Fixing the Economy
Peterpeterm - Raging Tide
Posts: 114 Arc User
I know people want a coin sink or whatever....but...Wouldnt an instant easy fix would be make AH Gold cap at 1.5-2mill or lower?b:surrender
Post edited by Peterpeterm - Raging Tide on
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Another of these...
No. The cap in AH is just for "fast" exchanges that you can set and leave. People have been buying/selling gold over WC to circumvent the AH for a long time and changing the cap would simply make it happen more. On top of that, trying to force gold prices to suddenly drop by such a huge amount would have vastly negative effects.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1702631 is one of the more recently replied topics with this same idea where those shooting it down explains some of the flaws it has.(Insert fancy image here)
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ahhh okay thank you ;o was curious about that! b:laugh0
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They should use the bidding hall to get rid of the coins on the server not the gold. Then remove the in-game bot from the game or reduce the coin drops and the items from mobs to the point where botting isn't profitable anymore. The GM's can make this happen it's a serious issue that can kill this game and whats left of the playerbase. Sparkie please bring this issue to your meetings or any gm that sees this. Thanks.0
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Greedy people is what ruined most of the economy. I already have several friends who quit since there's almost nothing worth to farm anymore, and the only way to get end game gear is by csing away or use multiple account to farm/merchant.
Kinda frustating when seeing the price in west archo catshops are now ranging in few hundred millons. b:surrenderHeaven Tear
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Cieleena 101/101/101 Sage Stormbringer0 -
absolutely terrible. But this topic has been talked to death for years, as its gotten progressively worse. PWE likes it, because in order for the average player to afford end-game, they have to charge money.PWI Gamer since Closed Beta (Under RisenPhoenix/Nahktuul - Sanctuary/Archosaur)0
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A better idea would be, that all coins disappear from the game. After doing a certain amount of work in game (multiple daily quest, mob kills etc) you get 1 gold. Make it so that max you can get 1~2 gold per day this way.
Coin sink solved b:cute.0 -
Peterpeterm - Raging Tide wrote: »I know people want a coin sink or whatever....but...Wouldnt an instant easy fix would be make AH Gold cap at 1.5-2mill or lower?b:surrender
Not unless they also implement an infinity of gold available at that max price. Otherwise you'll end up with a lot of "WTS gold outside of AH 4kk each pm me" on the world channel. People would simply stop using the AH. Infinite supply at a hard top price would solve the problems in the short term, but not in the long one. It is oversupply of coins that is making the prices so high. It is the oversupply of coins that needs to be cut off.
DQ items to 1 coin, the lot of them. That would solve it.
As for PWE enjoying it because it forces people to charge... yes and no. If doing nothing is driving the average player away, you'll end up with just the cashing top tier, and that's ultimately selfdefeating. A group of players that already has just about everything they want won't use cash shops for anything other then the odd consumable. Which means grinding for TT items, EODs, EOOs, and other intermediate materials will be pointless. Which leaves just PvP to pass the time with.
[Edit] The idea above, to get gold for specific quests, is also interesting.I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.
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Evryn - Morai wrote: »
DQ items to 1 coin, the lot of them. That would solve it.
Sure, and take the coins away from the players there dosn't have multiple chars botting all day long or spamming Jones with 10 chars forceing them into Pay2Play, the same would go for reduceing or removeing coin drops, tho PWE would love the idea i guess, as it would force more ppl into buying gold to sell for coinsMiss my Avatar b:sad
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Another big factor people do not take into account when they complain about in game economy is the fact the real world economy also sucks right now. People have less money in real life they can afford to spend on luxuries/fun so they want to get the most for their dollar. Currently more people want gold and less people can afford to charge it.
Truly the only way to fix this would be for PWI itself to sell gold through the AH in game. That would provide an unlimited supply of gold for the players and create more competitive prices. But this is something they would never do. As a company their first priority will always be making a profit and they know having things more expensive means people, normally, would be charging more gold. But due to so many people having unstable finances right now, they just can't; and in the end nobody wins.AstriaFae
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urgh this thread is becoming an exact copy of the one linked in OPKossy's post. Y u people no read b:angry0
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I wonder if this person still plays and thinks people should just stay here pwi. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12488261&postcount=30
That cape that is 1.4b coins is wings of cloud charger. In today's game it would be the matchless wings equivalent. An that cape is creeping up there in that price range. The more things change the more they stay the same.... A lot of what he posted is just history being replayed. $100 USD is currently about 360m coins. Gold spammers, haven't we just had a terrible bout with that? Lack of GM involvement...
Don't count on a game fix to the economy, PWI has it right where it wants it. Only change is that they gave us auto-culti in hopes people gold stays high and people continue to load zen for coins.0 -
Evryn - Morai wrote: »Not unless they also implement an infinity of gold available at that max price. Otherwise you'll end up with a lot of "WTS gold outside of AH 4kk each pm me" on the world channel. People would simply stop using the AH. Infinite supply at a hard top price would solve the problems in the short term, but not in the long one. It is oversupply of coins that is making the prices so high. It is the oversupply of coins that needs to be cut off.
DQ items to 1 coin, the lot of them. That would solve it.
As for PWE enjoying it because it forces people to charge... yes and no. If doing nothing is driving the average player away, you'll end up with just the cashing top tier, and that's ultimately selfdefeating. A group of players that already has just about everything they want won't use cash shops for anything other then the odd consumable. Which means grinding for TT items, EODs, EOOs, and other intermediate materials will be pointless. Which leaves just PvP to pass the time with.
[Edit] The idea above, to get gold for specific quests, is also interesting.
Yay lets try to reduce the gold price and F the rest of the game by making drops like dq worthless just because of stinking gold prices lol..I rarely buy gold and play just fine.
Its a 2 edge sword son,either way your gonna get cut.
So what..take out DQ so then we can just farm for armor drops and worthless hp/mp pots to npc off?Those do generate larger incomes as well..so..uhh take those to one coin to?..no dummy0 -
Not at all. My proposal is to return to non-automated forms or making money, and make botting completely unviable as a source of income. IE players can go do Jolly Jones again if they need coins instead of having a farm of 20 or so bots do it without the player even being at the keyboard. But if PWI wishes the current situation to stay as it is, then I can live with that - just means I have to join the masses - preferably with a plan.
No free money, that's the point I am trying to make. I've further elaborated in the thread OpKossy linked:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=21720581&postcount=13
And incidentally, please don't call people "dummy", it makes your argument look weak if you have to use insults to strengthen it.I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.
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Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
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Capping the AH's gold trade would be pretty much useless (Since its only real presence in the game now, is only as an transitional point for ones gold to just simply get into ones own bag at whim anyways)
The only thing that would ever truly work well at dropping PWi's (ever-so-inflating) merchant prices effectively (if they didn't remove auto-cultivation) would be to just put most items that people buy from the merchants, into expanded NPC sales listings (like the 'low-mid level HP & MP charms & Dyes' aswell as 'low level dragon orbs & refining aids' into the merchant NPC's sales listings & etc.) ~ and then just simply put a 'Fair Coin Value' on each of those items brought into the npc expanded sales listings and just start capping items costs that way ~ it would be about the only way to safely minimalize the danger to the (ever-so-fragile) in-game economy (and not truly risk causing the possibility of a full-on economic collapse in-game) at this point in time in the game, as it sits right now...b:surrenderb:thanks0 -
Capping the AH's gold trade would be pretty much useless (Since its only real presence in the game now, is only as an transitional point for ones gold to just simply get into ones own bag at whim anyways)
The only thing that would ever truly work well at dropping PWi's (ever-so-inflating) merchant prices effectively (if they didn't remove auto-cultivation) would be to just put most items that people buy from the merchants, into expanded NPC sales listings (like the 'low-mid level HP & MP charms & Dyes' aswell as 'low level dragon orbs & refining aids' into the merchant NPC's sales listings & etc.) ~ and then just simply put a 'Fair Coin Value' on each of those items brought into the npc expanded sales listings and just start capping items costs that way ~ it would be about the only way to safely minimalize the danger to the (ever-so-fragile) in-game economy (and not truly risk causing the possibility of a full-on economic collapse in-game) at this point in time in the game, as it sits right now...b:surrenderb:thanks
What source of profit will PWI have if we make all things needed an npc coin item purchase.... The way to relieve gold price is to have non-boutique endgame gears but PWI can't figure out another profitable system. Or are too lazy to do so.
You can blame merchants if you want but merchants are in a way relieving the gold demand buy purchasing those items at discounted gold rates and reselling them. Those items will be purchased any which way.... Tons of players never watch sales and it is why they will purchase an item at almost full gold value in coins after the sale ends. So something like the crafting boxes usually 30g, on sale 15g. Merchant sells after the sale coin value of 25g maybe. That's a saving of 15g in respective to demand.0 -
Gawd it's already capped people...if they don't try to improve anything k whatevers.
Just raise gold ceiling to 8m.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Gawd it's already capped people...if they don't try to improve anything k whatevers.
Just raise gold ceiling to 8m.
Last weekend it was selling in WC on Sanc for 10m. I'm still not sure how they do that, but don't really care much either.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Last weekend it was selling in WC on Sanc for 10m. I'm still not sure how they do that, but don't really care much either.
Theroy here but if no gold was in AH you could WC it to sell at what ever price you wanted. However this i would advise would carry a BIG Risk!
Is auto culty really doing that much damage to the economy, is this a natural trend or is it something else?0 -
"Is auto culti really doing that much damage to the economy?" b:shockedTheroy here but if no gold was in AH you could WC it to sell at what ever price you wanted. However this i would advise would carry a BIG Risk!
Is auto culty really doing that much damage to the economy, is this a natural trend or is it something else?
There is a reason why major rpg mmo's / other game companies actually BAN bots and gold sellers and anyone that deals with those people by the 10's of thousands in a clip. Bots destroy the economy. By having introduced / implemented an in-game botting system for all to use, sure.... I am sure the bots / gold sellers lost all if not almost all business. But the consequence is, well, look at the economy. Bots and gold sellers themselves destroy economies, and thus entire game worlds, let alone EVERYONE IN GAME CAN NOW BOT. Other companies understand that. PWE/ARC and-or Wanmei obviously is clueless. b:surrender
I am sorry, but the way to deal with this, (and the 2 mil hard cap / npc selling gold cap was a SUGGESTION)... At least effing hard cap it at 4 mil then. AND KILL THE DAMN AUTO CULTI PROGRAM b:cry
Add to this (for those that actually think people would never spend $ again given a hard cap):
Not everyone has billions in coin hoarded up, that only applies to still a small top % of the population. Not everyone even in the months auto culti has been available has had multiple accounts running botting or had the tiers of gears in order to just auto pilot. Not everyone is or has been making billions by "merching" nor by "farming". Those aspects apply to a still very small % of the server populations. And after this auto culti is killed and a hard cap is put in place... Sure, you will be able to get a few gold per week perhaps from in game as free to play... but given the costs of everything? The War Avatar Cards ALONE will guarantee people can not possibly just not buy gold via cash shopping... for the love of effing everything mmo rpg... b:beatup
PS. For ishes and giggles... If peeps could be so kind as to throw me a private message with the absolute most outrageous games that have these extreme expenses that make PWI look cheap in comparison... I would love to hear about them. b:cute
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As to not simply add another post, ill add to this post.
Me personally, I am perhaps at the top of the "casual playing" / "casual cash shopping" players when it comes to cash shopping... but when it comes to what is considered a "true cash shopper," I am likely toward the very bottom of that spectrum. On average I can cash shop ~$20-35 per week.
Considering just my proposal of eliminating auto cultivation and setting a 4 million coin cap (as I call it a "hard cap") that is enforced by way of limitless gold sales in the gold exchange/trader from an npc listing set at 4,000,000... All this means is that in order for me to sell gold myself when I buy zen, that I would obviously need to come in under that 4,000,000 coin listing to sell my gold. When I actually have enough coin by way of grinding / farming whatever in game, then I can still buy gold using coin as usual, and be able to guarantee I will spend no more than that 4,000,000 to do so.
This also makes sure that those looking to push the gold to coin cost over that cap, will not be able to do so... All I would have to do is buy from the 4,000,000 npc listing and still get my cash shop items at a fair price. Where in the world do you see me NOT using real money to continue to buy zen? Where the **** am I getting all this limitless supply of coin then, in order to never put in real $? I can guarantee I will still be buying more gold via $ versus buying gold via coin. The costs of hp and mp charms, apothecary supplies, defense charms, meats and herbs, and repair bills per week are damn near impossible for me to keep up with as is... anything else, like progressing my gears... is really friggin stretching.
Would EFFING LOVE to know where all the limitless coin everyone says they have is gotten... EFFING LOVE TO KNOW. Farming with determination... in that case you can scratch like 95% of the population, due to time constraints and attention spans. Know-how of the market and patience to be able to merch... scratch again 95% of the population due to lack of know how and patience. Even Auto culti does not yield a big profit without not only a gear tier on par with my own, but I would have to have the right class built to said tier... again scratch 95% of the population.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well gold is certainly not worth 10m atm, as you can tell by shops floating around West Arch.
I would say auto-culti alone did not cause gold to reach the current cap, as it was not at the cap despite auto-culti being around for months. Furthermore, auto-culti income is not anywhere close to other sources of income.
Back in the days when I stayed up after maint to manage my shops (which I don't do anymore), you could get hundreds of millions within hours after maint, and that was when gold was like 1m each so that counted much more. Really, you might get around 10m a day per char on auto culti assuming it's not 2x...yet one round of pack sale is about 35m+, and that is profit coming off of this capped-at-4m gold just recently. One might argue that a round of packs may not sell in a day, well it definitely takes less than 3 days for sure, and a lot would not just sell one kind of boutique item at any given time.
So if one were to keep multiple shops like some people do, that is without doubt greater income than auto-culti, even with multiple farm squads. Not to mention 2 nights of NW on multiple alts a week, events, and even certain farming activities can make better money as well.
Auto-culti income is really peanuts compared to what people were and are capable of making in this game.
So what happened? I would say it's a combination of people not charging as much anymore and the ridiculous sales, 2x, promotions. Botting plays a role, sure, it generates coin from nothing while a lot of money making activities merely have coin change hands. To fix the economy, you need to address the elephant in the room, and that is the fact that the game is less attractive for charging than before. It is getting old, other games are coming out, certain steaming piles were handled poorly by the staff, some have become more conservative in their spending because of lower confidence in the economy, etc etc.
The part about auto-culti causing coin generation though, maybe you shouldn't get coins from mobs, maybe you could get things you can sell to other people for coins, like points you redeem for tradable items.
However, it's much simpler to just raise the gold ceiling.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Couple of points to keep it brief;
It's important to differentiate between coin creation and coin exchange. Auto cultivation is coin creation, coin is added to the economy that wasn't already there, catshop merchants simply circulate and funnel coin that already exists. Comparing income vs merching and botting isn't a conversation about drivers of inflation.
Let's assume 80% of the population is botting, let's assume there are 500 active players on a server, running 2 clients making 10m per day per char this equates to a server wide coin creation of 8bn per day. 240bn per month.
What we need to look at here isn't the top 5% individuals in terms of wealth driving prices up as is so commonly touted around (greedy merchers etc) it's the earning power of the 95% and more so the bottom 60%. Prior to botting they would be spamming jolly quests (around 4m a day) or spamming BH on multiple toons (2-7m a day), but now their earning power has doubled/tripled to 20m+ per day.
It's this much much larger number of players that are now flush with more coin than they had before and these players that are now demanding gold to purchase their 1st set of r9, gems, refines, and boutique items. This in my opinion is the real driver of gold prices going up and the street value of pack items doubling/tripling in the last few months.
Consider also that this large group of players may even have been the casual cashers who would charge occasional small amounts of gold and sell the gold to players on the auction house to generate coin to cover costs of small upgrades, these players aren't charging any more (botting instead) and their gold isn't on the auction house any more.
The inflationary effect of mass botting wasn't going to happen overnight, it's a gradual creeping effect, though I think it should flatten out when prices fully adjust based on earning powers. Same conclusion gold cap needs to be raised or even removed entirely. Free markets and all. The people who don't have the capital for merching or the income for cashing will need to embrace botting to be on the PWI 'minimum wage' so to speak. If PWE has no intention of removing auto culti.DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Well gold is certainly not worth 10m atm, as you can tell by shops floating around West Arch.
I would say auto-culti alone did not cause gold to reach the current cap, as it was not at the cap despite auto-culti being around for months. Furthermore, auto-culti income is not anywhere close to other sources of income.
Back in the days when I stayed up after maint to manage my shops (which I don't do anymore), you could get hundreds of millions within hours after maint, and that was when gold was like 1m each so that counted much more. Really, you might get around 10m a day per char on auto culti assuming it's not 2x...yet one round of pack sale is about 35m+, and that is profit coming off of this capped-at-4m gold just recently. One might argue that a round of packs may not sell in a day, well it definitely takes less than 3 days for sure, and a lot would not just sell one kind of boutique item at any given time.
So if one were to keep multiple shops like some people do, that is without doubt greater income than auto-culti, even with multiple farm squads. Not to mention 2 nights of NW on multiple alts a week, events, and even certain farming activities can make better money as well.
Auto-culti income is really peanuts compared to what people were and are capable of making in this game.
So what happened? I would say it's a combination of people not charging as much anymore and the ridiculous sales, 2x, promotions. Botting plays a role, sure, it generates coin from nothing while a lot of money making activities merely have coin change hands. To fix the economy, you need to address the elephant in the room, and that is the fact that the game is less attractive for charging than before. It is getting old, other games are coming out, certain steaming piles were handled poorly by the staff, some have become more conservative in their spending because of lower confidence in the economy, etc etc.
The part about auto-culti causing coin generation though, maybe you shouldn't get coins from mobs, maybe you could get things you can sell to other people for coins, like points you redeem for tradable items.
However, it's much simpler to just raise the gold ceiling.
You overestimate auto culti.
I know someone in my faction that brags that he auto culti with 15 accounts same time earning 5m each.
15 x 5m = 75m per day.
75m x 28 = 2.1 billion a month.
That is during none x2....Do you want PWI to fix the economy before is to late?
please support Perfect World International Forum > Suggestion Box
> Limit Auto Cultivation to 1 hour just like Hyper stones0 -
jwillson123 wrote: »I know someone in my faction that brags that he auto culti with 15 accounts same time earning 5m each.
15 Accounts at the same time. So that's why PWI is laggy sometimes
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80% of the population botting is a stretch. I doubt there are enough bot spots for 80% of the server, not even 80% of my faction is actively botting at the moment. At the very least, not every account is capable of pumping out 10m per day. I might even guess that the server-wide coin generated from BH is comparable to the relatively few accounts botting.
I did acknowledge that botting generates coin as opposed to certain other ways of getting income, I was just suggesting that it doesn't make you SO RICH you're buying out gold to the max all the time. 10m is barely 3 gold a day atm.
I'm not buying it that bot income accumulation is now suddenly being released to the AH causing gold to max out because people would be buying gold continuously over the past months. There's no reason to hoard coin because that makes no sense.
So my point is simply that there's more factors than botting at play, such as the game being bad.
Yeah, I think gold price will stabilize at some point, and that some point may be greater than the gold ceiling right now, which is why they should just raise the gold ceiling.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »Consider also that this large group of players may even have been the casual cashers who would charge occasional small amounts of gold and sell the gold to players on the auction house to generate coin to cover costs of small upgrades, these players aren't charging any more (botting instead) and their gold isn't on the auction house any more.
This is true of a few people I know. They aren't able to play much due to full time jobs/family, so they were occasionally charging some just to sell the gold. But now they just set up bots while they are at work instead.jwillson123 wrote: »You overestimate auto culti.
I know someone in my faction that brags that he auto culti with 15 accounts same time earning 5m each.
15 x 5m = 75m per day.
75m x 28 = 2.1 billion a month.
That is during none x2....
He must not bot for long if he only earns 5 mil. I can only play about 3 hours a day and I do not use the bot system when I'm away, but during those three hours my sin generally makes close to 2 mil (and she doesn't kill as fast as the people that bot near me). Anyone who set up a bot for the day should easily be able to make 8-10 mil. And some people leave bots going for 24 hours, just stopping occasionally to sell/repair... that's 16+ mil per day easy. Even more for the people that run a second char just to pick drops as the killing becomes much faster. Add in the fact that many players run multiple accounts doing this and you are bringing in a lot of new money to the servers.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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the only way to fix PWI economy is to disable auto culti and making people only able to open 2 client, not by rules but to make each computer only able to open 2 client.0
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Its such a sad time we live in right now, I like money as much as the next guy but, I look at some people's gears and i say to myself, "when is enough enough" How much power does one character needs. Why does a seeker need to get +12 with JOSD's in R9Gear to Protect himself against a +12 physic ? Why does the physic has to be +12, This game is extremely unbalanced. If one class appears, the other class automatically Loses with no expectations. Skill limitations enabling One class, to no matter how hard they try to Never beat another specific class.
As for the question, Greed is always going to be here, it was here before it'll be here for years to come. From players and the companies. More so from the players if you ask me. The ones on my server dont even want to haggle, They set a price and they want that price, they dont care if they have to try and sell that item for the rest of the month. Less expensive gold would solve most of the problems. This i like to believe is true, Because When gold was 3m and 2m crab meats and herbs along with alot of other things were so much cheaper. b:cute0 -
2 important thing need to be considered. One is that 4m gold cap might be too low, but a cap at an ideal rate is better than no cap, because gold price can get too high, leading to undersirable consecuences. Two is that a 100m coin gained from botting is not simply a demand of 25 gold. A merchant who bot can invest that 25 gold, and in a time of surplus coins as large as this, will add more than just a 25 gold demand.0
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Is auto culty really doing that much damage to the economy, is this a natural trend or is it something else?
It is, but mainly on PvE servers. On PvP servers it's not so big a deal as people can kill the bots. On PvE servers all you need to do is:
- Level an archer or sin to 100
- Slap a G15 weapon on it
- Pick a random type of melee enemy
- Press F12
- Twice a day, sell the goodies and bag 2 million or so.
And "smart" people, myself included, have realised that PWI runs fine in a virtual machine (negating PWI's attempts to limit multiclienting - you can easily run 4 virtuals on a physical machine), and that the GMs do not enforce the 2 accounts per person rule at all (having reported people countless times and having seen no action on it led me to believe that this behaviour is being tolerated, so I've started to do this myself). So people can, if they wish, launch entire farms of bots netting themselves well in excess of 40 million per day. And I know from experience that there's not just one person doing this...
So yea, you got millions upon millions of coin being dumped into the economy on a daily basis - but there is virtually no coinsinks, and the endgame gear people -want- to access is only obtainable by boutique gold.
There are only a few solutions to this situation, which, again, is mainly due to PvP protection on pve servers:
- Crippling autoculti so it's unusable for coin generation -> Will trigger a migration of players who've become accustomed to autocultivation to other botting programs such as BMBot. Not really a solution to the problem, as the people who've got entire bot farms will be the first to make sure their source of income doesn't dry up.
- Limiting the number of connections a server will allow from a single IP: Will heavily impact folks who run 10+ clients from a home connection. Mitigates the problem, but you'll receive complaints from people "who'se large family all plays PWI", or from places like student homes where a single connection is shared among a number of people. Could impact a few people who aren't part of the problem as a result.
- Reducing the amount of money that botting returns to a player by reducing the sale price of the higher DQ items to 1. This will make ANY botting, autoculty and other cheatbots, pointless in terms of making money; Jolly Jones quests would make a ton more. Autoculti remains a viable option for leveling up your character (autoculti for XP). This will solve the botting problem in my opinion.
- Turn all servers into PvP ones. Means open season on all lower equipped players. Means you'll likely lose a good chunk of players who are only interested in the PvE content and don't -want- to PvP, at all. I'm one of those myself. Not recommended.I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.
Ulsyr 103/103/104 BM. Working on the last R9 part (Axe).
Khelvan 103/103/103 LA Cler. LA? LA. Deal with it.
Evryn 103/102/101 Sagely Mystical Myst of Mystiness.
Gromth 102/102/102 Sage Panda.
StoneSnake - Snakeshop for everyone's common stones.0
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