Klinks going Blue and never coming back.
As someone who backs homogenization, I don't give your opinion any weight whatsoever. I'm not going to waste my time. You are not my ally, nor my friend, and I have better things to do then show why you're wrong.
That's nice, I hope atleast you got to the part where I pointed out that nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep oversimplifying and strawmanning your actual opposition. Or quote mining, if you had fully quoted me you'd see that I specifically made mention of your Gozer suggestion and why it's not likely good for the overall MMO.
And people who don´t want to play a KDF char feel like they are punished for it by missing out on stuff. I don´t like this idea, sorry.
and people that don't want to play fed char's aren't missing out on anything?
i think it's safe to say everyone who has ever rolled kdf as a main has felt punished at one point or another.
the idea is already in-game, just in-reverse.
basically we're just brainstorming ideas for incentives for UFP players to roll KDF.
to those that don't want to play KDF, there's no risk of them missing out on anything any time soon. period.
We can debate back and forth forever and the very vocal KDF minority is likely to make sure that we do so, however, development of PvE content through the Featured Episodes being available for both factions is the most reasonable course at this point. It would be far, far, more dangerous to this game to leave the Federation majority without content than to risk losing 8 to 12 percent of the population because of a lack of Klingon exclusive content.
To put in Star Trek terms; The good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one." In developing for everyone they alleviate the KDF grind and they keep the Federation players occupied. You are correct that the Klingons deserve more, and I do not like the state of the faction but a complete correction at this stage is unlikely in the extreme.
Without even addressing the need for healthy, balanced factions, the Federation will continue to get content in the only way it has - through Featured episodes. Kat is simply saying that any efforts to remaster Fed episodes and things like that should be diverted to increasing the amount of KDF content until there's at least a semblance of parity.
May want to actually read what you're replying to next time.
Without even addressing the need for healthy, balanced factions, the Federation will continue to get content in the only way it has - through Featured episodes. Kat is simply saying that any efforts to remaster Fed episodes and things like that should be diverted to increasing the amount of KDF content until there's at least a semblance of parity.
May want to actually read what you're replying to next time.
First off, you do realize that you just claimed the only way the Federation got content was through featured episodes, and in the very next sentence gave an example of another way the Federation gets content?
Kat's suggestion, specifically, is to take the man currently responsible for fixing STF's and, whenever he gets done with that, dedicate him exclusively to generating Klingon content instead of having him remaster Federation missions. Except, since he's fixing STF's you can be sure that'll take a long time, rewarding end game content always does, and when he's finally done with that task there will likely be something else end game related way for him to work on.
Now, I'm not seeing any immediate plans to remaster more Federation content, so maybe they have something like this planned already, or maybe they're all scrambling to get the borg encounters done for the end of this month and haven't planned out to July yet. I guess we'll know soon enough but the developers don't seem to share Kat's belief that STO will die with the Klingon faction so I'm not optimistic.
Comments
Time to get back to reality here.
Cryptic isn't a government agency giving out aid, or a business hiring workers. They aren;t subject to Equal Opportunity when it comes to what sort of missions they develop for a freaking video game.
If you were ACTUALLY a minority in ANY WAY in real life, you couldn't possibly have the gall to make such an argument. Of all the people who have cause to rant about oppression of a minority, a video game fan ranks dead last.
Even worse, its not the "mean old feds" who are oppressing you. Some of us might try to talk some sense into you, but we don't make the decisions. Cryptic is a BUSINESS and as such they base their BUSINESS DECISIONS on what will keep the MAJORITY of their playerbase happy. If you don't think its LOGICAL to do that, you're completely out of touch. Its not only logical, its IMPERATIVE if a business wants to survive.
I wouldn't mind if they did a bunch of KDF missions. I LIKED the ones they did last year. But I do UNDERSTAND why they can't commit a lot of dev resources to KDF-only things, because I think about the situation reasonably, and not passionately.
This horse has been ridden into the ground, scooped up and strapped to a nuclear missile, launched into an asteroid. Then THAT ASTEROID crashed into a bigger asteroid, and then a volley of quantum torpedos was fired onto the remains. FInally, the tiny smear of the horse that remained was located and someone shot it with the new and improved Orbital strike.
The horse is dead, the question answered.
The content team will continue to focus Featured Episodes and the KDF will continue to receive as much extra dev time as they can fit in. Its what they have said for the past year now.
No Dedicated dev, no big push of KDF missions (until the schedule allows for it down the road) no miracle of content creation.
And not because the mean old Feddies say "No" - but because THAT is what makes sense to keep the largest percentage of players happy (and playing)
I don't expect "KDF players" to stop asking for more missions anymore than I expect the sun to rise in the west tomorrow. But I don't think its too unreasonable to expect it to be done without the doom-saying, the negativity, and the blame-game that so many of them gravitate towards.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're equivalent, merely that there is in fact a moral argument to be made. Both in the majority vs minority comparison, and in the fact that we've paid (or are paying) just as much as you are. In fact, we're both paying for two Factions, and as of right now, we're not really getting what we've paid for.
I am actually, in several ways. I'm not quite sure where the forum lines are on talking about this, so let's just say I'm covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (in two ways). So let me ask you this: has the oppressive majority ever been uncomfortable with their oppression, or is it always the minority who speaks up?
What would happen if it always took a majority for reforms to be made? I don't want to get political here, but I can't think of any major civil-rights legislation or ruling that came through because of a majority opinion, it was always a brave legislature or judge willing to do the right thing instead of the popular thing.
A majority does not gain moral standing by default. Never has, never will.
You've laid the problem out then, haven't you? The majority will always preserve their status. every time the question of KDF content comes up, the Feds will shout it down.
No matter what the Feds get, there will always be more for them to demand. KDF players ask for leveling PvE, something vital for the survival of their Faction (and thus survival of the game), and the Feds can shout it down in favor of fluff, or a new ship, or some shiny new costumes.
There has to come a point where you, as a Fed player, are told "No", told that for just a little while, you're going to wait so the KDF can get real content. Because if that doesn't happen, then the "schedule" will never allow for it. There will always be some other "thing" that Feds can demand for themselves in place of KDF content. Something they can insist is more important (because they're the big important majority).
Telling us to wait for the schedule to allow it is saying it will never come. And that's not acceptable.
Pure majority rule is mob rule, and mob rule is neither logical or just.
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Somebody pee in your coffee?
This is a video game, and I see nothing wrong with Katic's post. In fact, I whole-heartedly support it as thoughtful and professional...but your attacks and "shut the door" position on the topic really does dishearten me, because if that is how the Devs think (I do not think that they think this way, incidentally), then the game is in very dire straits.
Regardless of the player base, regardless of population numbers from a factional point of view, I have found Cryptic and the outstanding Devs that work there to be remarkably responsive to feedback. That is what Katic's post is - and it is not a rant about the KDF -- it is a thoughtful discussion about the future of the entire game.
In support of Katic's post, I would like to re-print one of the key questions that came up in the June 2011 "Ask Cryptic" post. I want to share it with those of you that may not have seen it because I think it clearly shows that Cryptic, and the Devs that are working Season 4 and Season 5 content recognize everything that Katic has stated, and that there does appear to be hope for the KDF. Here is the question/answer that caught my eye:
You'll never get the support you want for a change like this. Keep trying though.
When people asked for Dabo it was a limited vocal group and the request was granted.
It was okay to ask and it was okay to get it ingame even though it was by far not everyone who wanted it.
When something like missions for the KDF are asked for it's not okay and the needs of the many
are mentioned are a logical reson against it.
What makes this request different from the other?
You said you had yet to hear of ONE player who had. I was simply... updating you. :rolleyes:
Content creators create content (missions, levels, maps, STFs, etc) and other people do minigames.
And it may have been a small amount ASKING for it, but its something new for each and every character (whether they use it or not)
Dev time spent on KDF is not something new for each character.
Read what I said carefully. Each Character, not each PLAYER.
Dabo: requested by maybe 5%, but useable by 100%
KDF mission: requested by 10%, useable by 10% (or 12, or whatever the ratio is now)
In short, you can't just consider the vocal fans, but the actual target audience of whatever you are creating.
Don't know about you but this is the Klingon Gameplay Forum, the players that post on here are consumers and are not happy with the result, this game has been live for over a year, and instead of making content to appeal to both factions they have decided that the population on the FED side was bigger (becuase you have no choice but to play FED out of the gate) so they went with the path of least resistance.
Now how could someone with so much content look down at the KDF players when you infact would start a thread similar to Katic's if you as a FED player only had 18 missions and cookie cutter daily/exploration missions. What about if you didnt get your MVAM, Gal-X, Oberth, Vulcan ship, or your Multitude of uniforms. But instead we let you have the refits, vet awards, and gave you dual faction FE's to play.
Here we are in the alternate timeline of STO (From launch to now): STF/Dailes/FE's not included
KDF Content:
58 playable story line missions
Over 20 choices of uniforms and accessories
7 Shuttles (to include fighters)
29 Playable Ships (T1-T5)
FED Content:
18 Playable Story line mission
10 Choices of Uniforms
3 Shuttles (to include fighter)
19 Ships (T1-T5)
Now in that timeline you are a die hard feddie player, what do you think your reaction would be? Now we all know that you will shrug this off and pretty much try to make some kind of witty response, but be realistic you are a paying customer, and you want satisfaction.
Props to you Katic for putting up a great post!
Except the target audience is every player. You think the devs want the KDF to stay a small portion of the player population? Of course they don't, they want as many players as possible. They want players to buy the game, a sub, and C-Store items.
And the fact that you yourself have said:
Shows that people who desire KDF content number more than just the current KDF player Population.
How many KDF players have quit over the last year because there's nothing to do? How many potential players have looked into the game, seen the drought on the KDF side, and decided they weren't going to pay for two factions and receive 1 1/4? I know at least four. If they made Season 5 or 6 a KDF PvE extravaganza, I could bring in four more players the day it goes live, two of whom have said they'd go LTS.
Klingon content will bring old players back, and make the game that much more enticing to those on the fence, bringing new players in.
To Cryptic Dev's/EP's:
Want to create more KDF traffic create a KDF Q double XP week. That week will be for the KDF and KDF alone. If the PvE players do not wanna level by doing PvP, then offer that double XP week and watch the nebulas explode with T3 and below ships.
Excellent idea.
I know that during the One Year Anniversary and the double XP Weekend I saw more KDF lowbie toons around Qonos and the featured episode Sectors than ever before.
EDIT: I feel the need to clarify, it wasn't only lowbie toons, I saw quite a few ships of higher tiers going about as well, likely to build up Boff XP to retool their Boffs (just like the KDF player XP drought, it's hard to find Boff XP too).
What would you support as a means of the KDF getting exclusive storyline PvE content?
The only reason I don't support Gozer working on kdf content in his spare time, is because I feel it's an issue that requires more attention than just the attention of 1dev's spare time.
Til we see kdf content get the dev attention it deserves, I'm supporting the Foundry. Kinda stings how we went from the "pvp faction"to the "make your own content" faction, but there's a lot of talented players making the best of it.
You want new kdf pve any time soon, that's where to look.
I agree completely, but as I've mentioned before, it's our last bastion of hope, everything else has been shot down, over & over.
While your intent is good, I don't think the Foundry will help the KDF. Players that want to level a KDF are better off doing the same Mission Replay over & over again than going through three Foundry missions for a bare piddle of XP.
The foundry may add UGC Storyline, but it isn't proper leveling PvE.
you seem to missunderstand our goals, we do not want a dedicated KDF team and priority switch. What the KDF wants is for the Devs to temporarily switch focus from federation fluff items to new KDF content. in the time it took the Devs to make the jupiter uniforms they could have slapped together 1 or 2 KDF missions. It would take a few hours on the foundry, and they have the full version. you seem to think we want to be the focus of the Devs, "no" we do not we want them to shift a small amount of recources to finish the KDF so the game can move on.
We were told that other people do the c-store "fluff", if those were to make KDF "fluff", it would end up in the c-store. And truth be told I´d rather see some KDF stuff in the store than not at all.
Which is precisely why my proposal only asks for one content dev, Gozer, after he's done with the STF revamps.
Basically, I'm not asking to end the Featured Episodes, new Uniforms, new Ships, or anything else currently promised, I'm asking for Gozer to be assigned to create basic leveling KDF Storyline PvE instead of whatever Mission revamp he would do after his current tasks are finished.
I guess KDF PvE is needed the most (other people would say mini-skirts i guess
If they would do what you propose it could help. I´m still hoping for a hidden meaning in dStahls comment in the new Ask Cryptic, when he said "the future could change this". I can still dream, can´t I ?
I heartily agree, just knowing that ONE DEV was being assigned to work on KDF exclusive missions AFTER he finishes his current assignments would be enough to satisfy the KDF players for awhile. Let this ONE DEV spend a month working on KDF content, then after it is released, take a look and see if the KDF player base changes.
It won't work for everyone, but it doesn't have to.
For example, gaining a new rank might give you access to some new faction specific trophies on all characters, and possibly even a few items you can claim at a trader (or simply a free C-Store unlockable). Heck, if you want to go very far, you could even give permanent acess to faction-specific ships on characters not on that faction (maybe requiring to complete a certain mission or mission wrapper - for example, "loot vessels" via PvP Win 3 FvK matches as a Fed, and you gain one KDF vessel of the highest KDF rank you have achived so far.)
And people who don´t want to play a KDF char feel like they are punished for it by missing out on stuff. I don´t like this idea, sorry.
Wow, this was so obnoxious I had a more reasonable response typed out but now I can't help but address this one first.
Okay, I'm going to fix this up for you so it more accurately represents the player base we see.
When you straw man your opponents position so aggregiously you leave your readers trying to decide if you're really this dense or willing to creatively rephrase reality in order to fit your narrative. Either one makes a rational person less likely to consider discussion with you worth the effort and so you end up getting less rational replies and more irrational ranting.
On to, what I think, is the core flaw to your argument.
I can think of three, off the top of my head, that succeed with 1 faction or no factions at all and that fit the STO financial model better. So I do not think you've properly proven your premise, "The rot of stagnation will kill this game entirely if the KDF is not fixed."
That isn't to say I don't want to see the KDF fixed, I play almost exclusively on the KDF and I hated running Colosseum over and over again at each rank, even if it was a spot better than the long grind through nameless Federation ships that scared me away at launch. To have a positive benefit from dramatic doubling the KDF population they still need to lose less than one Fed in five and this is already in a fairly stagnant game that has very limited options for end game.
I have alot of hope for the work being done on STF's. If it creates an end game experience that's enjoyable for groups it can help people build those relationships and find those goals that keep players engaged at level cap. If that's done well, maybe it'll take the pressure off to free up even a team of developers to risk time invested on the Klingon faction, given that it's an MMO though, I actually expect there to be a few game breaking bugs at first launch of these fixes, that require fixes of their own.
So in closing, no, I don't think we're going to get Gozer exclusively after the next patch and I don't think it's good for the overall health of the MMO if we do. I'm sorry, but the current work on the STF's and the inevitable fixes that will require is just more important for the longhaul. In the short term, they're not putting out Featured Episodes fast enough as it is.
I'm all for encouraging players to roll & level KDF toons, for luring them over to the KDF, but I want it to be by the KDFs own merits. Rewarding Feds for playing KDF might be effective, but it would cross an ethical line, one which I think would do more harm than good. I can easily imagine a portion of the playerbase purposefully boycotting the KDF rather than be blackmailed into playing one.
If we are to gain, let us gain by honorable means, in ways we can proudly relate in story and song to those who come after.
Lets show the MMO community that minority Factions can gain ground, even in the face of great resistance.
As someone who backs homogenization, I don't give your opinion any weight whatsoever. I'm not going to waste my time. You are not my ally, nor my friend, and I have better things to do then show point by point why you're wrong.
However:
I dunno, it's a good idea but then they'd have to do the same thing for the other side. Create accolades and bonuses for the KDF that can only be obtained by playing on the Federation side. And sure, while most Klingons have Federation toons they play we still run the risk of Klinks going Blue and never coming back.
That's nice, I hope atleast you got to the part where I pointed out that nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep oversimplifying and strawmanning your actual opposition. Or quote mining, if you had fully quoted me you'd see that I specifically made mention of your Gozer suggestion and why it's not likely good for the overall MMO.
and people that don't want to play fed char's aren't missing out on anything?
i think it's safe to say everyone who has ever rolled kdf as a main has felt punished at one point or another.
the idea is already in-game, just in-reverse.
basically we're just brainstorming ideas for incentives for UFP players to roll KDF.
to those that don't want to play KDF, there's no risk of them missing out on anything any time soon. period.
Without even addressing the need for healthy, balanced factions, the Federation will continue to get content in the only way it has - through Featured episodes. Kat is simply saying that any efforts to remaster Fed episodes and things like that should be diverted to increasing the amount of KDF content until there's at least a semblance of parity.
May want to actually read what you're replying to next time.
First off, you do realize that you just claimed the only way the Federation got content was through featured episodes, and in the very next sentence gave an example of another way the Federation gets content?
Kat's suggestion, specifically, is to take the man currently responsible for fixing STF's and, whenever he gets done with that, dedicate him exclusively to generating Klingon content instead of having him remaster Federation missions. Except, since he's fixing STF's you can be sure that'll take a long time, rewarding end game content always does, and when he's finally done with that task there will likely be something else end game related way for him to work on.
Now, I'm not seeing any immediate plans to remaster more Federation content, so maybe they have something like this planned already, or maybe they're all scrambling to get the borg encounters done for the end of this month and haven't planned out to July yet. I guess we'll know soon enough but the developers don't seem to share Kat's belief that STO will die with the Klingon faction so I'm not optimistic.