Fixing the Economy

Aasaf - Sanctuary

_Grandpa - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think the real problem is the people who want to buy gold via AH. Why try to buy gold for 3,8 mil? This would set the selling price even higher. I can't decide for others how much they want to spend but it would be fun if everyone want to buy at 1 mil or lower.

b:chuckle we should make it a server event lol!

I don't know about other servers, but if you don't include merchants in this, it will never happen. Merchants always find ways to make money regardless of gold price, because cash shoppers and other players are willing to pay the price.

There are numerous players who will pay X+1~3m per item, rather than paying X, because buying gold is too complicated.

When people stop buying from shops completely, you might see a gold drop.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Aasaf - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't know about other servers, but if you don't include merchants in this, it will never happen. Merchants always find ways to make money regardless of gold price, because cash shoppers and other players are willing to pay the price.

There are numerous players who will pay X+1~3m per item, rather than paying X, because buying gold is too complicated.

When people stop buying from shops completely, you might see a gold drop.

And noone except the cash shoppers will be wearing:

R9
Refines higher than mirage refining allows them
Shards that are not sold by the jeweler NPC
Sky cover/cloud stir
Lvl7+ tomes

b:laugh Silly boys

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Aasaf - Sanctuary wrote: »

When people stop buying from shops completely, you might see a gold drop.

You do realize that the entire token economy relies on it being a reliable profit for buy-and-sell merchants? If those merchants go away, the only place you're gonna get your tokens from is buying packs and you know that's not very cost effective.

And what about the shops that monopolize high level Gems? Without them, the cheapest place to get the Gems will be from openings literally hundreds of packs per each gem. Good luck with that.

And let's talk about refines for a bit. Let's say that you need to get yourself a +12 refine. The cheapest +12 Orbs all come from people who get lucky with Dragon's Fires and want to turn their winning into an asset they will use. Just turns out that throwing more money at a lottery means you get more winnings. Well, without those merchants, you're stuck at waiting for those Ocean Orb sales, not to mention that you'll have to spend a few hours crafting the 1905 1* Orbs up to a +12.

The shops that you see function on a simple thing. They make their profit by offering you convenience. They offer the items that you want at a price that you're willing to pay. They offer the items that you want in a quantity that you specify at a price that you're willing to pay. They offer the items that you want when you want them at a that price you're willing to pay. It's on your rules that they are bending over.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Well said Olbaze

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The shops that you see function on a simple thing. They make their profit by offering you convenience. They offer the items that you want at a price that you're willing to pay. They offer the items that you want in a quantity that you specify at a price that you're willing to pay. They offer the items that you want when you want them at a that price you're willing to pay. It's on your rules that they are bending over.

If only more players thought like that.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Same in real life btw. Everyone complaining about food additives, GMOs, products that they believe are designed for short life time, paying for brand names and advertisements instead of quality etc etc etc.

You are the customer, you are the boss. How you spend your money is what controls what the producers will offer.

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Same in real life btw. Everyone complaining about food additives, GMOs, products that they believe are designed for short life time, paying for brand names and advertisements instead of quality etc etc etc.

You are the customer, you are the boss. How you spend your money is what controls what the producers will offer.

This is why I don't buy from the majority of "merchants" on RT, because most are ripoffs. This means my coins stay in my virtual pocket.

WannaBM - Archosaur

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is why I don't buy from the majority of "merchants" on RT, because most are ripoffs. This means my coins stay in my virtual pocket.

Those are probably not the "merchants". Merchants are usually people who try to make money by providing things that people want at the terms people want it it. Like Olbaze indicated.They sell the stuff that is on sale at 5% margin or so, or they sell it after the sale is over at 10-25% margin. They may buy and sell a product with 5% margin between the buy and sell.

Indeed half the catshops out there that i see make me wonder why they are there. They offer a few items for outragious prices. Or try to buy items for almost nothing. Some even try to scam with accidental zeros that are added or forgotten. They for sure wont do any bussiness ever, or maybe once a month when a drunk fool comes by. I too find those annoying because the clutter the city with so many useless catshops, making it harder to find what you need.

c44102

I think gold should get taken back down to 2 mil max on buying and 2.3 on selling as a set price no change or veration to the price as a set max. That you can go for quick sale or wait for your gold to sell. I know it would be a huge sock to the game but on the same note it will level stuff out. And getting 2x the money u put in to what u sell is still 100% fine. Getting 3x hurts the game a huge amount. Please get this fixed gold is over 3 mil each gold now. Things are being hurt in game very bad something needs to be changed and fixed. I hope this can be fixed soon before it hurts the game too much and more hard to get and do anything. Prices will level out if the gold is changed in the game it will take about a month to do maybe a lil more. Not too long

WannaBM - Archosaur

b:surrender

in 1970, A medium sized dutch house costed 50,000 euros *
in 1990, The same house costed 100.000 euros*
in 2007, it costed 220.000 euros.
In 2013, it was sold for 180.000 euros. This drop in price was both the cause and result of an economic crisis.

In 1995, a bottle of coca cola 1.5L costed 0.60 euro *
in 2014, it costs 1.40 euros.

5 years ago, gold in PWI was 100k coins
3 years ago, it was 800k coins
2 years ago, it was 1.2m
1 year ago, it was 2m
now it is 3m

*converted to that days currency

Both in real life and in game, people have been complaining about it all that time.
Inflation is a fact of life, while it is good to realise this well and take your actions to protect yourself against it, it is nothing unusual, nothing to worry about, no hurting the game, lets just stop QQing and proceed with life.

Longknife - Harshlands

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

b:surrender

in 1970, A medium sized dutch house costed 50,000 euros *
in 1990, The same house costed 100.000 euros*
in 2007, it costed 220.000 euros.

In 1995, a bottle of coca cola 1.5L costed 0.60 euro *
in 2014, it costs 1.40 euros.

5 years ago, gold in PWI was 100k coins
3 years ago, it was 800k coins
2 years ago, it was 1.2m
1 year ago, it was 2m
now it is 3m

*converted to that days currency

Both in real life and in game, people have been complaining about it all that time.
Inflation is a fact of life, while it is good to realise this well and take your actions to protect yourself against it, it is nothing unusual, nothing to worry about, no hurting the game, lets just stop QQing and proceed with life.

There's a difference between a steady, gradual raise in cost and hyperinflation:

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hyperinflation.asp



PWI servers are steadily gaining coin as everyone has their bots on collecting coin around the clock. Meanwhile, the number of new products that has actually been introduced into the game that are tradeable is minimal. It's basically C card packs and that's it. The result is everyone has money but nothing to spend it on. Likewise the result is that if you're not botting around the clock like others, you're falling behind and thus everything is insanely expensive for you.


You're comparing a home seeing a price increase of 120% over the course of 17 years to gold in PWI seeing a ~50% price increase in the matter of ~6 months. There's a clear and very obvious difference there.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Of course timescale is different in PWI and real life. 5 years is a life time in PWI. And while in real life inflation doubles the price of everything roughly each 15 years, in PWI that happens every 1,5 to 2 years. I like to look it like a PWI month being a real life year. This way both the inflation are comparable and the merchants profits on long term investments are comparable (15-20% a month)

Think about it. If you can put your money somewhere safe irl for 10% a year without having to spend the time and taking the risk of stock brokering, most of us would sign up for it right away, knowing we can very cheaply take care of our 501k. If someone is going to offer 10% in PWI per year, youd be **** to do that as you might have already quit playing by then. You dont expect to have died irl next year though.

There is absolutely no hyper inflation happening. In fact, it is going pretty steady to what i can see. A few months ago it was 2.7, a few months more back it was 2.5, as said, a year back it was 2.
The current 3-3.1 that we see now has been a quick jump up from the 2.7. That is normal, it always happens like this. There are some good sales and it goes up 10%. Then it stays there for a while and 2 months later the same thing happens again.

While the coins from a few botters have been added, coinsinks have also been added. Most notably the NW forge where all in all, almost half the price of the items made ends up being craft fee.

That said, surely i do believe on pve servers, the botting might produce somewhat more than the added coinsinks. But it aint gonna turn the world upside down. Espescially because hyperinflation is not really possible in the PWI economy. There is no FED who is going to print loads of money to keep paying the governments debts here. On the contrary, while inflation makes coins less worthy, you do not get more coins from botting or BH rewards. So converted to gold, less and less value is added to the economy and the effect of these added cions diminish over time.

michaelcolli

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

b:surrender

in 1970, A medium sized dutch house costed 50,000 euros *
in 1990, The same house costed 100.000 euros*
in 2007, it costed 220.000 euros.
In 2013, it was sold for 180.000 euros. This drop in price was both the cause and result of an economic crisis.

In 1995, a bottle of coca cola 1.5L costed 0.60 euro *
in 2014, it costs 1.40 euros.

5 years ago, gold in PWI was 100k coins
3 years ago, it was 800k coins
2 years ago, it was 1.2m
1 year ago, it was 2m
now it is 3m

*converted to that days currency

Both in real life and in game, people have been complaining about it all that time.
Inflation is a fact of life, while it is good to realise this well and take your actions to protect yourself against it, it is nothing unusual, nothing to worry about, no hurting the game, lets just stop QQing and proceed with life.

first of al in 1950 a dutch house was paid in gulden second a medium house costed about 25000 gulden wich would be something in the range of 10k euro

hoover69

i doubt auto culti ruin the economy, in my server gold prices and everything else was already super high even before auto culti was added to the game. what ruins the game is people's greed and laziness.

i only got one toon on auto culti, making what? a week 6 to 8 m and that goes into buying crabs and **** so i can heal when i do my quests and bh. i don't have high refinement or g16/r9 **** to solo/farm tt or anything else i tried and died not worth it.

and on top of that i can't be on the pc all the time trying to make coins just to get by so setiting 1 auto culti to make coins is all i can do and thats if i'm allowed too with all the pricks in this game going around looking for botters to mess with its hard to keep a good spot.

for that just delete the game if its bothering sooo many people and if you look at everyone thats ******** and whining they all got their ****. good armors and everything and are able to buy gold to get all their stuff and the rest got good/ great pc's to set up 20 or so bots to make alot of coins...not everyone can do that or efford to buy their way up or even have the time to spend countless hours to farm and farm tt or cashshop..

Longknife - Harshlands

hoover69 wrote: »

i doubt auto culti ruin the economy, in my server gold prices and everything else was already super high even before auto culti was added to the game. what ruins the game is people's greed and laziness.

No, what ruins the economy is a combination of the constant botting and the lack of tradeable resources. All of the newest updates have included non-tradeable resources while still providing new forms of income. Sure enough, the value of coin is dropping exponentially and it's becoming difficult for people who don't bot or play daily to actually keep up with the price hikes. All of this works to slow and discourage trade, which is a basic sign of an unhealthy economy.

jwillson123

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

b:surrender

in 1970, A medium sized dutch house costed 50,000 euros *
in 1990, The same house costed 100.000 euros*
in 2007, it costed 220.000 euros.
In 2013, it was sold for 180.000 euros. This drop in price was both the cause and result of an economic crisis.

In 1995, a bottle of coca cola 1.5L costed 0.60 euro *
in 2014, it costs 1.40 euros.

5 years ago, gold in PWI was 100k coins
3 years ago, it was 800k coins
2 years ago, it was 1.2m
1 year ago, it was 2m
now it is 3.9m

*converted to that days currency

Both in real life and in game, people have been complaining about it all that time.
Inflation is a fact of life, while it is good to realise this well and take your actions to protect yourself against it, it is nothing unusual, nothing to worry about, no hurting the game, lets just stop QQing and proceed with life.

There I fix it for you

WannaBM - Archosaur

You are not correcting anything. You are trying to promote your false agenda by adding data from your server to a dataset from mine.

prices have always been different from server to server. No doubt gold has always been more expensive on your server and if you'd have complete data, the picture would look similar to mine.

Dont be an idiot by bull****ting those with real arguments based on actual data. If you want to be taken serious, act serious please.

jwillson123

The point is that gold in most PVE server except maybe archosaur which was the cheapest gold is at over 3.8m+ and I predit my server will reach gold cap during next sale.


Just read this post is proof enough that auto cultivation is destroying the economy.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=21640421&postcount=63


If I am not right then please explain to me why pvp servers do not have this problem why do pvp servers where the most expensive servers and now they are way cheapest even more than archosaur which was the easiest server with the best market prices?

I May check server prices again.
I did not finish my post and was working on it I did not expect you to reply so fast. Yes I should have not mixed data but that is the way most servers will be at in a couple of months so it does not matter anymore because it is going to happen.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Of course it is going to happen. For archosaur i predict:

december 2014, gold 3.5m
december 2015, gold 5.5m (hopefully they fixed that stupid cap by then)
decemper 2016, gold 8m
etc.....

Sure some servers go a tiny bit faster than others.

jwillson123

I was at your server and competition seems so mediocre, prices seems fair and even the AH does look to be in total chaos either.
Yes I was very stupid comparing my server to yours b:shutup.




Here are current market prices

Raging Tides
http://gyazo.com/20a39210cebe4a2d36610be3b5199cfe
Harshlands
http://gyazo.com/1ff19b2c19e98425e68802ecca76947b
Dreamweaver
http://gyazo.com/1e5808c67bf73ab2095de191843129b9



Morai
http://gyazo.com/8cae64505177c5884139fd187bd89576


Archo
http://gyazo.com/49d4f328a86dce534dc2cc08c7ce2db8

Lost City
http://gyazo.com/627f8284ba8a13e46bd907a645f97cf8

Santuary
http://gyazo.com/dca576efd62693f34157dbfb0dc0e7af

Heaven Tears
http://gyazo.com/b152199d828bed4d66379c34414aa5c5

ps. Look at Santuary bids is so LOL b:laugh

Aubree - Dreamweaver

jwillson123 wrote: »

I was at your server and competition seems so mediocre, prices seems fair and even the AH does look to be in total chaos either.
Yes I was very stupid comparing my server to yours b:shutup.




Here are current market prices

Raging Tides
http://gyazo.com/20a39210cebe4a2d36610be3b5199cfe
Harshlands
http://gyazo.com/1ff19b2c19e98425e68802ecca76947b
Dreamweaver
http://gyazo.com/1e5808c67bf73ab2095de191843129b9



Morai
http://gyazo.com/8cae64505177c5884139fd187bd89576


Archo
http://gyazo.com/49d4f328a86dce534dc2cc08c7ce2db8

Lost City
http://gyazo.com/627f8284ba8a13e46bd907a645f97cf8

Santuary
http://gyazo.com/dca576efd62693f34157dbfb0dc0e7af

Heaven Tears
http://gyazo.com/b152199d828bed4d66379c34414aa5c5

ps. Look at Santuary bids is so LOL b:laugh

It's quite normal to be this early int he morning with no gold on sale. Take another screenie at around 6pm server time.

The PVP server seems to have a 1 month lag. In my purchase history on 7/8/14 I put in a buy price of 3.1m each. ON 7/18 my buy price jumped to 3.75m each. My purchase price last night was at 3.9m each.

What happened on the 18th? http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/pwi/news/detail/6004913-dragon-orb-promotion%21

And since that time 2g plat charms. This is as cheap as they ever will be. PWI manipulates the markets. They are as they should be in terms of what PWI wants. Adjust or quit.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

and imagine, us merchants on sanctuary still make money, something wrong with the game b:victory.

Xainou - Sanctuary

So you were that interesting person whispering random people. b:chuckle


Anyway, looking at the bids won't give you a good status. Afaik, guildies get their gold still, even with that AH.

Toriell - Sanctuary

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

and imagine, us merchants on sanctuary still make money, something wrong with the game b:victory.

Isn't it against the rules to sell gold anyway but through AH?

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Toriell - Sanctuary wrote: »

Isn't it against the rules to sell gold anyway but through AH?

only if it's done outside of the game.

Toriell - Sanctuary

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

only if it's done outside of the game.

Then if I am offered to buy gold via pm, I can do it and it will not be seen as offence? really? b:surrender

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Toriell - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then if I am offered to buy gold via pm, I can do it and it will not be seen as offence? really? b:surrender

As long as the transaction takes place inside the game and no items are offered/transferred externally, it's completely legit.

At least, the ToS does not state any limitations in that direction. As soon as the gods are offered outside of the game client, then it's a violation.

WannaBM - Archosaur

With buy gold outside of AH what is meant that the buyer tells the seller what boutique items he wants, then pays the gold price in coins for a ratio they agree to and gets the items.

It is already often done to prevent paying the 2% fee each and when its about large quantities. Sometimes people buy 500 gold for example from another player. These merchants are going to spend it on boutique items anyway, so its much more convenient to just do it without the AH.

Toriell - Sanctuary

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

As long as the transaction takes place inside the game and no items are offered/transferred externally, it's completely legit.

At least, the ToS does not state any limitations in that direction. As soon as the gods are offered outside of the game client, then it's a violation.

Ok then, thank you for clarification b:thanks
Edit: and WannaBM - Archosaur thank you too.

jwillson123

Buying without AH is not as convenient.
Last time i tried to buy the person told me to wait...
I waited 1 hour then pm the player and the player told me they were busy then I waited another hour and they were offline...
The only good way is that you have a relationship with the person and constantly buy from them than a random stranger in WC that may waste your time.