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overcharged for atari credits
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1000 atari credits are meant tobe £7.88 gbp but charged £9.88 what gives ?
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I read a thread about it on the forums, something about it being too much of a bother to display real-time exchange rates, so they update it every few months or something.
I don't know if that has any bearing upon your issue though. It should tell you how much they cost when you check out.
Pardon the presumption, but did your purchase go something like this?:
STO is the only mmo i play out of many p2p/f2p browser/client based etc that adds the extra VAT on, digital goods arent supposed to be taxable but dont tell cryptic.
On a side note, UK users can now use the buy-gift-code points options and pay in USD on paypal/card, you still get hit with the 20% tax but you end up being like 30p cheaper than buying in UK currency...
strange things indeed
* be of satisfactory quality. This means that the goods should be free of any faults, including minor ones. They should be of the quality that a reasonable person would expect given the description, price and any other relevant circumstances. You can take into account the appearance and finish of the goods, and whether there are any defects (including minor ones). You can also take into account whether publicized information about specific features of the goods is accurate, and whether the goods are safe when used properly
* be fit for the purpose. This means that you must be able to use them for the purposes that you would normally expect from this type of product, or any purpose that you have told the seller you want to use them for
* match their description. This means that if there is a verbal or written description of the goods, it must be accurate. And if you choose goods after seeing a sample, your goods must match the sample.
There are a number of things a trader is not allowed to do when they sell you goods. These include:
* make a written statement that you have no legal rights when you buy goods
* make a false description about goods
* sell dangerous or unsafe goods
* try to charge for goods sent that you didn't order
* sell short measure or short weight
* give a misleading price, either in writing or verbally.
If a trader does any of these things, you should complain to Consumer Direct see under heading Further help for details.
source http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_goods_your_rights.htm
Use the form below to purchase more Atari Tokens.
Prices are not inclusive of VAT and/or other applicable local taxes.
Of course I ignore the whole VAT thing as we do not have that were I live.
The problem is Cryptic (and thus Atari) may skirt the law by including the disclaimer:
I would love to see how this stands under independent legal scrutiny. There is something deeply immoral, if not illegal; in obtaining the customer's approval for one price then charging another.
Ok, any lawyers in the house? UK Trade Law preferably.
then about four pages on how to remit the taxes that look like an epic annoyance.
Also, according to the book, only Washington and Michigan seem to have requirements with stating taxes before the time of sale - Canada and the UK both seem to expect the customer to understand the taxes they pay. Reading this it sounds like we have to state the price before tax, nothing requiring the price including tax or listing the tax separately.
Edit: It is very clear that digital goods are still subject to the VAT. There is a threshold, looks like it ranges from 30k to 100k depending on a page of criteria, but I can't tell if that's 30k in sales to the UK or 30k in sales total. It just says, "turnover though internet sales or otherwise exceeds that member state's VAT threshold then the business must register for VAT and to collect VAT on outputs and remit to the member state's tax authorities."
Thanks for taking the time to look this up for everyone.
The thing about VAT in the UK is that it is commonly included as part of the advertised price - although this appears to be optional.
The only situation where VAT is not listed is in trade catalogues, such as those listing computer parts. An individual can purchase from these, but the VAT is added at point of sale, and the customer is informed of this before payment.
The issue here is that the VAT is added AFTER the customer has agreed to the sale and given their payment details. The transaction goes like this:
Sure, it may be legally sound, but is it the right thing to do?
It's called VAT (and it' stated on the STO site that prices don't include the VAT because the VAT varies depending on counrtry). Sucks, but that honestly is beyond Cryptic's control.
in short? it wouldn't.
fact is by law you must disclose the full price the customer is expected to pay *including taxes* before the item is paid for, via cash or credit card. it is illegal to, say, charge $10 for something I bought at a store and I approve that payment, only to find I was charged $5 in taxes, for a total of $15 charged to my card. in simple terms this means the tax must be added to the price before approval for the payment is given. hence what cryptic is doing is not technically legal. it is not enough to say 'vat taxes may be included' as they must state what the amount you are expected to pay - taxes included, before you approve the purchase. do NOT argue with me on this cryptic, that is the law and you can look it up for yourself.
this is why, here in nova scotia, if I buy something that costs $100, that is punched into the register, as is the tax (7%) which updates the final price to something like $107. THAT is the price that I would authorize the credit card company to remove from my account. they could add or remove nothing to that number without my consent.
not that cryptic actually cares. this isn't the first thing they've done that isn't legal.
Do you have examples of other alleged illegal activity?
I am wondering the same thing.
Besides with the legal arm behind Atari if what they were doing were illegal it would not be happening.
It is enough to say VAT taxes are not included in the price and vary depending blah blah blah. It is the CONSUMERS job to know that there is a VAT. Every EU/UK citizen knows there is a VAT tax. If you don't then you live under a rock
Regardless of that it can sometimes be EXTREMELY difficult for an american company to know exactly WHAT the vat charges are going to be beforehand. While a lot of online processors do input this (or attempt to cover it with adding a flat say 15% tax ontop of the purchase price), even paypal doesn't always list the VAT charge till it's gone through. And I think, them being a former bank, would have a better grasp on this concept hehe.
In the end, why people get shocked when they are charged VAT when it clearly states it's not included in the purchase price is beyond me.
Every time I've tested the buying process through Paypal, it has always shown the total cost, including a separate line for tax.
In your trading, did you ever charge a customer extra AFTER they agreed to pay a stated amount?
If so, did you issue a receipt that only showed the original amount, with no mention of applicable taxes?
Atari is not American, it is French and they should know better. Infogrames bought out Atari/Hasbro years ago. Atari has some corporate offices in NYC, but it is really a holding corporation based out of Lyon, France.
If they cannot resolve the issue to your satisfaction and you think there is something legally wrong (based on your own understanding or on the advice here), a lawyer might be able to tell you if something is wrong and initiate the necessary steps.